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DF Direct Weekly #182: Ghost of Yōtei, Horizon Zero Dawn Remaster, New PS5 Pro Titles Revealed

Kangx

Member from Brazile
Comparing the last of us 2 vs Alan wake 2 is the best example especially in performance mode. To me TLOU2 look far better because of huge difference in image quality, especially in motion. People need to reminded how bad Alan wake 2 look on the performance mode.

More advanced techniques that don't suit the hardware do more harm than help. Sony first party is more likely to stick to the more traditional technique like bake lighting, SSR cubemap etc and occasionally sprinkle in some low res ray tracing. I think this is ok, and the correct decision.

For the pro, I think they will start and should start implement RTGI, RTAO and more advanced RT reflections just like code master do on F1. This will help them keep up with these techniques and when ps6 come, they can go nut on it.
 

Bojji

Member
They did fart out that useless TLOU1 remake, with the exact same engine and technologies as the TLOU2 and labelled it a PS5 exclusive so I'd be cautious about ND, they're welcome to surprise me though.

I think they really are a mere shadow of their former self. They were really pushing boundaries in PS3 days and first half of PS4 gen.

TLoU2 was very good looking at launch but I never thought of it as something really mind blowing like Uncharted 2 in 2009 or U4 in 2016. Now there is nothing but stagnation, anyone remembers lazy Pro upgrade for U4? Same goes for lazy port of TLoU2 on PS5. Remake was ok but still nothing incredible, dated graphically in many aspects.

I hope they will surprise me! It was the best sony dev.





John Candy No GIF by Laff


ACS has confirmed RTGI and lots of objects can be destroyed. From tech perspective it may be better.
 
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FrankWza

Gold Member
This reaction combined with the threads that are coming up lately means the PS5 Pro is going to be awesome. I wonder who started writing the coil whine and overheating fiction...
 

Msamy

Member
I think they really are a mere shadow of their former self. They were really pushing boundaries in PS3 days and first half of PS4 gen.

TLoU2 was very good looking at launch but I never thought of it as something really mind blowing like Uncharted 2 in 2009 or U4 in 2016. Now there is nothing but stagnation, anyone remembers lazy Pro upgrade for U4? Same goes for lazy port of TLoU2 on PS5. Remake was ok but still nothing incredible, dated graphically in many aspects.

I hope they will surprise me! It was the best sony dev.



ACS has confirmed RTGI and lots of objects can be destroyed. From tech perspective it may be better.
Ghost 2 also have rtgi, even if digital Foundry can't confirm it I am 100% sure of rtgi implementation in ghost 2, also digital Foundry in the past said it that gow ragnorok ps5 version used ssr in water reflection but it ended using ray tracing reflection which confirmed by developers themselves, and also Alex is the only one said that ghost 2 don't use rtgi, the other guy said don't know what they use.
 
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Bojji

Member
Ghost 2 also have rtgi, even if digital Foundry can't confirm it I am 100% sure of rtgi implementation in ghost 2, also digital Foundry in the past said it that gow ragnorok ps5 version used ssr in water reflection but it ended using ray tracing reflection which confirmed by developers themselves, and also Alex is the only one said that ghost 2 don't use rtgi, the other guy said don't know what they use.

GOW doesn't use ray tracing, it has cube maps that are perspective correct in gfx mode. They tried to port that to DXR before launch:

MW9I16L.jpeg


Or at least it can't be called ray tracing reflections in traditional sense.

As for lighting in GoY, I have no idea but nothing is confirmed.
 

sachos

Member
One thing i agree with is that i would like to start seeing more RTGI on Sony's games. Horizon Remaster would have been amazing for it. Oliver touched upon that and GoY, looking at some scenes like the bar scene to see if it was RTGI or not. There is some cool bounce lighting but im not sure if it is RTGI.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Pretty much any thread to do with DF and Alex goes exactly the same way nowadays. Same pictures of Alex, same insults. It's all rather dull

I agree with your post though. Naughty Dogs lack of presence is really felt in terms of a big blockbuster to show what the hardware can do with the right talent and budget...just a few more years I guess lol

Has any studio in the realm of Naughty Dog released a game in 2020 or later and then released another full AAA game since?

For some reason Naughty Dog gets more hate and more attention than almost any other studio.

Ghost of Tsushima came out just after TLOUP2 and while Ghost of Yotei will probably come out sooner than any Naughty Dog content, we also know that they're working on multiple games.

Has Cyberpunk come out with another big AAA game since their release in November 2020 after TLOU2? No, they only came out with a DLC.

Insomniac is often who Naughty Dog gets compared to, but Spider-Man came out in 2018 , more than two years before TLOU2, and Miles Morales was an asset clone of Spider-Man. Spider-Man 2 came out in 2023, 5 years later (and again reused a lot of assets), and I guess you can count Rift Apart, though that was a pretty minor project for a AAA studio and against reused assets from Ratchet 2016.

What other studios are we talking about?
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
ACS has confirmed RTGI and lots of objects can be destroyed. From tech perspective it may be better.

I'm all for cutting edge tech being used but ultimately it all comes down to results and not buzzwords. How successful is the tech application in delivering impressive visuals? For example, I was more impressed with FF16 shadow rendering system than I was with SM/Ratchet RT shadows on PC. Now, if Ubisoft actually delivers on what I'm seeing in this video, this will be an interesting comparison between Ghosts and Yotei in 2025:

 

midnightAI

Member
I think they really are a mere shadow of their former self. They were really pushing boundaries in PS3 days and first half of PS4 gen.
Judge them when they release their next full game, TLoU2 pushed loads of tech at the end of last gen, it's still one of the best looking games out there even on the PS4
 

JaksGhost

Member
Not clear yet on how they've improved their GI system. As I said in graphics thread GoT actually used real-time global illumination techniques but they were so primitive and yielded messy results even by last gen standards. The lighting (occlusion, GI) in Yotei are a generational leap over Tsushima.



Artistically? Sure. Technically? Nope.






Agree 100%. Not a fan of attacking Alex as a person and his sexuality/lifestyle affiliation.

Oh don't be a bunch of hyprocites now when this forum is full of people attacking other's sexuality/lifestyle affiliation.
 

Bojji

Member
I'm all for cutting edge tech being used but ultimately it all comes down to results and not buzzwords. How successful is the tech application in delivering impressive visuals? For example, I was more impressed with FF16 shadow rendering system than I was with SM/Ratchet RT shadows on PC. Now, if Ubisoft actually delivers on what I'm seeing in this video, this will be an interesting comparison between Ghosts and Yotei in 2025:



You are right.

For sure their engine is more modern and capable but end result will show us which game looks better in the end.

For example with forced RT AC Shadows will most likely be 30fps on PS5/SX, that's automatic win for 60FPS GoY. Image quality of shadows will most likely also be questionable on standard consoles so another win for game with less advanced features that still looks good.

DF counted ~800p in ACS on Pro in 60fps, this game is REALLY HEAVY.
 
Judge them when they release their next full game, TLoU2 pushed loads of tech at the end of last gen, it's still one of the best looking games out there even on the PS4
Yeah Richard was surprised how much better it looked on the Pro I can't imagine what their next game will look like they can take as much time as they want
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
Most funny fragment when Alex was concerned Sony took precious Nixxies time to do remaster of Horizon1 instead of not that precious Guerilla time :messenger_grinning_squinting:
 
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Kangx

Member from Brazile
I find it was funny that DF got overhyped on Alan wake 2 and said it was the the best looking game even on consoles. Absolutely fucking not, on pc definitely.

On consoles maybe take a still shot of the 30fps mode, but we play games in motion and Alan 30fps look extra soft, still suffer of shimmering and image crawling on trees and fences, it also lack motion clarity compare to 60fps mode. The 60fps mode don't worth even mentioning.

To me, Demon Souls 2 is still the best looking games on consoles. Look close to native 4k at 60fps with so much details. The image quality and clarity put many modern games to shame. This should be what most developers strive for on consoles, not some bushit like wukong, both starwars games, Alan Wake and many more.

When a game launch with pc concurrently, the consoles ports will suffer one way or another. You can't brute force your way like pc with these new techniques. I understand most of the devs port their new techs from pc and they don't have time to spend on developing a different tech that tailor to consoles. But this is the reality for most third parties dev and it suck for people with base consoles.
 
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Msamy

Member
GOW doesn't use ray tracing, it has cube maps that are perspective correct in gfx mode. They tried to port that to DXR before launch:

MW9I16L.jpeg


Or at least it can't be called ray tracing reflections in traditional sense.

As for lighting in GoY, I have no idea but nothing is confirmed.
NO I am not talking about this interview I remember they confirmed ray tracing for water in one of gdc shows about ragnorok tech also it wasn't tradional rt but still hardware rt
 
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Beautiful young lady with makeup vs some rough looking slapper?
Just on the two GIFs posted? Honestly AC looks more natural and ”realistic” than Ghost here. Ghost shot is ofc showing off some great self shadowing, but still somehow looks quite "Gamey”. One of the key positives of well implemented RTGI is it immediately offsets some of that "Gamey" look. See Witcher 3, DD for example.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Alex is such a bitch. I'm actually tired of him now at this point. It's weird how they keep over analyzing PlayStation titles when they have a dirth of Xbox games that they could also be giving coverage too yet they don't. Xbox had a whole showcase this summer and they just glossed over the footage with 1 podcast yet the Pro announcement set them up with a 2 hour podcast of rambling and clips to flood their channel with traffic.

Don’t be weird. Why would they be analyzing Xbox games when we just had a PlayStation showcase?

The launch of a new Pro console is a major event, and deserves significantly more coverage than just any showcase.

Certain people: "Publishers need to stop chasing great graphics. Give us good gameplay."

Also certain people: "Ghost of Yotei isn't a generational graphical leap over Ghost of Tsushima that released just 4 years ago."

I certainly don’t get any claims that GoY is visually unimpressive. I thought the trailer looked very stunning indeed.
 

Vick

Member
It's disappointing to see people mock others for simply posting an opinion. Alex is a tool and im all for mocking him when he makes a fool of himself like he did last week, but what exactly did he say here thats wrong? or factually incorrect? It's clear there are no RT reflections, shadows or GI. It's true that aside from draw distance, the game looks virtually identical. He's not the only one saying that the game looks underwhelming. So why are we posting pics of him in a skirt?
I fully agree with the rest of your post.

But as for the skirt photo, the simple act of reading page 1 should make abundantly clear what led to it.

This kind of "Alex defense force" is as hilarious as it is embarrassing honestly, particularly when performed by even more biased clowns than he is considering how only a blind hardcore fanboy breathing Sony™ hatred could possibly see calling out such an unprofessional figure as unfair or anything of the sort.

Fool's a literal joke and not because he's in a skirt, that was just an easy reponse to kevboard kevboard insult, but because of countless reasons only worse warriors than him could possibly chose to ignore for the last half of a decade.

He should stick to what he's good at, great even, discussing PC, instead of embarrassing himself not only often on DF but especially on Beyond 3D/Purple Forums and Discords like the actual worst Twitter warrior.

Then again, since it all started from this, maybe you and people like Senua Senua enjoy this kind of.. whatever the fuck this is, constantly reoccurring in your technical videos:



But I certainly won't apologize for finding it annoying.

That's all, now keep going with this paladin of justice act or whatever that was.

The best thing is that many of the posters that shit on Alex and post his pictures wearing dress are the same ones defending obvious pandering to woke/alphabet mafia made by Sony.
Well, since I've posted the skirt photo, you now post a single message of my 3,092 where I ever defended pandering to woke/alphabet by Sony.

A single one. Unless you regard fighting actual retardation using scanning data and facts on the Aloy argument in an attempt to lessen the embarrassment some users love to bring to this place by calling things like this as, verbatim, "Fat cow".

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As "defending obvious pandering to woke/alphabet mafia made by Sony".. obviously.

They did fart out that useless TLOU1 remake, with the exact same engine and technologies as the TLOU2 and labelled it a PS5 exclusive so I'd be cautious about ND, they're welcome to surprise me though.
Eh, useless now, I find it to possibly be the most consistent PS5 game along with Demon's Souls. Their Engine clearly capped already with Part II, doesn't mean the Remake didn't offer a visual experience far ahead the vast majority of games while running at rock solid performance at good IQ, with no visuals/settings compromises, in all its modes. I loved it personally, might be my single favorite thing on PS5.. spent hundreds of hours on it.

I agree on the engine, ND games all look very similar even technically (kinda, PS5 allowed them to have PCSS shadows for the entire game in Part I) since Uncharted 4, but as said many times:

I liked this post but only based on hopes and dreams.

I wish I could share your optimism about the bolded, and when you wish you had @SlimySnake optimism you know something's fucking wrong.

In Part I they finally added PCSS-like shadows, and better shadows were the only noticeable visual element in need for a serious upgrade.
They also used a really, really good DoF in Part I.. I think they simply took advantage of PS5 extra power to fix their weaknesses and are now satisfied about how their games can look and run, also at 60fps.
I mean Druckmann literally just said about Part I "At times I'm thinking -I can't believe what I'm playing-".. just shut the fuck up Neil, have you missed UE5 on PS5?

And then there's the major thing: Naughty Dog engine has been just ported to PC after more than a decade. And we know it must have been a nightmare (partially confirmed by the consistent delay of the Legacy of Thieves collection), I can easily see them keep using it for the rest of the Gen. Especially considering the need for PC ports this time which is something they'll 100% keep in mind when designing new games.

A new Engine made specifically for the PS5 using "fancy tech like Lumens, nanite and ray tracing", later to be ported all over again on PC? I just don't see it at all.
And that's the same for every single Sony First Party with engines just landed on PC.
That's the main reason I haven't been over the moon about all this PC support, not because of the retarded "You just don't want others to enjoy the toys you enjoy" which if anything has been a blessing to read less salty trolling and constant downplaying of masterpieces by sad individuals, but because Sony focus on PC instead of a single, custom machine with single specs would have obviously led to this scenario.

I don't know, I hope I'm wrong of course. But not a single PS5 "exclusive" managed to impress me as much as launch or close to launch PS4 exclusives. Those were the best available at the time and then some, and that's not the case this time because we know more can be achieved on Cerny's machine.

I just don't logically see them making any change in this regard.
And why would they? What would a PS5-level RT even bring to their games? They've worked and improved on their baked GI since 2007, they already have a phenomenal and unmatched dynamic GI solution, they use PCSS shadows, they have a flawless AO, they have a phenomal and unmatched dynamic capsule AO for characters and proxity occlusion, and their Engine as is allows them to achieve native resolutions (4K/1440p) and rock solid performance, which certainly wouldn't happen using RT.

I mean.. "It's the same Engine", yeah, but this is what said Engine was doing on 2013 hardware..

8ryqoh5.gif


zA00ASR.gif






How many games even do this today on a 4090, let alone on a PS5?

What I think could truly benefit them would be implementing a Nanite-like tech allowing the use of countless polygons, and I really wish they would, and RT reflections to spare the time they need to craft their cubemaps/SSR combination. But would completely revamp their Engine to make use of PS5 capabilities even make sense, considering they now have to make sure their games run well on PC and they barely do as they are?

TLoU2 was very good looking at launch but I never thought of it as something really mind blowing like Uncharted 2 in 2009 or U4 in 2016.
Only at launch, clearly.. PS4 Pro gameplay footage:









m6RhqF4.png


JQVNPzs.png


aVRdfKc.png


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K7hiIuC.png


x7ywkGk.png


gTFIfY6.png


Gb5HTKS.png
 
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Kangx

Member from Brazile
I feel like ranting after watching some of the takes and especially on the assassin creed segment. I find it freaking ironic that they ask how will it run on the base consoles with RTGI, and a new cutting edge technique like virtualize Nanite.

Of course it will run like shit Alex, and the image quality will be a blurry mess too. It is an open world game with modern lighting tech and so many npc. We already have so many examples of this, and you already know the answer. Even with RTGI alone, it can cripple the base consoles. And Here we are not even factor in the new tech virtualize Nanite.

I feel like they are so disconnect with the average gamers especially consoles players. Stop champion for new tech and play down on old tech if the hardware can't handle it. It does not matter how advance these new techs on pc are, the base consoles just can't handle it.

I am speaking specifically about consoles. For a few PCMR and Alex, don't mind this because this does not effect you one bit. In fact, the more tech the better because the freaking 5000 series will come out soon will handle these like ease. Ok end of rant.
 
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Caio

Member
Dude I can't.. trying to listen to what they say on Horizon but there's always that weird as shit psycho/down syndrome laugh in the background coming out of the blue..

GIF by Walt Disney Studios
I couldn’t decide whether to laugh or cry when I heard those awful noises/satanic giggles on the verge of a full-blown meltdown, right before they answered each other’s bizarre questions.
These people are beyond embarrassing, but the real cringe-worthy part? That I’m actually sitting here, willingly watching their content !
 
I guess most people did not watch the PS5 pro price reaction video. Where you hear constantly bugagas stupid laugh in the background.(Meanwhile jerking off over his more expensive 4099 is completely okay🤷🤔)
 

Caio

Member
I guess most people did not watch the PS5 pro price reaction video. Where you hear constantly bugagas stupid laugh in the background.(Meanwhile jerking off over his more expensive 4099 is completely okay🤷🤔)
Want me to be honest? I’m jealous that you nailed the concept with more punch and flair. The obsession these people have with PC graphics cards that cost the same as three PS5 Pro is only rivaled by their burning desire to stroke their egos (and something else) while drooling over their precious benchmark scores...:messenger_medmask:
 
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midnightAI

Member
they are definitely not the only one, great art design can only bring you that far in a fidelity race.
But what is wrong with the graphic fidelity of GoY?

The main issue with GoT was that some of the textures weren't the greatest and some of the scenery was quite low poly, from what little we have seen of GoY those two issues have been fixed, along with massively improved draw distance (standing on a mountain in GoT brought to light the cut off point with lack of scenery or very low poly LOD)

I can tell now, with the stuff we have seen, this game is a stunner and it isn't just art direction (but of course that to is amazing)
 

GymWolf

Member
But what is wrong with the graphic fidelity of GoY?

The main issue with GoT was that some of the textures weren't the greatest and some of the scenery was quite low poly, from what little we have seen of GoY those two issues have been fixed, along with massively improved draw distance (standing on a mountain in GoT brought to light the cut off point with lack of scenery or very low poly LOD)

I can tell now, with the stuff we have seen, this game is a stunner and it isn't just art direction (but of course that to is amazing)
Some people wanted higher fidelity, if you are ok with how the game look, good for you, but people wanted to see a bigger jump.

The Art style of course is great, but it was already great in tsushi1, so what people wanted to see was higher fidelity to complement the great artstyle.
 
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FewRope

Member
You are right.

For sure their engine is more modern and capable but end result will show us which game looks better in the end.

For example with forced RT AC Shadows will most likely be 30fps on PS5/SX, that's automatic win for 60FPS GoY. Image quality of shadows will most likely also be questionable on standard consoles so another win for game with less advanced features that still looks good.

DF counted ~800p in ACS on Pro in 60fps, this game is REALLY HEAVY.
800p on Pro for 60 FPS? Consoles are completely cooked
 
Tshushima was always about been a painting in motion. Yotei will be about been a bigger painting in motion.

But the tech behind is not modern and is basically been done on Switch / gamecube hardware by Nintendo.
 

midnightAI

Member
Some people wanted higher fidelity, if you are ok with how the game look, good for you, but people wanted to see a bigger jump.

The Art style of course is great, but it was already great in tsushi1, so what people wanted to see was higher fidelity to complement the great artstyle.
But again, higher fidelity in what way? It has improved draw distance, improved geometry, improved foliage, improved lighting, improved skyboxes (nighttime especially), higher resolution (especially compared to PS4 GoT), the characters models seem improved, did I mention improved draw distance (seriously, the sense of scale in some of those shots is insane). I'm sure there are a great number of other improvements but it's hard to say without seeing more footage and I'm only saying what I see, I'm sure others can pick up on more. This is all on base PS5 by the way, not Pro.

What people are really saying is, the sequel to Ghost of Tsushima looks like a sequel to Ghost of Tsushima, well, you don't say
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
Not at all it might have "better" lighting but I can already tell Ghost animations are much better. I love the look of Shadows though it's definitely doing some things graphically that speak to me.

TBH Ubisoft have sucker punched Ghost in terms of lighting, physics and object detail,



The animation needs polishing, but the stuff shown is work in progress footage after all. I'm looking forward to playing it on Ubisoft+.
 
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EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
If no one told you which games were which, would you notice the difference?


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Agreed.

I don't think Yotei looks bad, but nothing about it makes me feel like its a current gen sequel, it feels like the God Of War 2018 to Ragnarok type of move

AC Valhalla to AC Shadows very much feels like a current gen jump in regards to everything that is being done with that engine, from the real time lighting, Ray Traced Global Illumination, destructible objects, seasonal weather system etc

Both look great and are day 1s for me, but Yotei if you told me was running on PS4 or will be released on PS4 later lol I would not be shocked. I first thought it was some DLC type thing and even thought it was cross gen when it was first revealed as to explain why it looked so much like the last game.


Not a bad thing btw, the game looks good, but just surprised they didn't do a huge generational jump and maybe that has to do with how long development takes. This also likely has to do with that to Ubisoft, Anvil Engine is an investment for many titles, like the next AC, where Ghost isn't really that type of series to have another team making it later to have the engine used that way.
 
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GymWolf

Member
But again, higher fidelity in what way? It has improved draw distance, improved geometry, improved foliage, improved lighting, improved skyboxes (nighttime especially), higher resolution (especially compared to PS4 GoT), the characters models seem improved, did I mention improved draw distance (seriously, the sense of scale in some of those shots is insane). I'm sure there are a great number of other improvements but it's hard to say without seeing more footage and I'm only saying what I see, I'm sure others can pick up on more. This is all on base PS5 by the way, not Pro.

What people are really saying is, the sequel to Ghost of Tsushima looks like a sequel to Ghost of Tsushima, well, you don't say
They didn't improved enough if people are calling the game tsushima 1,5, it is that simple dude.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
It really is Spiderman 2 all over again. A game nobody imagined wouldn't be next gen as fuck having been made for PS5, that turns out to be half the improvement we expected. Sums up Sony this gen perfectly.

True, but with the extra time to even do some new engine, how would that be better?

We have gamers complaining on game releases already, to even do some big new engine, folks would just complain when this is a 2027 cross gen PS6 title lol

So many Sony had the right call to have some of those teams use the same engine and focus on making a sequel vs new engine, generational jump etc Maybe that is something they are saving for a select number of teams for late gen or something.
 

Three

Member
Basically, they are eluding that Ghosts is a PS4 game in look. The scale looks much bigger than the original but I can see what they are saying to a degree.
Like clockwork they plant some negative seed. Yet a game engine straight from 2011 is 30fps because it's so advanced to them.
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
I find it was funny that DF got overhyped on Alan wake 2 and said it was the the best looking game even on consoles. Absolutely fucking not, on pc definitely.
I've been playing AW2 (PC) recently and it's been a pretty dissapointing ride so far. Mainly when comparing it to original game - it feels like a smaller, less ambitious take on the same genre (with a big difficulty spike for no real reason). Sort of reminiscent of another 'next-gen only' sequel that came out recently. Anyway, there's something about visual composition that just makes the whole thing look - small, even claustrophobic - it reminds me of The Order 1866 in that respect - where even being outdoors felt like characters are just on a stage in some theatre. Complete opposite to original game that felt way more open than it actually was.

Overall fidelity is still nice enough (especially characters are a big step up for a Remedy title) - but given the steep cost (a 4080 can't maintain 60 in any path-tracing mode in this game unless I drop below 1080p), trade-off is somewhat debatable. It runs much better without RT but the screen space artifacts annoy me to the point I am more willing to trade resolution/framerate off.
 

Luipadre

Gold Member
It doesnt look bad but its the art direction doing the heavy lifting rather than anything graphically impressive from a tech standpoint
Id rather take a game with decent tech and exceptional art direction like ghost than a super high tech game with dull art and overall look
 

midnightAI

Member
They didn't improved enough if people are calling the game tsushima 1,5, it is that simple dude.
Is it though? so the stuff I mentioned is irrelevant? we had people complaining about downgrades on games that werent (puddlegate anyone), we also have people in this very thread that say Zero Dawn remaster isnt much of an upgrade (or even a downgrade) and posting comparison between prerendered and in game, people go out of their way to put down games or games on specific platforms due to their agendas. I actually think many cant look past the games art style and because the art style is the same the game isn't much of an upgrade.

I just think many are going to eat crow when we see proper (uncompressed) screenshots comparing the two
 

GymWolf

Member
Is it though? so the stuff I mentioned is irrelevant? we had people complaining about downgrades on games that werent (puddlegate anyone), we also have people in this very thread that say Zero Dawn remaster isnt much of an upgrade (or even a downgrade) and posting comparison between prerendered and in game, people go out of their way to put down games or games on specific platforms due to their agendas. I actually think many cant look past the games art style and because the art style is the same the game isn't much of an upgrade.

I just think many are going to eat crow when we see proper (uncompressed) screenshots comparing the two
Dude i fucking hope to eat 100 crows.

There is always a chance of yt compression eating all the details but you can see the difference in reaction between a yt wukong trailer and a tsushi2 youtube trailer even if the source is the same...
 
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