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Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
with weldfast engineer it does matter a bit. You could buff a servo to crew a vehicle. Same with tool craft exemplar, even worse if your only artifact is a vehicle you'd want to wait with the crewing until that trigger resolved in case of removal.
All that is easily possible with the current shortcut in place though.
edit: apparently "pass priority" doesn't work that way in main phase 1? That'd would be bull, it doesn't get any more explicit.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
That's fair, yeah- Beginning of Combat triggers are relevant, for sure. In this case, I'd have to watch the video to better understand. I will, though.
Not sure if I follow. Priority passing works with Active Player -> Non-Active Player, right? Once priority has been passed twice with nothing done, you move on?
charlequin
Banned
One of my direct reports actually pulled me aside at work to complain about this today, lolz.
I think the issue here is that if you think about this as a shortcut it's easy to understand how it works, but you're not necessarily going to be thinking of it that way. If you're in your main phase and for whatever reason your goal is to move to the beginning of combat step, far and away the most obvious and natural way to do that would be to start by saying explicitly what you're moving to: the start of combat. This ruling, in order to try to prevent a different kind of linguistic trickery, creates this situation where you have to know this precise trick (straight-up declaring the move and the action you take at BoC in the same sentence) to ensure you always accomplish your goal instead of advancing further.
I think the issue here is that if you think about this as a shortcut it's easy to understand how it works, but you're not necessarily going to be thinking of it that way. If you're in your main phase and for whatever reason your goal is to move to the beginning of combat step, far and away the most obvious and natural way to do that would be to start by saying explicitly what you're moving to: the start of combat. This ruling, in order to try to prevent a different kind of linguistic trickery, creates this situation where you have to know this precise trick (straight-up declaring the move and the action you take at BoC in the same sentence) to ensure you always accomplish your goal instead of advancing further.
SigmasonicX
Member
"Pass priority" is hardly a common phrase. Most players don't even know what priority is, and I think it isn't unreasonable for players to name the step/phase they want to go to instead, implicitly asking if the opponent wants to respond.
Magic instinct is to wait for the last moment possible to perform an action, and for crewing vehicles to attack, that's during start of combat.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
After really pondering, I think I am wrong.
Shortcuts aside, if someone says, "Combat?", they could be implying the end of their first Main Phase. Then, in the Beginning of Combat, you need to pass priority again.
Anyway. Combat is super fucked lol
Definitely. I have gotten burned by that ever since I learned the concept. For example, how many times have you (global you) forgotten to play a land after deciding that you will 2nd Main it. I def have, a lot, haha. Now, I don't mess with it (casual player).
Interestingly, I used to work with someone that is on some sort of Rules Panel for WotC and is always credited on the rules revisions stuff. I didn't play Magic then, but I wish I did and knew him better to ask questions etc. He got free boxes, too, which makes me jealous
Shortcuts aside, if someone says, "Combat?", they could be implying the end of their first Main Phase. Then, in the Beginning of Combat, you need to pass priority again.
Anyway. Combat is super fucked lol
Definitely. I have gotten burned by that ever since I learned the concept. For example, how many times have you (global you) forgotten to play a land after deciding that you will 2nd Main it. I def have, a lot, haha. Now, I don't mess with it (casual player).
Interestingly, I used to work with someone that is on some sort of Rules Panel for WotC and is always credited on the rules revisions stuff. I didn't play Magic then, but I wish I did and knew him better to ask questions etc. He got free boxes, too, which makes me jealous
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It should be a common phrase. You're passing priority whenever you ask if a spell resolves, you're passing priority whenever you cast a spell. Knowing priority is a big step to improving even at regular level.
It's pretty important in limited to force opponents to make certain moves. It's even more important in EDH where priority has to pass in order.
Heck it explains simple things like your opponents being unable to do shit after you resolved a spell until you do something that's not a mana ability or morph. So maybe tap the city of brass to cast the spell and remember to crack your fetchland before it resolves.
I wish someone would have drilled AP NAP at the same time into me as someone explained me first in last out on the stack and spells resolve top to bottom.
this kind of mentality teaches bad habits. You should always consider what's the most opportune moment instead of adhering to such a guideline. It also goes strictly against the "cast spells during control player's upkeep" school of thought.
Again, the shortcut only applies at Competitive REL and higher. If you're playing in a Competitive tournament (like a GP or a PPTQ) or a Professional tournament (like the Pro Tour or Worlds) you should know the rules. It's just part of playing at that level.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Need to cut 2 cards for Origins Nissa and Origins Jace
I was thinking Sakura Tribe Elder for jace but am Drawing blanks on what to cut for Nissa. Also was considering a splendid reclamation and realized I can play vesuva for an easier scapeshift kill, now only need 21 lands to kill a whole table.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Copycat is warping the metagame around it. It actually didn't convert very well specifically because it was such an obviously powerful deck that players could next level it pretty efficiently.
Yeah. Ben Starks comments of "Jeskai Saheeli is a control deck with 8 bad cards" comment really sticks out.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
UW flash got nothing from AER and lost 2 pieces. GB got snake into rishkar while UW flash can't even ref mage the snake anymore.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm more looking at what to cut than what to add. Mulch is good am also considering Krupix' Insight (mill 6 all enchantments in hand), Yavimaya Elder is a bit slow imo as is Greenseeker.
Currently thinking of cutting courser of Kruphix and switched Burning of Xinye for Destructive force as the former only affects a single player.
I have a consecrated sphinx lying around right now I could also add.
Ghirapur Orrery, Explore, Borborygmos Enraged, Burning of Xinye are the first things I'd probably cut.
SigmasonicX
Member
What's with this music during the standings?
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Oh, I thought you were looking to swap - that makes sense. I have a casual Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant deck (60 card) and what I like about Greenseeker is the ability to turn non-land draws into lands in hand. But yeah, you probably have a better grasp of what your deck needs.
Looks fun / weird, though! Now that I read your post more accurately, lol, do you feel Snapcaster is super important? I feel like you would want more colour-efficiency... Are the Swans crucial?
EDIT: I see the Swans + draw interaction since you are damaging them. Neat, lol. But I wonder if it will come up, given one card... depends on redundancy vs. hilarity, I guess
Specifically thinking about O Nissa.Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm already a bit past that built. Current is:
Borborygmos seems like a good idea and means I should probably also cut the Swans. Explore sounds good as well. Might just go up a bit on the amount of lands 36 not counting Glacial Chasm is a fairly low amount. I cut tangle wire since I have no way to abuse it really.
Snapcaster helps a lot by being whatever you just need it to be. Swans would be a combo with Seismic Assault and Borborygmos allowing you to throw lands at them to draw more cards and more lands but if I cut borborygmos which I should I should cut the Swans as well.
Means I'm gonna have room for Bring to Light and some interaction as well. Gotta find room for Beast Within.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
I'm relatively new to playing EDH, do you have any loose rules around when you would go below 40 lands / sources?
Swans is cute with the Seismic Assault effects and Global damage spells, but I personally wouldn't play them. Also, you don't have that many draw spells, so Solitary Confinement seems hard to keep up. Collective Restraint seems the best propaganda for a 4 colour deck, so maybe try to swap that in somewhere. Tireless Tracker could be too slow too, but I'm not really sure (I haven't played it in EDH).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's what I've always hovered around for all my decks, 36 mana producing lands + ~7 ramp/artifact mana.
Tireless tracker is the perfect amount of appearing not too threatening, while actually being extremely powerful and it always replaces itself.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
For this deck price is mostly irrelevant I'm planning to proxy it first then assemble it over the coming months. I originally had added crucible but cut it when I removed the strip mine. Should put both back in.
Is Ugin or Karn the better win condition? I think I'm better off with Karn since Ugin minus would kill my stax pieces.
I like Karn more since his ultimate usually makes everyone else concede so it's basically a win.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Ok changelog:
Code:
-1 Borborygmos Enraged
-1 Courser of Kruphix
-1 Explore
-1 Ghirapur Orrery
-1 Sphere of Safety
-1 Swans of Bryn Argoll
+1 Beast Within
+1 Bring to Light
+1 Collective Restraint
+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Karn Liberated
+1 Strip Mine"God's Beard!"
Member
Travis Woo playing the last round of the Pro Tour for Gold and 5 invites.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
BDM getting overly excited over seeing the same guys play each other every single tournament gets kinda old. It's basically just 30 guys playing each other over and over and over because the vast majority of PT fields are just fodder who don't have the resources to fly cross country for 10 days of extensive testing with other pros because they have to go to work.
They should just eliminate draws in the last round of Swiss. Would solve a lot of problems, and its the last round of the day anyways.
They should just eliminate draws in the last round of Swiss. Would solve a lot of problems, and its the last round of the day anyways.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'm rooting for Ivan Floch to somehow sneak in as the 8th seed.
I haven't watched any of the pro tour and I'm about to leave again but I assume he's playing Sphinx's Revelation.
I haven't watched any of the pro tour and I'm about to leave again but I assume he's playing Sphinx's Revelation.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
People are still drawing into top 8? Lol.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
As I said, the solution I came up with:
Final round of Swiss in PT's is untimed and without draws. Play until there is a winner, period. Refusal to play results in double DQ. It's really simple and as its the final round, it doesn't unduly delay the tournament - at most you extend the last round by maybe 30 minutes to get to the Top 8 cut.
Yeah, Karn is easily a better win-con. Ugin is really only better when his -X doesn't hit your stuff.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Continuing to allow IDs in the PT becomes particularly troubling once you start officially sanctioning teams in the tournament.
100% agree with you here
Looks good. I know it's not very original, but I always like to stick in an Avenger of Zendikar in my green decks since he's such a good win condition and generator of blockers on its own.
I agree, it adds another layer of collusion and advantage for the name pros.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I do have one, gonna decide once I have a couple actual games in with the deck.
Just remembered two dickish cards that would probably be pretty good in your deck: Stranglehold and Price of Glory.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Not sure about price, Stranglehold would shut down some decks for good. Definitely food for thought.
Man the whole vehicle combat controversy got me confused now. So beginning of combat (before the declare attackers phase) is the latest phase to crew vehicles before attacking correct? Does the priority goes back to the opponent to allow them to say, tap down the vehicle before attack step?
Yes and yes.
Hi there, I've been lurking here for a while and finally got my account validated.
Got a PPTQ tomorrow, and very likely gonna end up playing 4 Color Saheeli. These PT results are not intimidating me, the deck is just too sweet. Just not sure about my configuration yet. I wonder if I should try fitting in some Delirium and Ishkanahs in there to battle Heart of Kiran decks.
Got a PPTQ tomorrow, and very likely gonna end up playing 4 Color Saheeli. These PT results are not intimidating me, the deck is just too sweet. Just not sure about my configuration yet. I wonder if I should try fitting in some Delirium and Ishkanahs in there to battle Heart of Kiran decks.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
So wait, from Twitch chat bot: "The Top 8 broadcast will begin at 9am UTC."
That's tomorrow at 1am (PST)?
That's tomorrow at 1am (PST)?
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