Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

Separate video than the performance one posted on the 31st Aug.



​

All footage captured on Xbox Series X. This is the Digital Foundry deep dive in Bethesda Games Studios' highly ambitious Starfield. John Linneman shares his journey through the game, discussing game design, rendering features, visuals, audio and just how free and open this new galaxy actually is. PC coverage is coming soon, along with a Starfield DF Direct Special.

00:00 - Introduction
02:25 - How Does Starfield Fit Together?
04:36 - Your Ship is so Detailed!
05:38 - The Cities of Starfield
08:11 - Reflections - Still Cube Maps
09:07 - Characters: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
11:08 - Landscape Showcase
13:40 - Global Illumination
14:29 - World Materials
16:00 - The Blemishes
17:28 - Structure and Loading
20:24 - I Dropped Soap Dispensers on the Bathroom Floor
21:34 - Edge of the World
22:48 - Additional Frame-rate Tests
24:07 - Loading Times and Playtime
25:52 - The Sound
27:27 - Let's Wrap This Up

 

[Mister Wolf]

Is Ground Truth Ambient Occlusion a huge step up over standard Screen Space?

 

[killatopak]

Loading times go longer the longer you play the game. My god I'm having release Skyrim flashbacks.

 

[twilo99]

Loading times go longer the longer you play the game. My god I'm having release Skyrim flashbacks.

Now imagine this game in a world without solid state drives..

 

[analog_future]

Concluding remarks:

"The consistency and quality of the game is extremely impressive, especially given the scale."

 

[Pop]

Concluding remarks:

"The consistency and quality of the game is extremely impressive, especially given the scale."

Yeah...sure

 

[OmegaSupreme]

At a blazing 30fps

 

[nowhat]

Concluding remarks:

"The consistency and quality of the game is extremely impressive, especially given the scale."

I suppose encountering identical structures with identical enemy placement is indeed consistent.

 

[Xtib81]

As expected from John, he barely focuses on the weak points.

 

[analog_future]

Yeah...sure

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Yeah...sure

Why do you disagree?

 

[FalconPunch]

The amount of excuses John is making is ridiculous. Where's that Shawn Michaels gif when you need it? For every flaw he points out, there's an excuse. It's ok to just point out a flaw and move on instead of trying to explain it away.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Thats some serious scratch

 

[adamsapple]

Cursory TL;DR since its a long video

- The ship is the 'central pillar'
- Planets and outer space are separate entities divided into bespoke sections
- Level of detail and granularity is impressive and the leap in fidelity over previous creation engine games is notable.
- Different locations feel like different games entirely, in terms of variances (re: comparing Neon, Atlantis, Aquilla etc)

- The game relies on cube maps rather than SSR or RT reflections.
- Water rending is rather flat and not much improved over prior Creation Engine games
- Physically based materials on character models are a gigantic leap over prior Bethesda games
- The character creation system are a big step forward over previous BGS games

- Planetary variances outside of big cities praised while pointing out pop-in for rocks etc.
- New Global Illumination system praised.
- Non RT solution means shadows can often be brightly lit
- You are prone to run into some 'very unsightly textures' when planet exploring too, however

- ID software collaborated with the per-pixel motion blur.
- It can be disabled for those who want.
- No underwater exploration

- Commendable job with the game rendering, genuinely beautiful 'most of the time at least'

- General traversal from a mission start to space shown with the small loading screens in between
- Approach with fast travel understandable to avoid boredom but John wishes there was a middle ground

- Touches upon games item persistence about items being left in universe wherever you drop.
- On paper functions like any other Bethesda game with segmentation.
- "This is an RPG with a space background, not a space sim" (re: unlike No Man's Sky)

- DF thinks there is enough headroom that a future performance mode might be viable.

- Load times can become longer the more time you have spent in the game
- The game needs a peak brightness setting, which it does not have right now
- There is no FoV slider either

- Comment on how stable the game is compared to other BGS games at launch.
- Comment on orchestral music and sound design

 

[Darsxx82]

I didn't expect the level of detail, level of texturing, PBR of the environments to be of such an impressive level. Especially when those were always neglected points in previous Bethesda games. Interactivity with objects and how they remain in the world (unique feature of Bethesda games).

It is clear that not everything is perfect, but it is equally clear that the visual finish is very well done and that, in a Bethesda game, is a great novelty.

In fact, it is a game that due to this level of detail in short distances (beyond the random NPCs), artistic work and variety of appearance of the different areas is the perfect candidate to squeeze the photo mode.

P.S. It's funny that the travel and exploration system limited by tiles and loading times produces a loss in the realism of the experience, but (as is the case of Jonh and many like me) for those who want more direct action and things Doing without breaks or walks can be maybe a positive point.

 

[YCoCg]

As expected from John, he barely focuses on the weak points.

He points out the basic HDR and SDR issues, he points out the lack of FOV scale, he points out the loading times and even provides evidence that loading times increase the longer you play it, he points out how bad the NPCs look, etc.

 

[Zuzu]

12 years of progress

 

[skit_data]

Can't believe he included one of those googly eye NPCs in the tech review

 

[Woody337]

Concluding remarks:

"The consistency and quality of the game is extremely impressive, especially given the scale."

There is no scale. Its an illusion of size.

 

[mrcroket]

The campaign that many of you are leading to discredit starfield is impressive. I don't remember something so exaggerated against any game ever.

I wonder if the story would have been completely different if the game came out on all platforms....

 

[analog_future]

Can't believe he included one of those googly eye NPCs in the tech review

Must be some good fuckin milk

 

[Fake]

Loading times go longer the longer you play the game. My god I'm having release Skyrim flashbacks.

Well, is the Skyrim engine you know.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Concluding remarks:

"The consistency and quality of the game is extremely impressive, especially given the scale."

It's almost like buzzwords are fed. Did they say scope™ too a few times too for good measure?

 

[twilo99]

Unless you play the game it’s impossible to portray how big it is… I’m yet to find any copy/pasted content but I would very surprised if there wasn’t any.

If you consider the scope, they’ve done an amazing job.

I really wish taking off and landing had an option for a manual operation.

The hazy look is not my favorite, so hopefully that can be modded out.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Loading times go longer the longer you play the game. My god I'm having release Skyrim flashbacks.

That was a PS3-specific issue and took a year to fix. Otherwise minor additions to loading times in a game like this is normal.

 

[mansoor1980]

very fair analysis

 

[DeepEnigma]

If you consider the scope

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

It's almost like buzzwords are fed. Did they say scope™ too a few times too for good measure?

It’s like DF isn’t allowed to say or do anything without certain people just always finding something to hate on. I don’t get it. What am I missing? Some people say they’re Xbox fanboys, the other half say they’re Sony fanboys. I’m thinking neither is true, and I’ve been watching their coverage for like 7 years.

They’ve complained so much in the past about Bethesda and using the creation engine and how outdated it is, and how they wished they’d move on. But of course the complainers gloss over that

 

[killatopak]

Well, is the Skyrim engine you know.

Yeah but this is Creation Engine 2.0 A revamp from what Skyrim had used.

Plenty other games used older engines and repurposed them for their own game. This should be neither Creation 1.0, Gamebryo or Netimmerse anymore.

That was a PS3-specific issue and took a year to fix. Otherwise minor additions to loading times in a game like this is normal.

An issue that was resolved in FO4 shouldn't pop up again in future titles. That's going backwards.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It’s like DF isn’t allowed to say or do anything without certain people just always finding something to hate on. I don’t get it. What am I missing? Some people say they’re Xbox fanboys, the other half say they’re Sony fanboys. I’m thinking neither is true, and I’ve been watching their coverage for like 7 years.

Ok

 

[twilo99]

But you know what I mean… it’s easier to make a smaller space more detailed and more content rich than a bigger space

 

[DeepEnigma]

But you know what I mean… it’s easier to make a smaller space more detailed and more content rich than a bigger space

I know, just having some fun, lol.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Yeah but this is Creation Engine 2.0 A revamp from what Skyrim had used.

Plenty other games used older engines and repurposed them for their own game. This should be neither Creation 1.0, Gamebryo or Netimmerse anymore.

An issue that was resolved in FO4 shouldn't pop up again in future titles. That's going backwards.

Lmao ok? Who ever said that or made that rule for game development? You? Where is that written down at. Are you a software engineer or work with game engine toolsets?

 

[lucbr]

I played only 4 hours and I think it is very beautiful and impressive. Don't know if it will get repetitive.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Nice compare and contrast shot

doesn't look like 2 generations worth of improvement. Looks like xbox 360 to xbox one if anything.

 

[skit_data]

Must be some good fuckin milk

Possibly even "finger licking good" considering his pinky is clipping through

 

[Tedditalk]

Game overall looks extremely impressive.
Definitely going to be my first pick up when I get one of the pc handhelds. Happy for the guys who can enjoy it now.

Yeah...sure

Are you one of those console warriors, or are you hating on what you can't afford? Embarrassing performance either way.

 

[Faust]

Folks, discuss the merits of the video. Do not try to push console wars.

 

[Fake]

Yeah but this is Creation Engine 2.0 A revamp from what Skyrim had used.

Plenty other games used older engines and repurposed them for their own game. This should be neither Creation 1.0, Gamebryo or Netimmerse anymore.

The point is they're using the same engine, with the same problems as their previous one unless they tackle off.

Reminds me Unreal Engine 3 awful bad frame pacing issues that follow the engine no matter what. If the programmers don't fix this issue, their next version of the engine will never get better.

 

[adamsapple]

Having gotten out of the starting planets now, the new GI system they're using is pretty damn good. The game also has a shit ton of light sources everywhere, probably the best they could have done outside of a straight up RT solution.

Bolting RT on Creation Engine would probably be a recipe for disaster as it is though.

 

[winjer]

Is Ground Truth Ambient Occlusion a huge step up over standard Screen Space?

Not a huge step, but it's more accurate. And also a bit heavier.
It's biggest advantage is that it takes into consideration near field indirect illumination. Meaning it's an ambient occlusion system that is "aware" of Global Illumination.
This means that, depending on a scene, shadows cast with GTAO will not be as dark as SSAO, but rather blend better with the light in the scene.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Game can look astonishingly good on pc at times. I've not fired up my series x version yet but PC is fit!

 

[Dacvak]

I didn’t expect so much GAF drama surrounding this game. It’s been more entertaining than all of the actual coverage of Starfield so far.

 

[killatopak]

Lmao ok? Who ever said that or made that rule for game development? You? Where is that written down at. Are you a software engineer or work with game engine toolsets?

Yes, I am a software engineer. Not for games though.

 

[TonyK]

Your ship is the most impressive thing I saw in the game in the first hours. Almost CGi level:

 

[DeepEnigma]

Having gotten out of the starting planets now, the new GI system they're using is pretty damn good. The game also has a shit ton of light sources everywhere, probably the best they could have done outside of a straight up RT solution.

Bolting RT on Creation Engine would probably be a recipe for disaster as it is though.

Yeah, I do like the artistic design to their lighting, inaccuracies don't bother me as much as they do others. Alex should spin in his Star Citizen comparing grave of yesteryear, but something tells me he will forget about those years and his fervor about inaccuracies in his PC coverage. We'll see.

As for RT, oh man, it felt all kinds of weird and I was expecting a total disaster when announced for Elden Ring (surprisingly it was okay at best for being shadows only), but that performance was rough, I can only imagine the hellish outcome with this engine.

 

[Xtib81]

He points out the basic HDR and SDR issues, he points out the lack of FOV scale, he points out the loading times and even provides evidence that loading times increase the longer you play it, he points out how bad the NPCs look, etc.

For every criticism, he immediately finds excuses or minimizes said criticism.. Like, is it possible to say that those NPCs look like absolute trash? Or that the draw distance with trees and what not in the distance look like a 2016 PS4 game? How acceptable is it that a 2023 AAA game has loading screens everywhere, especially now that consoles have ssd? Other things like interiors look very good but there are some very weak points from a technical standpoint and I feel like he kinds of put it under the rug.

 

[winjer]

For every criticism, he immediately finds excuses or minimizes said critique.. Like, is it possible to say that those NPCs look like absolute trash? Or that the draw distance with trees and what not in the distance look like a 2016 PS4 game? How acceptable is it that a 2023 AAA game has loading screens everywhere, especially now that consoles have ssd? Other things like interiors look very good but there are some very weak points from a technical standpoint and I feel he kinds of put it under the rug.

Yea, at several points in the video, it seemed more like an advert for the game, than an honest unbiased opinion.

 

[YCoCg]

For every criticism, he immediately finds excuses or minimizes said critique.. Like, is it possible to say that those NPCs look like absolute trash? Or that the draw distance with trees and what not in the distance look like a 2016 PS4 game? How acceptable is it that a 2023 AAA game has loading screens everywhere, especially now that consoles have ssd? Other things like interiors look very good but there are some very weak points from a technical standpoint and I feel he kinds of put it under the rug.

I think some people will always view Digital Foundry videos under a biased lens even before they start the video, you say he minimises the criticism but that's not what I sensed at all. In the past DF have been called shills for pretty much every damn company under the sun if they mention anything positive, so I guess the clock is now pointing back to "Microsoft paid them!!!11!!11!" because they mentioned the positive things about Starfield.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I played only 4 hours and I think it is very beautiful and impressive. Don't know if it will get repetitive.

At least we can safely bet the handcrafted stuff won’t be. At least not as much as it was in any previous BGS title, I imagine. And they’ve promised more of that in Starfield than in any previous BGS title. Excited to play it sometime when I have the time.