Support NeoGAF

[FunkMiller]

Both Genshin and Honkai are SP-driven games lol. Two of the most successful GaaS titles on the market today. Hell, Honkai doesn't even have any sort of MP meta as of now, it's pure single-player JRPG.

Speaking of GT7: GT Sophie, regular content drops and Sport Mode are the heart of GT7 long-standing appeal. Many can argue that GT7 is very light on pure SP content after GT5/6 SP modes. Polyphony is also updating menus from time to time and overall leaning into the virtual racing scene with a recent VR update.

People need to drop the sentiment that GaaS is only about engaging with other players. GaaS is a constantly live and evolving platform with added forms of monetization. It can be MTX (and GT7 has those), it can be gacha with limited banners (Honkai, Genshin), it can be premium content drops. But GaaS =/= Multiplayer. Genshin Impact is a single-player game 90% of the time, believe it or not.

Okay, well let's say GaaS is a game that is primarily designed to continually make gamers pay out for stuff.

I don't put GT7 in that category, because there's so much content that is available just for the sixty dollar asking price.

And it's not healthy for Sony to be pursuing a strategy that primarily exists to keep extracting money from a player's pocket, after they've bought a game.

 

[Topher]

Don't feed the trolls, Topher . You're better than this.

It's all well and good to have concerns, but at least let those concerns be based on real factual things, and not just pure conjecture in the face of evidence to the complete contrary. It just makes the concerns seem like they're rooted in pure neuroticism and nothing else.

Like, how do you take the content of a single State of Play and decide that this is now somehow, solely, encapsulating the entirety of Sony's first-party publishing strategy from now to forever?

It's entirely irrational.

It's like folks have the memory of a goldfish and think that Sony has never done a weak gaming conference or E3 before. Like... how long have ya'll be gaming?

A single weak (subjective) conference means nothing.

That showcase was Sony’s first in nearly two years. From a first party perspective, it was abysmal unless you live for Gaas games. All that supposed investment and we see jack shit if it. That is the factual basis for my opinion. And I said I hoped my concerns are unwarranted. I’ll happily say so if my concerns are proven wrong. Until then….they exist. If that bothers you then sorry, but there is nothing I can do about that.

 

[Bernardougf]

I already see people calling a major first party showcase (as named BY SONY), the first in two years, 1 hour plus, a "STATE OF PLAY" ... if this is not copium nothing is, and this copium is as strong as the xbox fans have been inhaling for about 10 years now

And talking about games never shown, never confirmed to be in active development against the ones there where chosen to be shown and ignoring the constant and very clear speech about changing the focus to live service games is just the hopium talking.

People like to enter in xbox threads and make fun of their fanbase for their infinite spin and denial of reality, well all this started somewhere, sometime ago and is enduring until now, and look and behold, you are acting just the same, spinning and denying, is time to take a good look in the mirror because hypocrisy is knocking on your door my friend.

 

[64bitmodels]

I'm a huge PS fan. But if they're holding back their games to accommodate eventual PC ports, then that's a bad thing.

a good thing- minimal effort and omega sales from PC guys who've wanted to play their games for years. The only issue is that they don't know WHICH games people want

 

[64bitmodels]

It's just insane that the whole narrative about Jim being king and Phil being washed up has now shifted to both being equally incompetent buffoons all because of a showcase that wasn't filled with unrealistic, ridiculous fanservice games. Now we're fucking Playstation dooming like their colors are green and their letters are X.

This is why GAF will continue getting disappointed at major gaming showcases, people want omega hype remakes and amazing new sequels only to get hit with the reality that gaming isn't like that anymore. You can't ask for once in a decade showcases every damn year..

 

[Bernardougf]

It's just insane that the whole narrative about Jim being king and Phil being washed up has now shifted to both being equally incompetent buffoons all because of a showcase that wasn't filled with unrealistic, ridiculous fanservice games. Now we're fucking Playstation dooming like their colors are green and their letters are X.

This is why GAF will continue getting disappointed at major gaming showcases, people want omega hype remakes and amazing new sequels only to get hit with the reality that gaming isn't like that anymore. You can't ask for once in a decade showcases every damn year..

So getting your hardcore fans together for your major showcase and showing games that they want and will buy is "ridiculous fanservice" ?

And you correctly diagnosed that game isnt like it use to be and this showcase was a reality check for this fanbase but at the same time you are shocked with the inflamatory and worried reactions from them ?

 

[Topher]

It's just insane that the whole narrative about Jim being king and Phil being washed up has now shifted to both being equally incompetent buffoons all because of a showcase that wasn't filled with unrealistic, ridiculous fanservice games. Now we're fucking Playstation dooming like their colors are green and their letters are X.

This is why GAF will continue getting disappointed at major gaming showcases, people want omega hype remakes and amazing new sequels only to get hit with the reality that gaming isn't like that anymore. You can't ask for once in a decade showcases every damn year..

Eh....that ain't it bro. This showcase didn't need to be a "once in a decade" showcase. I would have been happy with a really good showcase that told me what was going from the single player side of the house from Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch,etc. We didn't even get that. It was ridiculous.

 

[64bitmodels]

So getting your hardcore fans together for your major showcase and showing games that they want and will buy is "ridiculous fanservice" ?

the games that they want and will buy are dead IPs from years ago getting sequels and remakes that no one besides GAF will purchase. Ridiculous shit like Bloodborne 2 or MGS 6. Gravity Rush 3, LBP 4, another motorstorm, all this other BS. That's why i call it fanservice. It's there to appeal to US and no one outside of the forum. And why do you need to know what their internal studios are working on at the moment? They've earnt the benefit of the doubt. Whatever they show at the next showcase will be good.

And at the same time you correctly diagnosed that game isnt like it use to be and this showcase was a reality check for this fanbase but at the same time you are shocked with the inflamatory and worried reactions from them ?

It's a reality check we've been handed time and time and time again for the past 3 years. Every showcase shown since 2020, GAF has had some sort of problem with it. People have been getting disappointed for years now and yet we still come into every showcase with high expectations.
And a bad showcase/ GaaS initiative isn't cause for concern. Do you really think that the higher ups at Sony are going to undo a 10+ year streak of pure wins?

 

[MagnesD3]

I just hope I don't have to ask the question why should I buy a Ps6 next generation, Ive bought like 4 games for my Ps5 and only 2 are exclusive, the balls in sony's court and my patience with them is definitely running out.

 

[Bernardougf]

the games that they want and will buy are dead IPs from years ago getting sequels and remakes that no one besides GAF will purchase. Ridiculous shit like Bloodborne 2 or MGS 6. Persona 6, GTAVI, all this other BS. That's why i call it fanservice. It's there to appeal to US and no one outside of the forum. And why do you need to know what their internal studios are working on at the moment? They've earnt the benefit of the doubt. Whatever they show at the next showcase will be good.

It's a reality check we've been handed time and time and time again for the past 3 years. Every showcase shown since 2020, GAF has had some sort of problem with it. People have been getting disappointed for years now and yet we still come into every showcase with high expectations.
And a bad showcase/ GaaS initiative isn't cause for concern. Do you really think that the higher ups at Sony are going to undo a 10+ year streak of pure wins?

So all the games that made SONY and playstation what they are now and build all this huge loyal fanbase are BS ? Well .. thats some
New approach to this subject I'll give you that

 

[64bitmodels]

So all the games that made SONY and playstation what they are now and build all this huge loyal fanbase are BS ?

Well if you're going to ask for fun stuff at a showcase it could at the very least be new IP other than more sequels.

MGS and bloodborne are beloved yes but they're also DEAD. The most we're getting is a remake of the third game. People act like they're still some major brand new franchise when in reality Sony doesn't even consider them nothing more than another game to add to PS+. People unrealistically act for gigantic shit like that then complain and cry when (unsurprisingly) they're not in another bog standard showcase.

I don't consider them BS as i love Playstation classics myself but people have to understand that games like that will not be coming back for a long ass time

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I find it bizarre that Sony would jeopardise a highly successful strategy of first party single player games, in favour of chasing a high risk strategy of so many GaaS games. It's like they are blind to what the industry is so clearly telling them.

Are they expecting to sell consoles with GaaS games? Because good fucking luck with that, in a world where the biggest ones are played primarily on mobile devices. But is that what the Project Q shit is all about really? Trying to coax in the Gen Z crowd with a portable device they can play whatever bullshit take on Fortnite Sony are trying to develop?

None of it makes a lick of sense.

Yeah, none of what you just said made a lick of sense because that's not what is happening.

That kinda thinking though, at least explains why threads like these exist.

 

[rabbity-thing]

I agree. GaaS is the death of this industry. A creatively bankrupt subhuman unethical design that should be banned or heavily regulated.

If it makes you feel any better, I feel like GAAS is regulating itself to some degree. The genre will have a hard time becoming profitable by the majority of publishers/developers because of the very nature of the beast. Look, I had a friend at work who absolutely loved Apex Legends. And, y'know, as I moved from one game to the next, this guy never played anything else. Not knocking it, either. He loved playing Apex. That was his jam. The thing is, it's going to be borderline impossible to peel him away from Apex.

GAAS is all about continued engagement. The longer you have someone engaged, the harder it will be to get them to leave what they've spent so much time and effort (and money) on. Conversely, when Konami releases its Silent Hill 2 remake, it will be piggybacking off of the success of horror games like Resident Evil. Unless an RE game is coming out within launch, those two series won't be directly competing. They will share the same market because neither game demands that the other game is overlooked. Additionally, each game offers a finite experience that offers entry points for new titles as each game is completed. When Bungie's Marathon comes out, though, it won't be sharing the market with other GAAS. It will actively need to take the market. GAAS needs full engagement to succeed and, going my friend's experience with Apex, full engagement means only one title gets to be fully engaged.

The GAAS market is already saturated and it is a market that thrives off of making each game the only game. Trying to break into that market is lunacy for Sony. Maybe they should try one game a year. Like buying a lottery ticket. Makes sense to try, but don't put a focus on it when you've got something you're already successful at.

 

[Clear]

Still baffled by the sheer amount of anxiety that the showcase has cause some of you guys when there's so much stuff outside of what was shown already announced.

I can understand being displeased by what was (and wasn't) shown, but acting like its some sign of impending doom is way out there!

Setting up a GaaS pipeline requires *dedicated* studios. The entire notion is that there will be regular content updates and that in turn demands constant development and planning, on top of an operations team that oversees the general day-to-day smooth running of the service.

So its not a one-and-done deal, if a studio gets committed to it you may as well forget about them doing anything else. This is probably why Factions 2 ran into problems; ND has experience running online components, but no way would they have enough staff to maintain a full-blown GaaS. The plain truth is this is likely what Bungie highlighted - they can do what they do because they have over 800 employees!

I strongly doubt Sony would be willing to sacrifice one of their crown-jewel single-player teams to a long-term commitment on a spin-off project. So, most likely they simply pulled in other people/groups from outside to support its development, and when things have gotten cloudy they were simply reallocated back into the general Playstation Studios support resource pool while the project gets reorganized.

They have a "star" creative in Neil Druckmann, and so they are going to want to keep him happy or else he'll simply go somewhere else and land his new employers a PR coup. Meaning that I highly doubt the ND train is going to stop rolling in its usual fashion any time soon.

The bottom line is pretty simple; Sony do not need more tentpole AAA single-player studios. They have maintained a steady stream of first/second-party exclusives for the last few years with their existing portfolio and have reaped the rewards of that. Doing more of the same isn't going likely to improve their performance much, so they have had to look outside that business plan to go to the next level. VR, PC-ports, and yes, GaaS all lie outside this area of core competency and they have responded to this by making acquisitions specific to each of these fields.

 

[KimDongHwan]

Also, for the last few years fans have been complaining that Sony first party games all feel the same. Well, they're clearly trying something very different now.

Mmm what? You well know that when people say we want something different they are not talking about any other tired genre, so don't act like we are punishing Sony for doing what "we all have been asking for".

Like what's Sony's take on JRPG, can they make one? Can Sony make a fighting game?, Can they make a Tactics game ? Etc, no like "can Sony try making a gacha game?" "Can Sony make a micro transaction oriented game?"

 

[Doom85]

All right, at this point this needs to be a meme or something:

Helldivers 1 developers: Hey guys, we’re making Helldivers 2!
Internet drama queens: OMG, Sony is doomed!
Sony:

And then Nintendo walks up to Sony and pats them on the shoulder:

 

[Shubh_C63]

I would have been happy with a really good showcase that told me what was going from the single player side of the house from Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch,etc. We didn't even get that. It was ridiculous.

What if you did got a teaser for the next ND SP single player projects and then no news of release date for another year ?
Then we of all people would had said don't show games if they're releasing 2 years later.

We KNOW they're working on games, and we KNOW they will show when its ready. The Last Guardian was the only time where people had right to ask/demand an explanation, other than that Sony studio knows their shit right.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Remember when we heard the same concerns about them porting their games to PC?

True, but they purchased a studio to handle that. I’d also say porting an existing game over isn’t tying up a studio the way creating an entirely new ip would.

Sony bought a couple studios to do GaaS, but I’m surprised they’re allowing their top studios to do those types of games as well. Especially when they didn’t even put their top teams on handheld development back in the PSP/Vita days.

I don’t think there’s reason for concern, but I do think aiming for twelve games right off the bat is a bit much. I would think they might cannibalize each other.

 

[Topher]

What if you did got a teaser for the next ND SP single player projects and then no news of release date for another year ?
Then we of all people would had said don't show games if they're releasing 2 years later.

We KNOW they're working on games, and we KNOW they will show when its ready. The Last Guardian was the only time where people had right to ask/demand an explanation, other than that Sony studio knows their shit right.

We also know that their investment in "traditional" games has dropped in 2023 and won't be back up to previous levels until 2025. Meanwhile, investment in Gaas is eclipsing the games that made many of us PlayStation fans to begin with. And if Sony has nothing to show from their single player devs that won't be released for another two years then that makes my point for me.

True, but they purchased a studio to handle that. I’d also say porting an existing game over isn’t tying up a studio the way creating an entirely new ip would.

Sony bought a couple studios to do GaaS, but I’m surprised they’re allowing their top studios to do those types of games as well. Especially when they didn’t even put their top teams on handheld development back in the PSP/Vita days.

I don’t think there’s reason for concern, but I do think aiming for twelve games right off the bat is a bit much. I would think they might cannibalize each other.

I agree, but I think what you've said is reason for concern. My fear is that Sony is retooling many of their top studios for this Gaas push. Sony always puts their top teams on the major releases. TLOU, Spider-man, GOW, etc. So is that still the case? That we don't know. How much talent is being diverted into Gaas?

 

[AmuroChan]

Mmm what? You well know that when people say we want something different they are not talking about any other tired genre, so don't act like we are punishing Sony for doing what "we all have been asking for".

Like what's Sony's take on JRPG, can they make one? Can Sony make a fighting game?, Can they make a Tactics game ? Etc, no like "can Sony try making a gacha game?" "Can Sony make a micro transaction oriented game?"

Who is we? And when did I say anything about "punishing" them. Sony fans clearly aren't punishing them. PS5 is outpacing the PS4 in sales. Please don't speak for ALL PlayStation fans. I am one of them, and you do not speak for me. Can Sony make a JRPG or fighting game? Maybe, if they acquire the right studio. I would love a great first party JRPG. That's my favorite genre, but I also live in reality and see that they don't have an in-house studio currently that has a JRPG pedigree. So the best they could do was to secure a great JRPG as an exclusive, and they did with FF16. I rarely play live service games, but I can recognize the business incentive to explore that genre. MLB is one of Sony's highest earning games, both in units sold and revenue generated from its live service elements. You mentioned a gacha game. What is Sony's biggest cashcow in the mobile space? A gacha game that has made some $5 billion in revenue. Back to your original question, a first party JRPG or fighting game would be great, and maybe that will come in the near future. There're always rumors swirling about Sony acquiring S-E or Capcom. And if they do acquire one or both of those publishers, then there's your first party JRPG and fighting games.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Let them do it, once they realize that money is bleeding they ll stop this bs

 

[mcjmetroid]

I think it's ridiculous.

Sony should stick to what they're good at. First party story driven games that nobody else has the balls to do.

They should be concentrating on selling their PlayStation consoles and possibly their playstation live subscription service by having quality single player games to add variety to their catelogue.

Just get bungie to make a new live service game and see if it pans out for you if you want to go down that road. Don't pivot your entire division to it for Christ sake.

This reminds me of Nintendo trying to pivot their entire games division to casual games during the wii era. Fans were rightfully pissed though some still defended them until they didnt, yes they still released the odd quality nintendo games here and there but it was clearly not the focus and people gave up on them then.

It's such a shame MS bottled this gen so far.. Sony really could have used a kick up their arse.

Part of the role of a first party should be to create games nobody else is to fill the gaps on your console. Everyone else is doing live service games. What can you do that they can't? Not to mention you'll only be able to release your live service games on just playstation and pc. Third parties have the advantage of being able to release on all platforms. It's really not a first party developers game.

 

[KimDongHwan]

Since when creating a new game in a different genre meant you need to "acquire" a different company with the expertise. Guerrilla Games were doing almost only Kill zone (FPS) and they just decided to make an RPG and try it out and then we got Horizon and it payed off. I feel the same could happen with other studios, i don't see a world where all the talent from naughty dog cannot create a game outside story driven third person shooter and come out great.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I agree, but I think what you've said is reason for concern. My fear is that Sony is retooling many of their top studios for this Gaas push. Sony always puts their top teams on the major releases. TLOU, Spider-man, GOW, etc. So is that still the case? That we don't know. How much talent is being diverted into Gaas?

Unless they’re trying to evolve some of their franchises into GaaS models.

I could easily see games with a multiplayer component like Killzone, Wipeout, and Socom brought back as GaaS titles.

 

[xrnzaaas]

They are still making the games that have propelled them and if none of these life service games hit, they can adjust.

The problem is there's going to be less of them. Even if they could financially support creating both types of games they just don't have enough manpower within their studios. Plus there's the concern they'll only stick with established IP's for the singleplayer titles to be 100% sure they'll be good sellers. I'd be surprised if they introduced as many new sp IP's as during the PS4 era.

In my opinion it's best to focus on what you're good at. Nintendo has been doing their own thing for years and their games are always highly rated and sell their consoles. Sony had a great thing going with their (mostly action-adventure) singleplayer games and they should be doubling down on that instead of trying to chase a different market as well.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Sony should stick to what they're good at. First party story driven games that nobody else has the balls to do.

They should be concentrating on selling their PlayStation consoles and possibly their playstation live subscription service by having quality single player games to add variety to their catelogue.

Just get bungie to make a new live service game and see if it pans out for you if you want to go down that road. Don't pivot your entire division to it for Christ sake.

This reminds me of Nintendo trying to pivot their entire games division to casual games during the wii era. Fans were rightfully pissed though some still defended them until they didnt, yes they still released the odd quality nintendo games here and there but it was clearly not the focus and people gave up on them then.

It's such a shame MS bottled this gen so far.. Sony really could have used a kick up their arse.

Part of the role of a first party should be to create games nobody else is to fill the gaps on your console. Everyone else is doing live service games. What can you do that they can't? Not to mention you'll only be able to release your live service games on just playstation and pc. Third parties have the advantage of being able to release on all platforms. It's really not a first party developers game.

Most of the games they have in development are single player games.

GAAS wise (from PlayStation Studios first party) they’ve got:

MLB
Gran Turismo
Concord
Fairgame$
Twisted Metal (probably)
The Last of Us MP
London’s Project Camden
Insomniac’s MP title (probably)
Horizon
Savage’s Mobile Title
Valkyrie’s Mobile Title

- most of those teams also have one or more single player games on the go.

Then outside of PlayStation Studios:
HellDivers 2
Destiny 2
Destiny (Mobile)
Marathon
Matter

And there are a lot of XDev single player games on the go including:

Project Red (PeopleCanFly)
Project Bates (Ballistic Moon)
Project Carbon (Sumo Digital)

There are also rumours that Lucid have started work on a MotorStorm Game which will probably straddle SP and MP like GT7 and MLB.

 

[Chronicle]

All you need is one though and you could hit a major homerun

 

[graywolf323]

why do people keep acting like that Sony is taking money away from their first party games for this push when the graphs show they’re not doing that?

yes in FY23 they project to be less than FY19 but FY25‘s projection is more money spent on SP than they spent in FY19

 

[AmuroChan]

Since when creating a new game in a different genre meant you need to "acquire" a different company with the expertise. Guerrilla Games were doing almost only Kill zone (FPS) and they just decided to make an RPG and try it out and then we got Horizon and it payed off. I feel the same could happen with other studios, i don't see a world where all the talent from naughty dog cannot create a game outside story driven third person shooter and come out great.

It’s not impossible, but it’s also uncommon and very difficult depend on the genre. GG going from FPS to an open world RPG is the exception and not the rule. That’s not a common occurrence. Also, if you’re talking something like a fighting game, that requires very particular expertise in fighting game mechanics. Even for a premiere studio like ND, I would be very skeptical that they can make a fighting game as technically sound as an Arc Systems Works game. Could they make an open world RPG? I think that’s an easier transition.

The other thing we have to consider is opportunity cost. ND only has so many resources. We know their bread and butter is narrative driven cinematic games. So is it a smart business move for Sony to force them to make a fighting game or JRPG in lieu of whatever it is they want to make? Or is it less risky to just make a deal with an external studio who has expertise in fighting games or JRPGs? I know many people are angry that Sony is investing so much on live service games, but if there is a silver lining in that strategy, it’s that they are mostly using new studios to work on them and not forcing their premiere single player studios to work on these games.

 

[YuLY]

It's just insane that the whole narrative about Jim being king and Phil being washed up has now shifted to both being equally incompetent buffoons all because of a showcase that wasn't filled with unrealistic, ridiculous fanservice games.

You are forgetting the very recent cancellation of the Devation game which caused them to layoff more than half of their studio. In addition to that the very probable cancellation of the Last of Us Factions game, its not technically cancelled, but lets be real, people have been moved to another project as reported by Schreier, its a goner.

So it wasnt just the showcase.

 

[Woopah]

does he said anything about what pays the bills for each of the Third Party Publishers?

What does that have to do with the topic?

the games that they want and will buy are dead IPs from years ago getting sequels and remakes that no one besides GAF will purchase. Ridiculous shit like Bloodborne 2 or MGS 6. Gravity Rush 3, LBP 4, another motorstorm, all this other BS. That's why i call it fanservice. It's there to appeal to US and no one outside of the forum. And why do you need to know what their internal studios are working on at the moment? They've earnt the benefit of the doubt. Whatever they show at the next showcase will be good.

It's a reality check we've been handed time and time and time again for the past 3 years. Every showcase shown since 2020, GAF has had some sort of problem with it. People have been getting disappointed for years now and yet we still come into every showcase with high expectations.
And a bad showcase/ GaaS initiative isn't cause for concern. Do you really think that the higher ups at Sony are going to undo a 10+ year streak of pure wins?

I still feel there have been some pretty good shows in recent years:

Sony Showcase 2020
Sony Showcase 2021
Nintendo Direct June 2021
Nintendo Direct Feb 2022
MS Showcase 2022
State of Play September 2022

I have high hopes for Microsoft and Nintendo this Summer.

I think it's ridiculous.

Sony should stick to what they're good at. First party story driven games that nobody else has the balls to do.

They should be concentrating on selling their PlayStation consoles and possibly their playstation live subscription service by having quality single player games to add variety to their catelogue.

Just get bungie to make a new live service game and see if it pans out for you if you want to go down that road. Don't pivot your entire division to it for Christ sake.

This reminds me of Nintendo trying to pivot their entire games division to casual games during the wii era. Fans were rightfully pissed though some still defended them until they didnt, yes they still released the odd quality nintendo games here and there but it was clearly not the focus and people gave up on them then.

I think on both cases it's a case of marketing over content.

Sony could have has exactly sames in development, but I'd they had announced Rise of the Ronin and Death Stranding 2 at this Showcase instead of earlier, the conversation would be a lot different.

Same with Nintendo and the Wii era, they were mostly developing core games the whole time, they were just very bad at marketing (and in North Americas case actually publishing) those core games.

 

[Fafalada]

Mmm what? You well know that when people say we want something different they are not talking about any other tired genre, so don't act like we are punishing Sony for doing what "we all have been asking for".
Like what's Sony's take on JRPG, can they make one? Can Sony make a fighting game?, Can they make a Tactics game ? Etc, no like "can Sony try making a gacha game?" "Can Sony make a micro transaction oriented game?"

Fighting and tactics games actually lend themselves really well to GaaS though - there are some very successful examples of the latter, and former is just begging for someone to 'do it right'. In fact I'd even argue that given how traditional fighting games have been stuck for decades, it could be a meaningful way forward *if* done right.
Anyway, the way people tie monetization models to a specific, very small subset of games, is kind of like the tired old argument of 'Indie games can only be 2d platformers and/or roguelikes'.

But what your post outlines is that people aren't really asking for Sony to do something new - they want something old and familiar that just hasn't had a Sony Studios label on it yet.

I strongly doubt Sony would be willing to sacrifice one of their crown-jewel single-player teams to a long-term commitment on a spin-off project.

That could also be a mistake that limits what's possible though. R* had the balls to put nearly 1000 people of their 'crown-jewel single player teams' on finishing GTA Online for 18 months or so *after* GTA 5 had shipped, and that decision is still paying dividends for them nearly 12 years later. Avoiding half-measures is a calculated risk too.

Okay, well let's say GaaS is a game that is primarily designed to continually make gamers pay out for stuff.

I mean - that may be the common approach but it's not a given.
Minecraft was one of the big GaaS successes of recent decade and did so without even considering monetization upfront. No Man's Sky did so as well. There are others too - it may not be games making 5 Billion $/year, but let's be honest - Sony's 1st party games don't do that either.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah, none of what you just said made a lick of sense because that's not what is happening.

That kinda thinking though, at east explains why threads like these exist.

It makes perfect sense - if you are at all objective about the strategy of a video games company changing for the worse.

Sony pushing more for live service games is a bad thing. Because live service games are bad. And time spent working on them is not time spent working on the games they are actually good at.

If you are sitting there thinking that it's a good strategy for them, then you're either a GaaS game fan, or unable to accept it when Sony is making a mistake.

 

[Banjo64]

Do you really think that the higher ups at Sony are going to undo a 10+ year streak of pure wins?

Absolutely they could. Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft have all massively fucked everything up after 5-10 years of domination.

 

[MagnesD3]

Absolutely they could. Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft have all massively fucked everything up after 5-10 years of domination.

Yeah this happens all the time lol. That's why it's so stupid that Microsoft gave up.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

It makes perfect sense - if you are at all objective about the strategy of a video games company changing for the worse.

Sony pushing more for live service games is a bad thing. Because live service games are bad. And time spent working on them is not time spent working on the games they are actually good at.

If you are sitting there thinking that it's a good strategy for them, then you're either a GaaS game fan, or unable to accept it when Sony is making a mistake.

Not a GAAS fan. I can just be objective and not look at anything I am not interested in as bad.

live service games aren't bad. They are just a different kinda distribution/gaming mode. As long as the core game at the heart of it is good and fair, then if people choose to keep buying maps or DLC or mxt for it, well that's their business.

And having given this some more thought, I think I may have lied when said I do not buy live-service games because in all honesty, even Tekken 7 was a live-service game. As was GT sport.

I am not saying it's a good strategy, just not saying its bad either, because to me, with what we know of it so far, it's just them expanding, not pivoting.... expanding. There is a difference.

 

[MagnesD3]

Not a GAAS fan. I can just be objective and not look at anything I am not interested in as bad.

live service games aren't bad. They are just a different kinda distribution/gaming mode. As long as the core game at the heart of it is good and fair, then if people choose to keep buying maps or DLC or mxt for it, well that's their business.

And having given this some more thought, I think I may have lied when said I do not buy live-service games because in all honesty, even Tekken 7 was a live-service game. As was GT sport.

I am not saying it's a good strategy, just not saying its bad either, because to me, with what we know of it so far, it's just them expanding, not pivoting.... expanding. There is a difference.

They are bad for people who actually care about the games because you don't own shit and eventually they shut down. Also they tend to be anti consumer as fuck.

 

[twinspectre]

I bet gamers makes this plan work, making gaming filled with GaaS and then the same gamers will complain about it. Look at DLC, microtransactions and season pass.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

As long as Sony has their bread and butter single player games (hopefully not forever with the same franchises) coming, then they should be free to try and expand into live services. I've played a few live service games (The Division 1 & 2, Destiny 1 & 2, and Overwatch 1 & 1.5) and they can work if they can restrain their greed. Sony has an idea of how to make and find good games, while Bungie has a decent model for their monetization.

 

[Shubh_C63]

We also know that their investment in "traditional" games has dropped in 2023 and won't be back up to previous levels until 2025. Meanwhile, investment in Gaas is eclipsing the games that made many of us PlayStation fans to begin with. And if Sony has nothing to show from their single player devs that won't be released for another two years then that makes my point for me.

Then what is our alternative ? PC, Nintendo, Xbox or just barrage Sony twitter account (if this is true) to change their billion dollar investement.

I think you're saying this is public knowledge that SP content funds are getting reduced for further GaaS content and you need to be ensured that yes indeed SP projects are being made. I think recent article did covered that Sony is investing in GaaS with minimal impact on SP. I know they have to say that but its way too early to cry foul. I mean c'mon man we just got ragnarok and ofcourse they will not stop making great cinematic SP games, they're not Microsoft, they won't kill the golden goose formula. I say wait for another 2 years probably to see signs of SP content.

 

[Topher]

Then what is our alternative ? PC, Nintendo, Xbox or just barrage Sony twitter account (if this is true) to change their billion dollar investement.

I game on all those systems. If one is lacking then I say so. Right now, what I'm seeing from Sony is lacking.

I think you're saying this is public knowledge that SP content funds are getting reduced for further GaaS content and you need to be ensured that yes indeed SP projects are being made. I think recent article did covered that Sony is investing in GaaS with minimal impact on SP. I know they have to say that but its way too early to cry foul. I mean c'mon man we just got ragnarok and ofcourse they will not stop making great cinematic SP games, they're not Microsoft, they won't kill the golden goose formula. I say wait for another 2 years probably to see signs of SP content.

Wait another two years for SP content? You are ok with that?

 

[Shubh_C63]

I game on all those systems. If one is lacking then I say so. Right now, what I'm seeing from Sony is lacking.



Wait another two years for SP content? You are ok with that?

I am. More so if someone owns all the systems. Plenty of games to go around and I know if ND doesn't pickup the slack some other developer will make a game like Hogwarts Legacy I didn't knew I wanted. Good enough as I can't demand good games, I can only reject bad games.

 

[Topher]

I am. More so if someone owns all the systems. Plenty of games to go around and I know if ND doesn't pickup the slack some other developer will make a game like Hogwarts Legacy I didn't knew I wanted. Good enough as I can't demand good games, I can only reject bad games.

If you are ok with that then that's up to you. I expect more from PlayStation.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

As long as I get those SP bangers, no problem to me.

 

[Barakov]

All right, at this point this needs to be a meme or something:

Helldivers 1 developers: Hey guys, we’re making Helldivers 2!
Internet drama queens: OMG, Sony is doomed!
Sony:

And then Nintendo walks up to Sony and pats them on the shoulder:

To be honest, I didn't know there was a Helldivers 1.

 

[TheGodfather07]

As long as their top studios are making traditional single players games, they'll be fine. Surely sony know they have to have a balance.

 

[Megatron]

They are still making the games that have propelled them and if none of these life service games hit, they can adjust.

Are they? What have they announced they are making other than Spiderman, which is made by a dev they recently bought?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Sony’s direction and vision for their future is very concerning imo. 12 live service games is ludicrous and seems really desperate to me. What I dread is if two or even one live service game truly succeeds, live service will probably become the main focus at Sony mostly because they are generally cheaper and can produce constant revenue. Japanese games became an afterthought for Sony after their Western games performed well, so I could see that potentially happening with live service games as well. Hope I’m wrong, but I have a bad feeling about this new found trajectory for Sony.

 

[feynoob]

As long as I get those SP bangers, no problem with me.

At least they don't disappoint you in the finals.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

I think they are diversifying their offerings, not replacing what has brought them success already. Not a bad idea. Just don't over invest in it yet, though. Maybe dip a foot in.