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[Big Icarus]

SaffronOlive takes on the broken planeswalker problem directly.

It might be a good idea to cut the number of PWs anyway, but he's not really right about the number going up -- they were still doing new cards in the core sets and printing 10-11 per year.



This is pretty aesthetically pleasing but you can't actually explain how the mechanic works on here.

Bleh. Some Magic mechanics are too complex to really explain on card reminder text.

Countering a spell probably has to be one the most unintuitive interactions in a game that has no implicit explanations written on any piece of Magic ephemera.

So, yeah, I dropped that huge chunk of keyword and reminder text. I put the consequence keyword in as a card subtype. I actually think the whole mechanic works easier if these cards that can only be cast from graveyards are actually a new special subtype of card. Like tribal, but not broken.

It would also lead to some potentially interesting interplay with Goyf and the Delirium cards currently in Standard.

 

[Infinite Stars]

That article actually brought up a good point wrt "Making Planeswalkers more narrow" ala Tezzeret AoB. Would Gideon be so much worse if he made 1/2 Soldier Allies instead, making him be better for Ally decks? Or Jace/Tamiyo from having the word Investigate on them, so they're still good but work better in certain decks?

I think part of the other issue is that they still want to try to make these new card designs that go counter to both the colors and the previous cards(Liliana of the Dark Realm). There's no reason why Nissa should be a better draw engine then Jace, or that Gideon(who never had Token making abilities/Anthems) should get it in BFZ. It's like how Liliana, who has had nearly every card before Dark Realms/Last Hope didn't focus on Mana Ramp/Have the ability to machine gun down creature. I'd very much like to have consistency in what the Gatewatch characters do, even if it can be a bit weird.

Spoiler

still can't get over how the Nissa that makes Ashaya Tokens isn't from BFZ Block and how.. unNissa 2.0 VoZ is minus the Ultimate.

 

[Supast4r]

Is SFM fetching a one off (susceptible to either discard orsorcery speed removal taking out the SFM) and then cheating that equip in for 2 more really that absurd in beater efficiency these days? We've got 1 mana 7/7s, 2 mana 4/4s that set up your draws/ and the classic 2 mana 5/6 or 6/7 that is goyf. I don't really feel like it's *that* far off what we have. Without Jitte in the format and no desire on WotC's end to print equipment in line with the swords- never mind batterskull- I'm not sure SFM is that broken anymore. White could use some help too.

It goes into bant eldrazi really easily and will make that deck even better. To get mystic unbanned you have to unban bloodbraid and jace at the same time. Wizards believes in having a lower powered format because it's easier to manage with banning cards rather than putting unknowns in your formats.

 

[Yeef]

There's no reason why Nissa should be a better draw engine then Jace, or that Gideon(who never had Token making abilities/Anthems) should get it in BFZ.[/spoiler]

It's a flavor thing. Gideon always sort of did his own thing, but, between Gatecrash and BFZ he found himself becoming the defacto leader in the fight against the Eldrazi. I'd be surprised if his Amonkhet card made tokens.

 

[SigmasonicX]

On the subject of the Consequences frame, one thing to note is that according to MaRo, less experienced players only look at the mana cost up until the point where they can cast it, and only then do they look at the rest of the text. This is a big issue they've had with alternative mana costs, but for years, they haven't found a good way to draw attention to the alternate cost, so they haven't done anything about it.

Given that, a potential issue with making the regular and Consequences parts the same size is that, if there is a Consequences cost lower than the regular cost, the player may not actually look at the card until they reach that cost, and then get really confused as they go "wait, can I cast this?" The frame they went with establishes a clear hierarchy with the effects, and emphasizes that only one can be used from their hand.

 

[Infinite Stars]

It goes into bant eldrazi really easily and will make that deck even better. To get mystic unbanned you have to unban bloodbraid and jace at the same time. Wizards believes in having a lower powered format because it's easier to manage with banning cards rather than putting unknowns in your formats.

Mystic would not go into Bant Eldrazi. It has 0 Synergy with anything in the Deck, and I don't see the deck That can regularly drop TKS Turn 2 and is focused around Colorless Eldrazi cutting 5+ spots for Mystic+Equipment when it's not grabbable by Stirrings/Doesn't fit into the curve of "T2 3Drop"

 

[y2dvd]

So i'm looking to get into Magic. Sent a message to a FLGS here and they said Thursday would be best to swing by and learn a bit since that's their casual night and they have 'magic specialists' there that night. Been watching some draft videos (mostly because I find them enjoyable) and will be downloading Magic Duels to get the basics prior to Thursday. I guess the idea is to get the hang of it prior to the next pre-release. The have casual night here on Thursday and on FNM they change the event week to week. Looking forward to it as I've mostly just watched streams and followed it from a far but with some more free time with how work is going I think it's a good time to jump in.

Welcome! Just let people know you're new and most players are willing to help. This one guy at FNM practically stalked me and asked me all sorts of questions and came by the next week with my exact same deck lol.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I feel kinda dickish taking a bunch of foil signets and shard lands out of a draft that I was just gonna drop from, but on the other hand, dat foil Rakdos Signet tho.

 

[Santiako]

Duel Decks: Mind vs. Might Decklists

Nothing expensive in there, but some really neat things like new art for ZoZu the Punisher, 3 Rift Bolts, new art for The Unspeakable, a Coat of Arms and some other stuff. Decks look decent enough.

 

[red13th]

Nothing I'm interested in but Coat of Arms is a cool reprint.

EDIT: Also, Snap, nice. I wonder if it has new art.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Right. This thread exists.

I personally never liked the split cards, and the formatting they used for them either. I hate the weird sideways orientation on them. I'd like something like the old flip cards if they're going to push this kind of mechanic. I think you could differentiate them by keeping both sides, or both cards oriented upright, and adjusting the frame or something on the graveyard part of the card.

I did this little mock up of what I'd rather see these cards look like. The current design is really weird and too over thought it seems. I feel like it just creates more confusion than it solves.

I actual really like the design of split cards but I must admit that's mostly because I find the two mini-cards to be completely adorable. As for the these new frames, well, I'll want to see them in person first to determine if I think they're weird but functional or just weird. I will say that I like at least the concept of the layout clearly indicating how they work.

Duel Decks: Mind vs. Might Decklists

Nothing expensive in there, but some really neat things like new art for ZoZu the Punisher, 3 Rift Bolts, new art for The Unspeakable, a Coat of Arms and some other stuff. Decks look decent enough.

The actual cards being reprinted aren't the most exciting choices but, as you point out, the new art we've seen is nice at least.

 

[kirblar]

The card will look perfect once its in your graveyard.

 

[Joe Molotov]

The card will look perfect once its in your graveyard.

This sounds vaguely threatening. lol

 

[aidan]

Why not just template it like Bloodrush?

Dawn // Dusk
2WW
Sorcery

Destroy all creatures with power 3 or less.

3WW, Exile this card from your graveyard: Return all creatures with power 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.

Why the need for a whole new card frame?

 

[charlequin]

Why not just template it like Bloodrush?

Bloodrush only works because it's the same exact effect every time and all the buffs are proportionate to the creature you're discarding. These are all completely different effects.

Also, you can't make it into a counterable spell with the Bloodrush template, only an ability, which is a pretty significant boost in power to a mechanic like this.

Also also you have to print "play this only as a sorcery," which is ugly and kills some of whatever benefit you're getting in the first place.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The idea is that you rotate it 90 degrees in your graveyard, right? It's clever, but very weird.

 

[aidan]

Bloodrush only works because it's the same exact effect every time and all the buffs are proportionate to the creature you're discarding. These are all completely different effects.

Also, you can't make it into a counterable spell with the Bloodrush template, only an ability, which is a pretty significant boost in power to a mechanic like this.

Also also you have to print "play this only as a sorcery," which is ugly and kills some of whatever benefit you're getting in the first place.

Makes sense. I forgot about the uncounterability of templating it that way.

 

[kirblar]

The idea is that you rotate it 90 degrees in your graveyard, right? It's clever, but very weird.

Ya.

 

[Santiako]

The new Zo-Zu art is so good.

 

[MoxManiac]

The new MSRP of the duel deck is hard to swallow with those decklists. Ugh.

 

[kirblar]

The new MSRP of the duel deck is hard to swallow with those decklists. Ugh.

They don't want them being eaten for parts by competitive players. I wouldn't expect Izzet/Golgari or Elspeth/Tezz again.

 

[OnPoint]

The new MSRP of the duel deck is hard to swallow with those decklists. Ugh.

Wait what is the new MSRP?

 

[Joe Molotov]

lmao, I'd never seen Boldwyn Intimidator before.

Cowards can't block Warriors. Best rules text ever.

 

[Santiako]

The idea is that you rotate it 90 degrees in your graveyard, right? It's clever, but very weird.

Yeah, like this.

 

[MoxManiac]

They don't want them being eaten for parts by competitive players. I wouldn't expect Izzet/Golgari or Elspeth/Tezz again.

I get that they don't want them being bought out by competitive players but to me the solution is to include value and print the shit out of it to the point that competitive demand won't outstrip the casual audience its intended for.

New msrp is $25, up from $20.

 

[OnPoint]

Yeah, raising the price and lowering the quality is a bad look.

I'll sit it out.

So I guess mission accomplished in that way, since I'm a constructed player who won't mine it for parts, though, normally I buy these to play against each other and the additional value helps justify the purchase. Won't bother this time around.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I pissed my opponent off in MMA draft yesterday.

I went for a lethal attack and he didn't block, so I said "are you sure? You can still block" because I wanted to use my Damnation to win with my Falkenrath Noble.

He wasn't amused, but in my defense, this is a guy I'm well-acquainted with and on friendly terms with (and have been for literal years) and I didn't really notice he was salty about losing the game to my Wall of Frost and not likely to find the joke amusing. It was also a meaningless match for the grand prize of $4.

They don't want them being eaten for parts by competitive players. I wouldn't expect Izzet/Golgari or Elspeth/Tezz again.

I'm pretty skeptical people would actually buy these out if they had a single Mishra's Bauble in them or something.

 

[MoxManiac]

The only way I'd be willing to get one is if it drops to $15-16. Which isn't necessarily impossible, I got the Nissa vs Ob one for like $13 awhile back.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Also "print the shit out of [desirable product] isn't how WOTC operates. They have good reasons for doing so that the community is never going to understand because the community's grasp on the economics of printing a collectible card game is pretty suspect.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I see one vendor already has them listed for $18

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/wocc09270.html

 

[kirblar]

They do get bought out if they have too many money cards. DD are an intro product they want sitting on mainstream store shelves.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't know about that. They had an intro product that had fetchlands and Hangarback Walkers in them at a time when those were expensive and they didn't sell out at all.

 

[kirblar]

Ive seen it happen before. Ive been one of those people hunting decks at walmart/target.

 

[phazedplasma]

lmao, I'd never seen Boldwyn Intimidator before.

Cowards can't block Warriors. Best rules text ever.

damn, ribic does magic art now

 

[Angry Grimace]

damn, ribic does magic art now

It's the only piece of art the artist ever did for Magic and its from Future Sight.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The idea is that you rotate it 90 degrees in your graveyard, right? It's clever, but very weird.

Why would you though? They won't add rules requiring you to do so and you should conceal the information for the possibility your opponent forgets the card is in there.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Why would you though? They won't add rules requiring you to do so and you should conceal the information for the possibility your opponent forgets the card is in there.

It's a real problem for Flashback with less experienced opponents so I appreciate them trying something to make it more obvious.

 

[red13th]

Yeah, like this.

Hmmm this makes me hate the frame a bit less. Still fugly but can be functional I guess?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, from a functional standpoint I think the frame makes sense. When you see it in your hand you can only cast the half you can read. Secondly, sure, if you put it in your graveyard like that, you can poke it out and people can see that that it can be cast.

 

[Giant Panda]

Why would you though? They won't add rules requiring you to do so and you should conceal the information for the possibility your opponent forgets the card is in there.

It's targeted more towards helping the player remember it's in their own graveyard.

 

[aidan]

Yeah, like this.

I don't envy the MTGO team in trying to integrate this into the online client...

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's targeted more towards helping the player remember it's in their own graveyard.

I actually think the main idea wasn't putting it in the yard sideways. I think they wanted a visual cue that that you only have the ability to cast one of the halves from your hand, which is the side you read face-up when you draw the card into your hand.

I don't envy the MTGO team in trying to integrate this into the online client...

I doubt its a problem at all. From a functional standpoint its not that different than any other number of cards.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's targeted more towards helping the player remember it's in their own graveyard.

You put the card into your deck, you won't forget.

 

[aidan]

I doubt its a problem at all. From a functional standpoint its not that different than any other number of cards.

Whoops. I meant the visual representation of having it stick out the side of the graveyard, not the the functionality.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Whoops. I meant the visual representation of having it stick out the side of the graveyard, not the the functionality.

I don't think that's the actual point; I think the point is to differentiate these cards from traditional split cards that let you cast either half from your hand and in which the use condition is always the same (all split cards share types). But I think the point of messing with the orientation was to make it clear that each half operates in a completely different fashion.

On MTGO, any cards you can cast out of the graveyard are lit up at any time you can cast them, including flashback cards or cards under the effect of Yawgmoth's Will, etc.

 

[kirblar]

How the heck is that gy implementation not blatantly obvious to people lookong at the frame? I dont understand this.

 

[Angry Grimace]

How the heck is that gy implementation not blatantly obvious to people lookong at the frame? I dont understand this.

Because I don't think that's the point. I think its more that they operate differently than traditional split cards, which have been in something like 4 different sets.

 

[ultron87]

Sideways cards in the graveyard mean exiled to me.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Sideways cards in the graveyard mean exiled to me.

Sure, you can do it that way, but I don't think it makes sense to tell players to orient them that way anyways unless they happen to want to do it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

How the heck is that gy implementation not blatantly obvious to people lookong at the frame? I dont understand this.

Once again why would you? I don't expect to see that constellation ever on stream, playing standard or EDH. It's beginner friendly at best.

It's a real problem for Flashback with less experienced opponents so I appreciate them trying something to make it more obvious.

They did have the graveyard symbol but never tried that again for some reason.