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[Kleegamefan]

I just saw the original post and thought it was pretty damn funny. A guy who has been blatantly trolling 360 since the begining (xbux 360, euro bomba, ect), one who knows more about sales data than 99% of the posters here, pulls these numbers out of another thread and creates this one under the guise of confusion and concern. I realize people play games like that all the time on message boards but he did such a horrible job at it. :lol

I browse the media create thread (JAP) and the NPD threads(NA) but I honestly don't know very much about EU sales...


Duce....I am not trying to start anything with you, OK.....you might have a problem with me because I am a Sonybot (and an admitted one at that) and I can live with that....but....still, I *actually* am curious about EU sales for more than just Xbox 360.....you may not believe that but its true...

Do you know of any reliable EU sales outlets like Media Create or NPD that we can quickly and easily access??

I sure dont :/

 

[Striek]

u do really want me to search and find your posts from 3-4 months back referring to 360 as abomba in europe?

Even back then we already had the first glimpses of the 360 as la bomba of Europe though.


Personally I do not think the 360 is underperforming at all, I just think the weight of expectations is clouding peoples judgements (see: PSP).

 

[Kleegamefan]

u do really want me to search and find your posts from 3-4 months back referring to 360 as abomba in europe?

Why would I care?

Spoiler

make sure you don't live in a glass house, though

 

[Kleegamefan]

About $60-$70.

Damn, thats pretty pricey.....PS2/Xbox/GCN games here are about $49 max....

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's called Sonyland for a reason.

 

[puebla]

I think a lot of people in this thread are underestemating the cost factor as well as the reduced adoption of HDTV's in Europe as compared to NA. To assume that Sony is going to take Europe by storm under these factors at a higher price point then MS's is overestimating their position, imo.

While MS certainly has had it's problems in Europe and some of those problems, including lack of software, are contributing factors to less the stellar sales, I think as a general rule the number of consoles sold per year will be quite less then it was for the last generation and Sony isn't immune. The only X factor is the wii, if it gets the right bunch of software for the hardcore and new adopters alike they should do better then the competition thanks to the lower price point.

best post in this thread.

 

[BigBoss]

Remember folks, you're only supposed to post news when its about the PS3. You should know better Klee.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think the Euro numbers are more concerning than the Japan numbers.

I think this man has it right.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Remember folks, you're only supposed to post BAD news when its about the PS3. You should know better Klee.

Fixed

 

[Oblivion]

It's called Sonyland for a reason.

Sony discovered Europe? :O

 

[BigBoss]

Fixed

Thats what I meant to say, thanks for the fix. :lol

 

[svenuce]

You'll never see credible Euro sales figures because there is no "NPD" for Europe or Pal territitories.

Chartrack handles UK sales with reasonable sample coverage for purposes of extrapolation across the territory but it's a poor for extrapolation across Europe as a whole because of how different games and hardware perform in each territory (though it's still done).

GFK handles Germany/France/Australia and I believe Spain but with pretty poor retail sample coverage such that extrapolating any of their territorial figures across even individual countries would be poor (despite the fact that it's still done). Also, GFK's data costs a fortune.

Good, solid Euro data simply does not exist outside of each company's own internal figures provided those companies have direct distribution in each territory. Those that work through distribution in some territories take weeks to get "real" data back from their distributors.

So in short, I'm skeptical of any figures (good bad or otherwise) that are coming from any company except the company who's shipping the products in a given territory.

 

[sonycowboy]

You'll never see credible Euro sales figures because there is no "NPD" for Europe or Pal territitories.

Chartrack handles UK sales with reasonable sample coverage for purposes of extrapolation across the territory but it's a poor for extrapolation across Europe as a whole because of how different games and hardware perform in each territory (though it's still done).

GFK handles Germany/France/Australia and I believe Spain but with pretty poor retail sample coverage such that extrapolating any of their territorial figures across even individual countries would be poor (despite the fact that it's still done). Also, GFK's data costs a fortune.

Good, solid Euro data simply does not exist outside of each company's own internal figures provided those companies have direct distribution in each territory. Those that work through distribution in some territories take weeks to get "real" data back from their distributors.

So in short, I'm skeptical of any figures (good bad or otherwise) that are coming from any company except the company who's shipping the products in a given territory.

Chattrack & Gfk cover well over 90% of Western Europe. Much, much better than NPD. Sorry to say (for you apparently), but the numbers are pretty damn solid.

 

[Frankfurter]

You'll never see credible Euro sales figures because there is no "NPD" for Europe or Pal territitories.

Chartrack handles UK sales with reasonable sample coverage for purposes of extrapolation across the territory but it's a poor for extrapolation across Europe as a whole because of how different games and hardware perform in each territory (though it's still done).

GFK handles Germany/France/Australia and I believe Spain but with pretty poor retail sample coverage such that extrapolating any of their territorial figures across even individual countries would be poor (despite the fact that it's still done). Also, GFK's data costs a fortune.

Good, solid Euro data simply does not exist outside of each company's own internal figures provided those companies have direct distribution in each territory. Those that work through distribution in some territories take weeks to get "real" data back from their distributors.

So in short, I'm skeptical of any figures (good bad or otherwise) that are coming from any company except the company who's shipping the products in a given territory.

Do you have a source for that? It's not like GFK doesn't have a clue what they are doing, they basically have done that job (and still do it) with the official music charts every week for the 40 or so years.

Edit: Too late... ^^

 

[fresquito]

I think US people in general has a wrong vision on how the Xbox brand is seen in the world. You see in US sites and forums alike, people reporting on how Xbox360 will get the crown this generation, and from outside US, this sounds totally wrong, it's a whole different story here.

 

[<nu>faust]

I am not trying to start anything with you, OK.....you might have a problem with me because I am a Sonybot (and an admitted one at that)

/thread

 

[elostyle]

PAL TV is way better than NTSC TV so not many people have HDTV. Not to mention that for some reason HDTV stations aren't really available (because movie studios demand HDMI with HDCP for it). Plus, DLP TVs were never big in europe and are almost non-existant. People don't want to buy an expensive console that they can't use to its fullest extend and buying a new TV is a huge entry barrier. That's the 360's problem and it will be the PS3's problem too.

It doesn't help that LCD and Plasma TVs handle regular PAL programming like shit so that it looks way worse on your new TV than it did on your old tube.

 

[M_A_C]

I think US people in general has a wrong vision on how the Xbox brand is seen in the world. You see in US sites and forums alike, people reporting on how Xbox360 will get the crown this generation, and from outside US, this sounds totally wrong, it's a whole different story here.

Why? Do they not see that it is good hardware? Or is there just a bias of some kind?

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

PAL TV is way better than NTSC TV so not many people have HDTV. Not to mention that for some reason HDTV stations aren't really available (because movie studios demand HDMI with HDCP for it). Plus, DLP TVs were never big in europe and are almost non-existant. People don't want to buy an expensive console that they can't use to its fullest extend and buying a new TV is a huge entry barrier. That's the 360's problem and it will be the PS3's problem too.

I think you are putting way too much on people feeling they *have* to have an HDTV before they get a next-gen console, particularly when we are talking early adopters here. The 360's problem is that it's the next Xbox, when the Xbox brand just isn't that popular in Europe.

 

[fresquito]

Why? Do they not see that it is good hardware? Or is there just a bias of some kind?

No, Xbox360 games are too hardcore for the mainstream public. You cannot win over Europe with lots of war games.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Duce....I am not trying to start anything with you, OK.....you might have a problem with me because I am a Sonybot (and an admitted one at that) and I can live with that....but....still, I *actually* am curious about EU sales for more than just Xbox 360.....you may not believe that but its true...

:lol

 

[Mojovonio]

If the 360 comes out 3rd will MS' shareholders allow another money pit to be made?

 

[Bearillusion]

How much say do the shareholders really have anyway?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Here's some Euro gamers from GC discussing what systems they're interested in

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=12786

 

[Pseudo judo]

I think you are putting way too much on people feeling they *have* to have an HDTV before they get a next-gen console, particularly when we are talking early adopters here. The 360's problem is that it's the next Xbox, when the Xbox brand just isn't that popular in Europe.

The number of people who own a 360 and some sort of HDTV to play it on is incredibly high and is obviously a key contributing factor to purchasing the console.

 

[Mojovonio]

The number of people who own a 360 and some sort of HDTV to play it on is incredibly high and is obviously a key contributing factor to purchasing the console.

There's a lot more problems with the Xbox than the brand.

 

[Majmun]

Here's some Euro gamers from GC discussing what systems they're interested in

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=12786

PC,PC, Wii, Ps3, Ps3, Wii, FINAL FANTASY, PC

etc.etc :lol

Not love for Xbox/X360 though.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

The number of people who own a 360 and some sort of HDTV to play it on is incredibly high and is obviously a key contributing factor to purchasing the console.

Are you sure it's not the other way around, and owning a 360 is a contributing factor to owning an HDTV?

Anyway, how I see it is...

I think people with HDTVs will be more inclined to buy a console that takes advantage of that.

I think people who own a PS3/360 will be more inclined to buy an HDTV to maximise the potential of the console.

I think people who don't own an HDTV and are therefore put off owning a PS3/360 would be in a very small minority, especially within the early adopter crowd.

 

[Speevy]

I think the best explanation I received from my thread on this topic is that Europeans just don't want another console system.

Whether you like it or not, the Xbox and the Xbox 360 have the games that Western regions want to play. The lack of Buzz and Singstar aren't crippling the Xbox brand over there.

 

[Dante]

Here's some Euro gamers from GC discussing what systems they're interested in

:lol I don't think one of them mentioned 360, not only that but they seemed to hate it.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I really don't see how someone can hate Xbox 360 but want a PS3. They seem pretty identical to me aside from more Japanese titles.

What type of games do Euro gamers like?

 

[Amir0x]

I really don't see how someone can hate Xbox 360 but want a PS3. They seem pretty identical to me aside from more Japanese titles.

What type of games do Euro gamers like?

'hate' is a strong word, but you certainly answered your own question about why someone might prefer one system over the other

 

[Karma Kramer]

'hate' is a strong word, but you certainly answered your own question about why someone might prefer one system over the other

So it is the Japanese titles? I always thought Euro gamers like Western style games more... weird.

 

[Pseudo judo]

:lol I don't think one of them mentioned 360, not only that but they seemed to hate it.

None of them mentioned the PS3 either unless they were directly asked and most of them who wanted one admitted they could never afford one. They all seemed to be very much into their current generation consoles with 360 not being of any real interest and the PS3 being a pipe dream.

 

[Mojovonio]

:lol I don't think one of them mentioned 360, not only that but they seemed to hate it.

Exactly, the 360 only has one region it will do pretty well in (NA). Everywhere else is a lost cause.

The Xbox brand is not a very good one. It has no recognizable mainstream franchises, other than Halo, which isn;t for everyone.

Nintendo has Mario and Zelda, while Sony has many, like Final Fantasy, Jak and Daxter, Gran Turoismo, etc.

The reason why its not selling is that there's just not much interesting on it, and the new Sony console looms ahead.

 

[Amir0x]

So it is the Japanese titles? I always thought Euro gamers like Western style games more... weird.

it's a mix! PlayStation brand in general is known for its large overwhelming variety - it's a system with long lifespans and games that appeal to every age group and culture. These Europeans have a history with it, and because they have always received all the things they want from the PS brand (including uniquely awesome Japanese titles), it's no secret why they'd have an early preference. If PS3 fails to deliver on any level, I see no reason why it won't easily shift toward Wii or 360.

 

[Speevy]

Exactly, the 360 only has one region it will do pretty well in (NA). Everywhere else is a lost cause.

The Xbox brand is not a very good one. It has no recognizable mainstream franchises, other than Halo, which isn;t for everyone.

Nintendo has Mario and Zelda, while Sony has many, like Final Fantasy, Jak and Daxter, Gran Turoismo, etc.

The reason why its not selling is that there's just not much interesting on it, and the new Sony console looms ahead.

MS outsold Nintendo in Europe this past generation, and destroyed it in total console software sales.

 

[Dante]

None of them mentioned the PS3 either unless they were directly asked and most of them who wanted one admitted they could never afford one. They all seemed to be very much into their current generation consoles with 360 not being of any real interest and the PS3 being a pipe dream.

3 or 4 of them said they planned on getting a PS3. And about the same number said they couldn't afford it. They didn't say they didn't like it or weren't interested as they did with the 360.

 

[fresquito]

'hate' is a strong word, but you certainly answered your own question about why someone might prefer one system over the other

No, it's not because of japanese games at all. It's because the wide variety of games, that catter to a wide arrange of people.

I'm pretty sure that at MS quarters they are seeing Viva Piñata as the most important game for them this year's end, and for god reason.

 

[Amir0x]

No, it's not because of japanese games at all. It's because the wide variety of games, that catter to a wide arrange of people.

I'm pretty sure that at MS quarters they are seeing Viva Piñata as the most important game for them this year's end, and for god reason.

good job repeating what I said?

also:

Spoiler

"and for god reason"

:lol

 

[Mojovonio]

MS outsold Nintendo in Europe this past generation, and destroyed it in total console software sales.

Nintendo screwed up. They couldnt even get their big franchises out. From what I can see, it will be different this time.

 

[Majmun]

The Playstation brand just appeals to a broader audience.

People get pretty prejudice when it comes to Nintendo and Xbox. "Nintendo is kiddy and Xbox only offers action games."

With Playstation it's different. You get everything. Sony is also a genius by not chosing a mascotte for its platforms.

 

[fresquito]

good job repeating what I said?

also:

Spoiler

"and for god reason"

:lol

When I started replying your new post wasn't there, evil >_<

About Viva Piñata, I'm not talking about the game itself, but about the market segment they are aiming it to. They need to open new markets for them, and Viva Piñata will be mor eimportant in the big picture that say Gears of War, which will mostly sell to people already having or considering on getting a Xbox360.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

it's a mix! PlayStation brand in general is known for its large overwhelming variety - it's a system with long lifespans and games that appeal to every age group and culture. These Europeans have a history with it, and because they have always received all the things they want from the PS brand (including uniquely awesome Japanese titles), it's no secret why they'd have an early preference. If PS3 fails to deliver on any level, I see no reason why it won't easily shift toward Wii or 360.

Pretty much spot on.

European gamers know the PS brand. For over a decade it's given then what they want, so they trust the brand. Therefore it's just not enough for the Xbox/360 to give them the same thing. If you have two options that are virtually the same, you are going to go with the one that is familiar and that you are comfortable with. Now it's a question of whether that trust and familiarity is enough to get over the higher price.

 

[Mojovonio]

Pretty much spot on.

European gamers know the PS brand. For over a decade it's given then what they want, so they trust the brand. Therefore it's just not enough for the Xbox/360 to give them the same thing. If you have two options that are virtually the same, you are going to go with the one that is familiar and that you are comfortable with. Now it's a question of whether that trust and familiarity is enough to get over the higher price.

I think people are overreacting with the price.

 

[Amir0x]

heh... at what price would you say is high enough so that the reaction wouldn't be considered 'overreaction'?

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I actually meant, the higher price, compared to the 360.

 

[Mojovonio]

heh... at what price would you say is high enough so that the reaction wouldn't be considered 'overreaction'?

Personally, I think its too much. But it all depends on how Sony markets it. Take 3DO for example. It came at a time where consoles only played games. Now they can do almost all multimedia actions.

If Sony markets it to be worth the price, people wills till buy it regardless.

 

[Speevy]

Nintendo screwed up. They couldnt even get their big franchises out. From what I can see, it will be different this time.

Nintendo is in a perpetual state of disaster and triumph. If Nintendo is right and they can reach a market that doesn't even consider the more powerful 360, then yes, they'll get second in Europe and probably reduce MS to third worldwide.

Of course, if they do the same thing in Japan, Sony's in trouble.

 

[jimbo]

I don't mean to rain on the doomsdayer's parade, but I just have a question. If the 360 is selling around 80k in Europe right now, which is about 1/3 of what is doing in the US, isn't that about what the original Xbox was doing? And it's doing it without a immediate price drop a month afer launch, like that fiasco with the original Xbox. Or am I missing something?