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Fighting Games Weekly | June 30 - July 6 | Judge, Juri & EGsecutioner

R

Revven

Member
RockTurtle said:
fox dominates almost everything. it's not a knock on the character, it's just that it's boring at this point that top 8 is usually fox/falcos. Last evo was good with variety, but i can't watch most weeklies because of it.

plus thats my brother's main and i fucking hate it.
Click to expand...

Top 8s are not just Fox and Falco. Top 8 for SSBM has been very versatile at almost every major leading up to MLG/EVO. It just seems like there's a lot of Fox and Falco because some of the top players have one of them as a secondary and a lot of the A-tier players (like SFAT and Westballz) main one of them.


Let's look at a more recent major...

Get On My Level 2014 Top 8:

Mang0 (Fox/Falco)
Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
Mew2king (Fox, Marth, Sheik)
Kirbykaze (Sheik)
Duck (Samus)
DJ Nintendo (Fox)
Weon-X (Fox)
I.B. (Marth)

And of course there are bound to be Top 8s with a lot of spacies -- it'll depend on the region but Top 8s definitely aren't dominated by space animals. I mean, MLG Anaheim had this as its Top 8...

Mang0 (Fox/Falco)
Armada (Peach/Young Link)
Mew2king (Sheik, Marth, Fox)
PPMD (Falco, Marth)
Leffen (Fox)
Axe (Pikachu)
Hax (Fox)
Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)

And then CEO 2014 had this:

Armada (Peach/Young Link)
Mang0 (Fox)
Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
Mew2king (Marth/Sheik)
Plup (Samus)
Wizzrobe (Captain Falcon)
Fiction (Fox)
Colbol (Fox)

There is character variance in SSBM's top 8 for tournaments. This isn't me targeting you specifically, this is me making it so everyone knows this because I see it brought up a lot. Weeklies largely depend on the region as far as character variance goes. Something like Super Smash Sundays is bound to have a lot of spacies because it's the west coast, WC has most of the A-tier players that use a space animal. Meanwhile something like Smash @ Xanadu won't have as much space animal density, instead you're likely to see some more variance from players like ChuDat (who uses ICs) to Husband (who uses Marth) to Boss (who uses Mario, Luigi, Doc) to DP (who uses Falco and apparently used to live on the west coast, surprise surprise...) and so on.

As for Fox dominating everything (I assume you mean him winning overall), it is mostly because of the person playing him (Mang0) who is very consistent with the character. He's taken him to a level most other people can only dream to take the character. It used to be impossible for Fox to win a major overall because of how much the person playing him had to be consistent but nowadays Mang0 has been extremely consistent. The only majors he let slip out of his hands was SKTAR 3, Super SWEET, and CEO 2014. PPMD won SKTAR 3 with Falco and Marth and Armada won Super SWEET with Peach and Armada won CEO again with Peach. Consistency is super important in Melee and is what makes it so interesting to watch because you have no idea how good someone is on a given day.
 
L

Laconic

Banned
enzo_gt said:
Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be assists in their traditional sense. Could be a system where your character inherits traits of your support characters or they serve as modifiers.

MKX sparked an idea in my head that I thought was pretty cool: Each character (or franchise) could have 3 variations that you can place in any order and fight KoF style, with some combat mechanics balancing variation across characters (i.e. different bonuses for each position). Or maybe a transformation mechanic that costs meter with all 3 characters working . This would be a pretty awesome way to handle fan service, and possibly even feasible to produce if the game is F2P/heavily supported. The within-character mechanics would rationalize them not just being selectable individually (and looking pretty bad to casual fans thinking they're reusing assets even though they are).

Ryu/Evil Ryu/Denjin Ryu
Megaman/X/.EXE
Bison/Mecha-Bison/Rose?
Akuma/Cyber-Akuma/Oni
Various incarnations of Dante
Various LP suits
Frank/Chuck/Frank 3.0
Leon/Chris/Jake
Morrigan/Lilith
Rad Spencer/Super Joe/Female Commando
Joe/Silvia/Jet Black
Phoenix Wright/Miles Edgeworth/Apollo Justice
Rathalos/Rathian/Some other MH dragon

Or maybe 2v2 with a transition mechanic where you can set one as a primary and the second as an install w/bonuses tailored to create two playstyles.
Click to expand...

"One of these things, is not like the others... one of these things, just doesn't belong..."
 
O

Onemic

Member
Revven said:
Top 8s are not just Fox and Falco. Top 8 for SSBM has been very versatile at almost every major leading up to MLG/EVO. It just seems like there's a lot of Fox and Falco because some of the top players have one of them as a secondary and a lot of the A-tier players (like SFAT and Westballz) main one of them.


Let's look at a more recent major...

Get On My Level 2014 Top 8:

Mang0 (Fox/Falco)
Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
Mew2king (Fox, Marth, Sheik)
Kirbykaze (Sheik)
Duck (Samus)
DJ Nintendo (Fox)
Weon-X (Fox)
I.B. (Marth)

And of course there are bound to be Top 8s with a lot of spacies -- it'll depend on the region but Top 8s definitely aren't dominated by space animals. I mean, MLG Anaheim had this as its Top 8...

Mang0 (Fox/Falco)
Armada (Peach/Young Link)
Mew2king (Sheik, Marth, Fox)
PPMD (Falco, Marth)
Leffen (Fox)
Axe (Pikachu)
Hax (Fox)
Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)

And then CEO 2014 had this:

Armada (Peach/Young Link)
Mang0 (Fox)
Hungrybox (Jigglypuff)
Mew2king (Marth/Sheik)
Plup (Samus)
Wizzrobe (Captain Falcon)
Fiction (Fox)
Colbol (Fox)

There is character variance in SSBM's top 8 for tournaments. This isn't me targeting you specifically, this is me making it so everyone knows this because I see it brought up a lot. Weeklies largely depend on the region as far as character variance goes.
Click to expand...

....I'm seeing Fox everywhere in those top 8 results
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Scrub Mcgrubb said:
With all this Capcom All-Stars talk... interesting that Niitsuma was very active on twitter two days ago talking to Marvel fans- https://twitter.com/Ryota_Niitsuma

He officially "closed the curtain" on UMVC 3... whatever that means. Then stated Capcom is "still in the business of making fighting games". When responding to a question if he's working on a new fighting game, he said he hasn't decided on his next project yet.

So interesting... was kind of hoping all this time he was quietly working on Tatsunoko vs Capcom 2 or something. He posted in English specifically to the Marvel 3 community though, so maybe he and Capcom are in the planning stages of what to follow up UMVC 3 with.
Click to expand...

not so interesting: http://shoryuken.com/2014/07/02/pet...niitsumas-ultimate-marvel-vs-capcom-3-tweets/
 
R

Revven

Member
Onemic said:
....I'm seeing Fox everywhere in those top 8 results
Click to expand...

He's not dominating it though, at most there's 2 or 3 Foxes in a Top 8. That's really good for a game that's 13 years old. If a game was that old, I'd assume dominate would mean he takes up 75% of the Top 8, not 25%.

Don't get me wrong, Fox is definitely the best character in the game but to say that he fills up Top 8s where there's very little character variance outside of something like EVO 2013 is a little faulty if not exaggerating because of how much someone dislikes the character.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Revven said:
He's not dominating it though, at most there's 2 or 3 Foxes in a Top 8. That's really good for a game that's 13 years old. If a game was that old, I'd assume dominate would mean he takes up 75% of the Top 8, not 25%.
Click to expand...

The first top 8 result had 50% Fox, the second top 8 result had 50% Fox, and Ceo had 35% Fox. I dunno, I'd call that pretty damn dominant.

For comparisons sake Chun is dominant in 3S, but I don't think you'd see a 50% Chun top 8. Kokonoe is beyond dominant in BBCP and you don't see more than a 30% koko in top 8.
 
R

Revven

Member
Onemic said:
The first top 8 result had 50% Fox, the second top 8 result had 50% Fox, and Ceo had 35% Fox. I dunno, I'd call that pretty damn dominant.

For comparisons sake Chun is dominant in 3S, but I don't think you'd see a 50% Chun top 8. Kokonoe is beyond dominant in BBCP and you don't see more than a 30% koko in top 8.
Click to expand...

I guess, maybe I'm just used to how MK was in Brawl -- every Top 8 for that game has at least 5 Meta Knights or more. That's what I would consider dominating.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
Onemic said:
The first top 8 result had 50% Fox, the second top 8 result had 50% Fox, and Ceo had 35% Fox. I dunno, I'd call that pretty damn dominant.

For comparisons sake Chun is dominant in 3S, but I don't think you'd see a 50% Chun top 8. Kokonoe is beyond dominant in BBCP and you don't see more than a 30% koko in top 8.
Click to expand...

87.5% Chun rate was her usage at evo one year, IIRC.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Spuck-uk said:
KOF should be on Sunday and Smash on Saturday.

I hate that smash just flops in there and bores me to tears for houuurs between intersting games.

And lets face it, KOF was the most hype thing for the last two years running.
Click to expand...
I think the games on Sunday are there because they had the most amount of entrants. Smash has about triple the amount of entrants that kof has right now. So maybe if you and 700 of your friends signed up for kof you could have had your finals on Sunday.
 
S

Silky

Banned
Deckard Cain said:
I wonder how much longer people going to be in denial about how bad Ultra really is. It's way worse than 2012 was yet so many people are in that denial stage thinking things actually got better. Gameplay changes sucked, balance sucks, tons of glitches, game sucks.
Click to expand...

It's glitchy as all hell but I wouldn't say it sucks.

SolarPowered said:
Then we'll finally have a big 3D fighter on Steam... which really needs 3D fighters.
Click to expand...

I'd put a bet on TK making the jump to PC first and putting DOA5U on Steam.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Spuck-uk said:
KOF should be on Sunday and Smash on Saturday.

I hate that smash just flops in there and bores me to tears for houuurs between intersting games.

And lets face it, KOF was the most hype thing for the last two years running.
Click to expand...

KOF is already getting preferential treatment. It shouldn't even be an evo game with it getting turnout comparable to Soul Calibur.
 
S

Scrub Mcgrubb

Member
Silky said:
I'd put a bet on TK making the jump to PC first and putting DOA5U on Steam.
Click to expand...

I don't know... I remember Team Ninja suing DOA modders back in the day and shutting down their sites. I don't think they want the game on such an open platform as PC... but of course they did all that back in the Itagaki years, maybe Hayashi feels differently.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Horseress said:
All 5 new characters hurtbox are absurdly messed up, but man this is ridiculous
Click to expand...

Basically. I was tinkering with Ultra yesterday on a friend's 360 and god damn, some combos don't even work on Decapre!

Deckard Cain said:
I wonder how much longer people going to be in denial about how bad Ultra really is. It's way worse than 2012 was yet so many people are in that denial stage thinking things actually got better. Gameplay changes sucked, balance sucks, tons of glitches, game sucks.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. I wouldn't say the game sucks, it might be a bit stale. I'll be completely honest, Ultra has a life expectancy of around a year since Capcom has rehashed SFIV so many times. It eventually loses its glow.

A Pretty Panda said:
Justin claims he found "the cheapest wolverine mixup".
Click to expand...

What, a new overhead? I did discover something pretty crazy in facing someone yesterday. I don't know if its character dependent but I was able to go for a jump light in front of someone then pressed S, it didn't come out to continue the pressure but I drill clawed anyway and I ended up drill clawing the person from behind! It was a sick mix up.

Parallax Scroll said:
Maybe the new game is SNK vs Marvel
Click to expand...

I'd be down for anything right now that's a versus game.

Scrub Mcgrubb said:
All Combofiend said was the "curtain close" didn't mean the servers for UMVC 3 were shutting (which I never implied was an issue in my post). So yes, Niitsuma talking about Capcom making more fighting games and him being involved is very interested if you bother to read his other tweets from that day.
Click to expand...

This seems pretty plausible. If Niitsuma is recognizing the community again and talking to them, he is showing interest and keeping everything under wraps. But, how long would it take to make a fighter? 1-2 years at best? I don't know if Niitsuma would be interested in using Phanta Reid (if its called that, I just call it Panty Raid)?
 
F

Flying High

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Who is the most powerful fighting game character that has still been legal for tournament play?
Click to expand...

Vanilla Phoenix in MVC3, she was legal because you could still have a chance to win against her if you could hit your opponents point, snap her in and mix her up, and ALSO you could survive the LVL3 X-Factor Dark Phoenix mixup if you guess 100% right all the time against her.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Flying High said:
Vanilla Phoenix in MVC3, she was legal because you could still have a chance to win against her if you could hit your opponents point, snap her in and mix her up, and ALSO you could survive the LVL3 X-Factor Dark Phoenix mixup if you guess 100% right all the time against her.
Click to expand...

I think this is one of the better answers after SvC Zero.
 
L

Laconic

Banned
Flying High said:
Vanilla Phoenix in MVC3, she was legal because you could still have a chance to win against her if you could hit your opponents point, snap her in and mix her up, and ALSO you could survive the LVL3 X-Factor Dark Phoenix mixup if you guess 100% right all the time against her.
Click to expand...

Vanilla Phoenix is the Fox News of fighting game characters.
 
N

nycfurby

Dhalsim's Max CPM Emporium
SolarKnight said:
One could say Zero without even specifying which game's and it wouldn't be inaccurate really

I never really knew much about SvC competitively, but what makes that Zero THAT good though?
Click to expand...

his tiger knee dp x N was a infinite. you could even do ground dp into infnite dp lol.
tons of ways to set it up too. thats just the tip of the iceberg XD
 
P

Parallax Scroll

Banned
Onemic said:
you can be versus styled without TOD or super long combos. Look at the CvS series.
Click to expand...

I prefer vs games to be more reset-focused with shorter combos, but I'd like most of the mechanics from marvel 2/3 to stay intact. Maybe tone down hard knockdowns and OTGs to extend combos cause marvel 3 has too much of that.
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Flying High said:
Then when we are going to have CvS3 then? OR THE MOST WANTED MK VS SF? Or the FANBOY DREAM OF DC vs MAHVEL? MAYBE THE CAPCOM FIGHTING DREAM OF CAPCOM VS CAPCOM?
Click to expand...

image.php
 
L

Laconic

Banned
Parallax Scroll said:
I prefer vs games to be more reset-focused with shorter combos, but I'd like most of the mechanics from marvel 2/3 to stay intact. Maybe tone down hard knockdowns and OTGs to extend combos cause marvel 3 has too much of that.
Click to expand...

Or maybe just get rid of the comeback mechanics, and make the more absurd stuff actually require a semblance of finesse of execution... maybe timing, above and beyond " input as fast as possible", even?

I agree with your points, as well.
 
T

twozerotwo

Member
Spuck-uk said:
KOF should be on Sunday and Smash on Saturday.

I hate that smash just flops in there and bores me to tears for houuurs between intersting games.

And lets face it, KOF was the most hype thing for the last two years running.
Click to expand...

Wait, what!?!?

*Checks Evo schedule*

Goddamnit! I work that Saturday so I miss Injustice AND KOF.

Fucking lame. It makes me want to hate Smash but I know it's not their fault.
 
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