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"I need a New PC!" 2012 Thread. 22nm+28nm, Tri-Gate, and reading the OP. [Part 1]

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M

mkenyon

Banned
160mm PSUs fit just fine. I have an AX650 in there, and though it was extremely tight, that was due to the uni-sleeved cables more than being a 160mm PSU.

If you want a bit more space, you can go with one of the Seasonic M12II PSU's.

Mrbob said:
What are the thoughts on a hybrid hdd?

I want SSD, but pricing is still too high for what I really want to pay per gb. I'm looking into buying a pair of Seagate Momentum 750GB drives:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-148-837
Click to expand...
Not worth it.

If you want storage, get good storage drives. If you want applications and games, get an SSD. $80-90 for a 120GB SSD doesn't really seem all that expensive.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
I'm lazy though and don't want to spend time moving programs from different hdds. 120 is way too small in a single drive for me. I've been looking at the 512gb drives but those are still a little too expensive.

Maybe I'll just hold out longer. SSD prices seem to keep on dropping every week.
 
K

kennah

Member
Mrbob said:
I'm lazy though and don't want to spend time moving programs from different hdds. 120 is way too small in a single drive for me. I've been looking at the 512gb drives but those are still a little too expensive.

Maybe I'll just hold out longer. SSD prices seem to keep on dropping every week.
Click to expand...

? You wouldn't be moving programs from different hard drives. Generally program installs are quite small, it's media that take up room. Install games to the HDD, keep all your video and music on the HDD, and just install Windows and other program files on the SSD.

Also, Steam has an update coming soon that will let you specify what hard drive you install individual games to. No hassle whatsoever.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Yeah, I'm not really sure why anyone would be using more than 120GB between programs and games. On all my gaming rigs, I have GW2, Firefall, Dota 2, T:A, Smite, Warsow, Skyrim, Diablo 3, Q3 Live and a host of ancillary programs installed. Still many GBs left.

SSD for programs, mechanical for data.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Hmm, that's good to know, My Steam directory is big. I think it's close to 800GB now. Of course there is stuff I've finished and not uninstalled. I'll have to clean out the kitchen. Shame I missed out on that 256GB Crucial deal.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
mkenyon said:
BKkoyh.jpg


The latter of the two essentially forces you into buying a louder GPU.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It is designed to work well with reference blowers, but the majority of non reference coolers will work just fine.

There was a test with a bunch of 3. party GPU coolers, and all of them did much better in an FT02 (where the motherboard is rotated 90 degrees like in the FT03 Mini) standing vertical than standing like it was supposed to stand. That was because the side of the heatpipes making contact with the core was higher than the side being cooled when the case was in the normal orientation. Silverstone has this graphic on the FT02 page:
good_ba.jpg

FT02 motherboard orientation in case you didn't know:
5970_in_FT02.jpg


The MSI 460 Hawk however did just fine in the FT02 no matter the motherboard orientation. I haven't found a lot of temps, but I found two reviews the FT03 Mini was tested with a non reference cooler (review 1 and 2) and there are many running FT03 (mATX) with non reference coolers (1, 2, 3 and 4). I doubt it's much worse than in other ITX cases, especially when the FT03 Mini is cooled really well.

Also, one more thing. The FT03 Mini can only fit a small CPU cooler, but it does have mounts for a 120mm rad in the bottom for liquid cooling. You can read about other people building FT03 Minis here to see how they did it and possibly problems the stumbled across.
 
K

kennah

Member
If you already have a 1TB or more drive for your games, you'd just need to add an SSD and install windows on it. Heck, done properly you wouldn't even need to redownload your games.
 
Solo Act

Solo Act

Member
I have a question. I'm looking to buy my first gaming PC, a Maingear Shift. I've got everything configured in a way that I like it, the only question left is the GPU. I would really like to get the EVGA GTX 680, but to save money and kind of split the cost, I would really like to just buy the system with the Nvidia 640 preinstalled, and buy a 680 online and replace it myself in a month or two.

My question is, how difficult is that? I know to the people who build these rigs often it's probably nothing, but what about for someone like me who has never had his hand inside of a computer? Is it as simple as swapping out the one GPU for the other since they'll both be Nvidia 6 series cards, or do I also have to swap power cords and the like? Any other difficulties to consider or plan around?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
kennah said:
If you already have a 1TB or more drive for your games, you'd just need to add an SSD and install windows on it. Heck, done properly you wouldn't even need to redownload your games.
Click to expand...

Can you explain this better? Are you talking about using Steam Mover? I think I've been talked back into getting a small-ish SSD, but I'll wait for a 256 to get cheaper.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Ty4on said:
The MSI 460 Hawk however did just fine in the FT02 no matter the motherboard orientation. I haven't found a lot of temps, but I found two reviews the FT03 Mini was tested with a non reference cooler (review 1 and 2) and there are many running FT03 (mATX) with non reference coolers (1, 2, 3 and 4). I doubt it's much worse than in other ITX cases, especially when the FT03 Mini is cooled really well.

Also, one more thing. The FT03 Mini can only fit a small CPU cooler, but it does have mounts for a 120mm rad in the bottom for liquid cooling. You can read about other people building FT03 Minis here to see how they did it and possibly problems the stumbled across.
Click to expand...
Neither of those FT03 mini reviews list GPU temperatures. I can tell you from my own testing when I was confronted with this, the MSI 560Ti TFII had around 10-15C higher temps in the FT03 than the Arc Mini with almost identical CFM in:eek:ut.

The other links you posted didn't give GPU temps either. They were just pictures of non-reference cards in FT03s. It's not as though they are incompatible, it's just that they run hotter and louder. The DCII and TFII are both culprits, as the heatpipes are much longer below the GPU.

I'm curious if you have a link to the test where it showed some non-reference as lower.

*edit*
Looking at pictures of various reference coolers, it's just one of those situations where you have to research each one on each specific card to make sure it works. The Gigabyte Winforce cooler, for example, would work if it's the 660Ti or670 2X card, but not if it is the standard 670 or 680. That's confusing as hell to non-enthusiasts, and why I stick to the 'buy reference only', as you know that those work without a doubt.
 
P

paskowitz

Member
If you have the time to look this over I would greatly appreciate it. If I have selected a specific part that is bad or not recommended please let me know. Thank you.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($215.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS9500 AT Ball Bearing CPU Cooler ($33.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($134.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston Blu 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($35.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Amazon)
Sound Card: Asus Xonar DG 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($18.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: ABS 1100W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $946.90
(Prices include shipping and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-09-11 10:24 EDT-0400)

I have all the software I need and a monitor. I am a big newb at this kind of stuff but luckily some friends of mine have offered to help me build it so at least I do not have to worry about that.

If I want to go triple 720p (2160) in the future, what will I need in terms of hardware?

Again, thank you for your help.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Loving this new SSD, Maya and Photoshop now start up in under 10 seconds each, where before there was a solid minute of waiting for them to start up.
 
T

t-ramp

Member
JG07 said:
I have a question. I'm looking to buy my first gaming PC, a Maingear Shift. I've got everything configured in a way that I like it, the only question left is the GPU. I would really like to get the EVGA GTX 680, but to save money and kind of split the cost, I would really like to just buy the system with the Nvidia 640 preinstalled, and buy a 680 online and replace it myself in a month or two.

My question is, how difficult is that? I know to the people who build these rigs often it's probably nothing, but what about for someone like me who has never had his hand inside of a computer? Is it as simple as swapping out the one GPU for the other since they'll both be Nvidia 6 series cards, or do I also have to swap power cords and the like? Any other difficulties to consider or plan around?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
As long as the PSU has the proper connectors and sufficient wattage, there should be no issues with just swapping the cards. What is the PSU in the build?

Also, just got my 2500K yesterday... still waiting on the motherboard.
 
Solo Act

Solo Act

Member
t-ramp said:
As long as the PSU has the proper connectors and sufficient wattage, there should be no issues with just swapping the cards. What is the PSU in the build?

Also, just got my 2500K yesterday... still waiting on the motherboard.
Click to expand...

The PSU is a "600W Corsair Gamer Series 80+ Certified PSU"
 
P

Pratfall

Member
mkenyon said:
160mm PSUs fit just fine. I have an AX650 in there, and though it was extremely tight, that was due to the uni-sleeved cables more than being a 160mm PSU.

If you want a bit more space, you can go with one of the Seasonic M12II PSU's.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have a Corsair AX850 in my current build so I will just switch that over and save some cash.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
@paskowitz

Swap the Zalman for the Coolermaster Hyper 212, the case for a Coolermaster 690II Advanced (unless you really like the HAF aesthetic), and the Antec BP550 or some Seasonic 400-600W PSU.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
mkenyon said:
*edit*
Looking at pictures of various reference coolers, it's just one of those situations where you have to research each one on each specific card to make sure it works. The Gigabyte Winforce cooler, for example, would work if it's the 660Ti or670 2X card, but not if it is the standard 670 or 680. That's confusing as hell to non-enthusiasts, and why I stick to the 'buy reference only', as you know that those work without a doubt.
Click to expand...

Sorry that I didn't have a lot of hard evidence, the number of case reviews not checking the temps is kind of disgusting.

I do have a question though. Given that you have tested cars in an FT03, how do you think the HIS IceQ 7850 would do in a mATX FT03?
Edit: The IceQ 7850 looks like it should send 50% out the rear and 50% behind the PCB preventing it from inhaling its exaust in an FT03.
 
M

MrBig

Member
Smokey said:
Is this legit? I was just playing last night on the U3011 and i said this looks amazing and explained to the gf that when 120hz 1600p/1440p panels hit ill probably move to one of those. I then got lectured on how much the u3011 cost but all I heard was blah blah

If these are legit this could be a sign!
Click to expand...

These monitors are being sold on the promise of them being able to be overclock above 60hz. The panel in these things are 60hz and when you mess with the timings you'll be killing the monitor a whole lot faster than running it at what it was designed for.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Smokey said:
Is this legit? I was just playing last night on the U3011 and i said this looks amazing and explained to the gf that when 120hz 1600p/1440p panels hit ill probably move to one of those. I then got lectured on how much the u3011 cost but all I heard was blah blah

If these are legit this could be a sign!
Click to expand...
Like Big said it's a B part that can be overclocked to 120Hz. IIRC it's some attachment/controller board and I don't know the impacts of running it or the monitor at 120Hz in the long term.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Smokey said:
Is this legit? I was just playing last night on the U3011 and i said this looks amazing and explained to the gf that when 120hz 1600p/1440p panels hit ill probably move to one of those. I then got lectured on how much the u3011 cost but all I heard was blah blah

If these are legit this could be a sign!
Click to expand...
They're legit.
Hazaro said:
Like Big said it's a B part that can be overclocked to 120Hz. IIRC it's some attachment/controller board and I don't know the impacts of running it or the monitor at 120Hz in the long term.
Click to expand...
Remember Smokey, this is advice from the same guy who won't go above something like 4.3GHz. Total wuss.
Ty4on said:
Sorry that I didn't have a lot of hard evidence, the number of case reviews not checking the temps is kind of disgusting.

I do have a question though. Given that you have tested cars in an FT03, how do you think the HIS IceQ 7850 would do in a mATX FT03?
Edit: The IceQ 7850 looks like it should send 50% out the rear and 50% behind the PCB preventing it from inhaling its exaust in an FT03.
Click to expand...
Easy way to tell.

This will not work due to the heatpipes being below the GPU (when mounted in the case)

wrwh3.jpg


This will work due to having equal heatpipe distribution

ZHQC6.jpg
 
I

Izick

Member
So, PC-Gaf, I am looking to build a PC, my first in fact. I'll give you a bit of backstory first; so I started saving up money for a Macbook Air these past few months, and got it about two weeks ago. Unfortunately, it was defective, and I had to return it to Best Buy (45 minutes out from where I live) and get another one. Unfortunately, luck hates me, and I got another defective unit (the one I am unfortunately typing on right now), this one with even more problems (fucked up left speaker and trackpad).

Anyway, I'm fed up with it basically. This is Apple's fault along with BB's, for shipping out two defective units, the latter just blatantly fucked up so easily; not to mention the Air wasn't a slam dunk in all ways. Sure it was thin, but the tapered design was made in a way that it would cut your wrists and abs (I use my computer in bed) up because of how sharp the end is. Not to mention while multi-touch gestures are amazing, the whole rest of the interface and design leaves a lot to be desired compared to Windows 7. So then I started looking into some good PC laptops. I made a thread about good 1000$ laptops, and I received a suggestion about making a desktop PC. I was told I could make something pretty damn awesome with that kind of money. Well, I was kind of dumbfounded to say the least. I had always thought about creating a desktop PC, for general usage, and gaming, but I had always thought that it would cost much more than that. Price aside, I also realized that I use my laptop completely within my house, and 9/10 times it's in my room. So why not have a desktop?

So now, I ask PC-Gaf, how exactly does one even begin to get started? Like I said earlier, my budget is around a grand, so that's what I'm looking at. I want to make something that is good for gaming, and in turn good for general day to day use. (currently in college) I am all ears!
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
OP pretty much has you covered. There's a little Q&A in there that helps us steer you towards a specific build. The 'Excellent' is what I would recommend generally, if you have the money for it. It's crazy powerful.

If you have other wants, like small form factor or a desire for super quiet operation, then we can further refine specifics.
 
I

Izick

Member
Alright, thanks!

I'm really excited to finally doing this. I've kind of been disappointed with how console gaming is going, and everyone just says "buy a PC!" you know, so it's crazy to think I can finally do so, and a good one to boot.

If I do buy the necessary parts for the suggested one, how well should I be able to run the newest games? Will the look noticeably better than the PS360 editions?
 
B

Baller. PhD

Banned
mkenyon said:
Getting a PC to run quiet is more about component and fan choices than anything else. You just need to get the right GPU with the right case fan replacements. How do you feel about the Prodigy?

IaKJEh.jpg


It's basically a 12"x12" cube.
Click to expand...

Still looks too big, and a bit too "gamery" to boot. ;)

mkenyon said:
Otherwise I'd suggest going with one of these:

6mdR8.jpg


BKkoyh.jpg


The latter of the two essentially forces you into buying a louder GPU.
Click to expand...

Those look better. Why do you say the FT03 Mini forces a louder GPU? That case is appealing to me for it's small horizontal footprint. The other one is nice as well, probably my top pick at this point.

I just wish there were cases that were slimmer at the expense of hard drive bays. I only need ONE drive, and it's a 2.5" SSD. I don't want to have a slightly bulkier case with wasted space inside. :(

mkenyon said:
There's also the Coolermaster Elite 120

Small%20(1%20of%2010).jpg
Click to expand...

Holy shit, it's Megatron!
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
These aren't slimmer due to needing to have space for videocards. That Coolermaster is as slim as you can get before you need half-height videocards. The bottom case is the FT03 Mini, and the discussion about it is a few posts up.
 
C

cametall

Member
I highly recommend people avoid the Sapphire Vapor-X cards (except the 6 GB version). Sapphire has placed a voltage lock on them for "GPU safety."

In an interesting development, after 3 weeks of being released, Newegg has discontinued carrying the Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor X...
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
ASUS DCII 7970s are voltage locked as well.

*edit*

I wonder if its a case of the cards running so cool that people were dumping stupid volts into them without touching 85. Even with the sliders to the right on my 7970, it still stays at 55ish under load. Pretty ridiculous.
 
C

cametall

Member
Why include and advertise Trixx if Sapphire won't let me push past the CCC limitations. I thought the whole point of Vapor X was for better cooling, thus better possible overclocks.

Ugh.

EDIT: Even at 0.975v and an OC of 1025/1575 my GPU can hit 70+c. Maybe Vapor X isn't all it's advertised to be.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
So the Sandisk 120GB SSD is $80 at Amazon and Newegg. Yay or nay GAF?

This would be for OS and other stuff on a regular disc. I dont see it in Hazaro's OP listings.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006EKJCWM/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.tkqlhce.com/click-389113...com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820171567

Also, what about this RAM?
Kingston Technology HyperX 8 GB (2x4 GB Modules) 1600 MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Kit (PC3 12800) 240-Pin SDRAM KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX
8GB for $40 seems like a good deal on Amazon.
 
R

RoaringHawk

Member
Yay finally bought my first SSD. Couldn't pass on that Crucial 256GB the other day!

So TRIM should be auto configured with Win 7 and a P67 MB right?
 
C

cametall

Member
I got a response from Sapphire. The Vapor X does in fact allow you to adjust its voltage.

The issue must be the new boost stuff AMD came out with because no one on Overclock.net can get the card stable when changing voltage unless forcing Afterburner to maintain constant voltage.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
That is really strange.

If the latest drivers aren't offering improvements in games that matter to you, you could always roll back.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Izick said:
Alright, thanks!

I'm really excited to finally doing this. I've kind of been disappointed with how console gaming is going, and everyone just says "buy a PC!" you know, so it's crazy to think I can finally do so, and a good one to boot.

If I do buy the necessary parts for the suggested one, how well should I be able to run the newest games? Will the look noticeably better than the PS360 editions?
Click to expand...
1080p+, 60fps, Better textures, larger FOV, larger view distance, dramatically reduced load times, mods, Steam, /PCGAMING
legacyzero said:
And it's GLORIOUS
Click to expand...
Aww you even put the stickers on.
 
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