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Digital Foundry Direct: Weekly #190: PSSR Problems but... Silent Hill 2 Pro Fixed? AC Syndicate 60FPS Tested!
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Senua
Gold Member
He hate Sony. He bad man. He will be punish.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Making stuff up?These are his exact words:
Why you are making stuff up?
Those are his exact words.
And it's instantly noticeable even on a 4K screen
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SweetTooth
Gold Member
He has already been punished ... three times
1998 .. Dreamcast death of an overrated system.
He sought Microsoft for redemption arc, to be humbled for 23 years by Sony.
2019.. 9TF PS5 delimma and being schooled by real hardware engineers who knew what are they talking about unlike him and his beloved girlfriend or friend or whatever in Alex
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Senua
Gold Member
That just two time. Where am three time? You are waste time. You ugg uggHe has already been punished ... three times
1998 .. Dreamcast death of an overrated system.
He sought Microsoft for redemption arc, to be humbled for 23 years by Sony.
2019.. 9TF PS5 delimma and being schooled by real hardware engineers who knew what are they talking about unlike him and his beloved girlfriend or friend or whatever in Alex
SweetTooth
Gold Member
Is that suppose to rhythm? Or some cryptic s** from silent hill !
Senua
Gold Member
It's yiddish
SweetTooth
Gold Member
I had to google that
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So watching this, they finally tested star wars outlaws and confirmed it too has the same fizzle on rt objects.
They did bring up Spiderman 2 and Ratchet which also have RTAO and RT reflections but dont have the same shimmering we see in jedi, aw2, dragon dogma, outlaws, sh2 and dragon age. What they dont realize is that the RTAO in spiderman 2 and ratchet is disabled in the performance mode which uses PSSR. You can only toggle it in fidelity mode.
Same goes for the enhanced rt reflections which are only available in the fidelity mode which does not use PSSR. The regular RT reflections in spiderman 2 are not as intensive as stuff we've seen in callisto, star wars and aw2 where they apply to non-reflective surfaces almost making it look like rtgi since they end up bouncing lights even off of wooden cabin walls in AW2 and cement walls in callisto.
I think insomniac saw the same behavior and decided to keep those out. GG also did not use PSSR in horizon fw, which is arguably the most next gen game by sony first party right now despite being cross gen. The level of detail especially in terms of foliage in HFW is way ahead of games like demon souls, ratchet, spiderman 2 and tlou games. It broke their checkerboard system back at launch simply because it couldnt handle the insane amount of foliage they were pushing in the ps5 version.
Oliver also said that in terms of just things on screen at once, these games are well ahead of games like tlou2 which to be fair is a last gen game. And I think people who have been dismissing games like AW2, Jedi surivor, outlaws, and sh2 should take PSSR struggling to resolve all this detail as proof that they were indeed pushing a lot more detail than last gen games.
They did bring up Spiderman 2 and Ratchet which also have RTAO and RT reflections but dont have the same shimmering we see in jedi, aw2, dragon dogma, outlaws, sh2 and dragon age. What they dont realize is that the RTAO in spiderman 2 and ratchet is disabled in the performance mode which uses PSSR. You can only toggle it in fidelity mode.
Same goes for the enhanced rt reflections which are only available in the fidelity mode which does not use PSSR. The regular RT reflections in spiderman 2 are not as intensive as stuff we've seen in callisto, star wars and aw2 where they apply to non-reflective surfaces almost making it look like rtgi since they end up bouncing lights even off of wooden cabin walls in AW2 and cement walls in callisto.
I think insomniac saw the same behavior and decided to keep those out. GG also did not use PSSR in horizon fw, which is arguably the most next gen game by sony first party right now despite being cross gen. The level of detail especially in terms of foliage in HFW is way ahead of games like demon souls, ratchet, spiderman 2 and tlou games. It broke their checkerboard system back at launch simply because it couldnt handle the insane amount of foliage they were pushing in the ps5 version.
Oliver also said that in terms of just things on screen at once, these games are well ahead of games like tlou2 which to be fair is a last gen game. And I think people who have been dismissing games like AW2, Jedi surivor, outlaws, and sh2 should take PSSR struggling to resolve all this detail as proof that they were indeed pushing a lot more detail than last gen games.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
JimboJones
Member
More like PROlapse amiritePROpaganda™
FrankWza
Gold Member
CloudShiner
Member
Why the fuck are Leadbetter's teeth so yellow? Can't the dude get himself to a dental hygienist in-between the Sony bashing? Or even just buy a whitening toothpaste for god's sake. May have to put my TV into grayscale to watch DF if it carries on because it's fucking gross especially with the close-ups of them due to all the inane laughing they do at any comment under the sun. 
kevboard
Member
that's a 30fps video however. a 60fps video would be great.
the best way to demonstrate stuff like that in general would be standing still and spinning the camera at a more or less steady rate.
youtube's compression at 1080p 30fps adds a ton of blur in motion
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
kevboard
adamsapple
Took the trouble to make some quick offscreen vids.
It's that easy to do and it shows that stutter on Portal is as good as gone (they even have much better equioment than me and my Samsung S24).
DF danced around the answer on if the stutter was improved:
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Yeah, I'm stuck with my Samsung S24, so I won't get it better than this, unfortunately.
But at 60fps it's much smoother than the vids. Richard should've known straight away, you don't even need to spend hours on a game to notice it.
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kevboard
Member
huh? I have a 4yo Samsung that can record 1440p 240fps
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Correction, S23.
Yeah, just checked and it should be able to record in 4K/60.
Maybe I didn't bother changing some settings, or maybe I messed up the upload to YT.
Edit:
Lol I only just now realized how to set the recording to 4K/60.
Will reupload some vids tomorrow after work.
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bundylove
Member
Why the fuck are Leadbetter's teeth so yellow? Can't the dude get himself to a dental hygienist in-between the Sony bashing? Or even just buy a whitening toothpaste for god's sake. May have to put my TV into grayscale to watch DF if it carries on because it's fucking gross especially with the close-ups of them due to all the inane laughing they do at any comment under the sun.
mrqs
Member
Why the fuck are Leadbetter's teeth so yellow? Can't the dude get himself to a dental hygienist in-between the Sony bashing? Or even just buy a whitening toothpaste for god's sake. May have to put my TV into grayscale to watch DF if it carries on because it's fucking gross especially with the close-ups of them due to all the inane laughing they do at any comment under the sun.
Congratulations, you're experiencing different cultures. Most people didn't care that much about that not too long ago. If he's fine with it, who cares. He's beautiful as is.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Silent Hill's update patch is just removing PSSR and reverting back to the original reconstruction the game shipped with.
so .. uh .. debatable maybe?
sachos
Member
Wtf is happening with that SH2 patch... they went back to TSR but the GI looks much worse now in performance mode, there is almost no shading... also how come its running basically at the same Perf of the base PS5 when they are almost the same resolution and both using TSR, where is the ~30-45% GPU boost at???
There is more going on here than meets the eye i think.
There is more going on here than meets the eye i think.
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Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Both PlayStation is running at higher res. Evident at 1:00. Look at the texture on the hat. It appears the pro just running the ps5 version with just higher frame rate.
Interesting. You are right. The texture coming in and out.That's just an odd texture difference, the resolution otherwise seems about the same.
But other places show the difference other way. You can see an example of that in this, note the back of Evie's jacket (especially the left shoulder) looks blurrier / soupier on PS5 Pro's side and also the building facade and the window area looks more aliased, while it's smoother on the SX side.
Some users in the AC Syndicate patch topic who have both versions have said the SX version looks sharper to them as well.
Edit, so it a back compack and not native according to richard.
We are not seeing 30 to 35 percent on boost mode here? Something off?
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willothedog
Member
kevboard
Member
Per your request, reuploaded some HFW, Blops 6 and GT7 footage on Portal, captured offscreen at 4K/60:
again, it would be easer to look for stutters if it was just you standing still and spinning the camera around for a few seconds,
but I still spotted stutters I think.
in the GT7 video at around 56sec as you turn the corner it judders for a frame roughly when the in-game timer hits 53.8XX. best spotted when looking at the motion of the white fence in the center-right of the screen.
in the Horizon video, at around 1:11 shortly before you stop spinning there are tons of dropped frames. over the span of a few seconds, there are periods where every 4th frame is dropped.
basically
with some instances where every 3rd frame is dropped for a second or so.the call of duty clip is hard to judge due to motion blur and generally erratic camera motion. I think I still saw a stutter at around the 10 second mark as you sprint forward, but the weird thing here is that only the top right portion of the image stops for a frame or so. but again, hard to actually say due to the constant erratic motion and motion blur.
to really test this you basically need a game and/or spot in a game where you can guarantee a 100% locked 60fps on the console side. and then spin the camera around in a circle at a steady, decently high speed for a few seconds.
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intbal
Member
When did Private Gomer Pyle join DF
You're mistaken.
This is actually Grossberger from the movie Stir Crazy.
It's an understandable error. He's lost a tiny bit of weight since his Hollywood days.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
I did in Horizon, but nobody does that realistically.
You managed to give a better answer than Richard.in the GT7 video at around 56sec as you turn the corner it judders for a frame roughly when the in-game timer hits 53.8XX. best spotted when looking at the motion of the white fence in the center-right of the screen.
in the Horizon video, at around 1:11 shortly before you stop spinning there are tons of dropped frames. over the span of a few seconds, there are periods where every 4th frame is dropped.
basically
the call of duty clip is hard to judge due to motion blur and generally erratic camera motion. I think I still saw a stutter at around the 10 second mark as you sprint forward, but the weird thing here is that only the top right portion of the image stops for a frame or so. but again, hard to actually say due to the constant erratic motion and motion blur.
to really test this you basically need a game and/or spot in a game where you can guarantee a 100% locked 60fps on the console side. and then spin the camera around in a circle at a steady, decently high speed for a few seconds.
And while I acknowledged that it isn't 100% perfect, the experience is smooth, so the frames you counted practically go unnoticed.
It's kinda like 400x zoom to find a jaggie.
Edit:
Btw, for Horizon FW, for example, framedrops happen on PS5 (Pro) itself, so it might not even happen due to Remote Play, like in this video at 06:52:
So, most likely, framedrops happen on the console and are then displayed on Portal, which would mean that Portal isn't the issue and performance can't get better than this as it's limited by the PS5 console itself.
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Bojji
Member
AC Syndicate mini analysis
- PS5/PS5 Pro/SX comparison
- OG PS5 is the least performant of the 3, drops most frames in cut-scenes. PS5 Pro and SX trade blows, in some scenes PS5 Pro is faster, in some SX runs faster.
- In the prologue chapter game play, PS5 drops the most frames then PS5 Pro and SX being the smoothest
- Series S is 'very similar' to SX, and has slightly less drops in cut-scenes compared to SX
- But it also runs a lower resolution and aliasing is visible
- They only counted PS5's pixels, looks native 4K but IQ looks soft
Quoting this again. There is DL2 patch analysis and it really makes you think if devs have right priorities
They increased some settings in performance mode on Pro (It's hard to see, really) but performance is now worse than on Series X:
AW_CL
Member
These ugly little rats, with their unbearable and constant giggling, how can anyone endure it? They are so irritating and obnoxious.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Quoting this again. There is DL2 patch analysis and it really makes you think if devs have right priorities
They increased some settings in performance mode on Pro (It's hard to see, really) but performance is now worse than on Series X:
SX is running up to 14~15fps faster than the PS5 Pro, come on now devs, lol.
Mr Moose
Member
Quoting this again. There is DL2 patch analysis and it really makes you think if devs have right priorities
They increased some settings in performance mode on Pro (It's hard to see, really) but performance is now worse than on Series X:
This might be accurate, don't know, but I would wait for someone else to do testing, not some rando with TRDROP.
saintjules
Gold Member
Vick
Member
Unlike Syndicate, I feel DL2 difference is justified and preferable even by a quick glance at two pictures.
Look at the trees shading difference in the images above, there's many additional shadows/occlusion on Pro and that's, again, only by a quick glance at two images.
As long as it's locked 60fps I can't think of a single person on the planet who wouldn't take major visual advantages over 80fps vs 90fps in 120hz modes.
Look at the trees shading difference in the images above, there's many additional shadows/occlusion on Pro and that's, again, only by a quick glance at two images.
As long as it's locked 60fps I can't think of a single person on the planet who wouldn't take major visual advantages over 80fps vs 90fps in 120hz modes.
Senua
Gold Member
Point on the doll where DF touched you
Mr Moose
Member
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Vick
Member
You are right, had no idea.
Can't watch the video right now, but what was added in terms of settings on Pro over the previous, already heavier, PS5 version?
Mr Moose
Member
Worse performance if that video is accurate (its just someone using TRDROP thought, I wouldn't trust it).
King Dazzar
Member
I think DF have been fair on the Syndicate analysis in terms of repeatedly stating it is a backwards compatible game. I'd expect the XSX to do well or even better - after all BC is the only reason I keep my XSX. There's also another advantage for the XSX in BC, is that it can apply VRR. Its a shame Ubisoft couldn't be arsed making it a native application. The tables would of course then be turned.
But what is interesting for me, is to find the Pro doing better than the base PS5, whilst running a PS4 game. I thought they'd be the same as the PS5 would already be maxing out the BC PS4 restrictions. So that's good/interesting to see.
But what is interesting for me, is to find the Pro doing better than the base PS5, whilst running a PS4 game. I thought they'd be the same as the PS5 would already be maxing out the BC PS4 restrictions. So that's good/interesting to see.
Vick
Member
Performance Now with increased base resolution (1440p), better Contact Shadows, Global Illumination, Screen Space Reflections, Spot Shadows, Sub Surface Scattering Quality and Fog Quality.
All on top of the tree shading, absolute lol at minor differences/hard to see. From the same users it would most likely be a complete generational difference if we were talking 5090 vs PS5 Pro.
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Pedro Motta
Member
Per your request, reuploaded some HFW, Blops 6 and GT7 footage on Portal, captured offscreen at 4K/60:
I think this convinced me, I'm going to get a Portal now.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Performance Now with increased base resolution (1440p), better Contact Shadows, Global Illumination, Screen Space Reflections, Spot Shadows, Sub Surface Scattering Quality and Fog Quality.
All on top of the tree shading, absolute lol at minor differences/hard to see. From the same users it would most likely be a complete generational difference if we were talking 5090 vs PS5 Pro.
The assumption, Vick, is that a 5090 wouldn't be running the game as low as 20fps lower than the PS5 Pro tho.
A Pro console should run the games at least as good as the base consoles, if not better, with expected visual enhancements.
Mr Moose
Member
Better shoe on the Pro.The assumption, Vick, is that a 5090 wouldn't be running the game as low as 20fps lower than the PS5 Pro tho.
A Pro console should run the games at least as good as the base consoles, if not better, with expected visual enhancements.
