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[Men_in_Boxes]

There's roughly 4 genres that make waves in the multiplayer space nowadays...

1. Team based sports games.
2. Battle Royale/Extraction
3. Survival
4. Co-OP

Helldivers 2 blew up because it wasn't a fighter, it wasn't an arena shooter, it wasn't an RTS.

PlayStation identified a trendy genre, supported a studio that made games in that genre and...voila, it worked! Their "big gamble" paid off handsomely. What are the odds?

May this be a lesson to those who say publishers shouldn't "chase trends". No, they actually should.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The game still has to be fun and engaging. Which is why most fail that chase trends.

 

[bitbydeath]

Not being an FPS helps too.

 

[Gaiff]

And that all goes out the window once you realize this game had been in development for 8 years.

The studio did a game they wanted to make and it just happened to align with Sony's timetable for GAAS. It also turned out that it's a very fun game.

 

[nial]

supported a studio that made games on that genre

That has been working with SCE for over a decade. Not really chasing trends.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What if i told you there exists trends worth chasing and others not worth it at all

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

We're truly blessed with all these Men in Boxes threads

 

[DeepEnigma]

We're truly blessed with all these Men in Boxes threads

He's so trendy,

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The game still has to be fun and engaging. Which is why most fail that chase trends.

You need to get a number of things right in order to launch a successful game. "Fun and engaging" is obviously a requirement but if you're not landing in a genre gamers want to play, you're fighting a difficult uphill battle. Remember everyone raiving about how good Halo Infinites multiplayer was at that launch?

 

[SmokedMeat]

For every success there’s several failures.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You need to get a number of things right in order to launch a successful game. "Fun and engaging" is obviously a requirement but if you're not landing in a genre gamers want to play, you're fighting a difficult uphill battle. Remember everyone raiving about how good Halo Infinites multiplayer was at that launch?

Clearly fun and engaging is the main driving factor here, since their matchmaking is fubar and was not built with this much fetch in mind. And people still can't get enough and will excuse those hiccups, because, it's a damned fun and engaging gameplay loop.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

And that all goes out the window once you realize this game had been in development for 8 years.

The studio did a game they wanted to make and it just happened to align with Sony's timetable for GAAS. It also turned out that it's a very fun game.

Trends often span longer than 8 years my friend.

 

[LectureMaster]

It is successful because it is fun to play, not because it chases any trends. And begin with, those games that created the "trends" are also because they are fun to play.

Jeez, why those days people just saw some superficial facts and then make a claim as if they were the causes.

 

[Rentahamster]

You need to get a number of things right in order to launch a successful game.

So it's not just chasing trends then?

 

[Hibs]

That and you can tell the game was made with love. Lots of nice little details in the game that all add to the atmosphere.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Not being an FPS helps too.

I would prefer it in first person, to be honest. I like that it does have an ADS feature though.

 

[March Climber]

We need a new GAF AI feature for threads where you can combine two OPs into one fusion-post.

I would love to see Men_in_Boxes and HighPoly combine like Gotenks to make a mega thread about the future of graphics and gaas, and somehow it just works cohesively.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There's roughly 4 genres that make waves in the multiplayer space nowadays...

1. Team based sports games.
2. Battle Royale/Extraction
3. Survival
4. Co-OP

Helldivers 2 blew up because it wasn't a fighter, it wasn't an arena shooter, it wasn't an RTS.

PlayStation identified a trendy genre, supported a studio that made games on that genre and...voila, it worked! Their "big gamble" paid off handsomely. What are the odds?

May this be a lesson to those who say publishers shouldn't "chase trends". No, they actually should.

Ghost of Tsushima is just an Assassin's Creed game that wasn't half-assed.
Spider-Man is a big budget Arkham game.
Uncharted is Tomb Raider meets Indiana Jones.
The Last of Us is The Walking Dead meets Children of Men meets The Road.

Palworld is just pokemon meets ark

Look at the Horizon game that is just going to be Horizon meets Monster Hunter.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Clearly fun and engaging is the main driving factor here, since their matchmaking is fubar and was not built with this much fetch in mind. And people still can't get enough and will excuse those hiccups, because, it's a damned fun and engaging gameplay loop.

Some trends / genres are more fun + engaging than others.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Sanyo oughta be ashamed of funding this

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So it's not just chasing trends then?

No one said it was "just chasing trends". But chasing the correct trends is clearly a huge help.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Some trends / genres are more fun + engaging than others.

Only if said games in those genres are fun & engaging.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think a lot of it has to do with the art style, colour pallette and Starship troopers vibe.

If this game swapped in a modern military setting with AK47s and downtown looking maps, it'd bomb.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Only if said games in those genres are fun & engaging.

The RTS genre used to be fun and engaging for a lot of people. Then it wilted considerably.

 

[Hugare]

There's a diference between asking Naughty Dog and other single player focused companies to make a GAAS game vs asking a developer to make a sequel (that improves upon the last game but doesnt reinvent the wheel)

And they had 8 years

Just like Marathon would fit with Bungie and their previous games

Ruining developers that are known for other genres just to follow the GAAS trend is the real crime

 

[touchfuzzy]

I really don't think the dev was chasing trends, it's basically the same concept and idea as Helldivers 1 which came out almost ten years ago.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The RTS genre used to be fun and engaging for a lot of people. Then it wilted considerably.

Exactly.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The RTS genre used to be fun and engaging for a lot of people. Then it wilted considerably.

I never played RTS games.

But way back RTS was everywhere, and some games were solid from what I'd read or see my bro playing. Then the genre kind of disappeared aside from Starcraft keeping going. You never hear of RTS ever know. Although MOBA is a different kind of RTS.

But all those 90s and early 2000s strategy RTS games in sci settings or WWII etc.... what happened? You dont even hear about the genre anymore.

 

[Rentahamster]

No one said it was "just chasing trends". But chasing the correct trends is clearly a huge help.

When the title literally says "Helldivers 2 shows us that chasing trends works", it's meant to imply that chasing trends is a large part of a game's success. Your entire thesis was build on how Playstation identified a trend, and funded a studio to make a game in that trend, without anything else that goes into making a successful game.

When you also don't mention the many other times that chasing trends didn't actually work, it's hard for anyone to take your point seriously.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

ehhh, I don't think PvE is a trend. They've been pretty few and far between.

 

[bitbydeath]

I would prefer it in first person, to be honest. I like that it does have an ADS feature though.

FPS needs an overhaul to how we see things in real life. IMO. We have the power to do it now.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There's a diference between asking Naughty Dog and other single player focused companies to make a GAAS game vs asking a developer to make a sequel (that improves upon the last game but doesnt reinvent the wheel)

And they had 8 years

Just like Marathon would fit with Bungie and their previous games

Ruining developers that are known for other genres just to follow the GAAS trend is the real crime

I think this is a bogus narrative if you simply think about it for a few monents.

Think about a studios composition.

Do animators care if they're working on a SP or a MP game? Of course not. Do texture artists care if they're working on a SP or MP game? Nope. Do sound engineers care? Unlikely. Do UI artists care? Nope.

Most people in a studio can flex between SP and MP with ease.

A studio like Naughty Dog clearly has tons of expertise in the above fields, which means building a multiplayer team within the studio would be very doable. The only people who can't flex would be writers and thosr who work on cutscenes.

Shift those people to the SP projects and hire a few employees who specialize in networking and multiplayer design and you're really not talking about building a whole new animal from the ground up.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Jesus christ can't some of you just deal with the reality that some games are just...good games...and fun?

HD is fucking good. That's why everyone is playing.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

When the title literally says "Helldivers 2 shows us that chasing trends works", it's meant to imply that chasing trends is a large part of a game's success.

Oh it absolutely is.

If production and fit & finish of Helldivers 2 is anything but elite. It's not a AAA studio by a long shot. They're outcompeting many AAA studios right now because they made a game in a genre that speaks to people.

Think grunge music in 1992. There were great metal records being made back then but the grunge genre spoke to more people. Obviously not all grunge records sold well back then either.

 

[StueyDuck]

There's roughly 4 genres that make waves in the multiplayer space nowadays...

1. Team based sports games.
2. Battle Royale/Extraction
3. Survival
4. Co-OP

Helldivers 2 blew up because it wasn't a fighter, it wasn't an arena shooter, it wasn't an RTS.

PlayStation identified a trendy genre, supported a studio that made games in that genre and...voila, it worked! Their "big gamble" paid off handsomely. What are the odds?

May this be a lesson to those who say publishers shouldn't "chase trends". No, they actually should.

I guess that big 2 In the title is a bit difficult to understand.

It means it's a sequel to a game that already existed

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Jesus christ can't some of you just deal with the reality that some games are just...good games...and fun?

HD is fucking good. That's why everyone is playing.

Imagine being in the war room at a giant publisher and they're talking about what games to make over the next 10 years.

If you blurted out "Let's just make good games everyone", it would be awkward AF. That's not particularly helpful when discussing industry trends.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I guess that big 2 In the title is a bit difficult to understand.

It means it's a sequel to a game that already existed

Trends exist over various lengths of time. The coop genre existed before Left 4 Dead. It wasn't nearly as lucrative or impactful as it is today.

Y'all can picture what a line graph looks like right?

 

[Hugare]

I think this is a bogus narrative if you simply think about it for a few monents.

Think about a studios composition.

Do animators care if they're working on a SP or a MP game? Of course not. Do texture artists care if they're working on a SP or MP game? Nope. Do sound engineers care? Unlikely. Do UI artists care? Nope.

Most people in a studio can flex between SP and MP with ease.

A studio like Naughty Dog clearly has tons of expertise in the above fields, which means building a multiplayer team within the studio would be very doable. The only people who can't flex would be writers and thosr who work on cutscenes.

Shift those people to the SP projects and hire a few employees who specialize in networking and multiplayer design and you're really not talking about building a whole new animal from the ground up.

They absolutely care

The animator has the option to animate cutscenes in a narrative driven game or animate weapons on a GAAS shooter. They are not the same.

Ask a ND texture artist if he would rather work on the next TLOU game or some Battle Royale game

Ask the sound engineer if he would rather work on the next Ghost of Tsushima or some looter shooter

You are oblivious. Devs spend huge chunks of their lives on those games. Talented developers choose their projects. That's why its hard to retain talent on your studio after a game is done. You have to keep making interesting projects to retain talent.

You really think that if ND decides to make Crash or Jak games from now on, the same artists would remain there?

 

[ComputerBlue]

You know what it shows me, that EA is so stupid because they’ve got some great Mass Effect multiplayer that is similar to this in several ways, yet they refused to do anything about it.

 

[Rentahamster]

Oh it absolutely is.

Not when there's so many examples where it fails. Helldivers 2 shows us that chasing trends works. Sometimes. Except when it doesn't.

Think grunge music in 1992. There were great metal records being made back then but the grunge genre spoke to more people. Obviously not all grunge records sold well back then either.

Think chasing trends to make successful video games. There were great games being made but chasing trends spoke to more people. Obviously not all attempts to chase trends sold well either.

If that's the case, then "chasing trends" doesn't actually work. It's something more fundamental to video games and human entertainment than that.

 

[StueyDuck]

Trends exist over various lengths of time. The coop genre existed before Left 4 Dead. It wasn't nearly as lucrative or impactful as it is today.

Y'all can picture what a line graph looks like right?

Is it really trend chasing then if you are just going talk about a game that released over 10 years ago

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

They absolutely care

The animator has the option to animate cutscenes in a narrative driven game or animate weapons on a GAAS shooter. They are not the same.

Ask a ND texture artist if he would rather work on the next TLOU game or some Battle Royale game

Ask the sound engineer if he would rather work on the next Ghost of Tsushima or some looter shooter

You are oblivious. Devs spend huge chunks of their lives on those games. Talented developers choose their projects. That's why its hard to retain talent on your studio after a game is done. You have to keep making interesting projects to retain talent.

You really think that if ND decides to make Crash or Jak games from now on, the same artists would remain there?

I think those developers really only care about hitting financial incentives. They want steady work that benefits their bank accounts. You don't join a AAA studio if you're driven by making creative choices.

 

[bitbydeath]

The coop genre existed before Left 4 Dead. It wasn't nearly as lucrative or impactful as it is today.

I disagree with that.
Online diminished co-op, before that it was massive.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Is it really trend chasing then if you are just going talk about a game that released over 10 years ago

You don't think trends can exist over a 10 year period?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The game still has to be fun and engaging. Which is why most fail that chase trends.

Needs staying power, have seen a lot of games blow up for a couple of weeks then vanish

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I disagree with that.
Online diminished co-op, before that it was massive.

Which co-op games, pre online, were bigger than Left 4 Dead, Destiny, Deep Rock Galactic, Warframe, and now Helldivers 2?

 

[StueyDuck]

I disagree with that.
Online diminished co-op, before that it was massive.

Absolutely. The ps360 era was the last huzzah for actual fun co-op.

Sure we get a few great games here n there like wildlands or HD2 but devs absolutely hate co-op these days.

Like basically all games at this point should be co-op barring very few titles.

Any call of duty campaign should be co-op, jedi survivor? How would that game have not been infinitely better with a bud doing dually sabers.

Elden ring seamless co-op mod is the best way to play that game I'm finding out on my 3rd playthrough with mates

 

[StueyDuck]

You don't think trends can exist over a 10 year period?

In the video game industry that is barely even 50 years old...

Yes I don't think you can call 10 years a trend.

Basically you may as well say "well see you can move in this game just like that trend Mario started"

 

[bitbydeath]

Which co-op games, pre online, were bigger than Left 4 Dead, Destiny, Deep Rock Galactic, Warframe, and now Helldivers 2?

Gaming has increased in popularity since so that measure won’t work, but it used to be a lot more common to include in games.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I mean HD1 is a thing right? HD2 is an iteration of that base.

for what i have seen I would say that is the opposite, they approached the "chasing trends" in their own way not just copy-paste.q