It has an original ending yeah? It's not bullshit like the Soul Eater anime's shitty ending?
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Manga Discussion/News Thread |OT5| We Post on Wednesdays
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It has an original ending yeah? It's not bullshit like the Soul Eater anime's shitty ending?
Glass Rebel
Member
So what you're saying is, that Ichigo survived a almost fatal blow the same way Luffy did the fight against Crocodile? By a plot-device. Glad we're clear on that.
Good effort on the explanation though, appreciate it.
Good effort on the explanation though, appreciate it.
It's not a very good original ending.
1) The point is that you drag into things whenever someone criticises Bleach, and then blame them for it.
2) That's not the only time you've done it, just the one that came to mind first and was easy to find.
3) When do I mention Bleach? I've been posting since OT1 and I barely ever mention it. And Definitely not in comparison to any other series.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Attacking One Piece out of nowhere, desperate attempts to rationalise shit Bleach storytelling.
Off to a good start, OT5.
Off to a good start, OT5.
ColossalLazy
Member
We are missing the Naruto hate.
Black Republican
Member
wait, when did to love ru come back? i thought it finished?
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I did not say that Bleach does not have faults. I was pissed off at the way Kubo treated the nakama in the previous arc (even though it was necessary to isolate and develop Ichigo) and for the shinigami interfering. However it always seems to me in this thread that people always say Bleach´s power level are (insert unflattering remark) as if other manga do not suffer from the same thing. And most of these unflattering remarks come from well known one piece fans in here, hence my reaction. People can like what they want and legitimately critic something without trolling. Hell, Gumbo critic Bleach every single week, i almost don´t say anything because he is giving his honest opinion without bashing, etc...
It seems to me a lot of people in this thread critic one manga and hold it to a higher critic level than other manga, which i don´t mind as long as i can do the same.
Currently Reading
Naruto
One Piece
Bleach
Shingeki no Kyojin
Fairy Tail
Hajime no Ippo
Katekyo Hitman Reborn
Gantz
Claymore
D. Gray Man
Hunter x Hunter
1/2 Prince
Paladin
Freezing
Tower of God
Witch Hunter
Dogz: Bullets and Carnage
Gundam Crossbones
King of Hell
Battle Angel Alita: Last Order
Ubel Blatt
Trinity Blood
Getbackers
Shin Angyo Onshi
Naruto
One Piece
Bleach
Shingeki no Kyojin
Fairy Tail
Hajime no Ippo
Katekyo Hitman Reborn
Gantz
Claymore
D. Gray Man
Hunter x Hunter
1/2 Prince
Paladin
Freezing
Tower of God
Witch Hunter
Dogz: Bullets and Carnage
Gundam Crossbones
King of Hell
Battle Angel Alita: Last Order
Ubel Blatt
Trinity Blood
Getbackers
Shin Angyo Onshi
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Lol. Where´s this from?
Gintama anime.
Edit: Don't know why I just typed anime, because that point should have been obvious.
I'll still give it a shot, but I'll be ready for a crap ending then.
Dedication Through Light
Member
I think it was a pretty interesting ending, pretty large scale and epic for the 25 or so episode series. I know I liked it more than Soul Eater's ending.
Glass Rebel
Member
It isn't the same though. It really isn't. I feel that Bleach fans fall into a collective state of cognitive dissonance every time someone mentions power-levels. It's been beaten to death but you guys still don't get it or don't want to. And then you act surprised when someone mocks Bleach. smfh
brotkasten
Member
Really, just wrong about this. I found Skypiea and FI way too long and extremely boring. Enel was such a filler character. If he wasn't, then I can't wait to see him coming back from the moon, 600 chapters from now, because, you know, Oda is so great at foreshadowing or whatever.
And when I start to talk about the annoying characters of the crew, I definitely will get killed in here. Usopp would be one of them. He was downright useless before the time skip, his story is absolute crap and he didn't really contribute to anything. "But he always fixed up the Going Marry!", so did everyone else over the story line. If he was good at it, they wouldn't need Franky (which is the only redeeming quality he has).
Exactly, and the hardcores are just as defensive when someone doesn't like it as much and both tend to glare over obvious flaws. But hey, Goda probably draws every panel with his own blood, so it's okay.
Seriously, this. The moment Arashi started, any and all enjoyment of the main series was instantly sucked out. That needs to just wrap up so Arashi can do something.
He uses the blood of innocents. Get it right.
Glass Rebel
Member
It was a joke dude. This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. I see the flaws in OP, I thought FI was too long as well etc. I just think it's ridiculous to bash it for subjective stuff by trying to make it sound like a fact.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Well I imagine you have problems with Bleach. I'm not trying to say you must think Bleach is perfect. Anyone who feels that way is well ... insane.
Well I don't pay much attention to most of the Bleach arguments. (especially the ones involving Big One and Angry Grimace) but the power level thing is iffy in quite some series, actually.
I think One Piece handles it best for a reason I'll explain at the end, but all of the big ones have power related issues. If you agree that Bleach as them as well that's perfectly fine, but when browsing through your posts I often see A LOT of issues being raised with OP from your side, while at the same time I see you defending a lot of stuff in Bleach.
It's perfectly fine by me if you accept that Bleach has the same faults, it just came across in your posts like you were specifically pushing OP as the prime example of this stuff.
To be frank, one reason I get involved in these arguments myself is because of one thing; I've seen, more than once now, you or someone else talk about "One Piece fans" as one uniform mass of ... well, insert unflattering remark here.
If it's certain OP fans triggering this sort of stuff I fully understand that. But I can't help but feel like I'm being drawn into this stuff simply by being an OP fan.
I don't really read Gumbo's posts, so can't comment much on this. But where do you draw the line between being a genuine critic and bashing?
I've seen colourful remarks and generalizing statements in your posts before. The fact that there's a lot of remarks about OP fans rather than OP itself is one thing.
But posts like Stat Flow's
aren't constructive in any way. They seem reactionary and purely meant to provoke a reaction.
If an argument starts with stuff like that, there's a bad atmosphere to begin with.
Why do you want to, though? Like, I'm genuinly curious as to why.
------------------
As I mentioned, I was gonna add a small thing about the OP powerlevels being my favourite.
There's two major pet peeves I have in shonen:
1 = abandoning nakama/the protagonist becoming so strong that everyone else just has to stare and talk about how sstrong he is.
2 = each arc villain being introduced as the strongest most epic thing in the world ever just for some bad guy to show up that was stronger all along.
I feel like OP does a great job keeping "nakama" in the loop and giving them a chance to shine all the way throughout the story. There are some nakama that don't get enough exposure (robin..) but it's almost never a power level issue.
The second point is, as I explained, I feel that with OP we have a clear "grasp" of what the strongest people in the world genuinly are.
An admiral popping up is flat out game over, it's not just another impossible obstacle to defeat. (after which we learn there are secretly omega-admirals, 100x stronger than an admiral)
These are normally such massive pet peeves of mine, that OP managing to do them okay for me "redeems" minor flaws on the side.
This actually brings me to the "higher criticism" thing you mentioned, because I understand it.
As someone who does comics himself I try to learn not just from stuff I like, but also why people dislike stuff and how it manifests and this higher criticism thing you mentioned is actually a nasty little thing.
It works like this:
1. Each people has their own personal taste, of course. And this taste is mostly related to "absolute loves" and "pet peeves/absolute hates".
For example, I absolutely "hate" stories that focus much more on the protagonist than necessary.
I first found this hate when I realised Squall from FF8 had to be in every. single. cutscene, even when there was no story reason for him to be there. I hated it, a lot.
This in turn means I get a naturally allergic reaction to any series that brings out this deep seeded hate. Naruto might be the prime example with how it abandoned it's rich side cast just like that.
2. Now here's where it gets interesting. Personally I've lurked around "snarking" communities that often exist around long running/bad webcomics. These invariably exist out of two groups.
a. people who used to like a story but have grown to hate it over time. (either due to growing up, the story getting worse or a variation of the two)
b. a small group of genuine fans who constantly get in fights with the snarkers.
Now one thing I've found incredibly amusing is that, a lot of snarkers tend to stand by the point that "the story used to be good but". (often seen with Naruto and the timeskip)
But in certain cases (not all) when people who have learned to hate a story re-read the story they used to love, they even hate the parts that made them love the series to begin with.
This actually super relates to the higher criticism thing you mentioned. Through their hate they've gotten much much more critical, and start pointing out/noticing flaws they never would've noticed when reading the story when they still liked it.
The problem I have with what I call "hypocritical" behaviour is this:
When elevating "higher criticism" between two different stories, I find it important to differentiate the things that genuinly turned you off from it & the stuff you simply notice because you're looking at it with a negative attitude to begin with.
Unless a series goes ridiculously overboard I'd be the last person to question the science behind the powers in Bleach, Naruto, OP or FT because, to be frank, all of them make a complete mockery of physics and nature in their own right.
When people argue that a logia like Kizaru should be able to just kill everyone and everything within one second I can't help but think that pretty much every big series has a character that should be able to just kill everything if they used their power "properly".
A bigger pet peeve of mine is when powers are introduced that are merely meant to show how badass another character is.
Shinji from Bleach & Tsunade from Naruto both had what I'd call a "mindfuck" power.
The first inverts all senses to an absurd degree, the second could reconnect nerves to completely mess over someone's muscle movements.
The fact that Aizen and Kabuto respectively managed to overcome such a crippling technique within mere seconds annoys me to no end. It's literally like the power is introduced as some sort of wankfest to show how "smart" the villain is.
Contrast this to Tossen and Kenpachi, where Kenpachi's way of fighting this insane bankai was pretty clever and badass.
Sure Tossen could've cut his neck immediately (and gotten rid of most captains this way, for that matter) but where's the entertainment in that? If a power's fun & it can have some type of weakness, even if it requires a stretch of logic, that's fine.
When people bring this stuff up as a criticism for why one particular shonen is bad, it just makes me scratch my head. Aren't pretty much all of them guilty of it in some way?
Anyway this post is long enough, ending it here, lol.
If you guys are going to bring me up completely at random, please at least get my name right.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Man I didn't know he was talking about you, I just took over the name he mentioned, lol.
Good heavens so many bitter fans.
I never talked about them recognizing him. I'm just saying they are lame fans if they support him.
I'm gonna have a lot of spare time the next weeks and won't be able to play video games then. Could you give me some recommendations which mangas to read?
The ones I've read so far:
20th Century Boys
Berserk
Claymore
Death Note
Elfen Lied (started many years ago, did not finish)
Gantz
Monster
Hellsing
Trigun (just a few chapters. didn't like it, dropped it)
Vinland Saga
Not that much, I know. The three recent ones I've read are Berserk, Vinland Saga and Claymore. I really loved them, and I'd like to read more manga similar to them. Not necessarily in terms of the setting (dark ages, fantasy), but in terms of seriousness. One of the main reasons why I dropped Trigun was that there were too much comedic elements/scenes for me. (But I've heard it would get quite serious later?)
No restrictions on the setting, although I have to say I'd prefer something different than a modern time real world setting like in Monster. Except if it's about anything supernatural like in Gantz.
Thanks in advance!
The ones I've read so far:
20th Century Boys
Berserk
Claymore
Death Note
Elfen Lied (started many years ago, did not finish)
Gantz
Monster
Hellsing
Trigun (just a few chapters. didn't like it, dropped it)
Vinland Saga
Not that much, I know. The three recent ones I've read are Berserk, Vinland Saga and Claymore. I really loved them, and I'd like to read more manga similar to them. Not necessarily in terms of the setting (dark ages, fantasy), but in terms of seriousness. One of the main reasons why I dropped Trigun was that there were too much comedic elements/scenes for me. (But I've heard it would get quite serious later?)
No restrictions on the setting, although I have to say I'd prefer something different than a modern time real world setting like in Monster. Except if it's about anything supernatural like in Gantz.
Thanks in advance!
Ubel Blatt
Shingeki no Kyojin
Does Pluto fit the bill? It's kinda modern times but it's more about robots and stuff.
Also if you like Gantz, you can give Kamisama no Iutoori a try. It's kinda new so not that many chapters are out but I believe it should be kinda similar.
Magi
If I look at the setting of the story + their eyes that gives it aw- WAIT A SECOND EGYPT IS IN AFRICA
GOD DAMMIT KREED
The only thing African-ish about it is the fact they're stronger than others, but consider that so many manga have some sort of combat clan. HxH, Double Arts, Shingeki no Kyojin, off the top of my head. It's common as hell.
If I look at the setting of the story + their eyes that gives it aw- WAIT A SECOND EGYPT IS IN AFRICA
GOD DAMMIT KREED
Vagabond
Blade of the Immortal
Magi
LOL, I wasn't trying to imply Egypt wasn't in Africa. I was just saying the characters (like many of the other "white washed" characters in Magi) could at least look more Egyptian if that's where they are supposed to be from. Sure in the black and white pages, Morgiana does have hair/eyes that fit the imagery of Egyptians from that time period, but her light complexion and red hair kills it. But then again knowing Magi, I have a feeling once we run into some evil/non main characters from the Finalist Clan, they'll have more Egyptian/African features (hell, if that black silhouette of random members from Finalist Clan showing members with blow darts and spears is any indicator, it's almost guaranteed).
LOL, I wasn't trying to imply Egypt wasn't in Africa. I was just saying the characters (like many of the other "white washed" characters in Magi) could at least look more Egyptian if that's where they are supposed to be from. Sure in the black and white pages, Morgiana does have hair/eyes that fit the imagery of Egyptians from that time period, but her light complexion and red hair kills it. But then again knowing Magi, I have a feeling once we run into some evil/non main characters from the Finalist Clan, they'll have more Egyptian/African features (hell, if that black silhouette of random members from Finalist Clan showing members with blow darts and spears is any indicator, it's almost guaranteed).
Glass Rebel
Member
Weren't red haired mummies found in Egypt?
Goodnight Punpun (v02)
-God is a troll.
A lot happens in vol2 include a very important time skip. However, most events detail the growing pain struggles. There was the incident at the factory however that was quite minor compared to everything else. That cliffhanger line though... More importantly is Punpun's family changes, friend moving away, Aiko moving on, etc... The hallucinatory imagery is also toned down and seems like more of an inner reflection of the person.
The basic premise I'm seeing though is a group of people who want what they don't have. Children want to be adults to solve adult problems. Adults want to be children because they can't stand adult problems that can't be solved. "God" here is the voice that states these truths. Aiko wants to be somewhere else and Punpun wants to stay with his dad. That tearful farewell was quite powerful.
I'm not going to write too much more about the story or rate it per say as I am still early. But I wanted to say that the art really surprised me. Vol2 has an incredible two page spread mixed in. Some of the details and anatomy are impressive. Sure, you can say the cartoon or chicken-scratch allows focus elsewhere. And that is probably true to a degree. The art does have its moments though even if a lot of it could be assistant done.
Vol in 3 (growing, time, farewells)
-God is a troll.
A lot happens in vol2 include a very important time skip. However, most events detail the growing pain struggles. There was the incident at the factory however that was quite minor compared to everything else. That cliffhanger line though... More importantly is Punpun's family changes, friend moving away, Aiko moving on, etc... The hallucinatory imagery is also toned down and seems like more of an inner reflection of the person.
The basic premise I'm seeing though is a group of people who want what they don't have. Children want to be adults to solve adult problems. Adults want to be children because they can't stand adult problems that can't be solved. "God" here is the voice that states these truths. Aiko wants to be somewhere else and Punpun wants to stay with his dad. That tearful farewell was quite powerful.
I'm not going to write too much more about the story or rate it per say as I am still early. But I wanted to say that the art really surprised me. Vol2 has an incredible two page spread mixed in. Some of the details and anatomy are impressive. Sure, you can say the cartoon or chicken-scratch allows focus elsewhere. And that is probably true to a degree. The art does have its moments though even if a lot of it could be assistant done.
Vol in 3 (growing, time, farewells)
I lost it here. That was the best ending to the chapter.
@ Kreed, I get what you're saying but Aladdin's hair is blue and most of the people in the manga have light skin tones (realistically it would be the opposite), and just look at Alibaba. The author's thankfully loose with the details. I think the eyes + hairstyle is enough to say the clan's from an Egypt-like.
Yea, really fucking impressive. Again I look at the art closely so my reads are quite slow for a series like this. I doubt any series will break my Biscuit Hammer read though. I was on a page for fucking ever sometimes. Some of the panels have object confusion but most are quite succinct. I do get a bit tired of the "photographic" type style after a while or the repetitive inserts (God, black guy at random, hallucination stuff, etc...). But panels like above are awfully well done. The factory especially had some really good panels and the small details are everywhere. Like why even draw the kid's wallet in his pants in that panel? Or put certain effort into populating the rooms in Punpun's house with stuff like the exercise bike.
Magi:
I don't have an issue with Aladdin since he's not really "human" in this series. Heck, if the series would be consistent with which characters have light skin tones and which ones didn't group wise, I wouldn't have any issues at all as all the main characters look like typical anime/manga characters design wise.
The problem I have is when characters like Alibaba somehow end up with blonde hair and lightly colored eyes and his evil/cowardly half brothers end up with dark hair and more "Arabian facial features". And this has been common with most of the "bad guys/non main characters" in this manga.
I don't have an issue with Aladdin since he's not really "human" in this series. Heck, if the series would be consistent with which characters have light skin tones and which ones didn't group wise, I wouldn't have any issues at all as all the main characters look like typical anime/manga characters design wise.
The problem I have is when characters like Alibaba somehow end up with blonde hair and lightly colored eyes and his evil/cowardly half brothers end up with dark hair and more "Arabian facial features". And this has been common with most of the "bad guys/non main characters" in this manga.
Black Republican
Member
lmao at the last panel of ch87 of Aiki " i get the woman!"
Grandpa's on some borderline rapist shit
Grandpa's on some borderline rapist shit
It just... never caught on. The translation groups translated Shingeki no Kyojin instead, and somehow everyone gravitated there.
This. I've kind of come to accept that the main characters of an exotic themed shonen manga will always be the most "Japanese looking", but situations like the one mentioned above still stand out like a sore thumb.
Dedication Through Light
Member
No. 6 14
Ack torture. Painful. Though I couldnt even remember it happening in the anime. Shion shouldnt have been there to watch.
Ack torture. Painful. Though I couldnt even remember it happening in the anime. Shion shouldnt have been there to watch.
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