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[Darkatomz]

I don't have an answer to your problems Ducky, but if you ever solve the problem, everything that I've read in my research would indicate that KY sucks ass. If you're going to stick with water-based lube, check out ID Glide.

My guess is that it's just some chemical.

 

[Devolution]

So I've been reading Guyland, I really recommend it for anyone who wants to read up on the college age middle class demographic of men and what's going on with them. Feminist lit and studies tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with us and we don't really get a good overview of how men get the shaft from outdated modes of thinking. It's informative, truthfully depressing but very insightful.

 

[timetokill]

So I've been reading Guyland, I really recommend it for anyone who wants to read up on the college age middle class demographic of men and what's going on with them. Feminist lit and studies tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with us and we don't really get a good overview of how men get the shaft from outdated modes of thinking. It's informative, truthfully depressing but very insightful.

I remember reading the post on Jezebel about the book and the comments were depressing as hell. I think that Feminist lit/studies really needs to add some focus/perspective to the male side of the equation. It would help men feel like Feminist stuff isn't only for women, and also help women understand some of the issues men are going through as a more feminist worldview spreads. I've only read some snippets from Guyland, hopefully I'll be able to read more of it sometime.

So thanks for your comment, and enough outta me.

 

[RawPower]

I remember reading the post on Jezebel about the book and the comments were depressing as hell. I think that Feminist lit/studies really needs to add some focus/perspective to the male side of the equation. It would help men feel like Feminist stuff isn't only for women, and also help women understand some of the issues men are going through as a more feminist worldview spreads. I've only read some snippets from Guyland, hopefully I'll be able to read more of it sometime.

So thanks for your comment, and enough outta me.

I haven't looked at it yet, but I have a feeling I'm in for something very unpleasant. D:

 

[The Librarian]

So I've been reading Guyland, I really recommend it for anyone who wants to read up on the college age middle class demographic of men and what's going on with them. Feminist lit and studies tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with us and we don't really get a good overview of how men get the shaft from outdated modes of thinking. It's informative, truthfully depressing but very insightful.

Care to summarize?

 

[Brian Griffin]

I don't have an answer to your problems Ducky, but if you ever solve the problem, everything that I've read in my research would indicate that KY sucks ass. If you're going to stick with water-based lube, check out ID Glide.

My guess is that it's just some chemical.

Astroglide is another great water based one that has never let my wife and I down.

Ducky, I don't own a vagina but I've lived with a woman who does for almost 10 years and we've gone through similar issues. My guess is that the infection, medication for it, and then getting on the pill has screwed up your vagina's ecosystem of bacteria and might just take some time to reset. You should still see a doctor but in my experience these sorta problems work themselves out eventually.

 

[Devolution]

Care to summarize?

Um a lot of the talk revolves around the Guy Code and just how insidious this mode of thinking happens to be. The Guy Code of course being stuff like "bros before hos", "real men don't cry", "you need to be a stud", etc. We all think these things are just caricatures or extremes but they carry a much larger burden then we're willing to accept and decry. I actually finished it today on the bus and want to retread it.

Here are some passages that describe the book's aim and direction:

It's easy to observe "guys" virtually everywhere in America–in every high school and college campus in America with their baseball caps on frontward or backward, their easy smiles or anxious darting eyes, huddled around tiny electronic gadgets or laptops, or relaxing in front of massive wide-screen hi-def TVs, in basements, dorms and frat houses. But it would be a mistake to assume that each conforms fully to a regime of peer-influenced and enforced behaviors that I call the "Guy Code," or shares all traits and attitudes with everyone else. It's important to remember that individual guys are not the same as "Guyland."

In fact my point is precisely the opposite. Though Guyland is pervasive–it is the air guys breathe, the water they drink–each guy cuts his own deal with it as he ties to navigate the passage from adolescence to adulthood without succumbing to the most soul-numbing spirit crushing elements that surround him every day.

Guys often feel they're entirely on their own as they navigate the murky shadows and the dangerous eddies that run in Guyland's swift current. They often stop talking to their parents, who "just don't get it." Other adults seem equally clueless. And they can't confide in one another lest they risk being exposed for the confused creatures they are. So they're left alone, confused, trying to come to terms with a world they themselves barely understand. They couch their insecurity in bravado and bluster, a fearless strut barely concealing a tremulous anxiety. They test themselves in fantasy worlds and in drinking contests, enduring humiliation and pain at the hands of others.

All the while, many do suspect that something's rotten in the state of Manhood. They struggle to conceal their own sense of fraudulence and can smell it on others. But few can admit to it, lest all the emperors-to-be will be revealed as disrobed. They go along, in mime.

Just as one can support the troops but oppose the war, so too can one appreciate and support individual guys while engaging critically with the social and cultural world they inhabit. In fact I believe that only by understanding this world can we truly be empathetic to the guy in our lives. We need to enter this world, see the perilous field in which boys become men in our society because we desperately need to start a conversation about that world. We do boys a great disservice by turning away, excusing the excesses of Guyland as just "boys will be boys"–because we fail to see just how powerful its influence really is. Only when we begin to engage in these conversations, with open eyes and open hearts–as parents to children, as friends, as themselves–can we both reduce the risks and enable guys to navigate it more successfully. This book is an attempt to map that terrain in order to enable guys–and those who know them, care about them, love them–to steer a course with greater integrity and honesty, so they can be true not to some artificial code, but to themselves.

Whenever I ask young women what they think it means to be a woman, they look at me puzzled and say, basically, "Whatever I want." "It doesn't mean anything at all to me," says Nicole, a junior at Colby College in Maine. "I can be Mia Hamm, I can be Britney Spears, I can be Madame Curie or Madonna. Nobody can tell me what it means to be a woman anymore."

For men, the question is still meaningful–and powerful. In countless workshops on college campuses and in high-school assemblies, I've asked young men what it means to be a man. I've asked guys from every state in the nation, as well as about fifteen other countries what sort of phrases and words come to mind when they hear someone say, "Be a man!"

The responses are rather predictable. The first thing someone usually says is "Don't cry," the other similar phrases and ideas–never show your feelings, never ask for directions, never give up, never give in, be strong, be aggressive, show no fear, show no mercy, get rich, get even, get laid, win–follow easily after that.

Here's what guys say, summarized into a set of current epigrams, Think of it as a "Real Guy's Top Ten List."

1. Boys don't cry
2. It's better to be mad than sad
3. Don't get mad–get even
4. Take it like a man
5. He who has the most toys when he dies, wins
6. Just do it or Ride or Die
7. Size matters
8. I don't stop to ask for directions
9. Nice guys finish last
10. It's all good

The unifying emotional subtext of all these aphorisms involves never showing emotions or admitting to weakness. The face you must show to the world insists that everything is going just fine, that everything is under control, that there's nothing to be concerned about (a contemporary version of Alfred E. Neuman of MAD Magazine's "What, me worry?"). Winning is crucial, especially when the victory is over other men who lave less amazing or smaller toys. Kindness is not an option, nor is compassion. These sentiments are taboo.

This is "The Guy Code", the collection of attitudes, values and traits that together composes what it means to be a man. These are rules that govern the behavior in Guyland, the criteria that will be used to evaluate whether any particular guy measures up. The Guy Code revisits what psychologist Willian Pollack called "the boy code" in his best selling book Real Boys–just a couple of years older and with a lot more at stake. And just as Pollack and others have explored the dynamics of boyhood so well, we now need to end the reach of that analysis to include late adolescence and young adulthood.

In 1976, social psychologist Robert Brannon summarized the four basic rules of masculinity:

1. "No Sissy Stuff!" Being a man means not being a sissy, not being perceived as weak, effeminate or gay. Masculinity is the relentless repudiation of the feminine.
2. "Be a Big Wheel." This rule refers to the centrality of success and power in the definition of masculinity. Masculinity is measured more by wealth, power and status than by any particular body part.
3. "Be a Sturdy Oak." What makes a man is that he is reliable in a crisis. And what makes him so reliable in a crisis is not that he is able to respond fully and appropriately to the situation at hand, but rather that he resemble an inanimate object. A rock, a pillar, a species of tree.
4. "Give 'Em Hell." Exude an aura of daring and aggression. Live life out on the edge. Take risks. Go for it. Pay no attention to what others think.

Amazingly, these four rules have changed very little among successive generations of high-school and college age men. James O'Niel, a developmental psychologist at the University of Connecticut, and Joseph Pleck, a social psychologist at the University of Illinois, have each been conducting studies of this normative definition of masculinity for decades. "One of the most surprising findings," O'Neil told me, "is how little the rules have changed."

 

[EviLore]

That's an interesting topic and probably deserves its own thread.

These definitions of masculinity as so pervasive as to feel hard-coded, really, but they're clearly exclusionary and outmoded, too. How do we say "being a man is about conquering desirable women and not having feelings and beating people up" and simultaneously say that there's nothing wrong with being gay or to be able to express yourself how you want? The concepts are at odds. This is how you have situations like a father being disappointed in his son for being incapable of fulfilling masculine ideals.

 

[Emitan]

That's an interesting topic and probably deserves its own thread.

These definitions of masculinity as so pervasive as to feel hard-coded, really, but they're clearly exclusionary and outmoded, too. How do we say "being a man is about conquering desirable women and not having feelings and beating people up" and simultaneously say that there's nothing wrong with being gay or to be able to express yourself how you want? The concepts are at odds. This is how you have situations like a father being disappointed in his son for being incapable of fulfilling masculine ideals.

The worst part about them is you can't really reject them without feeling completely isolated. Show too much emotion? Other men start to disrespect you. Even women seem to expect men to follow this code to some degree, although I guess that's not really different from the expectations of femininity men have for women.

 

[Devolution]

I'll make a thread then since it's probably more pertinent outside of this one and kind of ironic I'm saying we should talk more about this while I post it in girlgaf.

 

[Professor Beef]

I really do hate that "guy code." I got the "don't be a sissy" stuff from my dad all the time.

 

[Emitan]

I really do hate that "guy code." I got the "don't be a sissy" stuff from my dad all the time.

It's because you won't play Fire Emblem

I stopped really caring what my dad thought when I was a little kid. Jeeze, sorry I'm not a competitive asshole, Dad. I'll stop disappointing you by being nice? What the hell is that?

 

[Devolution]

It's because you won't play Fire Emblem

I stopped really caring what my dad thought when I was a little kid. Jeeze, sorry I'm not a competitive asshole, Dad. I'll stop disappointing you by being nice? What the hell is that?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470612

Please talk about it there if you'd be so kind. Before it gets messy.

 

[BladeWorker]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470612

Please talk about it there if you'd be so kind. Before it gets messy.

Can we talk about the female equivalent here? Because I saw a passage that you quoted from the book - about girls and women who describe being a woman as "whatever they want" and I'm not sure that's really true.

I mean, the cosmetics industry wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar pull, nor would cosmetic surgery, nor would anorexia and bulimia be as significant issues as they are among girls and women if we really can "be whomever we want".

There's a bit of a debate in Ontario right now about gender selection among pregnant women - those who are opting to abort the fetus on the basis that their baby will be female - and how some hospitals, particularly in the GTA, do not disclose gender from ultrasounds. Notably, they have this policy because it's beyond a technician's scope of practice to do so, really, but now there is commentary that they're ultrasensitive to this because of gender selection.

In this environment, girls feeling so liberated is fantastic - but I don't believe that it's true. Simply because marketing of what it means to be a woman is so successfully subtle that we don't notice that it's there, does not mean that it does not exist, nor does it mean that it has no impact on how girls and women see themselves.

And there is, in many circles, a girl code that echoes the bro code, which defines social norms for girls and women - in essence, no matter who we are or what status we hold, we must obey the code. Don't sleep with another girl's man. Don't wear miniskirts after 35.

For discussion, and not necessarily because I believe that it's true, I posit: As developed society has matured, we have taken old notions of the social contract and updated it to include gendered perspectives.

My $0.02. If I'm out of scope here, happy to edit and re-post elsewhere.

 

[timetokill]

Stuff

I think this is an interesting point, and certainly worthy of discussion -- and if I may, I'd like to add my 2 cents in as well, since this point is brought up here and not in the other topic --

I think part of what the book is talking about is that women can aspire to be just about anything, or play any role, and it's considered viable as something a woman "does." I think this is because, coming from a position of being generally seen as powerless, doing something that is traditionally male is seen as empowerment.

For a lot of men, there are a lot of things that are just off the table if you want to be seen as a "man" by your fellow men and women. Nursing, or running a daycare is seen as something you simply would never aspire to if you're a man. Teaching is nearly in the same boat, though that changes based on the age you're teaching to (older = more appropriate for men). Doing these "female" jobs is emasculating, and is not seen as empowering.

We've come a long way (with miles more to go) in making women feel like they can do things that are considered traditionally male and still be women. We aren't doing the same for men, so they're feeling squeezed out. What are they supposed to do when the "girl jobs" are taken by girls and the "boy jobs" are taken by girls as well? How are they supposed to be comfortable being a man when they can't assert their manhood? They look for other, destructive ways to show it (both to the self and others).

On a weird side note, do you girls remember that song "Sex" by Berlin? This seems like a weird sort of reversal perhaps of intent. The woman can be anything, the man can only be a man.

And there is, in many circles, a girl code that echoes the bro code, which defines social norms for girls and women - in essence, no matter who we are or what status we hold, we must obey the code. Don't sleep with another girl's man.

Isn't this just "being a decent person" code? Forgive me if I'm not following your meaning.

 

[Leeness]

I really do hate that "guy code." I got the "don't be a sissy" stuff from my dad all the time.

I get that from my dad anyway, haha. "You throw like a girl!", "Don't be such a girl!"

Okay daddy

 

[Devolution]

Can we talk about the female equivalent here? Because I saw a passage that you quoted from the book - about girls and women who describe being a woman as "whatever they want" and I'm not sure that's really true.

I mean, the cosmetics industry wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar pull, nor would cosmetic surgery, nor would anorexia and bulimia be as significant issues as they are among girls and women if we really can "be whomever we want".

There's a bit of a debate in Ontario right now about gender selection among pregnant women - those who are opting to abort the fetus on the basis that their baby will be female - and how some hospitals, particularly in the GTA, do not disclose gender from ultrasounds. Notably, they have this policy because it's beyond a technician's scope of practice to do so, really, but now there is commentary that they're ultrasensitive to this because of gender selection.

In this environment, girls feeling so liberated is fantastic - but I don't believe that it's true. Simply because marketing of what it means to be a woman is so successfully subtle that we don't notice that it's there, does not mean that it does not exist, nor does it mean that it has no impact on how girls and women see themselves.

And there is, in many circles, a girl code that echoes the bro code, which defines social norms for girls and women - in essence, no matter who we are or what status we hold, we must obey the code. Don't sleep with another girl's man. Don't wear miniskirts after 35.

For discussion, and not necessarily because I believe that it's true, I posit: As developed society has matured, we have taken old notions of the social contract and updated it to include gendered perspectives.

My $0.02. If I'm out of scope here, happy to edit and re-post elsewhere.

Oh sure and Timetokill pretty much posted what I was going to. We can branch out into new and different jobs and worlds we've never been allowed into before. And he talks about how "girls" live in the guycode as well actually. I think you'd agree with what he says there. He talks about "bitch" vs "babe" and how girls enforce on each other various limitations in trying to appease guys in guyland.

 

[RawPower]

I'm always upfront with my feelings. If that makes me a girl, so be it. XD

 

[Emitan]

I'm always upfront with my feelings. If that makes me a girl, so be it. XD

Suddenly I find myself attracted to you. Did you become a woman when I wasn't looking?!

 

[RawPower]

Suddenly I find myself attracted to you. Did you become a woman when I wasn't looking?!

It must be the hair

 

[Emitan]

It must be the hair

or the breasts out of nowhere

thats were emotions come from

they hold them in their breasts. that's why we have no emotions

 

[RawPower]

or the breasts out of nowhere

thats were emotions come from

they hold them in their breasts. that's why we have no emotions

They keep them close to their hearts

 

[Deleted member 81567]

.

 

[BladeWorker]

Isn't this just "being a decent person" code? Forgive me if I'm not following your meaning.

Well, sure.

I think if we merged the bro code and the girl code, we'd rather find that we have Emily Post's rules of etiquette, Volume 1.

The only real point to take from my statement that a girl code exists, too, is that - as you say - it's a being a decent person code, we've just gendered it and added an epithet here and there.

 

[Emitan]

.

awww... don't do that

 

[BladeWorker]

Facebook is showing me ads for abortion clinics. Do they know something I don't?

 

[CleverGirl]

Is it also advertising pregnancy tests? Usually Facebook has the full range of advertisements for your situation covered.

 

[Emitan]

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

 

[Professor Beef]

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

I found it shocking that so many thought it wasn't shocking!

 

[Emitan]

I found it shocking that so many thought it wasn't shocking!

At least you and Cheska didn't know. Or else I'd feel even dumber for not realizing

OKAY I SHOULD BE ASLEEP NOW GOODNIGHT

 

[Femmeworth]

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

I wouldn't exactly go around announcing that everywhere. >_> Not that I don't trust GirlGAF.

 

[Emitan]

I wouldn't exactly go around announcing that everywhere. >_> Not that I don't trust GirlGAF.

Yeah, maybe. It's hard not to because I can't talk about it outside of the internet :/

 

[Femmeworth]

Yeah, maybe. It's hard not to because I can't talk about it outside of the internet :/

I certainly understand.

 

[Prax]

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

Makes sense! I think I saw your post where you were mulling over the possibility/realizing the description of the process fit what you were going through.
Congrats on figuring that out~!

I sometimes wondered if it would have been better if I were a guy, including having some questionable dreams, but I'm content on being a girl for now. XD If reincarnation and stuff exists, I wonder if I'd like to roll as guy next time around. But then I start thinking about culture and gender norms and wonder if that should really make a difference at all.

 

[suzu]

oops wrong thread~

edit: While I'm here..

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

Welcome

 

[Leeness]

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

Congrats. Glad you figured something (potentially) difficult out about yourself!

 

[shanshan310]

I wonder if it would be okay to ask a sex related question here. Does it go against google ad rules? Would dating-age be better? Its kind of personal..

In case you missed the news, I've realized that I'm trans (which apparenrly is not shocking to people) so I guess I'm more of an official member of Girl GAF now.

I'm really glad you've figured it out It must feel like a weight off your chest. I just hope its smooth sailing from here.

 

[Prax]

I wonder if it would be okay to ask a sex related question here. Does it go against google ad rules? Would dating-age be better? Its kind of personal..

>_> Why wouldn't it be okay? I've seen all kinds of stuff asked in OT.. XD
And you are a girl with a girl-related sex question so.. It all works out? Hahah..
Unless you're going to ask about male biology.. then maybe you would be short on answers here.

 

[Femmeworth]

I think sex related questions are fine, we just can't have threads devoted to sex. Maybe send Opiate a PM to get clearance.

 

[shanshan310]

>_> Why wouldn't it be okay? I've seen all kinds of stuff asked in OT.. XD
And you are a girl with a girl-related sex question so.. It all works out? Hahah..
Unless you're going to ask about male biology.. then maybe you would be short on answers here.

Just cause I remember something about some topics being banned a while back, I can't remember if sex was one of them. I guess I'll just see how we go with this one..


I kind of have an anxiety problem. It went away for a while, but now its back for some reason (around the same time uni started, but I don't think its related). I started getting anxious about taking too long to finish, and its sort of spiraled down into an awful situation where I'm really nervous about having sex when it starts getting to that time of night. I can't focus on enjoying it because I'm so embarrassed and panicky that I can't relax. My bf is trying to be supportive, but I still can't stop panicking. Oral sex is fine, but when it comes to something where we both reach orgasm I just.. I dunno. I really don't know what to do.

 

[Opiate]

Here's our basic rules on discussion of sexuality. Do you have a valid, reasonable question? Then you're okay. Examples include: why do I have trouble having an orgasm? Is it normal to lose interest in sex? How long do you typically wait for a relationship to become sexual?

What we try to avoid are juvenile threads about how totally awesome sex is and omg boobs are the greatest and holy cow do I love putting my penis in vaginas, also look at these hot chicks aren't they hot post some more.

While we still do need to be slightly wary of our google overlords, if you fit the former description, we likely will not complain.

I kind of have an anxiety problem. It went away for a while, but now its back for some reason (around the same time uni started, but I don't think its related). I started getting anxious about taking too long to finish, and its sort of spiraled down into an awful situation where I'm really nervous about having sex when it starts getting to that time of night. I can't focus on enjoying it because I'm so embarrassed and panicky that I can't relax. My bf is trying to be supportive, but I still can't stop panicking. Oral sex is fine, but when it comes to something where we both reach orgasm I just.. I dunno. I really don't know what to do.

Yep, this is fine.

 

[Glistening Pomegranate]

I kind of have an anxiety problem. It went away for a while, but now its back for some reason (around the same time uni started, but I don't think its related). I started getting anxious about taking too long to finish, and its sort of spiraled down into an awful situation where I'm really nervous about having sex when it starts getting to that time of night. I can't focus on enjoying it because I'm so embarrassed and panicky that I can't relax. My bf is trying to be supportive, but I still can't stop panicking. Oral sex is fine, but when it comes to something where we both reach orgasm I just.. I dunno. I really don't know what to do.

Not quite sure if I'm understanding this correctly, but do you mean you're fine reaching orgasm when receiving oral, but it doesn't happen so easy with penetration? If so, I thought that was pretty common for us girls. In fact I've never had a big O during penetration at all, only ever with oral, so you're one up on me. But if you have had them previously, all I can offer is the standard response of trying to relax more. I know that's not always easy if you're anxious about something, but I guess that's the only way it will happen. You say, "when it comes to that time of night." Do you think you could be worried about getting enough sleep with having to get up in the mornings for Uni and that it's affecting your performance and anxiety levels and exacerbating the situation? If it's possible, could you maybe switch it around and get down to it earlier in the day/evening? Sorry if that's not much help.

 

[RawPower]

Where should I go to ask questions about male sexuality then?

Serious question.

 

[Lissar]

That's a lot of text there.

I think you mean to post this either in Dating-Age or LadyGAF Advises ManGAF. This thread is for the ladies (and gentlemen) of GAF to discuss lady things.

 

[EviLore]

Off-topic and creepy, all associated posts deleted.

 

[Lissar]

Thanks for cleaning it up EviLore, it was getting a bit annoying.

 

[Leeness]

Cheers. That was...weird.

 

[shanshan310]

So there's this movie coming out...

Not quite sure if I'm understanding this correctly, but do you mean you're fine reaching orgasm when receiving oral, but it doesn't happen so easy with penetration? If so, I thought that was pretty common for us girls. In fact I've never had a big O during penetration at all, only ever with oral, so you're one up on me. But if you have had them previously, all I can offer is the standard response of trying to relax more. I know that's not always easy if you're anxious about something, but I guess that's the only way it will happen. You say, "when it comes to that time of night." Do you think you could be worried about getting enough sleep with having to get up in the mornings for Uni and that it's affecting your performance and anxiety levels and exacerbating the situation? If it's possible, could you maybe switch it around and get down to it earlier in the day/evening? Sorry if that's not much help.

thanks for your response ^^

I do worry about getting enough sleep, but I think its more of an excuse for myself ("too tired, now I don't have to put myself in that situation" type thing). It happens when sleep isn't a problem though too.

 

[Lissar]

So there's this movie coming out...

Haha, wow, I really want to see this.

 

[Devolution]

Vibrators were originally recommended for women to "calm them down" due to "hysteria."

Clitoral stimulation.