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[Men_in_Boxes]

Am I just getting old or does anyone else generally prefer visual clarity over high detail in their games? The only time I make an exception for the latter is when the gameplay pace is slow (Resident Evil, Splinter Cell). Does NeoGAF prefer clarity or detail? I genuinely think Doom The Dark Ages would be a better game if it was more readable.

TEAM VISUAL CLARITY:





TEAM VISUAL DETAIL:

 

[N0S]

Max settings

 

[DeepEnigma]

Both.

 

[intbal]

As long as the boobs are big, either way is fine.

 

[Topher]

What good is detail if it is blurry?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What good is detail if it is blurry?

I don't think resolution is really what we're discussing here. It's the ability for the eye to read the environment quickly and with relative ease. Obviously both types benefit from good resolution and frame rates.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

Both.

yeah, your visual design/language needs to support the game's level of detail

if you need obnoxious visual markers and stuff to indicate objects are interactive, it isnt working

 

[rm082e]

That's not the way I think about the forced choice personally.

What I care about is having a solid frame rate with consistent frame pacing. That's the top priority to me. The more detail and effects they can add to a game that has smooth frame pacing, the better. Doom is a perfect example of that - those games run like melted butter and that's what makes them so good (along with the attitude).

I just finished up Hogwarts Legacy and as much as I enjoyed that game, my memory of it will always be scared by the hitching, stuttering, inconsistent frame rate. It was worth finishing, but I kind of dreaded every fast travel into Hogsmead.

Game Play/Fun Factor > Art Direction > Frame Pacing > Max Frame Rate > Level of Detail > Everything Else (ray tracing, etc.)


Edit: I think part of this is Single Player games vs multiplayer. I'm a single-player only person, so I appreciate level of detail and art direction maybe more than someone who wants a very slick experience so they can focus on the competitive mechanics?

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What I care about is having a solid frame rate with consistent frame pacing.

What if both styles (clarity and detail) both have great frame rates and consistent frame pacing?

 

[Kuranghi]

Another, maybe easier to parse, way to say what you mean is: Spatial Resolution and Temporal Resolution, the former for image quality and the latter for higher framerates.

Personally I prefer higher spatial resolution over temporal, as long as the frames are paced correctly and input lag isn't comically high (I was playing the remaster of NFS: Hot Pursuit the other day and whatever sync solution they are using is insane, the input lag at 30fps I would say is unplayable considering its a racing game). Often 30fps is fine for me and I certainly don't care about framerates over 60fps except in really specific cases (hyper fast paced games with low detail art styles/graphics, eg Horizon Chase Turbo), so if the framerate is locked to 60fps and paced properly then atp I would 99.99% of the time choose higher image quality instead of going over 60fps.

I game on a really high contrast 65" TV that gives an HDR experience thats top 10 in the world for all TVs so it makes a huge difference to have higher resolution/image quality for me personally. The TV also naturally blurs the frames almost perfectly (the 80% pixel response time is 31ms, very close to the frametime of a frame at 30fps), so the issues sample and hold type displays have that would make you want a higher framerate are lessened as best they can be.

I also spend a lot of my time in games looking at stuff with a still or near still frame, so thats a huge factor for me. I don't ever play MP games so input lag advantage considerations are not relevant.

I don't think resolution is really what we're discussing here. It's the ability for the eye to read the environment quickly and with relative ease. Obviously both types benefit from good resolution and frame rates.

Uhh okay then, I didn't understand your question at all, nvm then ha.

 

[Topher]

I don't think resolution is really what we're discussing here. It's the ability for the eye to read the environment quickly and with relative ease. Obviously both types benefit from good resolution and frame rates.

Ok. Typically when we talk about clarity it is terms of resolution, but I think I follow what you are talking about with the examples provided. Still think I'm on team clarity, for the most part.

 

[rm082e]

What if both styles (clarity and detail) both have great frame rates and consistent frame pacing?

Then I'm generally inclined to like games that have more detail and clutter than a slick sterile experience. I know this is a whacky comparison, but I am more attracted to games like Demon's Souls Remake over something slick like the new Marathon.

I think the super slick presentation with minimal clutter make sense when it's a competitive game like an FPS or racing sim. By keeping the presentation super clean, you let the players spend more brain cycles focused on the calculations they need to perform at a high level, without added distractions. I'm just not into those type of games so it doesn't apply to me.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

The way I'd put it is that I value good performance, period. Visual clarity is more important to me than adding more effects and what have you - ain't no question for me there. But I also think consistent performance - primarily consistent frametimes - is super important, as is low input lag. These are the things that make a game more pleasing to look at when you actually play the thing, and good game feel is 100% more important than going overboard with the visuals.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Then I'm generally inclined to like games that have more detail and clutter than a slick sterile experience. I know this is a whacky comparison, but I am more attracted to games like Demon's Souls Remake over something slick like the new Marathon.

I think the super slick presentation with minimal clutter make sense when it's a competitive game like an FPS or racing sim. By keeping the presentation super clean, you let the players spend more brain cycles focused on the calculations they need to perform at a high level, without added distractions. I'm just not into those type of games so it doesn't apply to me.

Generally I think you're right. I'm just surprised the poll is favoring the type I prefer. I assumed NeoGAF (SP gamers) would prefer detail over clarity.

 

[rm082e]

Generally I think you're right. I'm just surprised the poll is favoring the type I prefer. I assumed NeoGAF (SP gamers) would prefer detail over clarity.

I think that's more the way that you worded it. I've never seen anyone complain that a game like Doom has too much going on visually.

 

[viveks86]

Unable to choose. For the games listed in the OP, the developers have prioritized what is right for their game and art style and I agree with that priority for those games. So... it depends?

 

[Fbh]

Based on your examples I'd go with team detail.
BUT, I also think good IQ at 60fps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better graphics.
If past Doom games and Indiana Jones (Same engine) are anything to go by, Doom The Dark Ages will probably deliver 60fps at good REAL resolutions while still offering nice visual detail even on console and lower en PC's.

 

[March Climber]

Generally I think you're right. I'm just surprised the poll is favoring the type I prefer. I assumed NeoGAF (SP gamers) would prefer detail over clarity.

It's because if you play a game that prefers detail over clarity, it sometimes leads to a game with a large amount of visual clutter which is much more annoying than a game that prefers clarity over detail as that would simply end up being something more simple-looking like any old school games 20+ years ago.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I think that's more the way that you worded it. I've never seen anyone complain that a game like Doom has too much going on visually.

I'm noticing it a lot lately because I'm playing a bunch of SP games (Days Gone, Returnal, Gran Turismo) but I'm a PvP oriented gamer. I genuinely thought The Dark Ages looked poor visually.

I do wonder if even SP gamers are starting to not appreciate bleeding edge visuals like they did 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[SHAKEZ]

I also really like well done VFX.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Unable to choose. For the games listed in the OP, the developers have prioritized what is right for their game and art style and I agree with that priority for those games. So... it depends?

I actually think both Returnal and Doom The Dark Ages would be better games if they stressed readability (clarity) over the BS clutter they both have.

 

[viveks86]

I actually think both Returnal and Doom The Dark Ages would be better games if they stressed readability (clarity) over the BS clutter they both have.

They would be better games as they would be more functional, but they would lose their unique visual identity. At the end, that's a creative choice and may or may not match tastes. I personally seem to have no problem with either. Though I'm sure there is a line beyond which even I can't tolerate clutter. Like this:

 

[Radical_3d]

IQ like the HFW on the Pro is why I which I like Horizon.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yes, I will not play anything on console that isn't at least 60 fps. Pretty graphics dont look as good when it becomes a slide show

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

What are we talking here? some refer about framerate. some about IQ, some about hud..

 

[FoxMcChief]

I want both at the cost of frames. 30 is all I need.

 

[SHA]

Objects > Clarity
Creatures > Detail

 

[Laptop1991]

Always turn off Motion Blur and DOF, i like detail but as posted above, why not both.

 

[viveks86]

What are we talking here? some refer about framerate. some about IQ, some about hud..

Well, they all contribute to what reaches your eyeballs. So take your pick!

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

Well, they all contribute to what reaches your eyeballs. So take your pick!

Hmm ok! it didn't used to be like that.. but for now framerate is king, obviously i don't want to go too much low in res, but will always choose the performance mode on consoles, also hud as clean as can get.. no enemies hp bars etc for me.

 

[Melfice7]

We can have both at the same time... but if i have to choose i prefer clarity

 

[RoboFu]

Yes a clean polished game is better looking than any rough, blurry, mess of a game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

What are we talking here? some refer about framerate. some about IQ, some about hud..

I guess I didn't explain it well enough.

It's basically simple, easy to read visuals vs high fidelity visuals with lots of detail. It doesn't have to do with frame rate or IQ.

 

[od-chan]

Well maybe it's just the examples that you're giving that are putting me off, but I definitely prefer Returnal and Doom over fucking Valorant, in terms of looks. What you call "clarity" here is what I'd call "reductive". Obviously this works well for something like Valorant (or Quake), but I don't see why I would want my single player games to look like it's 1999.

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

Well maybe it's just the examples that you're giving that are putting me off, but I definitely prefer Returnal and Doom over fucking Valorant, in terms of looks. What you call "clarity" here is what I'd call "reductive". Obviously this works well for something like Valorant (or Quake), but I don't see why I would want my single player games to look like it's 1999.

oh yeah now i understand it a bit more.. kinda.. like more effects and such on doom, so i'm team detail.

 

[March Climber]

They would be better games as they would be more functional, but they would lose their unique visual identity. At the end, that's a creative choice and may or may not match tastes. I personally seem to have no problem with either. Though I'm sure there is a line beyond which even I can't tolerate clutter. Like this:

I mostly agree with your point but I'd argue that screenshot is more UI clutter than visual/graphical clutter.

This is visual/graphical clutter to me:

 

[Trilobit]

Unable to choose. For the games listed in the OP, the developers have prioritized what is right for their game and art style and I agree with that priority for those games. So... it depends?

"It depends" were the two words I had in mind after watching OP's videos. It all depends on what kind of game and style they are going for. I wouldn't care for extra clarity in a game with heavy atmosphere and which takes place mostly at night. Murkiness is perfectly fine sometimes. Too much clarity can make a game feel almost sterile if it doesn't fit it.

 

[Beechos]

Whatever super high res textures fall into. Theres a huge difference in visual quality when photogrammetry is used to create the textures.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Sony and Nintendo deserve big credit on that front this generation e.g. image quality has been terrific for the most part. However it comes about e.g. hardware, dev SDK or policies for third party etc. Overall Sony and Ninty just nail down the clarity of their game very well. Ratchet and Astrobot come to mind right away.

 

[viveks86]

Yes a clean polished game is better looking than any rough, blurry, mess of a game.

Yeah if those are the options, I would think most people would choose the former. But OPs examples are totally functional games on both sides.

I mostly agree with your point but I'd argue that screenshot is more UI clutter than visual/graphical clutter.

This is visual/graphical clutter to me:

UI is also part of the visual package for me. So yeah, they are both clutter. Suicide squad has just as much graphical clutter as well, in my opinion. It was just terrible all around.

 

[LordOfChaos]

There's a time and place for either

However I definitely prefer the added motion clarity of 60fps over just adding details that are going to blur up anyways at 30

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

how can you have visual detail without visual clarity?

and assuming we are talking about the same game; if you choose visual clarity over visual detail, you are fundamentally changing the game's presentation.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

how can you have visual detail without visual clarity?

and assuming we are talking about the same game; if you choose visual clarity over visual detail, you are fundamentally changing the game's presentation.

I will explain it another way for those who still don't understand.

Visual Clarity:

Visual Detail:

Returnal (and Doom) are based on your ability to read enemy locations quickly, read the map quickly, and read projectiles quickly. The visual clutter the game puts off diminishes the players ability to do those three things quickly.

The Last of Us II is a visual detail game, but it works because the pace of the game is relatively slow and it's more about developing an atmosphere than it is about playing.

 

[ReBurn]

My old eyes don't really see detail in motion, so I prefer clarity.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I will explain it another way for those who still don't understand.

Visual Clarity:



Visual Detail:


Returnal (and Doom) are based on your ability to read enemy locations quickly, read the map quickly, and read projectiles quickly. The visual clutter the game puts off diminishes the players ability to do those three things quickly.

The Last of Us II is a visual detail game, but it works because the pace of the game is relatively slow and it's more about developing an atmosphere than it is about playing.

but you are talking about the effect of the Frame Rate.

Visual Clarity and Visual Detail are more related to Resolution and Image Quality.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

but you are talking about the effect of the Frame Rate.

Visual Clarity and Visual Detail are more related to Resolution and Image Quality.

Look at the flags. Its not a question of frame rate. Doom and Returnal are both 60fps games just like Valorant and Astro.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

I didn’t vote because I believe we are at the point we shouldn’t choose one or the other. The problem with today’s AAA games is they run on licensed “engines”, UE4-5 etc. this gives many game the same look and feel even in totally different genres.

Years ago they literally had hand drawn art and their own animation systems.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Look at the flags. Its not a question of frame rate. Doom and Returnal are both 60fps games just like Valorant and Astro.

bro. the flags are just a single image.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

the same Frame Rate. One has better Image quality.

The detail is destroyed by poor Visual Clarity (because of bad Image Quality)