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[BadBurger]

This entire affair reminds me of a quote I once read from a sports writer of all people during the MLB lockout:

If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn't take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.

The Yankees are not the Yankees if Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra don't win. Without the best players, they aren't in the World Series, and without championships, they're little more than an organization in a big market whose laundry features pinstripes. One would think, then, that a league would recognize that its profits exist because of Shohei Ohtani, Fernando Tatis Jr., Mike Trout, Juan Soto, Mookie Betts, Ronald Acuña Jr., Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and others -- and would see players' concerns about the state of the game not as trivial or excessive or outrageous, but vital.

These execs and CEO's are easily replaceable. They're sponges. They add little value, arguably none. They come and go and their presence has no effect on the quality or output of the creative endeavors they oversee.

Meanwhile, the value of their services are completely dependent upon their writers, actors, and crews. For example, and I'm using them as an example since their returning CEO seemed to want to see his workers go homeless before he even offered them enough money to have health insurance, Disney's television division generates about $3bn a year in profits. None of these ghoulish execs have anything to do with that - it's their writers and actors who carry them to and then over that line.

I also find these CEO's statements so deeply disingenuous. Such as when they claim they offered historic increases for residuals. Well of course they're historic when in previous contracts these true creators made living wages from residuals, but after streaming they now make like 74 cents a payout (Google it). Just offering an increase to something far less than what they paid out prior will be historic comparatively.

And kudos to the poster who tried to childishly make fun of a writer due to their looks, unknowingly helping to prove that writer's point. That was a perfect example of the type of Idiocracy character come to life who actually supports these C-suite villains.

 

[Nobody_Important]

More detail on just how unreasonable the studios are being.






The studios seem to be playing hardball over inconsequential shit for no reason other than just playing hardball. Its petty and unnecessary. Not only that they seem to be willing to die on hills regarding basic common sense and decency. Its absolutely ridiculous.


Can't wait to hear how its really the union being unreasonable though. The amount of hand waving involved could power a wind farm for a year.

 

[FunkMiller]

Can't wait to hear how its really the union being unreasonable though. The amount of hand waving involved could power a wind farm for a year.

It wouldn’t matter if the actors had asked to not have their legs broken during a shoot, and the AMPTP had rejected it… people in this thread, and on social media, would still defend the studio‘s position. Because that’s where we are with public discourse these days. It’s not about analysing the situation fairly or knowledgeably. It’s about defending the corner of whichever political ideology you happen to follow.… despite the fact that politics is not the core of any of why this is happening.

And that deal list is full of some of the most mean spirited horseshit I’ve ever seen. There are conditions SAG are asking for that would barely cost the studios anything at all to implement. And they just flat out rejected them. The AMPTP are clearly absolutely contemptuous of the acting profession. Maybe they’ve been on Twitter too much

 

[Nobody_Important]

It wouldn’t matter if the actors had asked to not have their legs broken during a shoot, and the AMPTP had rejected it… people in this thread, and on social media, would still defend the studio‘s position. Because that’s where we are with public discourse these days. It’s not about analysing the situation fairly or knowledgeably. It’s about defending the corner of whichever political ideology you happen to follow.… despite the fact that politics is not the core of any of why this is happening.

And that deal list is full of some of the most mean spirited horseshit I’ve ever seen. There are conditions SAG are asking for that would barely cost the studios anything at all to implement. And they just flat out rejected them. The AMPTP are clearly absolutely contemptuous of the acting profession. Maybe they’ve been on Twitter too much

Yep and its sad. People will shit on the objective fact that they are not asking for much solely because they FEEL like the industry is against them for inane and ridiculous reasons.


Which is pretty funny when you consider that "facts not feelings" was a battlecry not too long ago.

 

[CGNoire]

And if the actors and writers stick to their guns on this, it's going to go on for months, and entire movie companies (looking at you, WB) could fail.

GOOD!

 

[FunkMiller]

GOOD!

Regardless of where you land in terms of support for the writers and actors, I very much doubt there are many people who would be sad to see some of these companies go to the wall. They've been putting out substandard shit for years now, and Hollywood very definitely needs a correction on the scale of what happened in the 60s, when most of the majors collapsed.

 

[Clear]

GOOD!

And after they go to the wall, who's going to employ them?

The reality is that Hollywood is run by hedge-fund managers who really don't give a shit about anything but turning a profit on their investments. If the opportunities aren't in film and tv they'll simply put their funds elsewhere. Like big-tech companies who provide entertainment content sourced almost exclusively from independent contractors.

Sorry, but I just don't see where their leverage is. Especially given the current state of the economy and the fractured political climate of the last few years this seem even more futile than the 2007 WGA strike, and I expect the outcome to be basically the same.

 

[FunkMiller]

This one is so fucked up:




Can you imagine anyone, in any job, in any field, in any country, putting up with the idea of their bosses admitting they don't pay on time, and rejecting any calls for them to do so?

"Well Doctor Smith, we know we haven't paid you for the last three months of work, but we're not going to guarantee when you do get it. Now get back in the surgery."

 

[DeafTourette]

This one is so fucked up:




Can you imagine anyone, in any job, in any field, in any country, putting up with the idea of their bosses admitting they don't pay on time, and rejecting any calls for them to do so?

"Well Doctor Smith, we know we haven't paid you for the last three months of work, but we're not going to guarantee when you do get it. Now get back in the surgery."

I hope no one defends this.

 

[FullMetalx117]

This entire affair reminds me of a quote I once read from a sports writer of all people during the MLB lockout:



These execs and CEO's are easily replaceable. They're sponges. They add little value, arguably none. They come and go and their presence has no effect on the quality or output of the creative endeavors they oversee.

Meanwhile, the value of their services are completely dependent upon their writers, actors, and crews. For example, and I'm using them as an example since their returning CEO seemed to want to see his workers go homeless before he even offered them enough money to have health insurance, Disney's television division generates about $3bn a year in profits. None of these ghoulish execs have anything to do with that - it's their writers and actors who carry them to and then over that line.

I also find these CEO's statements so deeply disingenuous. Such as when they claim they offered historic increases for residuals. Well of course they're historic when in previous contracts these true creators made living wages from residuals, but after streaming they now make like 74 cents a payout (Google it). Just offering an increase to something far less than what they paid out prior will be historic comparatively.

And kudos to the poster who tried to childishly make fun of a writer due to their looks, unknowingly helping to prove that writer's point. That was a perfect example of the type of Idiocracy character come to life who actually supports these C-suite villains.

Great quote and agree in general the MLB is as big as it is today because of the great players that have played. But let me defend the CEOs for a minute:

Contrary to popular belief, being a CEO or a leader of any organization, it's a TOUGH job. I always wanted to be a CEO of a major company growing up, but now after experiencing some managerial roles I want nothing to do with it. There's nothing worse than having to manage, keeping an eye on people to make sure things get done. I'd much rather have someone hand me a task, let me focus on that task solo, and then be done with it. As a manager, you're running around, calling multiple people, taking care of it yourself if you don't trust the worker, etc. You're responsible in making sure things just work, and if you're managing a company with 1000s of people, then livelihoods are one the line. This stuff isn't automatic.

Now entertainment and sports. While yes the stars should be credited with how valuable these industries are today, you have to remember that sports/entertainment are a tertiary level of economy. It's something that comes in focus after people have obtained leisure time - when basics of the economy such as food, shelter, sanitation, health care, etc. have been achieved. These industries are only important today because the world has come so far. Just as easily you can argue that Yankees became who they are because of Babe Ruth, I can also argue people only know of Babe Ruth because of the yankees. The organization is the entity that made his face front and center with marketing/branding, gave him the platform to show off his skills in the first place. It was a symbiotic relationship.

 

[jason10mm]

Hasn't the MLB in a looonnnnggggg decline? Seems like you COULD cut out all the players and the next 1200 to step up would all play relatively the same against themselves and with in a few years everything would be fine. So what MLB REALLY needs are new execs to make it popular again!

Same with actors. I have my favorites but there is no mystery to it, there are THOUSANDS of potential oscar winners out there and every year a fresh crop of fine young things come and go in the industry. The folks that keep the machine running are the real vital force, you can just grab randos off the street, feed them lines through an earpiece, and get a movie done. Same with most writers. SO MUCH of what they do is just recycled from other things, laying out plodding dialogue to get from one scene of exposition to the next with meaningless double speak:

"I'm afraid of you."
"What about me makes you scared?"
"I'm too scared to say."
"Maybe what scares you about me is that you are too afraid of yourself."
"Oh, just kiss me you devil!"

Obviously there are sharp scripts with exquisite plotting out there, I suspect there are hundreds of them in a drawer somewhere that an exec could pull out. Writers are not rare.

 

[funkygunther]

I suspect there are hundreds of them in a drawer somewhere that an exec could pull out.

what‘s been stopping them?

 

[EviLore]

These execs and CEO's are easily replaceable. They're sponges. They add little value, arguably none. They come and go and their presence has no effect on the quality or output of the creative endeavors they oversee.

Kathleen Kennedy certainly has an effect on the quality and output of Lucasfilm's creative endeavors. Kevin Feige certainly has an effect on how the MCU turned out.

There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in the business world. Hugely influential decisions are made that we only see the downstream effects of, relationships are built that facilitate things getting made that could not be made otherwise.

 

[Rentahamster]

Just as easily you can argue that Yankees became who they are because of Babe Ruth, I can also argue people only know of Babe Ruth because of the yankees. The organization is the entity that made his face front and center with marketing/branding, gave him the platform to show off his skills in the first place. It was a symbiotic relationship.

Just as easily?

If you magically replaced all of the professional MLB players with random people from the phonebook, the quality of the sport would go to shit. If you magically replaced all of the MLB team owners with random people from the phonebook, they'd still survive. Hell, they might even improve lol.

 

[FunkMiller]

Obviously there are sharp scripts with exquisite plotting out there, I suspect there are hundreds of them in a drawer somewhere that an exec could pull out. Writers are not rare.

Not how it works. A script will be bought by a studio, but any decent screenwriter will have a reversion clause in their contract if the script is not greenlit for production within a certain time. Same applies to options on novels. They always revert.

‘Option’ periods can last for up to two years, but scripts always go back to the writer if they are not made.

 

[BadBurger]

Kathleen Kennedy certainly has an effect on the quality and output of Lucasfilm's creative endeavors. Kevin Feige certainly has an effect on how the MCU turned out.

There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in the business world. Hugely influential decisions are made that we only see the downstream effects of, relationships are built that facilitate things getting made that could not be made otherwise.

Yes, but they're actually hands-on producers, they insert themselves into the creative process at even the ground level. Feige pretty much outlines the entire Marvel CU for example, so he's kind of a writer amongst his various duties.

On the other hand, the random C-suite folks who are the collective voice behind the studios' negotiations don't seem to have any meaningful input to the process of creating individual works of art. They make decisions that broadly affect the org, or green light or halt funding, but they're not responsible for the product people are paying money for.

IMO, the only good those types seem to ever do is on the rare occasion some rich producer gives an inspiring young creator a shot and throws them a little funding or picks up distribution of their indie film - and we end getting a new avant writer or auteur director.

 

[EviLore]

Yes, but they're actually hands-on producers, they insert themselves into the creative process at even the ground level. Feige pretty much outlines the entire Marvel CU for example, so he's kind of a writer amongst his various duties.

On the other hand, the random C-suite folks who are the collective voice behind the studios' negotiations don't seem to have any meaningful input to the process of creating individual works of art. They make decisions that broadly affect the org, or green light or halt funding, but they're not responsible for the product people are paying money for.

IMO, the only good those types seem to ever do is on the rare occasion some rich producer gives an inspiring young creator a shot and throws them a little funding or picks up distribution of their indie film - and we end getting a new avant writer or auteur director.

When the company is running well and decisions are consistently good the c suite might be invisible to the public, but the stakes are enormous. Big studios have gone under many times, in some cases from a single bad decision. Billions of dollars are on the line with every movie now. You’re vastly oversimplifying what it takes to run a huge company.

The MLB example is an edge case because there is very little agency a team has within the rules of the league. Companies don’t usually work like that.

 

[BadBurger]

When the company is running well and decisions are consistently good the c suite might be invisible to the public, but the stakes are enormous. Big studios have gone under many times, in some cases from a single bad decision. Billions of dollars are on the line with every movie now. You’re vastly oversimplifying what it takes to run a huge company.

The MLB example is an edge case because there is very little agency a team has within the rules of the league. Companies don’t usually work like that.

Sure, any business can fail due to the poor decisions of a handful of people who are granted too much authority, and even non-sports industries like this have to follow rules and regulations, but it doesn't change my mind about the function and importance of non-creative executives in Hollywood. You and others in this thread raise good points, but, every informed anecdote, story, book, or news article I've read about the machinations of Hollywood, even the boring non-salacious ones, paint the same picture which is why my opinion is what it is. (Edit: which is basically that while various people exist within studios to make it run, the execs who seem to do the least are walking away with the vast lion's share of the rewards).

At the end of the day I only hope the writers get fairly compensated and both them and the small-time actors get to stop having to jump through the hoops they're jumping through now just to seek employment. Because regardless of how any of us feel about the value of the executives, they're going to continue to make millions no matter the outcome of this strike. The majority of actors and writers are wondering if they're going to have health insurance or have to work for Lyft to make ends meet, while the execs are wondering if they'll have to settle for a smaller boat.

 

[YCoCg]

Things have officially gone too far

 

[Clear]

This is a pretty good piece if you want a clear and precise explanation of why the writers are striking from their perspective.



Its pretty alarming stuff as the stated root cause is very applicable to how the games industry is changing; not because it'll necessarily result in the same sort of industrial face-off but because the idea of "engagement" as the KPI of these subscription services changes what's desirable to the money men,

 

[funkygunther]

SAG-AFTRA Approves 39 Indie Projects to Shoot During Strike, Including Two A24 Films

The SAG-AFTRA indie waiver list includes A24's "Death of a Unicorn" with Paul Rudd and Jenna Ortega and "Mother Mary," starring Anne Hathaway.

variety.com

The productions agree to abide by the terms of the latest offer submitted by SAG-AFTRA during contract negotiations. Ultimately, the productions will adhere to the final deal negotiated by the AMPTP.

Duncan Crabtree-Ireland, the union’s executive director, said on a conference call Tuesday that actors are actively encouraged to participate in such projects.

dat studio greed

 

[FunkMiller]

SAG-AFTRA Approves 39 Indie Projects to Shoot During Strike, Including Two A24 Films

The SAG-AFTRA indie waiver list includes A24's "Death of a Unicorn" with Paul Rudd and Jenna Ortega and "Mother Mary," starring Anne Hathaway.

variety.com

dat studio greed

It’s a pretty genius move to show that indies like A24 can afford SAG’s terms. If they can do it, why can’t the majors?

 

[jason10mm]

AA24 probably isn't paying bloated actor salaries, for starters. HIGHLY LIKELY Matthew Macconaguey is taking home a MUCH smaller paycheck for his AA24 film that he would for something like Interstellar. These are usually prestige projects or favors, not bill payer gigs.

But yes, keeping the budgets low and the scope tight allows them a better chance at making money and fewer "swing for the fences" power plays that might hit big, might lose big.

 

[DKehoe]

AA24 probably isn't paying bloated actor salaries, for starters. HIGHLY LIKELY Matthew Macconaguey is taking home a MUCH smaller paycheck for his AA24 film that he would for something like Interstellar. These are usually prestige projects or favors, not bill payer gigs.

But yes, keeping the budgets low and the scope tight allows them a better chance at making money and fewer "swing for the fences" power plays that might hit big, might lose big.

But most actors aren't getting A-lister salaries. Smaller actors getting regular work that pays decently in line with what the union is looking for is what pays their bills.

 

[funkygunther]

AA24 probably isn't paying bloated actor salaries, for starters. HIGHLY LIKELY Matthew Macconaguey is taking home a MUCH smaller paycheck for his AA24 film that he would for something like Interstellar. These are usually prestige projects or favors, not bill payer gigs.

But yes, keeping the budgets low and the scope tight allows them a better chance at making money and fewer "swing for the fences" power plays that might hit big, might lose big.

Probably

Highly likely

Usually

You are without a clue but still can't help trying to convince yourself

 

[EviLore]

Probably

Highly likely

Usually

You are without a clue but still can't help trying to convince yourself

He's right. It's the norm for a-list actors to set aside their typical rate when doing indie/prestige projects. Different economics in that world.

 

[funkygunther]

He's right. It's the norm for a-list actors to set aside their typical rate when doing indie/prestige projects. Different economics in that world.

Prove that's what Mcconaughy did here.

 

[EviLore]

Prove that's what Mcconaughy did here.

No.

 

[funkygunther]

No.

All right then

 

[jason10mm]

Prove that's what Mcconaughy did here.

Well, I'll play even if you got banned.

From this article, he got "$18 million for his role in "Interstellar" (2014)" (https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/actors/matthew-mcconaughey-net-worth/) which is a somewhat dubious source but unlikely to be orders of magnitude off.

Then you can see at least some of the budgets for other Black Bear films here (https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/production-company/Black-Bear) and only a few have more than 18 mill for the ENTIRE production. So unless Rivals of Amizah King has a MUCH larger budget than anything else they have ever produced, Matthew isn't taking home 18 mill for this film. This isn't strange, unknown, or secret info, actors and crew often take pay cuts for "art" because they are making bank off the big films.

So it is a bit disingenuous to compare these arthouse films with the majors because it isn't an apple/apples comparison.

I want both to exist as they both have a role in serving me entertainment, but let's not try to hold up indie film as a paragon of sustainable, equitable filmmaking because those high level actors, directors, and writers are doing them off the earnings they get from the major studio projects. If it was JUST folks getting paid like indie films you'd see some serious bellyaching.

 

[FunkMiller]

I want both to exist as they both have a role in serving me entertainment, but let's not try to hold up indie film as a paragon of sustainable, equitable filmmaking because those high level actors, directors, and writers are doing them off the earnings they get from the major studio projects. If it was JUST folks getting paid like indie films you'd see some serious bellyaching.

I think the point is that indies like A24 are quite happy to sign up to the contracts the way SAG AFTRA want them, indicating that the major studios reluctance to do the same is not actually down to budgets.

McConaughy is taking a pay cut for sure, but the actors around him? All the low paid jobbing actors that this strike is trying to help? Well, A24 have proved that they can afford to pay them a decent wage and residuals and still be content that their projects will turn them a profit... so why the hell can't the majors?

The answer of course is that the major studios are full of greedy cunts who don't actually give a shit about creating movies and TV. Hence the strike.

 

[jason10mm]

I think the point is that indies like A24 are quite happy to sign up to the contracts the way SAG AFTRA want them, indicating that the major studios reluctance to do the same is not actually down to budgets.

McConaughy is taking a pay cut for sure, but the actors around him? All the low paid jobbing actors that this strike is trying to help? Well, A24 have proved that they can afford to pay them a decent wage and residuals and still be content that their projects will turn them a profit... so why the hell can't the majors?

The answer of course is that the major studios are full of greedy cunts who don't actually give a shit about creating movies and TV. Hence the strike.

Well sure, if all the big name draw actors agree to take MILLIONS less, then naturally there is more to give to the other actors that make 0.1-1% of the leads. But the only reason why these wealthy actors agree to work for so little is that they know these films boost their prestige and let them get MILLIONS for the mainstream films. Same with the writers. There ARE highly paid writers working, usually as showrunners. So if they just agreed to be paid less, the lesser writers could get paid more. The writers and actors unions could solve the pay issue ENTIRELLY internally through more profit sharing (like some NFL prospects are doing, the one star makes a bit less, all the others make quite a lot more), but they won't.

Most of these indie films don't make any money. Or they get sold off to a distributor so the studio washes their hands of it. A bit different than the typical WB or Disney production.

 

[Rentahamster]

Universal Responds To Complaints About Pruned Trees On Barham Boulevard: “Not Our Intent …To Create Unintended Challenges For Demonstrators”

Universal Responds To Complaints About Pruned Trees On Barham Boulevard: "Not Our Intent ...To Create Unintended Challenges For Demonstrators"

deadline.com

Universal Studios denies trimming trees to expose strikers to heatwave

NBC Universal claims it is not trying to make conditions uncomfortable for writers and actors who will be picketing with no shade as temperatures soar

www.theguardian.com

A row of previously bushy Ficus trees on Barham Boulevard that were inexplicably pruned over the hot weekend has only heightened the frustration of WGA strikers at Universal — especially since construction on the Lankershim Boulevard side has made it challenging to walk the picket line.

On Monday, strikers who chose to walk the line outside of Gate 8 were surprised to see how the parkland trees next to the gate, which previously offered a shady respite to protesters, were completely cut back. Pine trees on the opposite side of Barham weren’t touched, as were a row of pepper trees behind the fence near the production gate.

After contacted by Deadline, a Universal spokesperson released this statement: “We understand that the safety tree trimming of the Ficus trees we did on Barham Blvd. has created unintended challenges for demonstrators, that was not our intention. In partnership with licensed arborists, we have pruned these trees annually at this time of year to ensure that the canopies are light ahead of the high wind season. We support the WGA and SAG’s right to demonstrate, and are working to provide some shade coverage. We continue to openly communicate with the labor leaders on-site to work together during this time.”

The spokesperson added that the studio has pruned the trees every summer for the last several years because of safety issues.

In a series of posts on social media, LA city controller Kenneth Mejia said that the trees concerned are “LA City managed”, and that while public works agency StreetsLA are responsible for tree maintenance “a business can also obtain a permit to trim a tree”.

It seems like there was no permit issued. Either NBC is lying, or they did unauthorized pruning. Or the LA city controller is in error.

 

[Clear]

Watch the thing I posted, it explains why the shift to streaming as the primary revenue source has been a game-changer, and deeply incompatible with practices formulated when network TV was the big thing.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Universal Responds To Complaints About Pruned Trees On Barham Boulevard: “Not Our Intent …To Create Unintended Challenges For Demonstrators”

Universal Responds To Complaints About Pruned Trees On Barham Boulevard: "Not Our Intent ...To Create Unintended Challenges For Demonstrators"

deadline.com

Universal Studios denies trimming trees to expose strikers to heatwave

NBC Universal claims it is not trying to make conditions uncomfortable for writers and actors who will be picketing with no shade as temperatures soar

www.theguardian.com

It seems like there was no permit issued. Either NBC is lying, or they did unauthorized pruning. Or the LA city controller is in error.

That is cartoonishly evil of them.

 

[jason10mm]

That is cartoonishly evil of them.

It's LA, like high 80's, right? JFC, if these lilies can't handle moderate california weather, they can come here where it is 104 in the shade. Regardless of the intent behind trimming some little crepe myrtles, complaining about it equally laughable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well sure, if all the big name draw actors agree to take MILLIONS less, then naturally there is more to give to the other actors that make 0.1-1% of the leads. But the only reason why these wealthy actors agree to work for so little is that they know these films boost their prestige and let them get MILLIONS for the mainstream films. Same with the writers. There ARE highly paid writers working, usually as showrunners. So if they just agreed to be paid less, the lesser writers could get paid more. The writers and actors unions could solve the pay issue ENTIRELLY internally through more profit sharing (like some NFL prospects are doing, the one star makes a bit less, all the others make quite a lot more), but they won't.

Most of these indie films don't make any money. Or they get sold off to a distributor so the studio washes their hands of it. A bit different than the typical WB or Disney production.

Glen Garry glen ross had a 12M budget with a hall of fame cast. It even says in the production history the actors took less pay where Pacino got paid $1M instead of his usual $6M.

For indie budget films, highly paid actors do it for cheap for prestige as you say (good chance it will be a critical hit for career boost), or simply they perhaps just want to do a film they like instead of always taking the highest bid film. They are loaded and can afford to do pet project films.

As a married with children fan, David garrison ((Steve rhoades) quit because he wanted to back to doing theatre instead of TV sitcoms. No doubt he’d get paid more doing a fox comedy show, but hey sometimes celebs aren’t always greedy guys asking for the highest offer. Sometimes they just want a job that makes them feel better. I guess his heart is on stage. Not standing in front of a camera doing outtakes. Not everyone always picks a job just because it pays the most.

If anyone out there acts like a pure mercenary doing the job only because it pays the most, and not giving a shit about other people or coworkers as they stampede the pack, they got issues.

 

[Rentahamster]

It's LA, like high 80's, right? JFC, if these lilies can't handle moderate california weather, they can come here where it is 104 in the shade. Regardless of the intent behind trimming some little crepe myrtles, complaining about it equally laughable.

"Fuck you cuz I got it worse" is not a reasonable stance to hold. A lot of that sentiment is how the ultra-wealthy are able to pit the lower and middle class against each other while their misdeeds go unnoticed. Besides, the crux of the complaint is about the pettiness of Universal's actions. They have umbrellas and water. They'll be okay.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

"Fuck you cuz I got it worse" is not a reasonable stance to hold. A lot of that sentiment is how the ultra-wealthy are able to pit the lower and middle class against each other while their misdeeds go unnoticed. Besides, the crux of the complaint is about the pettiness of Universal's actions. They have umbrellas and water. They'll be okay.

IMO, anytime one side acts like jackasses insulting people, insinuating burning people houses down (that Ron Perlman rant) and constantly ragging and insulting management, hey man you deserved it.

Act like a child and management will treat you like one. That’s why when you compare management style of communication to employees it’s ALWAYS the same. Management is chill and issues pretty short calm posts looking for resolution, while the employee side rants and raves like drunks half the time. And you know it. You don’t see all the managers and bosses ever going on social media ranti back. People are chill.

So instead how about talking calmly and not doing attention whoring mudslinging. Act like an adult.

Also IMO, if someone doesn’t want to work and would prefer picketing then working you deserve zero job. There’s other people waiting in line hoping for work, but when you got pure babies saying you can’t work as a scab fill in despite them not wanting to work, it goes to show how entitled they are.

Hey if you don’t want to work, let someone else. Not everyone wants to work at a union job anyway. So if someone wants to do that job as a no -union worker doing their own thing, why should any union member care? Let them work and handle the pay and job themselves.

 

[jason10mm]

"Fuck you cuz I got it worse" is not a reasonable stance to hold. A lot of that sentiment is how the ultra-wealthy are able to pit the lower and middle class against each other while their misdeeds go unnoticed. Besides, the crux of the complaint is about the pettiness of Universal's actions. They have umbrellas and water. They'll be okay.

It's perspective. If all it takes to break this strike is a bit of direct southern california sun then they ain't that serious. Call me when a goon squad shows up and starts busting heads, or some food trucks serve brown avocado toast, or the sparkling water is flat...the HORROR!!!

 

[Rentahamster]

It's perspective. If all it takes to break this strike is a bit of direct southern california sun then they ain't that serious. Call me when a goon squad shows up and starts busting heads, or some food trucks serve brown avocado toast, or the sparkling water is flat...the HORROR!!!

Don't change the subject. My post was about how NBC Universal (probably and unnecessarily) pruned the trees to make it more uncomfortable for the people who are protesting their exploitative employment practices. They then (probably) lied about it. Is that a dick move? Does the fact that it's hotter where you live make it less of a dick move?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Don't change the subject. My post was about how NBC Universal (probably and unnecessarily) pruned the trees to make it more uncomfortable for the people who are protesting their exploitative employment practices. They then (probably) lied about it. Is that a dick move? Does the fact that it's hotter where you live make it less of a dick move?

Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. Wow, for probably the first time ever management may had tried busting the balls of unions members protesting in the summer heat.

All the while, union workers in general not working affects the entire company, non-union workers still trying to do their job, customers, hell even local shops that sell lunch. And also all people and cars who can get hassled by picketers that can pop up at any street corner and bog down streets. So if you want to call management selfish people, just look at what unions who dont get their way do. Act like crybabies.

So let's not pretend union members act maturely either.

At least when non-union members dont get their way, they still go to work like mature adults and try to minimize affecting people not involved with their beef with bosses.

 

[Rentahamster]

IMO, anytime one side acts like jackasses insulting people, insinuating burning people houses down (that Ron Perlman rant) and constantly ragging and insulting management, hey man you deserved it.

Act like a child and management will treat you like one. That’s why when you compare management style of communication to employees it’s ALWAYS the same. Management is chill and issues pretty short calm posts looking for resolution, while the employee side rants and raves like drunks half the time. And you know it. You don’t see all the managers and bosses ever going on social media ranti back. People are chill.

So instead how about talking calmly and not doing attention whoring mudslinging. Act like an adult.

Also IMO, if someone doesn’t want to work and would prefer picketing then working you deserve zero job. There’s other people waiting in line hoping for work, but when you got pure babies saying you can’t work as a scab fill in despite them not wanting to work, it goes to show how entitled they are.

Hey if you don’t want to work, let someone else. Not everyone wants to work at a union job anyway. So if someone wants to do that job as a no -union worker doing their own thing, why should any union member care? Let them work and handle the pay and job themselves.

Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. Wow, for probably the first time ever management may had tried busting the balls of unions members protesting in the summer heat.

All the while, union workers in general not working affects the entire company, non-union workers still trying to do their job, customers, hell even local shops that sell lunch. And also all people and cars who can get hassled by picketers that can pop up at any street corner and bog down streets. So if you want to call management selfish people, just look at what unions who dont get their way do. Act like crybabies.

So let's not pretend union members act maturely either.

At least when non-union members dont get their way, they still go to work like mature adults and try to minimize affecting people not involved with their beef with bosses.

That's a lot of words and a lot of assumptions and a lot of straw man arguments to avoid the subject still.

Do you acknowledge that NBC Universal pruned the trees so that they barely have any shade left?

Do you acknowledge that there is evidence to suggest that NBC Universal's statement that this is a normal preplanned procedure is false?

Do you acknowledge that it's probably the case that NBC Universal went out of their way to spend money and resources and possibly violated city ordinances in order to make it actively more uncomfortable for the protestors who are lawfully protesting and expressing their freedom of speech?

Do you acknowledge that it's really hot in LA?

Do you acknowledge that this was a shitty thing to do?

Do you think the protesters deserved this action?

 

[DeafTourette]

Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. Wow, for probably the first time ever management may had tried busting the balls of unions members protesting in the summer heat.

All the while, union workers in general not working affects the entire company, non-union workers still trying to do their job, customers, hell even local shops that sell lunch. And also all people and cars who can get hassled by picketers that can pop up at any street corner and bog down streets. So if you want to call management selfish people, just look at what unions who dont get their way do. Act like crybabies.

So let's not pretend union members act maturely either.

At least when non-union members dont get their way, they still go to work like mature adults and try to minimize affecting people not involved with their beef with bosses.

Ok, lemme ask ... Why do you think the UPS union workers are planning to strike? Why do you think the railroad workers were about to strike before Biden forced them back to work? Why do you think the coal miners were striking in Alabama?

You keep calling union workers lazy and entitled and crybabies... Maybe look beyond your bubble and actually READ why people strike? It's not all about "more pay" ...

And non-union people going to work and not bitching? Do you even read what you're saying?

"The non union workers are fine with having less pay, no insurance, being overworked and no sick days... They're the real heroes!"

 

[Rentahamster]

This is a pretty good piece if you want a clear and precise explanation of why the writers are striking from their perspective.



Its pretty alarming stuff as the stated root cause is very applicable to how the games industry is changing; not because it'll necessarily result in the same sort of industrial face-off but because the idea of "engagement" as the KPI of these subscription services changes what's desirable to the money men,

Good video that lays out some of the key issues. The changing nature of how we consume media is a real thing. How shows make money now is different than it was before. It is fair that the studios are exploiting that changing nature in order to pay their workers less money for more labor? Probably not.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Ok, lemme ask ... Why do you think the UPS union workers are planning to strike? Why do you think the railroad workers were about to strike before Biden forced them back to work? Why do you think the coal miners were striking in Alabama?

You keep calling union workers lazy and entitled and crybabies... Maybe look beyond your bubble and actually READ why people strike? It's not all about "more pay" ...

And non-union people going to work and not bitching? Do you even read what you're saying?

"The non union workers are fine with having less pay, no insurance, being overworked and no sick days... They're the real heroes!"

What are you talking about? The main beef of SAG is wages, residuals, job security and AI. In those tweets above, there's even something about SAG wanting compensation if an actor puts on his own make up and does their own hair.

There's no way you can deny unions are the ones who picket like babies on street corners, or those god awful stories and videos youd see of auto workers on strike in the 80s or 90s hitting cars who are trying to get into the parking lot. Hey, whomever it is trying to get in just wants to work. Dont bring your union picketing troubles to that guy. He's not even involved. It could be a guy delivering a pizza. Why hassle the guy and bang his car.

Who says non-union get worse pay? We get paid fine. And non-union workers (which include managers and bosses) are the ones who call the shots. Hey, nobody in my finance department is unionized. And they probably never are in any company. We tracks costs, P/L and approve stuff. And we are the ones who bring up inefficiencies (which includes recommending getting SG&A in line, which means firing people). Too bad. That's life and the way jobs work.

All the workers at my office get paid fine. We pay no insurance either (Canada), nobody is overworked, and we dont need sick days because in these kinds of jobs nobody cares or tracks whether someone is getting close to going over the 5 or 10 day sick day policy. We get paid regardless if we go to the dentist or go on vacation or are sick all week with a fever. That's the perks of non-union salaried people. Management will always let things slide as long as you do good work and dont act like a jackass.

As I've stressed, non-union jobs are flexible. Aside from that skimpy job description outlining a few paragraphs and 10 bullet points what you do, everything else is fluid.

If union wants big guaranteed multi year contracts with 86 bullet points, then you got to live and die by the contract. And nobody says management ha to give in to every bullet point either. If youre worth it, they'll say yes. If not, they'll say Reject. Cant expect to win everything in life.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That's a lot of words and a lot of assumptions and a lot of straw man arguments to avoid the subject still.

Do you acknowledge that NBC Universal pruned the trees so that they barely have any shade left?

Do you acknowledge that there is evidence to suggest that NBC Universal's statement that this is a normal preplanned procedure is false?

Do you acknowledge that it's probably the case that NBC Universal went out of their way to spend money and resources and possibly violated city ordinances in order to make it actively more uncomfortable for the protestors who are lawfully protesting and expressing their freedom of speech?

Do you acknowledge that it's really hot in LA?

Do you acknowledge that this was a shitty thing to do?

Do you think the protesters deserved this action?

Think of it like as part of the negoitation.

Union pickets, guys like Ron Perlman go on social media threatening Iger's house getting burned down, and the union shuts down work which also affects everyone else from non-union workers to customers who arent even part of the debate.

So hey, if pruning some trees is that extreme, maybe you should read at what I wrote above.

I get it. Unions should have free reign to do dumb stuff and management should be held to a higher standard. I see it as a two way street. Act like an ass, get treated like as ass.

 

[Rentahamster]

Think of it like as part of the negoitation.

Is acting like a dick and then lying about it a reasonable means of negotiation?

Union pickets, guys like Ron Perlman go on social media threatening Iger's house getting burned down,

Is Ron Perlman part of the group picketing in front of NBC Universal?

and the union shuts down work which also affects everyone else from non-union workers to customers who arent even part of the debate.

What does that have to do with unlawfully making public property more uncomfortable for free speech enthusiasts?

So hey, if pruning some trees is that extreme, maybe you should read at what I wrote above.

So hey, you should answer my questions directly instead of avoiding them and keep the topic focused on the stuff I actually brought up instead of changing the subject. They're still there

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Is acting like a dick and then lying about it a reasonable means of negotiation?


Is Ron Perlman part of the group picketing in front of NBC Universal?


What does that have to do with unlawfully making public property more uncomfortable for free speech enthusiasts?


So hey, you should answer my questions directly instead of avoiding them and keep the topic focused on the stuff I actually brought up instead of changing the subject. They're still there

LOL. You know what my answer is, since you couldnt figure it out? I'll repeat.

It's all part of the negotiation.

As I've said on GAF many times in different threads regarding crybabies at work --> act like a baby, get treated like a baby.

The union would get a lot more respect from people (now you know why non-union people and any suppliers affected by strikes or parents caught in the crossfire of a teacher strike dont like it) if they just kept doing their job, prove to bosses they are worth it and why they should get a pay bump. Its not hard. Leave everyone else alone. It's your squabble. Dont take the rest of the people down with you.

Think of it like teacher and student or parent and child. If everything goes smooth getting good grades or doing chores, things go well. You get rewarded with better grades and more allowance or staying up late. And if the kid wants even better grades and more cash, prove to them you're awesome and you'll get more.

Act like an idiot, insult or not show up for anything and the authority figure will then give you an F and you get grounded. Pretty simple.

Boss/worker, teacher/student, parent/child are all very similar situations. The difference is you cant expect kids to know much. They are still growing and immature. But adults should know the concept of work/reward and conducting themselves maturely in a boss/worker environment.

 

[Rentahamster]

LOL. You know what my answer is, since you couldnt figure it out? I'll repeat.

You didn't answer my questions. I'll repeat.

Do you acknowledge that NBC Universal pruned the trees so that they barely have any shade left?

Do you acknowledge that there is evidence to suggest that NBC Universal's statement that this is a normal preplanned procedure is false?

Do you acknowledge that it's probably the case that NBC Universal went out of their way to spend money and resources and possibly violated city ordinances in order to make it actively more uncomfortable for the protestors who are lawfully protesting and expressing their freedom of speech?

Do you acknowledge that it's really hot in LA?

Do you acknowledge that this was a shitty thing to do?

Do you think the protesters deserved this action?