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[LiquidSolid]

Awesome job on the first Souls retro, Brad and Jones (plus a smaller shout out to Ben and Blood, who I assume helped Brad edit the script). I think the only thing it was missing was emphasising how important importers were to getting Demon's Souls to show up on Atlus' radar. Region lock the PS3 and take all that buzz away and who knows if we ever would've gotten it, let alone the Dark Souls trilogy and Bloodborne. It's always the game I used to come back to when Nintendo fans would defend Nintendo's absurd region locking and look what's happened, Nintendo's finally woken back up.

Loved the group stream too. It went off the rails at times but was super fun. I really need to pick up Everybody's Golf.

 

[Mista Koo]

Does Sony's TGS pressers always start with a rap and end with a song? Had I known I would've watched them more.

Listening to the new Frame Trap and I have to strongly disagree with Ben on MvC3 and SF4 being gorgeous games. MvC3 has a cool art style but those character models are not good. And SF4 is just flat out ugly.
Go play those games again and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Both had nice shaders/rendering, MvC3 especially. But yeah they didn't look particularly great.

 

[Hasney]

Listening to the new Frame Trap and I have to strongly disagree with Ben on MvC3 and SF4 being gorgeous games. MvC3 has a cool art style but those character models are not good. And SF4 is just flat out ugly.
Go play those games again and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I always thought MvC3 was ugly, but I play USF4 weekly and I love the look of it.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Does Sony's TGS pressers always start with a rap and end with a song? Had I known I would've watched them more.

Nope, it's just been the last two years.

I finished Frame Trap earlier and do people think NetherRealm's games look good? Because they're the most successful fighting games around these days and personally, I think they're really ugly game. Their art style is ugly, their animations are janky as hell and up until very recently, their female characters looked fucking terrible.

 

[False Witness]

Nope, it's just been the last two years.

I finished Frame Trap earlier and do people think NetherRealm's games look good? Because they're the most successful fighting games around these days and personally, I think they're really ugly game. Their art style is ugly, their animations are janky as hell and up until very recently, their female characters looked fucking terrible.

I prefer the aesthetics of NetherRealm's games over pretty much any Japanese fighter. Granted, their female character designs did suck up until MKX for the most part, barring a few exceptions.

Plus, nobody can deny just how technically brilliant Injustice 2 looks. The lighting alone is stellar and the faces are amazing.

 

[UrbanRats]

Nope, it's just been the last two years.

I finished Frame Trap earlier and do people think NetherRealm's games look good? Because they're the most successful fighting games around these days and personally, I think they're really ugly game. Their art style is ugly, their animations are janky as hell and up until very recently, their female characters looked fucking terrible.

Their face tech for Injustice 2 is insane, and MKX in general looks pretty nice.
Their in-game animations though, like the fighting ones, are horrible, and they've always been.
From an artistic stand point, more than anything.

 

[luchadork]

first part of the souls retro was worth the wait. really really enjoyed it. was really well written and put together too. i was surprised at how much i liked it. actually feel like i learnt a lot about the game/series.

 

[Karu]

Yeah, the first part of the Retrospective was really well done. The Yoshida-bit always cracks me up.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Nope, it's just been the last two years.

I finished Frame Trap earlier and do people think NetherRealm's games look good? Because they're the most successful fighting games around these days and personally, I think they're really ugly game. Their art style is ugly, their animations are janky as hell and up until very recently, their female characters looked fucking terrible.

.
Injustice 2 is an incredible looking game, they aren't great at costume design at all though.

 

[Auctopus]

I think Liquid might be referring to the combat animations which I agree are weirdly janky and have a weird impact feel. Cutscenes animations are good, obviously.

 

[UrbanRats]

.
Injustice 2 is an incredible looking game, they aren't great at costume design at all though.

Fighting animations are still the stiff looking NetherRealm usual work, though.

Decent video on the subject.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I think Liquid might be referring to the combat animations which I agree are weirdly janky and have a weird impact feel. Cutscenes animations are good, obviously.

I do think the combat looks stiff though still visually 'good'
though that also plays into why I personally can't get into MK or beyond surface level Injustice... feels like molasses.

 

[sora87]

Think i'm gonna wait until the whole of the retro is out, really don't like the breaking it up into parts thing. I'm a binge watcher at heart, the kind that watches frame trap all the way through first time

 

[False Witness]

Their ninja designs have been excellent throughout the entire series (even Reptile).

 

[Ultimadrago]

(Latest) Frame Trap 38

I agree with Kyle on Skullgirls designs (he only brings up Filia and Cerebella but a few more are applicable) and their potential conflict with mass appeal despite success. Ben, being open about loving anime and the like, I certainly would expect to embrace Alex Ahad designs. That made it odd for me hearing his counterpoint to Kyle's thoughts about the general public response, while he's not wrong about the animations creating life and justification for some of the design quirks.

I found it even more weird that after Kyle clarified that it was his personal take, Ben immediately relieved with a "We're always going to have dumb opinions sometimes." spiel afterwards. It was pretty jarring.

Kyle can have some crazy opinions sometimes, but that wasn't one of them.

On the bright side, Ben's impressions on Divinity: Original Sin 2 have me intrigued. I tried the first one and really disliked it, but I'm hearing from posters on GAF that the overall package (NPC companions, combat, skill usage) is much stronger. I'm considering checking it out.

 

[Grayfox341]

(Latest) Frame Trap 38

I agree with Kyle on Skullgirls designs (he only brings up Filia and Cerebella but a few more are applicable) and their potential conflict with mass appeal despite success. Ben, being open about loving anime and the like, I certainly would expect to embrace Alex Ahad designs. That made it odd for me hearing his counterpoint to Kyle's thoughts about the general public response, while he's not wrong about the animations creating life and justification for some of the design quirks.

I found it even more weird that after Kyle clarified that it was his personal take, Ben immediately relieved with a "We're always going to have dumb opinions sometimes." spiel afterwards. It was pretty jarring.

Kyle can have some crazy opinions sometimes, but that wasn't one of them.

On the bright side, Ben's impressions on Divinity: Original Sin 2 have me intrigued. I tried the first one and really disliked it, but I'm hearing from posters on GAF that the overall package (NPC companions, combat, skill usage) is much stronger. I'm considering checking it out.

The "we're going to have dumb opinions sometimes" was meant to be a joke, but I don't think the delivery did a good job of that so I could definitely see how it would be jarring.

Between the Silicon stuff and not correctly stating the Divinity 2 is fully voiced, there are some things I wish I could change about the last episode.

 

[TheGreenArrow]

Just a heads up. Bayonetta is $12 on bundlestars right now.

Super tempted to pick it up after hearing some of the allies talk about it.

 

[Bahorel]

Just a heads up. Bayonetta is $12 on bundlestars right now.

Super tempted to pick it up after hearing some of the allies talk about it.

I still believe the bayonetta 1 and 2 switch bundle is coming considering that tweet with the red and blue graphic. If you're a switch person I would maybe wait

 

[dickroach]

Just a heads up. Bayonetta is $12 on bundlestars right now.

Super tempted to pick it up after hearing some of the allies talk about it.

I'm playing it right now on the xbox. it's good, but it's HARD. really hard. just a heads up

 

[Ultimadrago]

The "we're going to have dumb opinions sometimes" was meant to be a joke, but I don't think the delivery did a good job of that so I could definitely see how it would be jarring.

Between the Silicon stuff and not correctly stating the Divinity 2 is fully voiced, there are some things I wish I could change about the last episode.

Thank you for clarifying. The lead up made it come off more dismissive to me than it was intended perhaps. As you've proposed respect of differing views for a while, maybe I was in the wrong for thinking that.

Nonetheless, another nice panel and discussion overall.

 

[farisr]

Fun to see that at least one of the allies shares (shared) somewhat similar sentiments about FF7.

FF7 is the only game I've ever played that made me stop playing solely because of the graphics. However unlike Jones, this wasn't because I was coming from having played another FF game and I had thoughts on how a FF game should look like. FF7 was the first Final Fantasy, and the first RPG I ever played. One of the first PS1 games I played as well.

 

[Hasney]

Fun to see that at least one of the allies shares (shared) somewhat similar sentiments about FF7.

FF7 is the only game I've ever played that made me stop playing solely because of the graphics. However unlike Jones, this wasn't because I was coming from having played another FF game and I had thoughts on how a FF game should look like. FF7 was the first Final Fantasy, and the first RPG I ever played. One of the first PS1 games I played as well.

Did you come to the PS1 late and already had better examples of graphics, or was it more the art style? I remember being utterly blown away when I rented FF7.

 

[farisr]

Did you come to the PS1 late and already had better examples of graphics, or was it more the art style? I remember being utterly blown away when I rented FF7.

I got the PS1 in 1997. I was being blown away by PS1 games left and right. Really did not like FF7's graphics & artstyle.

 

[dickroach]

I remember going into Final Fantasy aol chatrooms back in the PS1 days, and the sentiment among the older people (and I'm real young at the time, so I'm talking anyone over 18 probably) was that FF7 was an abomination because it wasn't a real Final Fantasy game.

 

[Servbot24]

I found it even more weird that after Kyle clarified that it was his personal take, Ben immediately relieved with a "We're always going to have dumb opinions sometimes." spiel afterwards. It was pretty jarring.

"Dumb" opinion just means an opinion where internet nerds will call you dumb. I.e. not liking LttP or something like that. If everyone's favorites games where SMW, OoT and TLOU, that wouldn't be very interesting or allow for new perspectives to be talked about, and thus it would be bad for business as Kyle said.

 

[Hasney]

I got the PS1 in 1997. I was being blown away by PS1 games left and right. Really did not like FF7's graphics & artstyle.

Fair enough, I think it was the overhead view while coming down the steps of the opening powerplant and the lighting of the church where Aries was, just taking a knee like Kyle does in VR and adoring it. First RPG for me as well outsode of western stuff on the Amiga. Sure, the character models were rudimentary, but the backgrounds amazed me.

Trying to think what else we owned prior to it other than Tekken and Ridge Racer to try and give me a frame of reference, but 20 years is a long ass time!

 

[Hasney]

I remember going into Final Fantasy aol chatrooms back in the PS1 days, and the sentiment among the older people (and I'm real young at the time, so I'm talking anyone over 18 probably) was that FF7 was an abomination because it wasn't a real Final Fantasy game.

Ha, I had the opposite because I was in FF7 specific rooms. Hell, I started a new screen name of Barret012

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Anyone doing the neogaf souls retro thread or should I make one?

There won't be any fancy graphics, but I'll try to do my best. Unless someone really wants to do it justice.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Welcome to the Easy Allies retrospective on the Souls series (Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Dark Souls).

Without further ado, Easy Allies brings you

The Souls Retrospective - Part I - Through the Fog

Thanks to a young director, a project that seemed doomed to fail instead leads gaming down a dark, yet rewarding new path.
Written by: Brad Ellis
Video Edited by: Brandon Jones

Part 1


Look forward to more retrospectives going through each of the Souls games.

If you are interested, their previous retrospective looked at the Deus Ex series.

Deus Ex Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvbkwjk9ML8&list=PLwa6fmqvU-4G0XUkBhKdm5naCD76lwEz0

Deus Ex Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSrYBDajRp0&index=2&list=PLwa6fmqvU-4G0XUkBhKdm5naCD76lwEz0



You may remember their retrospective series when they were formerly Gametrailers. You can find a link to the archive playlist of their former retrospective videos here.


The retrospectives videos were only possible because of Easy Allies Patrons. Check out their Patreon page to see how you can help them make more.

Lastly, come visit the Easy Allies community thread!

 

[Uno Venova]

pull the trigger mikey

 

[Mikey Jr.]

pull the trigger mikey

Ok, great. Just gonna clean it up a TINY bit more.

edit: its up.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1435665

 

[ASilentProtagonist]

DeS still looks great.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

DeS still looks great.

Is online still up for demon souls? Because it looked like Ben was in there playing.

 

[jett]

Is online still up for demon souls? Because it looked like Ben was in there playing.

I guess all those threats of killing the servers were a bunch of bull.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Man this episode of TTE was pretty wild!

 

[LiquidSolid]

I think Liquid might be referring to the combat animations which I agree are weirdly janky and have a weird impact feel. Cutscenes animations are good, obviously.

Yeah. Their facial animations are top notch, it's the gameplay animations that look terrible.

And as for my other complaints, there's just something about NetherRealm's aesthetic that looks off to me. It's most noticeable in their original character designs, which still tend to look like something out of a 90s comic book.

Fair enough, I think it was the overhead view while coming down the steps of the opening powerplant and the lighting of the church where Aries was, just taking a knee like Kyle does in VR and adoring it. First RPG for me as well outsode of western stuff on the Amiga. Sure, the character models were rudimentary, but the backgrounds amazed me.

Trying to think what else we owned prior to it other than Tekken and Ridge Racer to try and give me a frame of reference, but 20 years is a long ass time!

Phantasy Star IV was my first RPG (Shining Force 2 was my second, FFVII my third) and I had similar impressions. The backgrounds, cinematic story and soundtrack blew me away. And while the character models may look ugly these days, for the time I thought they were great.

 

[ASilentProtagonist]

Just finished part 1 of the souls retrospective. Script felt a bit rough at some points. Overall it felt like an overview video throughout. There wasn't much new that I learned about the game. With previous retrospectives, I felt a more behind the scenes vibe with lots of interesting info on development such as design stories behind certain levels.

The video felt a bit rushed. It seemed that Brad had a bit of trouble writing the script as this came out a bit later than it was supposed to. Not meaning to be a dick here btw.
Love & Respect.

Now to watch the Matthewmatosis commentary for the 4th time =P

 

[Hasney]

Just finished part 1 of the souls retrospective. Script felt a bit rough at some points. Overall it felt like an overview video throughout. There wasn't much new that I learned about the game. With previous retrospectives, I felt a more behind the scenes vibe with lots of interesting info on development such as design stories behind certain levels.

The video felt a bit rushed. It seemed that Kyle had a bit of trouble writing the script as this came out a bit later than it was supposed to. Not meaning to be a dick here btw.
Love & Respect.

Now to watch the Matthewmatosis commentary for the 4th time =P

Brad was the one writing the script and in total, it's 15,000 words which they were saying is about 10 reviews or so. There's a lot more to come.

 

[Bloodworth]

as this came out a bit later than it was supposed to

No worries about providing some honest feedback, but this did come out exactly when we said it would.

 

[Karu]

Holyshitballs, Tabletop. What a dicey episode haha. Great one.

Edit: Oh, that ending bit, huh.

 

[_Ryo_]

Wow. That episode of Tabletop was fucking crazy.

 

[Visceir]

Been a big fan of TTA/TTE but haven't really enjoyed Ben's DMing much, seems more like rather than setting up a fun sandbox/world for the players he just wants specific things to happen and disregards d&d rules and bends the world in whatever way he wishes to achieve those moments.

Things have gotten a bit too fast and loose, haven't really cared much with where things are going and often the off-topic song and movie jokes/banter gets a bit too much.

This last episode's retcon was also really bad, just cheapening death and any kind of actual consequences. Could have at least made the effort to re-record the part to hide it away instead of just adding that filler cop-out to the end.

 

[Hasney]

Just finished Tabletop and HOLY SHIT. Amazing.

 

[UrbanRats]

I'm playing it right now on the xbox. it's good, but it's HARD. really hard. just a heads up

Contrary to something like Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta is as hard as you want it to be.
Meaning, if you don't care about getting stone trophies left and right, the game is forgiving enough, so that you can still finish the game and have fun spamming attacks.
If you do want to get serious, the skill ceiling can get very high.

It's the best approach to difficulty in my opinion, because it remains accessible, without sacrificing depth.

 

[ShadyK54]

Been a big fan of TTA/TTE but haven't really enjoyed Ben's DMing much, seems more like rather than setting up a fun sandbox/world for the players he just wants specific things to happen and disregards d&d rules and bends the world in whatever way he wishes to achieve those moments.

Things have gotten a bit too fast and loose, haven't really cared much with where things are going and often the off-topic song and movie jokes/banter gets a bit too much.

This last episode's retcon was also really bad, just cheapening death and any kind of actual consequences. Could have at least made the effort to re-record the part to hide it away instead of just adding that filler cop-out to the end.

Real D&D.

Edit: Great episode, btw.

Spoiler

Pomper & the vomit

was hilarious.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I don’t mind Ben reigning things in some on TTE. He tried to give them a sandbox and they walked off the edge....in separate directions...multiple times.

 

[sinxtanx]

TTE can get a bit out of hand like that

Ben just put a post-it on the inside of your DM wall that says "stop rolling around"

 

[Grayfox341]

Been a big fan of TTA/TTE but haven't really enjoyed Ben's DMing much, seems more like rather than setting up a fun sandbox/world for the players he just wants specific things to happen and disregards d&d rules and bends the world in whatever way he wishes to achieve those moments.

Things have gotten a bit too fast and loose, haven't really cared much with where things are going and often the off-topic song and movie jokes/banter gets a bit too much.

This last episode's retcon was also really bad, just cheapening death and any kind of actual consequences. Could have at least made the effort to re-record the part to hide it away instead of just adding that filler cop-out to the end.

I don't think the retcon was handled well. Totally admit that. The whole situation could have been much better.

While I make a ton a lot of mistakes, I don't completely disregard the rules. I try as best I can to follow them and admit when I've strayed outside. The caveat is that sometimes things are bent if it's a nebulous situation or to move things along. I don't think that's bad.

I also don't know how the players lack freedom. While there are certainly times I intentionally move the story along, I want them to make it their own experience. The fate of Yogalla and Law is a testament to that I think. As well as the negotiations between characters. The Black Rose was made on the fly with Brad and has become an essential story element.

I try to make an entire world with a unique storyline as interesting and fun as I possibly can. It's pretty difficult. Especially when the players have so much power to care or not care about whatever they want, as they should.

 

[Cade]

I don't think saying Ben is railroading TTE is accurate or fair, considering the amount of insane things we've seen happen purely from player agency. The retcon might be iffy from a viewer's standard, but people who play D&D know that sometimes you have to walk something back if you messed up, and players should be open-minded and realize that DMs are human and thus err occasionally. Does there seem to be an overall plot to TTE? Yeah, but that's the mark of a good D&D game that you work together with your players to create a story. (Also, it can't really cheapen death if Terese would only be unconscious if she took the full damage and Ben had already said Byal would be down there so.)

I also don't really think saying Ben disregards the rules is fair either, DMs are actively encouraged to change rules and run the game their own way, and any time Ben changes something or walks back something he usually explains why.

Obviously my input is just the same as any other internet commenter/D&D player, but I DM frequently and know there've been times when I had to talk to my players like "This was unfair to you/I messed up a rule," etc.

(Re: off-topic banter, that's just what's going to happen when your players are all friends outside of the game too, and when people get into the game they forget they're also recording a show while they play a game with their friends).

Just my two cents, L&R everybody

 

[Visceir]

I don't think the retcon was handled well. Totally admit that. The whole situation could have been much better.

While I make a ton a lot of mistakes, I don't completely disregard the rules. I try as best I can to follow them and admit when I've strayed outside. The caveat is that sometimes things are bent if it's a nebulous situation or to move things along. I don't think that's bad.

I also don't know how the players lack freedom. While there are certainly times I intentionally move the story along, I want them to make it their own experience. The fate of Yogalla and Law is a testament to that I think. As well as the negotiations between characters. The Black Rose was made on the fly with Brad and has become an essential story element.

I try to make an entire world with a unique storyline as interesting and fun as I possibly can. It's pretty difficult. Especially when the players have so much power to care or not care about whatever they want, as they should.

Mainly just bothered by the lack of any sort of map, which causes enemies/distances/locations to get constantly shifted around and being made suitable to what you'd seemingly like to happen next. Turns getting messed up and enemies getting random turns and chances to inflict attacks. Seems to also always take way too much valuable time to clumsily explain everyone the locations and positions of enemies and their own characters.

Spoiler

Best case scenario for the fall would have been letting Therese banish herself out of panic. Could have made the 'another place of existence' time work like it does in DBZ hyperbolic time chambers and made that 1 min last hours for Therese. Let her face her inner demons and the 'father' and then come back stronger than ever, visibly changed. /fanfic

Why did the banish fail anyway? Them trying to explain it got overly complicated, but eventually Ben said roll 11 or higher and Ian got a 13. Needing such a high roll to cast a spell on yourself that you're not resisting seems unreasonable, but I guess this is just nitpicking.