Krappadizzle
Member
Makes me think of Witcher 2's ubersampling way back then, that seemed like it existed for tech not even considered at the time or even standards not commonly thought of....
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Digital Foundry: Star Wars Outlaws - PC Tech Review - The High-End Graphics Experience
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Mister Wolf
Member
Future proof settings is what PC gaming is all about. That and fine levels of customization. I'm glad Massive went all in.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
He doesn't, read again
- so a ray shot into a scene goes through these layers of boxes until it finally hits and enters one
- So travels in scene until it hits a bounding volume
- and registers a hit against geometry
- Because you hit a bounding box, test if it hits a triangle
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This game looks insane on PC. Holy shit.
I think PC has really leap frogged consoles this year.
I think PC has really leap frogged consoles this year.
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Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Yes, sucks that its attached to a poor game. Maybe if Ubisoft tries to salvage it a bit in the coming year it'll be more interesting to visit.
winjer
Member
He doesn't, read again
- so a ray shot into a scene goes through these layers of boxes until it finally hits and enters one
- So travels in scene until it hits a bounding volume
- and registers a hit against geometry
- Because you hit a bounding box, test if it hits a triangle
LOL, at no point in there does he refer to a bhv as a data structure.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I have seen a lot of people enjoying this game though. Personally, I'm not a big Star Wars fan, but if I were, the graphics alone would make me want to play this game and explore the locations.
It's like walking into a Star Wars movie.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Nobody gives a fuck about the tree structure to visualize and explain in layman terms what ray tracing is. Layers of boxes is already plenty enough. It even adds the concept of depth.
Again
Anyone other than winjer on this forum looks at that time stamped video, the part is not long to watch, at 8 min roughly, and find that the bigger picture of how it's happening is the visual cue of a ray hitting a box and then test triangle (from geometry) hit, or that the hierarchy of boxes is accelerated in a tree structure?
Anyone?
Didn't think so
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
He's still good despite his flaws. Kind of like Star Wars outlaws. You just got to take the good with the bad. And the vadt majority of the time he gets things right.
winjer
Member
Nobody gives a fuck about the tree structure to visualize and explain in layman terms what ray tracing is. Layers of boxes is already plenty enough. It even adds the concept of depth.
Again
Anyone other than winjer on this forum looks at that time stamped video, the part is not long to watch, at 8 min roughly, and find that the bigger picture of how it's happening is the visual cue of a ray hitting a box and then test triangle (from geometry) hit, or that the hierarchy of boxes is accelerated in a tree structure?
Anyone?
Didn't think so
May I just point out that you had to put a video from another person, that it's not Alex, to properly explain what a bvh structure is.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
am I taking crazy pills? it doesn't look great at all. lots of issues I see in all this videos and screen shots. not ot mention the actual pc game I am playing on my pcs.
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sharp weiner
Member
Isn't the first step before creating the hierarchical structure, bounding the primitive for processing simplification?
Which is a geometric change for the primitive.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, not sure why winjer is shitting on him so much. He's far from perfect, but he's pretty solid and does a good job explaining more complicated things to the layman. He has his flaws, but overall, I think he's a net positive.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
He still gives the same explanation
Create a simplified geometry of the scene. Make bounding boxes out of it, ray hits box, test if it hits triangle. Voila.
Same thing as the coding adventure tutorial.
Nobody cares how the bounding boxes were actually made in an optimized and accelerated way. The BVH structure is based on that simplified geometry, that's it, that's the layman explanation. He doesn't say bounding boxes are geometry.
I brought up a video from DF saying exactly this. Now, I don't think the guy is flawless, but I put in more effort so far than you did to find faults, except saying he does it often. Now if the example I gave above you interpret that as being wrong, we're off to a war of interpretations and I don't have time to waste on that. His version is simplified, but he didn't say it wrong.
winjer
Member
That is not the explanation for a bvh structure. That is an explanation of triangle testing. A simplistic one.
See, if you would watch people who know about this stuff, instead of Alex, you would know the difference.
Denton
Member
Good video. Finally, finally someone showed in detail what the extra RTX options in this game actually do.
And while what they do is nice, the performance is just so unacceptable that it might as well not be there. I know, it is intended for future hardware. But personally I doubt Outlaws will be so good that I would want to replay it with 6900 or whatever.
And while what they do is nice, the performance is just so unacceptable that it might as well not be there. I know, it is intended for future hardware. But personally I doubt Outlaws will be so good that I would want to replay it with 6900 or whatever.
winjer
Member
But that is what I'm saying. He is far from perfect.
His technical knowledge is very limited. And his style is a bit annoying.
But his comparisons and optimization guides are ok.
If people want to tweak a game's setting with his videos, that is perfectly fine. But he is not a tech guru, far from it.
Zathalus
Member
His continued crusade against stutters is something I really appreciate.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
When did I say it's the BVH structure? Holy shit dude, do you even read?
WHAT HAPPENS after a ray hits a bounding boxe?????
it tests for triangle hit
Not part of BVH, nobody is saying this, it's just the process of ray tracing
Again, word for word what he said
« so a ray shot into a scene goes through these layers of boxes until it finally hits and enters one and registers a hit against geometry »
A ray in a scene has to 1) hit a bounding box, AND then hit a triangle (geometry) to shade it.
He's not trying to explain how a BVH structure is made, just what the ray will hit.
Who is saying the triangle test is part of BVH? Is that person in the room with us?
Seriously winjer, enough already.
winjer
Member
He never explained what is a bvh. But often refers to it as just being geometry in his videos. That is the issue.
And it was you who posted that part of the video, as if that was proving he knew what a bvh was.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
He isn't a tech guru by any means, but it is nice that he has personal access to devs. I find those interviews he often does such as with Nixxes incredibly insightful. I mean, it's no small part thanks to him and the DF team that we know how long PS ports to PC take and a rough outline of the process. We also learned through them some of the difficulties associated with PC development from devs. He's also frequently quoted by developers and by and large, game devs like his work. They know he isn't a developer himself, but I have seen him get praised for what he brings to the table. I wouldn't defer to him for some deep technical insight, but his guides and granular analysis are awesome.
That's it, really. If you have something against the way he explains BVH (I don't even know what he says about it), you can always find him on Twitter (which sucks) or Beyond3D.
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winjer
Member
The bvh thing was just an example of how he messes up technical things.
My argument is just that he is not a technical guy. He does other things well enough, like you said.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
I picked a video where he explained steps to RT reflections and while ultimately super simplified, your first reply to my post was that he thinks BVH is geometry, in that very video he in fact separates the process and is exact opposite of what you are saying.
But do find exact moment in his videos where he says BVH is geometry, or don't bother replying
Enough of this thread derail
DanielG165
Gold Member
That part.
Senua
Member
It's 90% of the thread so far lmao.
DanielG165
Gold Member
It's ridiculous lol. How one individual nerdy guy causes this much disdain is beyond me.
OT: In any case, interestingly enough, I was able to get significantly BETTER performance by cranking the RT up to high across the board, and then switching on RR. I don't have an fps counter going, but I must've gone from mid 30s with RT on medium and RR, to probably 50s-60s with it on high? That's purely from in-hand feel and eye-test, though.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
There are some major issues with texture pop-in it seems unless you are running 20GB+ VRAM.
Things look pretty muddy with that from the various reviews I watched. That's ok, in six months to a year Ubi will patch the game up, there will be mods for MC visuals, the game will be $20 and I will get a 5080 or 5090.
Things look pretty muddy with that from the various reviews I watched. That's ok, in six months to a year Ubi will patch the game up, there will be mods for MC visuals, the game will be $20 and I will get a 5080 or 5090.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
The objects (assets) in the game are incredibly detailed. Even on compressed YT videos, they still look great.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
The objects (assets) in the game are incredibly detailed. Even on compressed YT videos, they still look great.
Damn, Snowdrop engine insane. This team did a great job with this game.
I might double dip and get this on PC, but maybe a few years down the line to replay or something.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
this made me laugh out loud even though its completely inaccurate. still, too funny.
ChiefDada
Member
"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN TAKE THIS WITH A TRUCKLOAD OF SALT BUT I'M HEARING FROM 3 OF MY EXCELLENT SOURCES WHO ARE SAYING THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE BUT ALSO 5 OF MY OTHER VERY GOOD SOURCES ARE SAYING IT'S NOT TRUE SO WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEEE…......."
P:axMagellanic
Member
He's wanking these graphics off whilst all I can see is muddy texture work.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Rocco Schiavone
Member
If you look at the price difference no wonder.
Senua
Member
Yup, you get what ya pay for.
Bonfires Down
Member
Wish there were comparison shots with consoles and optimized settings. But yeah, some of those shots look stunning and a night and day difference to the blurry artifacted mess on consoles.
Bojji
Member
Textures aren't very good that's for sure. But game loads better textures with more vram you so I wouldn't know with 12GB, lol.
Or at least it streams them from longer distance.
It's usually like that, to show of "cool tech" but it's not realistic at all. With standard denoisers RT shadows looks terrible anyway.
Edit: I think game can look really, really good and climatic:
Sorry for quality, recorded with gamebar app instead of GFE, hehe.
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Yep. One example was really off. I get that shadows should get softer with distance, but the effect should be rather subtle across big distance. But here, with character right in front of light source, we get like zero definition in shadow just couple of inches away. Few years ago we would say its just a low res, poor quality shadow. But now its good, just because ita RTX. Eventhough theres nothing realistic about it.
They did this in the past for some games and labeled their videos accordingly. Like "Optimised Settings". For example with Forbidden West, they had a 3070, 2070 Super and Intel Arc A770 running.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lmao. I was thinking the same thing.Yep. One example was really off. I get that shadows should get softer with distance, but the effect should be rather subtle across big distance. But here, with character right in front of light source, we get like zero definition in shadow just couple of inches away. Few years ago we would say its just a low res, poor quality shadow. But now its good, just because ita RTX. Eventhough theres nothing realistic about it.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
As a photographer, I can understand what's happening on this RTXDI screenshot. Have you read about the inverse square rule of light? As the distance from the light source doubles, the light intensity will drop to a quarter of the original source. The light source on this screenshot is not very bright to begin with (It's not even bright enough to illuminate a character's chair), so the shadows on this RTXDI image cant create hard light and strong shadows.Yep. One example was really off. I get that shadows should get softer with distance, but the effect should be rather subtle across big distance. But here, with character right in front of light source, we get like zero definition in shadow just couple of inches away. Few years ago we would say its just a low res, poor quality shadow. But now its good, just because ita RTX. Eventhough theres nothing realistic about it.
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