The Mana Legend
Banned
Why does every Star Trek series need a Spock ripoff?
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Lets talk about Star Trek Voyager
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Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Jerry Ryan was the only reason I watched any of the Star Treks. None of the other could stand up to the original.
The better question would be why every series needs a Vulcan / Human hybrid when anyone of that species is destined to become a Spock ripoff as Spock is the character they all have to look to for how to be a half Vulcan half Human character.
Wait, who was Spock in DS9?
Voyager was ok, it had some episodes that I would hold up as some of the greatest in Star Trek history (that two parter, "Year of Hell" I think it was called?).
That being said, I fucking HATED Seven of Nine. She was ok at first, but after a while EVERY FRIGGIN' EPISODE she's the hero in the end that saves the ship. So annoying.
Odo. Not as "Spockish" as Data or the Doctor, but he was definitely the "Spock character."
That being said, I fucking HATED Seven of Nine. She was ok at first, but after a while EVERY FRIGGIN' EPISODE she's the hero in the end that saves the ship. So annoying.
Odo. Not as "Spockish" as Data or the Doctor, but he was definitely the "Spock character."
There is always an exception....but when it comes to Star Trek, DS9 breaks every rule and is the exception across the board.
If anybody says Odo they get a tentacle in the face
The problem with Voyager is that it was a slave to the ratings. Stunt casting, too much focus on 'popular' characters and dumbed-down storylines meant to appeal to the (dumb) masses.
By the time the main actors grew into their roles, it was weighed down by all that shit. There were high points, but you could watch them all in one afternoon.
By the time the main actors grew into their roles, it was weighed down by all that shit. There were high points, but you could watch them all in one afternoon.
The Mana Legend
Banned
I never watched DS9 enough to find out. But that shapeshifting dude was pretty emotionless.
But you've got Spock, Data, Seven of Nine, and for Enterprise you have the entire cast.
There was another Vulcan / Human hybrid?
The Vulcan/Data/Odo roles are pretty obviously there to provide an outsider's dispassionate commentary on humanity.
I never bothered watching the animated series, so fair enough.
Really?
I'd take Enterprise over Voyager any day of the week.
Season 3 was a better take on the "lone ship far from home" premise than the entirety of Voyager.
I suppose in that he's meant to represent a perfect form of some virtue... but I never saw him as a Spock stand-in.
Odo had lots of emotions.
Most of them involved JUSTICE.
SteveWinwood
Member
I like how people have listed three different characters as the "Spock" in Voyager.
Fox Mulder
Member
i dont know.
my dad grew up when TOS was on TV and got me into the franchise, but he loves voyager. It had potential and does have some good episodes, so I can see how people like it more than they should.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Gets a better rep than it deserves, really. Kind of like BSG.
Kind of stumbled at the end there, for all the credit it gets for a cohesive running storyline.
Kind of like BSG.
I'm gonna say Odo.
I thought there were others but I guess I was mistaken. It's been a while since I watched Star Trek. I especially thought Tuvok was part human for some reason.
Gets a better rep than it deserves, really. Kind of like BSG.
Kind of stumbled at the end there, for all the credit it gets for a cohesive running storyline.
Kind of like BSG.
It has way more consistency than BSG though.
Damnit. -.-
I wouldn't call it cringe worthy, but Ezri was an improvement.
I feel similar to how Morts feels about it, in that that character is the outsider that's either trying to find acceptance by humanity or is there to give stark contrast.
Like I said, he's not obvious like Data, but I always felt like he was close enough.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Voyager was a brilliant concept with poor casting (of the initial cast only Mulgrew & Picardo were any good) and terrible execution(TNG & DS9 spent all that time setting up the marquis for VOY, and for what? DS9 used them better with eddington then VOY ever did). And Tuvix ruined Janeway as a character.
Garak already did
and it was glorious
Garak already did
and it was glorious
I hated Tom Paris throughout the series; most hated character. I just didn't connect with his character at all. Fuck him and hot rodding about space with the delta flyer. The worst episodes always centered around Tom Paris. The biggest evidence I can present to this is the episode Threshold. Enough said.
King Mystery
Member
My favorite characters were: Doctor, Tuvok, Janeway. Didn't like the rest.
Things become boring after Seven of Nine joins the crew. Waaay too many episodes were focused on her.
EDIT: I probably would of liked B'Elanna if she was full Klingon though.
Things become boring after Seven of Nine joins the crew. Waaay too many episodes were focused on her.
EDIT: I probably would of liked B'Elanna if she was full Klingon though.
I don't remember much about the Tuvix episode, but I remember hating it. How did it ruin Janeway's character?
I'm not a trek aficionado by any means but I'm nearing the end of Enterprise now and I haven't had much of an issue with at all.
Is it common consensus that Enterprise was bad? If so, why?
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Poor Dumb Harry.
Never seen an actual episode but have watched 90% of its SFdebris reviews.
The one where Janeway and Paris go into warp 10 and turn into salamanders or whatever completely fucks with my head. Craziest part is they're back to normal a minute after the rest of the crew pick them up.
EDIT: Oh right it was Threshold.
Never seen an actual episode but have watched 90% of its SFdebris reviews.
The one where Janeway and Paris go into warp 10 and turn into salamanders or whatever completely fucks with my head. Craziest part is they're back to normal a minute after the rest of the crew pick them up.
EDIT: Oh right it was Threshold.
She never had a character in the first place beyond "sits in the captains chair and has a smokers voice", she always did whatever the writer of the current episode thought would be appropriate to the plot
pants
Member
Well it makes her a murderer for starters.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Tuvok & Neelix were melded into one by a transporter accident, creating a new being with the memory of both. Initally he wanted to be changed back so the doc worked on that. By the time the doc worked out a way, tuvix was his own person, and did not want to be, as it would have been then, killed, to bring back tuvok & neelix. Janeway (with the silent assent of the entire bridge crew & kes), FORCED him to be seperated. The only person who refused to be involved was the doctor, who was disgusted by janeway's actions and would not perform the procedure, so janeway had to murder him herself.
Can't imagine kirk, picard or sisko doing that.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Well, he was part Neelix for one episode...
I love Nicolle. But Ezri as a character should never have happened. It broke internal logic, as a Trill coming back to their old life and relationships was strictly forbidden according to their own oft-lauded same-sex relationship controversy episode. It created all this weird romantic pathos between Worf and Julian that ate up SOOO much screen time in the final season. It lessened the impact of the first serious Trek regular-character death since Tasha Yar. A death that happened right in the middle of a big war arc, that was full of casualties that not once included a main character.
Imagine the final season we could have had if Jadzia had been killed along with the symbiont? Imagine how that could have affected Worf, and Sisko.
They just pussed out, pure and simple. That final season was a mess.
And I got one other thing to say about DS9's ending:
After literally crying like a baby watching this happen...
...because this happened,
it was a sloppy, bullshit, insulting ending to the character to have this happen:
Sir_Crocodile
Member
We did at least get "Tacking into the Wind" out of it, which is one of the finest episodes in trek history.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Kirk would murder Spock combined with anybody to get Spock back. Spulu. Spuhura. Spotty. Spechov. Nurse Spapel. All dead.
Agreed. And I also love the series. Like BSG, it is the bitter hurt of a disappointed love that is speaking now.
Thanks, now I remember.
Seems similar to the issue some people had with how Sisko got the Romulans to enter the war.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its...not a bad show. But it feels like a retread of Next Generation in a lot of ways without the spark that kept me interested in NG. I could barely keep watching through season 3 of Voyager, past that point I've just caught scattershot episodes
They just never sold the whole "lost in space" angle hard enough for me.
They just never sold the whole "lost in space" angle hard enough for me.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
And spockxspores
Sisko did that for the greater good, and he genuinely believed the dominion would turn on romulus once they'd finished off the khitomer alliance, and that he was doing the right thing not only for the federation but for the entire alpha quadrant.
Janeway comes across as having done it because she wanted her tuvok back(also see - Endgame, in which she destroys an entire timeline for the same reason)
selflessness vs selfishness really
Megadragon15
Member
I still can't believe that they made Mrs. Columbo captain. She was better in Remo Williams and that is not saying much.
Nope.
Um... no? Jadzia had been a Star Fleet officer and had a previous relationship with Sisko. Ezri wasn't even
supposed to have the symbiont and she initially returned to DS9 because she thought Sisko, someone who knew two of the symbionts previous hosts, could help her deal with living with the memories of these other individuals when she hadn't been properly trained to do so.
Also, this thread is now a DS9 thread.
It was destined to become a DS9 thread as Voyager only has about 30 minutes of content worth discussing.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I will say it was enjoyable when Seven showed up at first, because finally there was somebody willing to call Janeway on her ridiculous bullshit at least once.
Chakotay calmly telilng Janeway about his spirit animal of the week doesn't count.
Technosteve
Banned
Hi my name is steve and as a youngster i watched every episode of voyager on UPN. My family was poor and DS9 was only shown of weekends. I thought the show was good and i really liked the Doctor and Neelix's girlfriend.
But even then i thought DS9 shit all over voyager from a great distance. How do you not like Garak and the grubby scheming Quark
But even then i thought DS9 shit all over voyager from a great distance. How do you not like Garak and the grubby scheming Quark
Sir_Crocodile
Member
can you imagine riker's reaction to janeway's alliance with the borg in scorpion
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