A Link to the Past
Banned
"Absolutely clear" is a human determination. I'm not comfortable with the idea that we can be absolutely clear on what is absolutely clear all the time.
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Dylann Roof (neo-Nazi Charleston church shooter) found guilty on all counts
- Thread starter Dram
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"Absolutely clear" is a human determination. I'm not comfortable with the idea that we can be absolutely clear on what is absolutely clear all the time.
Samuraicop
Member
Let that man cook
The death penalty is more expensive than a life sentence. Giving him the death penalty would be spending more money in order to basically give him what he wants.
I'm sure this is how a lot of people in lynch mobs feel. They get together with a bunch of like-minded individuals and let mob mentality take over.
Take 10 steps back and really look at what you're saying.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
People like Roof want to be tortured, want to be killed, to be martyrs for their cause. They also won't respond to being threatened or shamed. There is nothing you can do in a pragmatic sense but isolate them from society.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Just give him multiple upon multiple life sentences at the a prison for the most hardcore of offenders. No solitary confinement.
Slavery underpins our legal system.
Slavery underpins our legal system.
I don't speak for a mob. I speak for myself.
I don't need to take 10 steps back from anything. I know what I wrote. I wrote it.
Do you not understand that I'm conflicted on his eventual fate? That I don't want any human to be killed in the name of justice, but at the very same time, I would want him to pay the piper for his actions? Or did you just want to add a poorly contrived counterpoint?
If you wanted to post, then do so without adding nonsense to what I said. I didn't mention anyone else but myself.
Back to what I was saying: the conflict is real and I honestly don't know how to feel.
Why do you think you feel this way about this guy? Do you feel the same way about other mass murderers? Or was it something specific about this case?
You feel the way you do for a reason.
Society evolved because throughout history humans put things like Dylan Roof down. He needs to be put down for society.
Because it could've been my grandparents. It could've been me.
I felt the same way about Sandy Hook. About the Boston Marathon bombing.
Human compassion doesn't have to always have a reason. I can be compassionate and also feel anger towards what happened. I can want to forgive and also want to repay horrible acts.
I'm human. I'm complex.
Yep, this is why I can never support the death penalty.
If we could restrict it to only cases like this where it is obvious then I would have to reconsider, but if even a single innocent soul is snuffed out then I can't support it.
The justice system in America means that if as long as a harsh penalty exists, then innocent minorities WILL become victims of that penalty. It's as American as apple pie.
Netherscourge
Banned
Using "make me a martyr" is a tactical defense against the death penalty by the defendant. He's using reverse psychology to get a life sentence instead of immediate death.
You're playing into his agenda by NOT doing want he wants.
I do not believe he really wants to die. I think he planned all of this.
You're playing into his agenda by NOT doing want he wants.
I do not believe he really wants to die. I think he planned all of this.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Society has evolved beyond the need to kill someone just to keep him or her from being harmful.
Psychoward
Banned
Maybe so, but executing unarmed, restrained individuals is kinda fucked up to me. No matter how horrific they are. Just put them in prison for the rest of their life.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Time to take from him the most important thing he took from others. No other punishment is good enough.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
It's always made me a little uncomfortable too, especially since prison justice often relies on the fundamental failures of our prison system, but a thread about a mass-murdering neo-Nazi is going to understandably bring out darker feelings. It isn't a pleasant topic.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I think the people doing the calling out probably have disagreements about the "bloodlust is valid" part, not the "he did something wrong and he's a racist committing an act of racial terror" part, so I wouldn't expect reiterating what he did is something they're likely to change their minds over.
This is simply not true. The death penalty is still used, and has use, in our society.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Who cares about him being a matyr. Dude needs to be executed a swift as possible.
Claude Augario
Member
The sooner he plummets to hell the better. There are simply too many white supremacists in and around law enforcement and the prison system, it'll be only a matter of time before he escapes and targets another black church, or a black school or any other vulnerable place. He's too dangerous too keep around.
Escapes? Really? I don't think that's going to be particularly feasible since he'll be in lockdown 23+ hours a day, more than likely.
Psychoward
Banned
What? He's saying society has evolved beyond needing to kill someone to keep them from harming others. Which it definitely has.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
He doesn't deserve to be around. He took all of their lives so it's only fitting he loses his which his coward ass is trying everything in his power to keep.
Nah he's a threat to prisoners too. Got to put him down old sport.
Square2015
Member
Can we have him lynched?
Bus transporting Roof flips over in the rain, you won't see a tear from me. But the State has gotta get outta the business of killing people, because as long as it keeps happening, innocent people, ESPECIALLY innocent POC are gonna die. Killing this fucker isn't worth one dead innocent man.
I'm an innocent man- I've also got two kids and a wife. I ask myself, is it worth it to have the State arrest me and kill me if it means people like Roof die too? The answer is "no" for myself, so how could I make it "yes" for anyone else?
This is a slippery slope.
Literally ANY legal action in this country can impact innocent POC in theory. Does that mean we stop all judgements on law?
CaviarMeths
Member
Why would anyone care about "making him a martyr"? This isn't a movie. Nobody gives a fuck about whatever cause he thinks he has. Martyrdom should have no relevance whatsoever in the debate of his sentencing.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'd say this brings out a lot more anger in some people because these nine black churchgoers did exactly what white moderates harangue minorities to do daily; reaching out to racists with love and understanding.
They invited him into their sanctuary and he killed them.
Many of the victims' families said they forgive him. It doesn't mean all black people have to.
They invited him into their sanctuary and he killed them.
Many of the victims' families said they forgive him. It doesn't mean all black people have to.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I'll give you a few minutes to figure out what distinguishes a wrongful execution from every other wrongful conviction.
Coffee Dog
Banned
There isn't any benefit to the death penalty unless you're willing to argue that it's the court's place to help grieving families find peace. Life without parole accomplishes much of the same goals anyway.
Good. Fuck that monster. One of the few places I'm not a leftist is when it comes to clear cut cases of extremely aggressive and one-sided murder. In cases where the person admits it or it's done so publicly as to be indisputable and that person is sane(!) they should be put to death. Call it what you want, my conscience is clear on this.
Of course the number of people who meet that threshold is likely only a handful compared to the willy nilly way most states execute people who might be innocent or whose motives or mental state are in question.
If that's the distinction between life w/o parole and death I'd say we give deference to the family.
As far as which one is more inhumane I'd say there are pretty compelling arguments that life in a box is equal to or worse than execution.
To often I think people interpret some support for the death penalty to mean agreement with the fucked up system we have in place. I've supported the Innocence Project for years but in certain cases like this, an Oklahoma Bomber, or despot I think it's fine if society decides they can live with it.
Of course the number of people who meet that threshold is likely only a handful compared to the willy nilly way most states execute people who might be innocent or whose motives or mental state are in question.
If that's the distinction between life w/o parole and death I'd say we give deference to the family.
As far as which one is more inhumane I'd say there are pretty compelling arguments that life in a box is equal to or worse than execution.
To often I think people interpret some support for the death penalty to mean agreement with the fucked up system we have in place. I've supported the Innocence Project for years but in certain cases like this, an Oklahoma Bomber, or despot I think it's fine if society decides they can live with it.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Honestly as someone who is against the death penalty I have to agree, only issue I have is the exuberant vengeance, revenge, and bloodlust that is being discussed. Damn.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It's more expensive because of all the appeals. In a situation like this I think it's a waste.
Frozenprince
Banned
I hope he gets life and is forced to live in Gen Pop. That's pretty much all I want.
See how long until he's pissing himself every hour of the day.
See how long until he's pissing himself every hour of the day.
Forerunner
Member
Personally, I'm against the death penalty it's more trouble than it's worth. I'm curious to see if he gets it or not. For example, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (Boston Bomber) got the death penalty. So I'm curious if they do it to him. If he does get life, there is no way in hell he'll be general population. He'll be dead in a week.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The appeals are necessary because it is impossible, legally, to have a definition of "clear cut" without that definition being able to apply to potentially innocent men.
The appeals process is a consequence of the death penalty's very existence and without it it would devalue the weight of loss of human life by means of state intervention drastically.
Galactic Barret
Member
This part
I have no words for it. My jaw is still slack.
Edit: I found words.
How does one rationalize researching on the internet black on white crime, yet proceeds to kill people that he ascertained would pose actual little harm to himself? That isn't even close to vigilantism, that is pure racial hatred seeped in the rawest form of cowardice available to sentient beings.
I don't usually believe in the death penalty, but he should be burned at the stake for this. Let a pack of wolves after him to be hunted in return.
..really fucked me up.
I have no words for it. My jaw is still slack.
Edit: I found words.
How does one rationalize researching on the internet black on white crime, yet proceeds to kill people that he ascertained would pose actual little harm to himself? That isn't even close to vigilantism, that is pure racial hatred seeped in the rawest form of cowardice available to sentient beings.
I don't usually believe in the death penalty, but he should be burned at the stake for this. Let a pack of wolves after him to be hunted in return.
GoldenEye 007
Member
If he get's death, he'll still be in jail for a solid 20 years or so. It's not like they'll take him out back and just shoot him after the jury makes their decision.
He'll have a great time in solitary for awhile, then he'll get the needle. Everybody wins!
But yes, I fully recognize that the death penalty as a whole is flawed and should be abolished.
He'll have a great time in solitary for awhile, then he'll get the needle. Everybody wins!
But yes, I fully recognize that the death penalty as a whole is flawed and should be abolished.
sturgboski
Member
Whew, thank god the criminal justice system works...unless the defendant is wealthy or an officer.
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