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FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

plank

plank

Member
DC1 said:
8GB confirmed
R: 5.5 game Vs. 2.5 OS/reserved.

Multiple Sony devs denied the allocation but did not provide clarity.
Still waiting on Sony rebuttal/Clarification.
Click to expand...

JABEE said:
8 GB of GDDR5 RAM
4.5GB Minimum
5.5 GB is accessible if needed
1GB Reserved for Future OS Updates
1.5 GB Reserved for current OS.
Click to expand...

prwxv3 said:
It has 8 GB but 1.5 GB is for the OS 1GB is for future features , 1GB is in limbo but devs can use it if needed, and 4.5 is just for games.
Click to expand...

5.5 isn't good enough? why is this a bad thing?
 
D

dragonbane

Member
vazel said:
But then what about recording 1080p games? That would mean 1GB of RAM would need to be reserved. Unless the PS4 records 1080p games at 720p which would be lame.

Of course none of this would be an issue if it records straight to the HDD like any other device with DVR functionality.
Click to expand...
Honestly I think that 1 GB of the reserved RAM is for that purpose alone and the rest of the OS just needs 512MB. Doesn't make sense to me otherwise, that's why I'm stubborn here.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
JonathanPower said:
You are assuming that in a game you have to constantly load 176/GB sec. of different data every single frame. However, this is not the case. I would be surprised if there is a game that does that. There is data you must keep constantly in memory. So if you have 7GB of RAM, you can just load 5.89GB of data on one frame, then load another 1GB on the next frame, and you can take advantage of all the available RAM. The more RAM you have, the more data you can cache on it.
Click to expand...

Bandwidth / Framerate to determine the sweet spot for memory is very common ratio for consoles. Even though you are not actually touching all that each memory, and you actually can't, not only because of what you said, but because there are other big bandwidth consumers when rendering a frame.
 
C

Canis lupus

Member
thuway said:
The only thing I can tell you is that a few developers have even went so far as to say something akin to: "What do we do with ALL OF THIS RAM?"

In two or three years time, expectations will change, and at that time, I expect both machines to optimize operating systems and offer more RAM. I don't know much more to say to you guys, this knee jerk reaction is all over the place.
Click to expand...

Yeah: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630056

OS optimization over the years sounds pretty obvious.
 
D

DigitalDevilSummoner

zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Here's what I want. A PS4 with a 0.5 gb OS. The remaining 7.5 gb is for games.

I WANT
Jeremy%20Power%20Clarkson_thumb%5B8%5D.jpg
 
S

SnakeEyez

Member
famousmortimer said:
I still don't know any numbers so don't read too much into this.


The thing I find funny about this entire thing is that it's totally perception vs reality and a lot of you had no idea you were on the perception side of things.

Sony never said anything about their os size and nor should they. My understanding is that Microsoft never did either, that info came from leaked documents. Sony fans held onto this idea that the os was 1gb despite having no credible source ever mention that. None of the leakers here mentioned anything, no sites of note posted anything. It was basically an urban legend that people took as fact.

At the same time people assumed that the 3gb used by Microsoft was a waste. Why? I have no idea. No developer ever complained about the ram available to them. No website of note complained that it was filled with bloat. Generally speaking everyone in the know expects multiplats to be roughly equal for a year or two atleast. There was never any reason to be upset with ms over their hardware config. If you want to get upset about kinect and the costs associated with that... fine. But the os? There was never any reason to think poorly about it but people did, foolishly.

So here we are and guess what... both OS's are going to use memory. The wii u uses 1gb for fuck's sake, did you guys really think the xbox one or ps4 were going to use less? Especially when both are built around multitasking and recording gameplay. I stream and record stuff on my pc right now and guess what.... when I do that my performance suffers. So to think they wouldn't reserve the space for this (dedicated cores, ram, etc) was silly.

So the perception on gaf was that 7gb of ram was going to be used. The reality is that the number is lower. The perception is that this is something to get upset about. The reality is that devs knew this the entire time they were talking about how developer friendly the box is. Nothing has actually changed except for your perception.
Click to expand...

Everybody should just read this and calm it down a notch..or 5.
 
T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
diffusionx said:
Sony has usage data on what people do with their machines. All evidence shows that people use their consoles for a lot more than playing videogames. Sony is just giving people what they want, and don't want to be caught flat-footed again.
Click to expand...

which is great for their brand (which ive never disputed) but shitty for me.I do not play corporate welfare. My allegiance is to my own needs not a companies. If sony wants to accommodate features that will bring in more casuals fair dues, but that doesn't make the system more attractive to me.

I will always want the functions closest to my needs for the cheapest price. Had Sony offered that, I would of payed a premium to own their system. Now that they dont offer that, I feel no compulsion to pay more than such a device is worth to me. I am the buyer, I will pay what i feel something is worth, not I am told it is worth.

A media box PS4 is not worth $399. Ill wait.
 
Shin

Shin

Banned
JonathanPower said:
The problem is, they never said they added more ram for OS functionalities. And I highly doubt developers would ask for that.
Click to expand...

As to why they increased the amount I wouldn't know, but let's look at a normal PS4.
If we remove all the reserves and whats not that's about 6.5GB for games 1.5GB for the OS, which will most likely shrink instead of increasing.

Then we might still end up with 7 out of 8GB for game creation, this seems more like a problem with current dev-kits than a long-term one.
IMO at best there will be 2GB reserved for the OS in the end out of the 8, gut feeling....nothing more.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
So is it 4.5GB or 5.5GB for games (because IGN and GI wrote about 3.5GB being available to OS).

This "flexible" RAM malarkey is so damn confusing.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
Tom Penny said:
How are people justifying a 3.5 gig OS that will likely be used for mostly things not related to making games better?
Click to expand...

Developer impressions.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
which is great for their brand (which ive never disputed) but shitty for me.I do not play corporate welfare. My allegiance is to my own needs not a companies. If sony wants to accommodate features that will bring in more casuals far dues, but that make the system more attractive to me.

I will always want the functions closest to my needs for the cheapest price. Had Sony offered that, I would of payed a premium to own their system. Now that they dont offer that, I feel no compulsion to pay more than such a device is worth to me. I am the buyer, I will pay what i feel something is worth, not I am told it is worth.

A media box PS4 is not worth $399. Ill wait.
Click to expand...

What features for casuals?
 
B

backbreaker65

Banned
famousmortimer said:
I still don't know any numbers so don't read too much into this.


The thing I find funny about this entire thing is that it's totally perception vs reality and a lot of you had no idea you were on the perception side of things.

Sony never said anything about their os size and nor should they. My understanding is that Microsoft never did either, that info came from leaked documents. Sony fans held onto this idea that the os was 1gb despite having no credible source ever mention that. None of the leakers here mentioned anything, no sites of note posted anything. It was basically an urban legend that people took as fact.

At the same time people assumed that the 3gb used by Microsoft was a waste. Why? I have no idea. No developer ever complained about the ram available to them. No website of note complained that it was filled with bloat. Generally speaking everyone in the know expects multiplats to be roughly equal for a year or two atleast. There was never any reason to be upset with ms over their hardware config. If you want to get upset about kinect and the costs associated with that... fine. But the os? There was never any reason to think poorly about it but people did, foolishly.

So here we are and guess what... both OS's are going to use memory. The wii u uses 1gb for fuck's sake, did you guys really think the xbox one or ps4 were going to use less? Especially when both are built around multitasking and recording gameplay. I stream and record stuff on my pc right now and guess what.... when I do that my performance suffers. So to think they wouldn't reserve the space for this (dedicated cores, ram, etc) was silly.

So the perception on gaf was that 7gb of ram was going to be used. The reality is that the number is lower. The perception is that this is something to get upset about. The reality is that devs knew this the entire time they were talking about how developer friendly the box is. Nothing has actually changed except for your perception.
Click to expand...

I think the Tech Director from MS Marc Whitten in a pseudo way confirmed the 3GB OS in an interview around the XB1 reveal.
 
D

dragonbane

Member
Xbudz said:
HHG used one of his E3 videos to take a quote from an admitted non-coder so he could latch onto this current PS4 dRAMa so people would watch his ad-sponsored video.

The PR person from Quantic Dream he spoke to simply mentioned they were using half of what's available on PS4, which can be taken a number of ways. There is no confirmation, and his sources is the PR guy.
Click to expand...
He is not a PR person, he is the QA manager and works at the studio. You are still right regardless, just wanted to clarify.


famousmortimer said:
I still don't know any numbers so don't read too much into this.


The thing I find funny about this entire thing is that it's totally perception vs reality and a lot of you had no idea you were on the perception side of things.

Sony never said anything about their os size and nor should they. My understanding is that Microsoft never did either, that info came from leaked documents. Sony fans held onto this idea that the os was 1gb despite having no credible source ever mention that. None of the leakers here mentioned anything, no sites of note posted anything. It was basically an urban legend that people took as fact.

At the same time people assumed that the 3gb used by Microsoft was a waste. Why? I have no idea. No developer ever complained about the ram available to them. No website of note complained that it was filled with bloat. Generally speaking everyone in the know expects multiplats to be roughly equal for a year or two atleast. There was never any reason to be upset with ms over their hardware config. If you want to get upset about kinect and the costs associated with that... fine. But the os? There was never any reason to think poorly about it but people did, foolishly.

So here we are and guess what... both OS's are going to use memory. The wii u uses 1gb for fuck's sake, did you guys really think the xbox one or ps4 were going to use less? Especially when both are built around multitasking and recording gameplay. I stream and record stuff on my pc right now and guess what.... when I do that my performance suffers. So to think they wouldn't reserve the space for this (dedicated cores, ram, etc) was silly.

So the perception on gaf was that 7gb of ram was going to be used. The reality is that the number is lower. The perception is that this is something to get upset about. The reality is that devs knew this the entire time they were talking about how developer friendly the box is. Nothing has actually changed except for your perception.
Click to expand...
Thank god for you. You are making me feel better every time. Thank you, voice of reason.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Wynnebeck said:
I was referring to the assumption from people that 5.5GB of RAM is worse than the imaginary 7GB when in reality, 5.5GB of GDDR5 RAM is insane. You came out of nowhere trying to make some weird ass analogy with circumcision and Sony fans.
Click to expand...
You said it's not important other than a dick measuring contest. Which is exactly what people have been using the theoretical 7gb as.

Which is why this news hurts them so.

I'm really shocked you're this confused.
 
I

Ishan

Junior Member
velociraptor said:
What is so funny?

HHG is right. Currently, nothing is absolute. We have no confirmation from Sony or any of it's partners. As of now, it's simply speculation from Eurogamer.
Click to expand...

It's funny because he makes it seem like the developer has a choice on which os features to use and which not to and that would free up space . Something akin to saying oh this game just hijacked your system disabled all game streaming/sharing chat functionality of the os freed up the space and now has nearly all of the 8 to the game itself .... I mean unless that sort of super flexibility is allowed which I doubt it is ... And even incorporating that amount of flexibility would require a load of coding gymnastics ... So just a pretty layman way of expressing things without an understanding of basic os / coding principles . I'm not a game dev but I've programmed enough to find it funny ... Think it's the same with the others. It's like saying your game suddenly disabled windows functionality on the pc so it could run better .
 
M

mangochutney

Member
dragonbane said:
The dedicated chip in the PS4 doesn't have any RAM as far as I know. That chip is just going to make sure that no CPU and GPU resources are wasted. The same cannot be said for RAM.
Click to expand...
Yes, but what you are saying is that the entire timeshift is stored in RAM, as I said STBs usually have piss-poor amounts of cheap RAM but can keep hours of video, it isn't stored in RAM it is stored on disk.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
dragonbane said:
I don't think the RAM has something to do with that tbh. It is more about the features, how they are integrated and how the thing is marketed. If you want a "gamers" box that is solely about power build yourself a nice PC.

The bottom line is: PS4 is still way more powerful, devs are happy and Sony's first party is going to show MS where it's at when it comes to graphics just like this gen. Nothing more, nothing less. Eventually the PS4 will have more RAM available for games than the XB1, because that's where Sony's focus still is. Build a console for gamers. For now they are playing it safe, giving developers exactly what they need and reserving the rest for bad days. This goes for the OS and games. You wouldn't see massive improvements in third party games either way, developers are too lazy for that, gamer's box or not. 7GB of RAM or not.

It all comes down to taste and what games you like anyway. For me the PS4 is the only gamer's box, just because I like Sony's first party output way more then MS. For me that difference doesn't come because of power. It comes because I think they make the better and more varied games.
Click to expand...

I guess this really is what it comes down to. I have an xbox and a nice pc now. I'm happy with the games on the xbox, but appreciate the power of my pc. Ultimately I'm too lazy to hook the pc up to the family tv and was hoping the ps4 was the answer. If the ps4 and xbox one will be close to parity with each other why should I jump ship to the playstation ecosystem? I'm still on the fence, and didn't cancel my pre-order, but I'm getting closer to doing so and then trading a wait and see approach. Maybe decide by Christmas instead of launch.
 
J

jWILL253

Banned
HHG is right, in a way. Until we have official comments from Sony, this is all speculation. His sources may be dubious (language too ambiguous to make anything from the statement he quoted), but he's right on that note.

But, this article is indeed silly. If I remember correctly, we had official documents leaked regarding Xbox ONE's RAM allocation. In this case, Eurogamer is using fucking Powerpoint slides from Guerrilla Games regarding an old dev kit. I would expect a better source, so I'm calling bullshit.

That doesn't change the fact that GAF lost its mind...

Evolution_1ne said:
almost 100 pages for fucking nothing, this thread is now legendary status
Click to expand...

.
 
Raonak

Raonak

Banned
SgtCobra said:
Sony just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about RAM (I'm an expert), but the amount that is useable for devs and OS are huge parts of it. It's not like it is with Microsoft where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw gamers over regarding RAM availability, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the gaming public and devs, after hearing about this, are not going to want to purchase a PS4 or develop for it, they will buy a Xbox One instead which has more RAM available for games. This is HUGE (just like the amount of RAM available for gaming of the XB1 compared to the PS4). You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated the entire market with this move.

It's over, period. Sony lost their last ace, and that's the end of their PS4 hopes and dreams.

It's not hyperbole, it's not fanboy drivel. It is LITERALLY it for PS4. Sony has nothing left, nothing they have can fix the hole now created. There is no reason left for anyone, hardcore or casual, to substantially invest in a PS4. Except if they want to play Driveclub. Which will suck because it won't be using 8GB of that glorious GDDR5.

Sony themselves took the last reason away that anyone would NEED to own a PS4 over a Xbox One (except GAIKAI CLOUD LOL GAMING), and the cavalcade of tiny indie titles that will be nice but won't add more RAM, it's just simply not going to salvage the bloated, underdesigned midget that is the PS4

There may be some hardcore gamers that stick around. Some did it for Gamecube too. But the last bell tolled. Maybe next decade.

The age of Sony is done.
Click to expand...

bravo.
like how you combined the japanese culture post with the amir0x one.
 
JonathanPower

JonathanPower

Member
thuway said:
The only thing I can tell you is that a few developers have even went so far as to say something akin to: "What do we do with ALL OF THIS RAM?"

In two or three years time, expectations will change, and at that time, I expect both machines to optimize operating systems and offer more RAM. I don't know much more to say to you guys, this knee jerk reaction is all over the place.

Developer's are not asking for more, but GAF is? What type of bizzaro world is this.
Click to expand...

It's not like developers didn't say it does make a difference having more RAM.

http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-and-xbox-...-measure-of-performance-avalanche-studios-cto

Avalance Studios said:
We even asked if games on the PlayStation 4, which reportedly allocates 7 GB GDDR5 RAM to its games while of the Xbox One’s 8 GB DDR3 RAM, only 5 GB is allocated to games, would look and run better compared to games on Microsoft’s console down the line.

Blomberg responded that, “I think that is too early to say. Naturally it’s easier and cheaper for the developers to develop for the smallest common denominator, but if that difference becomes too large we’ll definitely see specific implementations for each platform.”
Click to expand...
 
S

StoopKid

Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
which is great for their brand (which ive never disputed) but shitty for me.I do not play corporate welfare. My allegiance is to my own needs not a companies. If sony wants to accommodate features that will bring in more casuals fair dues, but that doesn't make the system more attractive to me.

I will always want the functions closest to my needs for the cheapest price. Had Sony offered that, I would of payed a premium to own their system. Now that they dont offer that, I feel no compulsion to pay more than such a device is worth to me. I am the buyer, I will pay what i feel something is worth, not I am told it is worth.

A media box PS4 is not worth $399. Ill wait.
Click to expand...

So are you gonna buy a xbone ?
 
B

Barzul

Member
I really just want to know how obvious the power difference on both consoles will be in the long run. Are we talking OG Xbox to PS2 levels or better? Because I can live with that, especially if the Xbox One has a great UX.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
This thread just reminded me that I'll be able to put my current blu-ray player in the closet and just use the PS4 to play them! That will also free up an HDMI connection

WIN!
 
T

TheD

The Detective
famousmortimer said:
At the same time people assumed that the 3gb used by Microsoft was a waste.
Click to expand...
Because 3GB is a huge amount of RAM usage for what the XBONE does.

famousmortimer said:
No website of note complained that it was filled with bloat.
Click to expand...
Because game reporters are mostly tech illiterate.

The RAM usage is not massively bad for the PS4 in comparison to the xbone, but an extra 2 GB over it would of been a huge advantage.
 
S

Satchel

Banned
I find it funny that last year, I was called crazy for thinking these new consoles could have 2-4 GB of RAM. With some reserved for the OS.

We now have two consoles with 5GB of RAM exclusively for gaming and people are losing their shit like these consoles barely have more power than a Sega Master System.

Fucking hell. Complaining the PS4 is "now" going to be a media box? Guess what guys? It was always going to be. You know these consoles can do multiple things at once right?
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
Ishan said:
It's funny because he makes it seem like the developer has a choice on which os features to use and which not to and that would free up space . Something akin to saying oh this game just hijacked your system disabled all game streaming/sharing chat functionality of the os freed up the space and now has nearly all of the 8 to the game itself .... I mean unless that sort of super flexibility is allowed which I doubt it is ... And even incorporating that amount of flexibility would require a load of coding gymnastics ... So just a pretty layman way of expressing things without an understanding of basic os / coding principles . I'm not a game dev but I've programmed enough to find it funny ... Think it's the same with the others. It's like saying your game suddenly disabled windows functionality on the pc so it could run better .
Click to expand...
Ok, you're right about that. That did not make any sense to me.
 
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