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[Chuck Berry]

Man....it's times like these where Im SO glad I dont give a fuck about framerates let alone speculation from the fruitcakes at Digital fucking Foundry.

 

[nani17]

 

[Rudius]

I'm expecting a 40 fps mode and would be disappointed if they don't provide one for the Pro.

It may only have a small CPU bump, but even a game like GTA will be GPU bound in most scenarios. 60 may prove to be too much, but 40 should be doable.

 

[Imtjnotu]

this studio got GTA 5 to run on a PS3....RDR2 to run on a PS4...

i have no doubt in my mind it can make a 60fps mode for the PRO

 

[darrylgorn]

Do we know if Dragon's Dogma or BG3 will run at 1440p, 60fps on PS5 Pro?

If the answer to those is 'no', then it's doubtful that GTA would be any different.

 

[Three]

The dev suite has the option, doesnt mean the game is built around it.

Nobody is saying that the game is definitely going to be built around 60fps. I'm asking what makes everyone so sure that it wouldn't have the option though? this 60fps option that they seem to have in their 'development suite'.

What have they shown that puts 60fps mode off the table? "NPC crowd density" is all I've heard but that's easily scalable much like everything else that doesn't affect gameplay.

 

[KaiserBecks]

I had no idea that they fucked up this badly.

Like I said, DF have an abysmal record this gen, no idea why people take their word as gospel and give them so much coverage.

It all depends on whether people like what DF have to say. It’s always been that way imo. DF backs up your opinion? They are experts. Don’t like it? They are shills. IMO they are good at analysing things that are out in the open. When it comes to speculations, they don’t know more than the next best guy.

 

[DryvBy]

WAT?!?

so what is the point of PS5 Pro really?

DF is guessing. They have no real clue.

 

[NeverYouMind]

They probably could, but they likely won't to make the version on the next console and PC releases have a selling point.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

If Sony has the marketing rights to GTA6 (as rumored), you better believe they have their engineers over at Rockstar helping make sure their "premium" machine runs this game at 60fps. That's literally the whole point of the machine and this will be the biggest game of the generation.

 

[Topher]

I had no idea that they fucked up this badly.

Like I said, DF have an abysmal record this gen, no idea why people take their word as gospel and give them so much coverage.

Particularly when we are talking about hardware they don't have and have not tested and a game that doesn't exist yet. These are the same guys who were scratching their heads, clueless as to why PS5 stood toe to toe with XSX when this gen started. And I'm not one to rip DF, but they are putting the cart before the horse here.

But again.....they are journalists first and shit like this makes them money.

 

[adamsapple]

If Sony has the marketing rights to GTA6 (as rumored), you better believe they have their engineers over at Rockstar helping make sure their "premium" machine runs this game at 60fps. That's literally the whole point of the machine and this will be the biggest game of the generation.

Marketing rights won't trump CPU deficiencies, if that's the primary bottleneck.

The dev suite has the option, doesnt mean the game is built around it

Exactly.

I'm asking what makes everyone so sure that it wouldn't have the option though?

Just historical precedent

Can it have a 60 fps mode? Of course, it's very possible. But IMO it won't as I don't see R* making two different performance profiles and have a stripped back version.

 

[XXL]

Do we know if Dragon's Dogma or BG3 will run at 1440p, 60fps on PS5 Pro?

If the answer to those is 'no', then it's doubtful that GTA would be any different.

BG3 is 1080p 60fps on PS5 in performance mode. It should be higher than 1440p on PS5 Pro probably closer to 4K.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Its been in development for so long and likely targeted all kinds of performance on all kinds of machines that i wouldnt be surprised if itll have some sort of 60 mode eventually. Zen 2 is still pretty good in 2024 if you use all the threads to the fullest and Rockstar has enough budget and talent to optimize better than any studio.

If zen2 turns out to be the limiting factor they can do "fake" 60 with frame gen, i expect a lot of aaa games (UE5 especially) to only target 30fps from now on and have performance mode just be a frame generation toggle with some small tweaks.

 

[Schmendrick]

You should know by now that some would argue GTA4 had more 'simulation' than GTA5 so it's not out of the question that the simulation might not have changed all that much

You are comparing 2 PS3 games. RDR2 happened since then.

YThe point is I've not seen anything in the reveals that show this increased CPU simulation.

No one has seen anything. We´ve seen a promo with ridiculously high NPC density that could either completely fry a CPU or not faze it at all depending on how the game handles them. Is it just a crowd system, a crowd system+ with some more or less elaborate reaction paths or is it full fledged single individual simulation with a lot of them having their own daily routines like it was in RDR2? We don`t know.
What I´m saying is that argumenting based on "why would there be more than in the 11 year old predecessor that released on PS3" seems downright stupid, sorry.

 

[Three]

If Sony has the marketing rights to GTA6 (as rumored), you better believe they have their engineers over at Rockstar helping make sure their "premium" machine runs this game at 60fps. That's literally the whole point of the machine and this will be the biggest game of the generation.

I've said before that I'm convinced that MS has it for this release. I wouldn't be surprised if they use it with new console marketing and having performance as a selling point especially with GTA "debating" a delay into 2026.

 

[XXL]

I want a 60fps mode for consoles for GTA VI, but I'm expecting it to be 30fps.

Regardless, the PS5 Pro will be the best version by a wide margin as it will be at a much higher resolution than the base consoles.

 

[JackMcGunns]

We don't know shit just like DF doesn't. Don't appeal to authority when said authority was making silly claims that Sony games are 30fps not long ago

4k/60 is just not feasible even for high end PCs, it's better to run it at 1440p or 1800p with PSSR and have more effects, don't you agree?

 

[Topher]

4k/60 is just not feasible even for high end PCs, it's better to run it at 1440p with PSSR. Leave it to the experts buddy.

Who is talking about native 4k/60 here? lol.....I think everyone here understands that R* will need to utilize PSSR to achieve 60fps on Pro.

 

[RaySoft]

I'm in!



PS4 games were designed to run on jaguar and yet we have 99.9% backwards compatibility on PS5 without any specific patches, some games even run more than 2x faster thanks to better CPU.

That a machine that was designed from the start to keep PS4 compatibility, didn't achieve 100% should tell you something. The QA for checking all games compatibility on a new core is also quite expensive. The thing is that it's a much broader job than just upgrading the cpu core and call it a day.

 

[Topher]

I want a 60fps mode for consoles for GTA VI, but I'm expecting it to be 30fps.

Regardless, the PS5 Pro will be the best version by a wide margin as it will be at a much higher resolution than the base consoles.

I really won't be surprised if the game is 30 or if it 60. I think we will have a better idea once we see more games actually running on the hardware though. This all seems incredibly premature at this point.

 

[Three]

4k/60 is just not feasible even for high end PCs, it's better to run it at 1440p or 1800p with PSSR and have more effects, don't you agree?

Nobody mentioned 4k.These have no effect on the CPU. Reducing res to reach a given framerate is different and very feasible though.

You are comparing 2 PS3 games. RDR2 happened since then.

No one has seen anything. We´ve seen a promo with ridiculously high NPC density that could either completely fry a CPU or not faze it at all depending on how the game handles them. Is it just a crowd system, a crowd system+ with some more or less elaborate reaction paths or is it full fledged single individual simulation with a lot of them having their own daily routines like it was in RDR2? We don`t know.
What I´m saying is that argumenting based on "why would there be more than in the 11 year old predecessor that released on PS3" seems downright stupid, sorry.

This is exactly my point. Isn't one of the main differences in GTA5 PS3 vs PS5 NPC/Traffic density? So what makes this lower NPC/traffic density impossible in GTA6 for a performance mode? They may decide not to do it but you can see how that has easily scaled from PS3 all the way up to PS5/PC without affecting gameplay, yes?

 

[ByWatterson]

I mean maybe but they don't know anything at all. Clowns.

 

[mitch1971]

God, we are gonna get this type or article for the next few months. A mixture of feelings and click bait. And people are gonna argue over and over about speculations. I'm out.

 

[Astray]

It all depends on whether people like what DF have to say. It’s always been that way imo. DF backs up your opinion? They are experts. Don’t like it? They are shills. IMO they are good at analysing things that are out in the open. When it comes to speculations, they don’t know more than the next best guy.

I definitely agree that bias plays a role here especially when it comes to game performance comparisons.

But they have a habit of overstating their circle of competence and "going out there" with baseless speculation for clicks. That habit has bit them in the ass more than once this gen and their credibility in my eyes has been very harmed.

Particularly when we are talking about hardware they don't have and have not tested and a game that doesn't exist yet. These are the same guys who were scratching their heads, clueless as to why PS5 stood toe to toe with XSX when this gen started. And I'm not one to rip DF, but they are putting the cart before the horse here.

But again.....they are journalists first and shit like this makes them money.

Their biggest fallacy imo is their core assumption that Consoles must must must be some form of a packaged PC and follow the same benchmark excel sheets they have.

There are certain things like how the PS5's SSD is integrated into how it runs, or how the quick resume function works on Xbox Series that just aren't matched by PCs rn and might never be matched no matter how much raw power you throw at the problem, the structure of how a PC is built and how standards are formed for it just won't ever be able to match a cohesive and focused design like Sony Xbox and Nintendo produce.

As for gaming journalism, I have been planning to start a thread about that, we are suffering through some of the absolute worst possible discussions in this year of the lord, but it's gonna be a challenge to present things and maintain a focused beneficial discussion without the thread veering into console warfare or woke/anti-woke discussions.

 

[Ozriel]

DF have become completely stupid with this shit. They really need to quit with the quasi-console warring content because it's driving the entire gaming discourse downhill at this point.

You don't have access to the game (yet), what on earth makes you informed enough to make these proclamations?

"GTA 5 is CPU-bound, therefore GTA 6 will definitely be CPU-bound" is a baseless assumption at this point in time.

Or you could read the article itself and see that they’re merely expecting it to be 30fps based on the visuals and NPC density. An opinion shared by many here on GAF. An opinion that’s all of one paragraph, buried in the middle of their PS5 Pro reveal reaction. Hows that ‘console warring’ in any way?

 

[XXL]

I really won't be surprised if the game is 30 or if it 60. I think we will have a better idea once we see more games actually running on the hardware though. This all seems incredibly premature at this point.

I agree. I have no idea why DF is hanging their hat on this so early.

 

[hinch7]

I agree. I have no idea why DF is hanging their hat on this so early.

Guessing they will cheerlead when Xbox releases their new console with 60fps standard. Or thats what they are hoping for.

At least Richard since he's the Xbox guy of the lot.

 

[Topher]

I agree. I have no idea why DF is hanging their hat on this so early.

Every single click....

 

[XXL]

Guessing they will cheerlead when Xbox releases their new console with 60fps standard. Or thats what they are hoping for.

At least Richard since he's the Xbox guy of the lot.

I'm not convinced Xbox is even releasing another console.

 

[GHG]

If GTA 6 can do 60FPS on PS5 Pro then it can do it on PS5/XSX/XSS too but with lower resolution/graphics quality.

Hmm... Where have I heard this before? Oh yeh, that's right:

Xbox Series S delivers the same core experience as Xbox Series X, just at a reduced resolution

In this video, Jason Roland, director of program management for Xbox, goes over the finer points of Xbox Series S and how it differentiates from Xbox Series...

www.vg247.com

You'd think you guys (and DF) would learn, but yet you all keep on making the same mistakes, putting your feet in your mouths.

Please continue.

 

[XXL]

Every single click....

Its strange exchanging click for reputation. Especially with this type of business.

 

[hinch7]

I'm not convinced Xbox is even releasing another console.

They're working on a new machine. Might as well be considered one, even if its not a traditional box.

 

[Wooxsvan]

Every single click....

ya they will try to play all markets for dem clicks. we'll see videos of how impressed they are with PSSR im almost certain

 

[Astray]

Or you could read the article itself and see that they’re merely expecting it to be 30fps based on the visuals and NPC density. An opinion shared by many here on GAF. An opinion that’s all of one paragraph, buried in the middle of their PS5 Pro reveal reaction. Hows that ‘console warring’ in any way?

Based on the visuals and NPC density of a single trailer for a game they don't have on a device they don't have?

There is no way to take this in good faith because it clearly isn't made in good faith.

 

[Zacfoldor]

This is a very bold statement considering how little info they have.

I'll accept their prediction, however, if they are wrong about this considering they obviously are just guessing, this will be the end of their credibility. Bold prediction. My guess is a little more mainstream, I expect a performance mode on Pro that targets 60fps. Let's see how this works out for them. The only thing protecting their credibility now is time. If GTAVI releases with a 60fps target for performance mode on the pro, DF will be exposed for their obvious bias and piss poor intentionally obtuse reasoning.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I think you should be expecting it to be 30 fps unless Rockstar uses Frame Gen.

 

[XXL]

They're working on a new machine. Might as well be considered one, even if its not a traditional box.

I know the rumors. I'm not convinced. I don't want to derail this thread though. I'm sure another thread will pop up that we can discuss further at some point.

 

[Larivel]

The white hair is from waiting for ports

 

[Schmendrick]

Nobody mentioned 4k.These have no effect on the CPU. Reducing res to reach a given framerate is different and very feasible though.

This is exactly my point. Isn't one of the main differences in GTA5 PS3 vs PS5 NPC/Traffic density? So what makes this lower NPC/traffic density impossible in GTA6 for a performance mode? They may decide not to do it but you can see how that has easily scaled from PS3 all the way up to PS5/PC without affecting gameplay, yes?

and again you`re sticking to "why would they change something"?
Maybe this 1+ billion budget game has vastly more gameplay relevant pedestrians, or missions which require dense traffic situations or or or" than its eleven year old predecessor from the Playstation 3 era.....
We´ll all have to wait and see what Rockstar actually does.
Argumenting soley based on 11 year old game design from 2 hardware gens ago is utterly pointless which I´ve to repeat yet again....(starting to feel like a parrot)

 

[JackMcGunns]

Who is talking about native 4k/60 here? lol.....I think everyone here understands that R* will need to utilize PSSR to achieve 60fps on Pro.

Nobody mentioned 4k.These have no effect on the CPU. Reducing res to reach a given framerate is different and very feasible though.

This is exactly my point. Isn't one of the main differences in GTA5 PS3 vs PS5 NPC/Traffic density? So what makes this lower NPC/traffic density impossible in GTA6 for a performance mode? They may decide not to do it but you can see how that has easily scaled from PS3 all the way up to PS5/PC without affecting gameplay, yes?

Am I missing something?

 

[Ozriel]

Based on the visuals and NPC density of a single trailer for a game they don't have on a device they don't have?

There is no way to take this in good faith because it clearly isn't made in good faith.

Yes. It’s a prediction. An opinion. They’ve never said they were 100% sure or that it was a certainty. And they weren’t alone. Lots of folks here believed it would be 30fps on base console, and nobody went into outrage mode when NXGamer made largely the same assumption.

Here’s how DF frames this in this article

However, before we go any further, there's one gigantic caveat: the first Grand Theft Auto 6 trailer launched as a 30 frames per second video. All prior GTA console titles going back to the first 3D offering, Grand Theft Auto 3, have targeted 30fps (and often fall short, depending on load). The Red Dead Redemption titles have also run at 30fps on their original host platforms. However, until Rockstar says so, the chance of a 60fps mode in GTA 6 cannot be ruled out.
Therefore, it stands to reason that if the new game does have a 60fps mode on existing consoles, it follows that GTA 6 will also have it on PS5 Pro - and it may deliver a more stable 60fps, by virtue of both its faster CPU and GPU. However, and this is the point we are making, if the consoles are running at 30fps, as seen in the trailer, the chances of the game having a 60fps mode on PS5 Pro are remote.

Dense open-world titles require a lot of GPU power to render them, but crucially, they also require a good degree of CPU throughput. The task of the CPU is to simulate the entire world and everything in it. The CPU runs the AI for all of the NPCs and the animation of those characters. In-game physics are also taken care of by the CPU. Based on what we know of the capabilities of the consoles as well as the simulation on display in the trailer, it's hard to believe that there's CPU headroom available to double performance. Remember: PS5 Pro's CPU clocks are just 10 percent higher than the standard model's.

How you guys have taken this well reasoned argument and jumped into outrage mode is a baffling thing indeed.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Digital Foundry?


Reminds me of this gem they put out years ago predicting the PS5 probably wouldn’t run Spiderman at 60fps lol

 

[Topher]

Yes. It’s a prediction. An opinion. They’ve never said they were 100% sure or that it was a certainty. And they weren’t alone. Lots of folks here believed it would be 30fps on base console, and nobody went into outrage mode when NXGamer made largely the same assumption.

Here’s how DF frames this in this article



How you guys have taken this well reasoned argument and jumped into outrage mode is a baffling thing indeed.

That doesn't jive with this though.

"I still assume that GTA VI will be a 30fps game, unless some kind of technological miracle happens, and there is no technology in the PS5 Pro that can change that."

Those two statements contradict each other. Edit: Wait....that's an article from March?

 

[PaintTinJr]

Frame generation does not improve actual game response.

It doesn't but why is this point not a well trodden path since DF started advocating for DLSS frame-gen tech?

 

[adamsapple]

Yes. It’s a prediction. An opinion. They’ve never said they were 100% sure or that it was a certainty. And they weren’t alone. Lots of folks here believed it would be 30fps on base console, and nobody went into outrage mode when NXGamer made largely the same assumption.

Here’s how DF frames this in this article



How you guys have taken this well reasoned argument and jumped into outrage mode is a baffling thing indeed.

The only caveat I see in that statement is their assumption that the Pro will have an improved CPU, which we now know is not the case.

Other than that, yeah its a fairly reasonable argument and in the absence of R* saying anything about the games tech specs, we can only make reasonable arguments.

 

[JimboJones]

Yes. It’s a prediction. An opinion. They’ve never said they were 100% sure or that it was a certainty. And they weren’t alone. Lots of folks here believed it would be 30fps on base console, and nobody went into outrage mode when NXGamer made largely the same assumption.

Here’s how DF frames this in this article



How you guys have taken this well reasoned argument and jumped into outrage mode is a baffling thing indeed.

It is strange behaviour from fanboys where they won't hold platform holders or developers to account and ignore existing information when discussing these things and inhale hopium all the way.

 

[Unrivaledx88]

WAT?!?

so what is the point of PS5 Pro really?

This is just an opinion and assumption.

 

[Three]

and again you`re sticking to "why would they change something"?
Maybe this 1+ billion budget game has vastly more gameplay relevant pedestrians, or missions which require dense traffic situations or or or" than its eleven year old predecessor from the Playstation 3 era.....
We´ll all have to wait and see what Rockstar actually does.
Argumenting soley based on 11 year old game design from 2 hardware gens ago is utterly pointless which I´ve to repeat yet again....(starting to feel like a parrot)

We'll have to wait and see but you're the one claiming with certainty that they've advanced the game to a point where it's impossible in the sequel based on a game being on PS3. my point was that we would have to wait and see since we have seen nothing to suggest vastly more gameplay relevant pedestrians/traffic. When you take into account that PS5/PC versions of that PS3 game also have higher traffic and NPC density and are 60fps, you begin to see that your point of it being a PS3 game become moot. It can go either way. Especially as there have been comments from Rockstar devs themselves to not expect vastly different gameplay or visuals than GTA5. So what exactly is the point of mentioning that GTA5 is a PS3 game when my point is that I've not seen anything vastly different in 'simulation' that hasn't already scaled in GTA5?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Think I need a break from gaf and all this idiotic PS5 pro threads. Wish I could add a topic name blacklist filter.