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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
VanMardigan said:
I'll state this and hopefully we can move on: I thought the standalone comment was relevant because:

1. It's true

2. It's ONE factor in determining HD DVD's overall current health

3. I didn't overstate its significance.
Click to expand...

If you didn't 'overstate' its significance, then you certainly 'understated' that the number of PS3s are selling through at a much higher rate than stand alones.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
It was the comparison. From now on, I'll add to the list of why BluRay will win the millions of more players.

Hey everybody, BluRay has millions of more players than HD-DVD. MILLIONS. War is already over, obviously. La la la.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
SanjuroTsubaki said:
I payed $400 for a console to play games on not watch Blu-Ray movies. I would never pay that ammount of money to watch a leftover movies on a format that might fail. Has nothing to do with the quality of the player which was fine.
Click to expand...
...and yet your looking for an HD DVD player when YOU ALREADY HAD A PS3 to play your high def movies.
 
O

Omar Ismail

Banned
People talking about one format winning over another need a bit more perspective. A few weeks ago I attended the talk given by the author of the Strategy Paradox where he goes into detail about the format war. Well he said some pretty surprising things.

In the first 3 years of Betamax's existence Sony controlled a HUGE portion of the home video market, like 90% or something crazy like that. For three years! It wasn't until video rental services came out that the switch started to happen, and it happened quite quickly.

So what's the point of this post? Just saying that arguing over which format has won this week and by how much is probably the most futile of exercises. Formats last decades, and even a year long trend can be totally reversed by factors completely unknown to almost everybody.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Omar Ismail said:
People talking about one format winning over another need a bit more perspective. A few weeks ago I attended the talk given by the author of the Strategy Paradox where he goes into detail about the format war. Well he said some pretty surprising things.

In the first 3 years of Betamax's existence Sony controlled a HUGE portion of the home video market, like 90% or something crazy like that. For three years! It wasn't until video rental services came out that the switch started to happen, and it happened quite quickly.

So what's the point of this post? Just saying that arguing over which format has won this week and by how much is probably the most futile of exercises. Formats last decades, and even a year long trend can be totally reversed by factors completely unknown to almost everybody.
Click to expand...
And for th like the 1000th time betamax vs VHS != Blu-ray vs HD DVD, not to mention Sony isnt getting sued by universal over "fair use" for home entertainment and copyright infringement, or whatever else was in that suit over betamax.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
Hey everybody, BluRay has millions of more players than HD-DVD. MILLIONS. War is already over, obviously. La la la.
Click to expand...

See, that's what I DIDN'T do when mentioning the standalone comparison. Hopefully now you get the difference between what I did and what you just did there (sarcastically).

Crayon, I understand the Ps3 effect. I've never, ever downlplayed it on this thread.
 
H

heavy liquid

Member
Omar Ismail said:
People talking about one format winning over another need a bit more perspective. A few weeks ago I attended the talk given by the author of the Strategy Paradox where he goes into detail about the format war. Well he said some pretty surprising things.

In the first 3 years of Betamax's existence Sony controlled a HUGE portion of the home video market, like 90% or something crazy like that. For three years! It wasn't until video rental services came out that the switch started to happen, and it happened quite quickly.

So what's the point of this post? Just saying that arguing over which format has won this week and by how much is probably the most futile of exercises. Formats last decades, and even a year long trend can be totally reversed by factors completely unknown to almost everybody.
Click to expand...

Yup. So few people are in on either format, that the numbers can't tell me that much. What I would be concerned with, is what the undecided people are going to do? Right now, 1% of precincts are reporting, what's that other 99% of the population going to do? It may be a while before we really find out.
 
O

Omar Ismail

Banned
captive said:
And for th like the 1000th time betamax vs VHS != Blu-ray vs HD DVD, not to mention Sony isnt getting sued by universal over "fair use" for home entertainment and copyright infringement, or whatever else was in that suit over betamax.
Click to expand...

It helps if you understand the point. The only parallel that's needed is that it's a format war. And in format wars where the format lasts for DECADES, the performance of a few months, or even a few years can have little bearing on the overall future. So this entire 4000 post discussion is little more than intellectual masturbation. Which is fine if you're into that kind of thing.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Omar Ismail said:
It helps if you understand the point. The only parallel that's needed is that it's a format war. And in format wars where the format lasts for DECADES, the performance of a few months, or even a few years can have little bearing on the overall future. So this entire 4000 post discussion is little more than intellectual masturbation. Which is fine if you're into that kind of thing.
Click to expand...
betamax vs vhs didnt last DECADES, and blu-ray vs hd dvd will not last a DECADE, learn more.
And if blu-ray vs hd dvd lasts anything more than a couple years i would not be shocked if we were stuck with DVD much like we are stuck with CD because DVD-A and SACD never got along.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Grabbed 300 from that link, but it's not really that much of a deal. At Amazon with the bonus 10% discount it'd be about $19 shipped instead of $16 and it'd probably arrive sooner.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Van, I don't think you get my point at all.

I'm resisting that 300 deal because it's soooo cheap, but I don't really want the movie! It was pretty, but meh.
 
D

distantmantra

Member
Bebpo said:
Grabbed 300 from that link, but it's not really that much of a deal. At Amazon with the bonus 10% discount it'd be about $19 shipped instead of $16 and it'd probably arrive sooner.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I'm in no rush to get it, and $2 less is $2 less.
 
Christopher

Christopher

Member
Bebpo said:
Grabbed 300 from that link, but it's not really that much of a deal. At Amazon with the bonus 10% discount it'd be about $19 shipped instead of $16 and it'd probably arrive sooner.
Click to expand...

What 10%?
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Omar Ismail said:
The only parallel that's needed is that it's a format war.
Click to expand...
Not quite. A significant difference between the Betamax vs VHS faceoff and this one is that there was no existing market for prerecorded video content then, but there's obviously a huge market for it now. There isn't nearly the same kind of pioneering effort required here, esp. when you can piggyback on market progress thus far via backward compatability and a host of established business models.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Invoking the name "Betamax" is an equal credibility-killer. I get the point the poster is trying to make, but the situation is far different. Specifically, it won't be nearly 10 years of niche-market before one of these format goes to mainstream pricing, as was the case with Betamax.

In other words, the event horizon is a lot closer and thus the discrepency in sales a lot more meaningful.


Plus, BluRay has an installed base of millions more than HD-DVD.
 
D

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
i'll import the children of men bd if the transfer's on point. that's definitely the hd-dvd exclusive i want most
 
K

Klotera

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Invoking the name "Betamax" is an equal credibility-killer. I get the point the poster is trying to make, but the situation is far different. Specifically, it won't be nearly 10 years of niche-market before one of these format goes to mainstream pricing, as was the case with Betamax.

In other words, the event horizon is a lot closer and thus the discrepency in sales a lot more meaningful.


Plus, BluRay has an installed base of millions more than HD-DVD.
Click to expand...

I don't see why it's a credibility killer. The details may not be the exact same, but there are some parallels. While it likely won't be a 10-year niche market, considering the install base of hdtv's minus the people who still think hooking up RCA cables is enough to take advantage of it, you're still talking a relatively small market.

Someone's earlier comment about 1% precincts reporting is actually an even better analogy though, since it removes the comparisons and the contrasts and focuses on the core concept of "the market isn't big enough yet to declare a winner".

I'll give you that blu-ray has an advantage, but you can't proclaim that anyone who doesn't declare it the winner a fanboy or delusional or lacking sense or whatever. Just ask all the "experts" at ESPN that said the Cardinals had no chance to win the World Series last year :)
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Why does no one compare the two formats to laserdisc? Sure there wasn't a format war there, but laserdisc was better quality, niche, expensive, and j6p couldn't notice much of a difference.

I was just in a store buying some stuff for work and the guy in front of me asked the store employee, "What's the difference between a CD and a DVD?"...yeah, j6p will never figure out HD film formats as complex as they are atm.
 
S

SRG01

Member
Bebpo said:
Why does no one compare the two formats to laserdisc? Sure there wasn't a format war there, but laserdisc was better quality, niche, expensive, and j6p couldn't notice much of a difference.

I was just in a store buying some stuff for work and the guy in front of me asked the store employee, "What's the difference between a CD and a DVD?"...yeah, j6p will never figure out HD film formats as complex as they are atm.
Click to expand...

Personally, LD never took off because of the size issue.

Seriously, I can really imagine a person picking up a LD and saying "It's too big and bulky!!"


(That, and I think they also had production issues with pressing LDs IIRC?)
 
H

HyperionX

Member
I think one thing people forget is that HD-DVD and Blu-ray are backwards compatible with DVDs. That means there's no reason why HD discs must "replace" DVDs, they will just merge into the DVD market and takeover the market once DVD player sales have been phased out. Hence, it's likely impossible for both formats to fail, and comparisons to LD are just wrong. So it certainly looks like Blu-ray will soon become the standard media format after a few years.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Klotera said:
I'll give you that blu-ray has an advantage, but you can't proclaim that anyone who doesn't declare it the winner a fanboy or delusional or lacking sense or whatever.
Click to expand...

That's not what I am saying. I'm talking about all the people who seem to thing HD-DVD is doing "OK" or even has a strong chance.

HD-DVD has a marginal chance...

IF low-price players spark sales
IF studios respond with software
IF people buy the software
IF Disney, Paramount and Sony support HD-DVD.

That's a lot of IFs.
 
R

rubso

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
That's not what I am saying. I'm talking about all the people who seem to thing HD-DVD is doing "OK" or even has a strong chance.

HD-DVD has a marginal chance...

IF low-price players spark sales
IF studios respond with software
IF people buy the software
IF Disney, Paramount and Sony support HD-DVD.

That's a lot of IFs.
Click to expand...
Both of them (HDDVD/bluray) sucked, none of them are doing OK.
 
The Main Event

The Main Event

Member
Might think of upgrading my HD-A2 player with this one this fall :)

http://whathifi.co.uk/home-cinema/archive/2007/05/28/behind-the-scenes-at-onkyo.aspx

DV-HD805.jpg


Onkyo has been a member of the HD DVD Promotion Group since before the format’s launch last April. They are now trickling out details on their upcoming DV-HD805 HD DVD player. The unit is based on Toshiba’s flagship player the HD-XA2. We expect the player to have HDMI 1.3 as well as DTS-HD Master Audio support (no word on decoding in player). Look for a ship date in the fall.
Click to expand...

Wonder how much it'll cost...
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
rubso said:
Both of them (HDDVD/bluray) sucked, none of them are doing OK.
Click to expand...


Standard fallback answer from HD-DVD backer whenever BluRay's advantages are noted.

Sucking compared to what? DVD at this point was not doing as well, and that's without the HDTV hurdle to cross.
 
R

rubso

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Standard fallback answer from HD-DVD backer whenever BluRay's advantages are noted.

Sucking compared to what? DVD at this point was not doing as well, and that's without the HDTV hurdle to cross.
Click to expand...
set back, relax, and watch some HD-DVDs and Blu-ray until the year 2009 (maybe 2010), you might see some improvements regarding the format war in that time..
 
R

rubso

Banned
djkimothy said:
Sucked compared to what? An established format in DVD? Apple's to oranges man.

It is HDDVD's sales that are sucking compared to Blu-ray.
Click to expand...
you're getting defensive, you don't have to believe me =)
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
9.99 300 denied. :-(

Dear Sir :

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Click to expand...
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
captive said:
...and yet your looking for an HD DVD player when YOU ALREADY HAD A PS3 to play your high def movies.
Click to expand...
Sigh...I get drunk come back and more nonsense. A PS3 costs at least $300 dollars more than it would for a $90 HD-DVD add-on for me.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
SanjuroTsubaki said:
Sigh...I get drunk come back and more nonsense. A PS3 costs at least $300 dollars more than it would for a $90 HD-DVD add-on for me.
Click to expand...
news flash. YOU ALREADY OWNED IT.
Thats like me selling my brand new polk floorstanding and bookshelf speakers that im going to use for 7.1 because i want 7.1 surround sound and then coming in here and saying HAY GUYS, I WANT 7.1 BUT I JUST SOLD THE 6 SPEAKERS I JUST BOUGHT AND THAT I WAS GOING TO USE FOR 7.1. Yea there would be quite a few people calling me an idiot too.

How do you not see why people are having a problem with you?

YOU ALREADY PAID FOR A HIGH DEF PLAYER, and to top it off, you come into the "blu-ray/HD DVD: blu-ray takeover watch ask which format is selling better then when people tell you, you call them sony trolls in the "blu-ray takeover watch thread" AND THEN, as if you hadnt proved your self lacking in the intelligence department enough as it is, you then state that you want an HD DVD player, and couple that statement that you dont want to spend money on a format that has a good chance to fail.

Contradict yourself less, maybe people will take you seriously. Maybe you should keep drinking, at least you didnt contradict yourself in your last sentence, although i have no idea where you plan on picking up a 90 dollar hd dvd drive to addon to a 360, but whatever.
 
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