frankie_baby
Member
yay so yet another murder, just what the world needs
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dylann Roof sentenced to death for the murders of nine black church members
- Thread starter gamma
- Start date
- Status
Accuracy
Audioboxer
Member
According to you? What happens if you don't believe in an afterlife and think that is you snuffed out for good? Don't underestimate the human mind to wish to live even in the face of grave consequences, such as life in prison.
It seems as if some of you haven't watched your fair share of prison documentaries. Among all the horrific bad shit that goes on, some prisons do have a small snippet of what it is to live with day to day life events, education and somewhat of a life to live till your days are up. Not everyone gets locked in solitary confinement.
Yes death can be the easy way out, which given's Roof's age, there's an argument that is what he is getting (personally I agree, this is the easy way out for him), but it's not some blanket statement where every prisoner will be jumping up for joy to be executed rather than face life in prison. No point in projecting your thoughts on prison life, as you aren't a convict. Instead listen and research what convicts say. Sure some want death, but others make do with what they have and the situations that got them where they are. As I argued earlier part of rehabilitation isn't just trying to get people released, but having individuals live with what they have done and watching their inner monologue to judge if they ever repent or feel remorse. Part of that process can be for re-evaluation for release, another part of it is just about studying criminal minds, especially in cases of life sentences. We know they aren't getting out, but they still get psychological evaluations and take part in prison life ~ If they don't end up in solitary.
family_guy
Member
Regardless of life in prison being more torture or not, I'm of the mindset of at least making that person useful in some regard. Put them to work. Death penalty seems like a waste.
Audioboxer
Member
Not sure I'd go that far, if you're meaning public work? I mean we have community service for minor crimes for that reason. To give back to a community or those you have hurt. People who end up inside but not on life sentences then yeah, we do try our best to get them to a stage where they might be able to contribute to society again on the outside. It's difficult to judge this and get it right, but we try. America also has a serious problem with people in jail who shouldn't even be there, such as via the war on drugs. Addiction problems should be treated as mental health care issues, not prison. Yes, even for sellers, but sure, if you're part of a multi-million drug ring operation you're probably due to serve some time. All in proportion. Selling low amounts locally then no, don't start locking people up for their lives. Chances are that is more to do with poverty and trying to put food on the table.
Or maybe you can explain more if you don't mean the likes of public work.
entremet
Member
You mentioned rehabilitation. Roof lost that right.
Systolique
Member
Except I did not, read again, not the first time you missread
entremet
Member
Systolique
Member
I never said that either?
I think there's a misunderstanding, or you are mistaking one thing for another.
Omegasquash
Member
I am against the death penalty, however I will not sign my name to a petition to spare his life unless the families of the victims do as well.
May whatever god he worships have mercy on his soul.
May whatever god he worships have mercy on his soul.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
This is blatant circular logic.
"Why did he kill people?"
"Because he was crazy!"
"How do you know he was crazy?"
"Because he killed people!"
That's not how mental illness works. Some people, maybe through life experience or family, are shitstains. You don't get to armchair diagnose every killer as just being mentally ill. It trivializes people who have mental illness and furthers the stereotype that people who have mental health issues are dangerous killers.
psychodino
Neo Member
There are some things that cannot be forgiven, and this is one of them.
User Name Here
Member
Now he doesn't have to come to terms with what he did over time and he doesn't have to deal with the eventual guilt.
Mechanized
Member
I get the "let him rot" sentiment, but that doesn't always work. Look at Charles Manson. The death sentence erases him, everything he was and ever will be. He's gone and forgotten. A shit stain on history wiped clean. No crazy ranting, no pleas for forgiveness, no remorse or lack of. He's gone. As if he never existed. What greater punishment could there be?
Systolique
Member
Great psychological analysis, but I'm pretty sure not every shitstain goes out and kill 9 people.
And you're the one "trivializing" people with mental illness, you have to be pretty unstable to commit mass murder, and denying that makes no sense.
family_guy
Member
Movies, TV, books, and the internet will ensure he's never forgotten.
Audioboxer
Member
People most certainly do not forget because someone is dead. We all die, evil people included. Some naturally, others through being killed. No one forgets though, I can assure you. In fact many high profile cases often get brought up either to teach history or to try and make a point. Forgetting isn't what happens, people just move on with their lives, because as long as you're alive, you gotta keep going/trying/working/living. Time passing nulls the pain and memories, but it doesn't make anyone forget.
So no, it's not anywhere near as simple as execute, and history is wiped clean. I kind of get what you're arguing, but it then goes down that slope again of why don't we just execute all serious criminals so that they are forgotten?
I gotta say ideological reasoning doesn't always immediately equal mental health issues. Or, well, it's taboo to think like that as noted when people kill in the name of religion and some want to blast them as mentally ill, and others that they were ideologically indoctrinated. It's a messy messy messy situation, which requires a lot of work from the fields of psychology to try and diagnose and determine. It's not just as simple as saying you killed, you're mentally disabled. I mean sure anyone lifting a gun and killing an innocent on face value can be declared mentally unstable, but as always we need to unpack the individual and try and investigate motives/cause.
This is exactly how I see it.
Look at Richard Kuklinski. Never regretted anything, and became a kind of living legend in jail as a horrible psychopath. And when he got sick he was paranoid they wouldn't resuscitate him. He desperately wanted to live. Most humans do.
Death is the ultimate punishment.
The reason I don't support the death penalty is the fear of executing innocents. When someone is an admitted mass-murderer then fire away.
Double Donut
Member
I'm so flippy on the death penalty. Most times I'll say it should be outlawed because you never know when a conviction could be false, seeing as how it's happened many times before.
But then in extreme cases like this, where this is without a doubt the perpetrator, and for such a horrible crime... I don't see the problem at all with simply removing him from existence.
And all this "they're giving him the easy way out" stuff... come on. The human mind wants to live. Self preservation and all that. Being snuffed and wiped from the world is not "the easy way out".
But then in extreme cases like this, where this is without a doubt the perpetrator, and for such a horrible crime... I don't see the problem at all with simply removing him from existence.
And all this "they're giving him the easy way out" stuff... come on. The human mind wants to live. Self preservation and all that. Being snuffed and wiped from the world is not "the easy way out".
The sane human mind yes.
cpp_is_king
Member
Incidentally that's exactly what I believe. Not really concerned with what he wants though, just the definition of torture. Executing someone is an instantaneous process which can only be considered torture if it is drawn out and painful. That's why I support the guillotine. Quick and painless, guaranteed to get the job done with no mishaps.
FortuneFaded
Member
In an ideal justice system, I would like a punishment to fit the crime. Commit a hate crime against LGBT and you are forced to work for an LGBT charity. In this case, I would like Roof to be forced into servitude for black churches. Obviously security costs would be through the roof making this impractical and the perpetrators may not learn anything, but it would nice to know that the victims receive some benefit.
a very cute dog
Member
He deserves it but no matter what the state should not have the power to execute people.
The guillotine does not kill instantly and there's reason to believe it's not painless.
I'd generally like to avoid having slavery in America, thanks.
FortuneFaded
Member
If we are talking about the prison system, it's already there m8.
ugaboga232
Member
Not to bring up the free will debate again, but I figured I'd chime in as someone who has interviewed psych patients. You are indeed right that mental illness can be defined with circular logic via the DSM V and in cases like this.I would be hesitant at just labeling people as irredeemable shitstains when the neuroscience behind all of this makes no such distinction. Life experience can create mental illnesses (PTSD, etc.) as well so the line is very blurry indeed.
Still your solution is even more?
An ideal prison system should put rehabilitation as it's number one priority.
True, but that proposed solution would create an even greater conflict of interest for the parties involved. Want free labor? Just frame some random customer!
FortuneFaded
Member
Probably needs more thought.
cpp_is_king
Member
Alright let's brainstorm then. Dropping someone into an erupting volcano? Dropping a 40 ton block on them? A modified guillotine that has 150 different blades in various angles, particularly around the head area so that all brain function can be terminated immediately?
ugaboga232
Member
Already posted a while ago but inert gas asphyxiation is probably the nicest way, throw in some anesthesia or opiates if you are feeling nice.
He's extremely prolific, what are you talking about
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Overall? Yes. In this instance? Not really. Works out pretty well.
If you're snuffed out for good it's not torture because you can't torture something that no longer exists.
I think that his point is that he wouldn't be nearly as memorable if they killed him and didn't let him continue his antics for decades after he was locked up.
Maleficence
Member
Alt left hahaha
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Desecrating the body would be seen as cruel and unusual in a christian country.
Audioboxer
Member
Where do you personally draw the line in the sand for when to execute someone? That is the next big stumbling block for someone in favour of capital punishment. When is evil, evil enough to put someone down.
I guess one can argue not existing anymore is less than to at least have some life. Call it existential angst if you may, but it certainly plays a part why not everyone in prison is begging to be executed. To have something can be better than to have nothing. Alternatively, sure, to opt for nothing can mean escaping what you deem is a worse off life, whether an atheist or someone who believes your God will forgive you (or you maybe even think your God approves, see ideologically fueled murder above).
hogendaz85
Member
I read something the other day where he asked to not get the death penalty and told the jurors only one of them had to vote against it.
AlimNassor
Banned
He'd probably die in prison anyways. He already got the shit kicked out of him and guards just looked the other way. IIRC the guy that did it was called a hero and got released on bail.
Audioboxer
Member
Says he done it alone, not guards looked the other way. If that was provable said guards would probably be suspended. Like it or not they don't get to sanction who gets the shit kicked out of them or worse. I don't doubt it happens but prison staff aren't suppose to be employed based on what moral stances they will take. They're there to uphold order and protect inmates from other inmates.
Bail was paid to get him out as well
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dwayne-stafford-assaulted-dylan-roof-jail-vgtrn
But yeah he probably would face likely violent action in prison, no doubt meaning he would end up in solitude.
True. Imagine if the horror-show that was Ted Bundy was still knocking about some Florida prison today. His execution put to an end the utter circus that surrounded his trial, conviction and decade long effort to bargain victims remains for leniency.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked