You'll be fine. They will always need to take newcomers into consideration for their extension and they will never expect them to grind their gear once they reach lv 60 before starting SB. HW's dungeons don't have any ilv requirement because of that, I except SB doing the same.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT3| Keniki Gauge Cost: 20,000
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You'll be fine. They will always need to take newcomers into consideration for their extension and they will never expect them to grind their gear once they reach lv 60 before starting SB. HW's dungeons don't have any ilv requirement because of that, I except SB doing the same.
You could always just take a screenshot of it and then try and recreate it that way.
it is already in effect
Oh really? Cool. Guess I'd better be getting ready to mosey.
Stone Ocean
Member
On one hand, dungeons fucking suck
On the other hand, EX roulletes will be even more boring.
On the other hand, EX roulletes will be even more boring.
SliceSabre
Banned
I can't tell if that's good or bad so I'll hold my opinion until we're a few patches in.
That sounds bad. But hey, maybe the new content will actually be more PoTD/Aquapolis quality than Diadem quality?
I felt like the "hard mode" dungeons in Heavensward were extremely under-utilized with the over reliance of the player base on ARF for tome farming. I barely ever set foot in Pharos Sirius, Hullbreaker HM or even St Mocianne after the patch where they were introduced.
I felt like the "hard mode" dungeons in Heavensward were extremely under-utilized with the over reliance of the player base on ARF for tome farming. I barely ever set foot in Pharos Sirius, Hullbreaker HM or even St Mocianne after the patch where they were introduced.
I don't get people's fascination with Aquapolis and PotD while alright was very basic and gated the access to actually fun stuff with nonsense proof run of 51-100.
And besides those we got Diadem and Veminion, both of which sucked. One of them sucked twice and the other sucked in double amount.
And besides those we got Diadem and Veminion, both of which sucked. One of them sucked twice and the other sucked in double amount.
Fascination is a bit strong of a word here. It's the only good (even if basic) and relatively long-lasting new content we got in 3.x. On the other hand, dungeons are dungeons.
I'll just elaborate so you better understand the fascination: Aquapolis is casual fun content that you can sort of run with just about anyone in your FC, or duo if you so desire. It's a good time waster and it's always been rewarding because it's always been updated with new (or older, hard to get) sought-after items. It's good content.
Stone Ocean
Member
Because they're they're the only side content I still do today. Sure they're not perfect but I have high hopes for their expansions.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
So basically Eureka better not be Diadem 3.0 or game's fucked.
(It will be Diadem 3.0).
(It will be Diadem 3.0).
It's okay they got valuable feedback from Diadem 2.0 letting them know the completely unpredictable and very informative fact that they player base didn't really want to FATE grind more. With this unbelievable revelation about the player base, Eureka can't possible be bad!
I think the second paragraph answers the first--They're something they introduced that was actually not terrible and not just twodungeonsoneraidoneprimalgo. They also more or less nailed the reward structure for both without making them a part of the mainline gear treadmill which basically never happens. Room for improvement (at some point just skipping to 150 should be an option) and all but at least it was something which is better than the nothing/flaming wreckage of most of their other swings for the fences.
I'm less baffled by trading one tomestone piñata dungeon for something new, and more worried that a.) the trade in 4.1 is potentially for Super Savage because that's just going to pit the player base against each other and and b.) how have they still not found a way to expand their content-making abilities this is nuts.
I think the second paragraph answers the first--They're something they introduced that was actually not terrible and not just twodungeonsoneraidoneprimalgo. They also more or less nailed the reward structure for both without making them a part of the mainline gear treadmill which basically never happens. Room for improvement (at some point just skipping to 150 should be an option) and all but at least it was something which is better than the nothing/flaming wreckage of most of their other swings for the fences.
I'm less baffled by trading one tomestone piñata dungeon for something new, and more worried that a.) the trade in 4.1 is potentially for Super Savage because that's just going to pit the player base against each other and and b.) how have they still not found a way to expand their content-making abilities this is nuts.
Diadem 2.0 map but you have to play Verminion to complete objectives and then you have to go through 10 correct Aquapolis rooms on racing Chocobos to get a non-zero chance for Emergency Mission on the final room which teleports you to the Diadem 1.0 map and the Emission Boss room is behind 30 Brachiosaurus.
Yikes at the dungeon thing.
If they have some Neverreap-tier dungeons, that will be one way to get a lot of people burnt out on the game fast.
Eureka better be fucking good because if it turns out into another Diadem, SB may be heading for a fucked opening.
The meat of these kind of games are the dungeons and combat; you can't just tell people to be like "don't worry about the 4-man content, you can do beast tribe dailies, crafting, and Lord of Verminion! That should be plenty for people to do (for 3 months)!"
If they have some Neverreap-tier dungeons, that will be one way to get a lot of people burnt out on the game fast.
Eureka better be fucking good because if it turns out into another Diadem, SB may be heading for a fucked opening.
The meat of these kind of games are the dungeons and combat; you can't just tell people to be like "don't worry about the 4-man content, you can do beast tribe dailies, crafting, and Lord of Verminion! That should be plenty for people to do (for 3 months)!"
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I liked chocobo racing, leave chocobo racing out of this!!
It's awkward though because EXDR dungeons meat in the same way that the dollar store ribeyes are meat. Technically I guess so but it's all kinds of sad.
My bigger concern isn't really one fewer set of new skins on hallway/boss/hallywa/boss/hallway/boss every six months, and more them openly positioning it as the new content requiring they take something away from people.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
"That'll cost a raid tier" except don't even have a raid tier to get rid of.
It's not good meat, this is true. But my main hang up is that we've been on a downward trajectory since 2.xx. I can cut the ARR dungeons some slack; they were providing 3 per patch and were attempting to find new things to do with the dungeon designs, hit or miss.
But since then, it has been a decrease of BOTH quality and quantity. And the design started to get formulaic that the team just started putting trash mob barriers everywhere so people can complete their hallways just "not TOO fast."
With the importance of 4-man content, they shouldn't even be taking anything away at all, let alone dangling mysterious new content that they have not informed us about, or content they have already screwed the pooch on more than once (diadem).
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
You can restart from 51.
Zomba13
Member
So next expansion will have 1 dungeon every patch that you will run every day for tomes...
If I had to do this I'd have 2 Dungeons at start, then patch in 1 and have the roulette be 3, then patch in 2 and remove the first two (still three) then patch in 1 and remove the old 1 and so on and so forth.
SE will likely just have you run the same 2 and then add in a 1 and make you just run that 1 until they switch to 2 new ones.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
For some people though, dungeons are the major content in the game- like people somehow did nothing but heroics and dailies back in wrath-era WoW throughout the entire expansion. And they could do that because it started with 12 and ended up with 16- we're going to start with 2 and end up with 9? It's not a great look.
I completely agree with this part. I've been firmly in the camp that would take a third difficulty of the raid tier over the mystery new content, in part because the playerbase turns in on itself incredibly easily when it's an out for holding the devs responsible. HW raid difficulty usually breaks down as Gordias and Midas being the fault of a section of the playerbase for calling Final Coil too easy, while credit for Creator is usually given to YoshiP for doing the 'right thing'. We turn on each other really easily, and then pitching this alongside needing time for 'new content' in 4.1 and the apparent Super Savage in 4.1 basically sets it up as one player group taking something from another. It's going to get ugly, especially since this is removing content from the one group they usually cover decently.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Eeeeeeeeeeh...
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Let's face it, in 2.x every dungeon became a «pull a thousand mobs and AoE the fuck out of them», every interesting mechanic in those dungeons were ignored and became the same dull process. Why put effort then, creating them?
The dungeon design became straightforward but it fits how players faces them, and in that sense, they work, but certainly we don't need dozens of them.
Those resources could diverted elsewhere.
The dungeon design became straightforward but it fits how players faces them, and in that sense, they work, but certainly we don't need dozens of them.
Those resources could diverted elsewhere.
Maybe, instead of just dropping the dungeons, they could actually evolve the dungeons somehow? Dungeons are an MMO staple arent they? Plus there's actually a lot that's good in them but the format is now showing wear.
While we are talking about new content I need them to add cool, new content in the zones. Theres been nothing since FATEs and hunts, both of which I enjoy. The zones in HW are barren and deserted and its depressing. I dont want to log in just to go instance hopping and that is the thing that is going to kill my enthusiasm the quickest when the new expansion shine wears off.
While we are talking about new content I need them to add cool, new content in the zones. Theres been nothing since FATEs and hunts, both of which I enjoy. The zones in HW are barren and deserted and its depressing. I dont want to log in just to go instance hopping and that is the thing that is going to kill my enthusiasm the quickest when the new expansion shine wears off.
I guess I'll still be playing FFXIV for about a week or two after every patch then. No way I'm going to go through the one of the few dungeons every day for tokens.
I honestly hate the endgame dungeon design in this game.
Yes, the first 1-3 runs are fun, since not everyone knows all the gimmicks etc.
Drops are usually useless, maybe good for glamour or some early ilv increases, but that's about it.
Trash mobs are there only to waste your time - you don't get experience, significant money, interesting drops, nothing.
At least PotD is randomized, which makes it a bit less boring.
I honestly hate the endgame dungeon design in this game.
Yes, the first 1-3 runs are fun, since not everyone knows all the gimmicks etc.
Drops are usually useless, maybe good for glamour or some early ilv increases, but that's about it.
Trash mobs are there only to waste your time - you don't get experience, significant money, interesting drops, nothing.
At least PotD is randomized, which makes it a bit less boring.
They did NOT put much effort into creating them, that's the whole point.
Dungeons in XIV are woefully uncreative.
I enjoy the boss fights in the dungeons and they are getting better and better over time. But the filler in between is really bad.
Boss fights are fun, because they don't drag on for too long and you have to actually focus on what's happening.
I would like to see them add something like WoW's mythic+ dungeons to this game. It should help with adding a bit of variety and challenge to aging dungeons.
With that said, I've been dying for them to change the end-game formula for this game some more. PotD shook things up quite a bit, but I'd like to see them do more. I'm so over roulettes and tomestone farming.
With that said, I've been dying for them to change the end-game formula for this game some more. PotD shook things up quite a bit, but I'd like to see them do more. I'm so over roulettes and tomestone farming.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I would be up for that - dungeons with more non-linear design that isn't just straight paths between bosses. I don't know how well that'd go over with a lot of the player base who want dungeons to be quick in-and-out content though.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
So let's go down the numbers:
Patch 2.1
Pharos Sirius
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
Patch 2.2
The Lost City of Amdapor
Halatali (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Patch 2.3
Hullbreaker Isle
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
Patch 2.4
Sastasha (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
Patch 2.5
The Wanderers Palace (Hard)
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
Patch 3.1
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
Pharos Sirius (Hard)
Patch 3.2
The Lost City of Amdapor (Hard)
Patch 3.3
Sohr Khai
Hullbreaker Isle (Hard)
Patch 3.4
Xelphatol
The Great Gubal Library (Hard)
Patch 3.5
Baelsar's Wall
Sohm Al (Hard)
Conclusion: WTF are they seriously telling us there's going to be even less Dungeons than what we got in Heavensward?
Munba
Member
Yes, that would be good and they should add also random treasures with glamour/tomestone/minions, and so on. More interesting, changing, fun and a bit longer dungeons. Not only a run from A to B(oring).
People would choose the shortest path with the best rewards and people would be kicked for wanting to choose any other path.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
And when they did put some efort, playerbase did everything they could to make it a pull train fest.
The playerbase is going to try to be as efficient about doing its mindless chores for allowance as humanly possible. That they chose to promote this as the official preferred method to EXDR (since per Yoshida these things should take 15 minutes which implies AOEfest) doesn't make them not responsible for creating the situation.
Make stuff actually be able to kill you. Add more details like the Baelsar's bards where things happen outside the norm and require a reaction outside the usual. Maybe try some dungeons with no trash and bosses that actually hit like bosses. Consider having dungeons sync everyone to a given iLevel so being current on gear doesn't put you 30 iLevels over the minimum they tuned it for. Do it to one of them, call it an Advanced Dungeon, have it reward slightly more times, and have roulettes spanthe entire expansion instead of just the most recent patch.
They could, you know, actually try. Or they could continue to make endgame dungeons low-risk Timesinks.
Oh no! People are trying to have fun with the game! Can't very well have that!
Also, I wouldn't say Brayflox HM was "effort".
The way to avoid people who want to run the quickest route would be to put incentives on the other paths. Crafting mats, specific gear from specific chests, extra tomes from one particular boss vs another, etc.
In T2 they made it so the boss had different abilities if you took different routes to get to him. Taking that and applying it to dungeons, and changing it up so that it doesn't just affect enemies but also the dungeon in general could be an idea.
Within the dungeon itself they can have progress to a certain point where then the party anonymously votes via some object in the dungeon which path to unlock (aka like party kicking). That won't prevent some people from leaving anyway if they don't get their choice, but at least the choices are kept anon.
If they do it outside the dungeon, they can make one dungeon with multiple branches to queue into that can be rolled in the roulette.
The question just becomes how much work has to be put into these things and whether or not it's feasible for development.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
And that's the point: Leave dungeon as low-risk easy fast way to get tomes/whatever, for people that just want the efficient fast way to farm, and create other content that is more varied and you don't have people bitching at other for wiping on hard bosses of for taking their time on that content.
I agree that endgame content needs an overhaul, not just through dungeons.
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