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[Spiegel]

It's not just exclusives. Vita has many high-profile multiplatforms.

The original post had to do with the support 3DS gets considering it's the market leader, not another 3DS/PSV war. If we go there many 3DS exclusives are crap low budget games and I see many multiplatform and ports in there too.

But in the end, what are third parties doing?
Putting their biggest franchises exclusively on 3DS and putting some of their easy-to-port PS3 games on Vita, or putting previously expected Vita exclusives also on PS3.

I'm sure Sony would prefer Vita getting exclusive MH, Yokai Watch or Dragon Quest for example than playing the part of a second rate PS3 with those multiplatform games.

 

[uncredited male]

Based on? Haven't seen any mainline Persona title on a Nintendo console yet.

So...iOS?

 

[1st Course]

In Japan, The Vita Has More Upcoming Games Than Any Other Console

Not sure how to interpret this. And holy shit at Wii U

Number of games scheduled for release in Japan up to the end of March:

3DS: 17

Wii U: 2

PSP: 6

PS Vita: 39

PS3: 22

PS4: 22

Xbox 360: 4

Xbox One: 8

Blimey. Srsly only 2 fucking releases til March? Numbers like this make you wonder if Nintendo even bother with third parties at all, even dead systems like PSP/360 have more upcoming releases.

 

[Takao]

Do we have data to show that it is higher on the Vita than on the 3DS?

We have about a year of Famitsu estimations that would heavily imply Vita owners are more likely to buy a retail game digitally than 3DS owners. It's not a huge percentage (~10% of physical sales at best) but again, when you're selling 4000 units ...

 

[Nirolak]

I agree that a lot of blame falls on Nintendo's feet(they probably are just there going "WTF guys?" when they should be more proactive) but it's almost bewildering how intent publishers are to ignore such a sizable audience. Especially when as it has been put the 3DS essentially is the traditional market now in Japan.

I think at some point that just gets overwhelmed by the mobile market.

Like we just had 3.69 billion yen in traditional game sales when you combine all the hardware and software together for every platform in 2014.

The projection for mobile is to hit 8.24 billion yen in 2016 on games alone, and it was already at 5.47 billion in 2013:

The platform that publishers sit there and go "Oh god we have to get on here and be successful as soon as possible, no matter the cost." just ultimately isn't the 3DS.

Edit: In case it isn't clear "browser" here refers to mobile games that effectively open up a web browser and operate through that. It was popular on feature phones and early smartphone titles though most apps are "native" (running on the actual mobile hardware) now.

 

[Takao]

Blimey. Srsly only 2 fucking releases til March? Numbers like this make you wonder if Nintendo even bother with third parties at all, even dead systems like PSP/360 have more upcoming releases.

Numbers like that imply Nintendo doesn't bother with third parties, which is kind of the problem.

 

[Chris1964]

But in the end, what are third parties doing?
Putting their biggest franchises exclusively on 3DS and putting some of their easy-to-port PS3 games on Vita. Or previously expected Vita exclusives also on PS3.

I'm sure Sony would prefer Vita getting exclusive MH, Yokai Watch or Dragon Quest for example than playing the part of a second rate PS3 with those multiplatform games.

Continuing from last thread the reason I posted the number of games released last year is to show that with these releases you can't expect 3DS software sales to skyrocket. The reasons 3rd parties don't want to support the system is another matter and never mentioned it in this discussion.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I'd say the big reasons why you see more games on the Vita than the 3DS are...

1) Sony is better with 3rd party relationships than Nintendo is.
2) Most of the Vita games closely match the Vita's audience niche as opposed to the 3DS's more general audience.
3) Less difficult competition. You release an RPG on the 3DS and you're up against Nintendo, Square-Enix, and Atlus. You release an RPG on the Vita and you're mostly up against enhanced ports & smaller companies.
4) Better technology. Yeah, a lot of these games aren't pushing the Vita to its limits, but in general, it's a lot easier to make your low budget game look good when you've got power to spare and a decent screen resolution.

For smaller developers, visibility trumps install base. Yeah, if you want your game to sell millions, you gotta be on the popular platforms, but if you only need to sell 20,000, you're much more likely to find success on the niche platform that all the diehard fans of your genre own.

 

[Fraxin]

So...iOS?

Who knows what happens when the time comes. We're living in dark times.

 

[Nirolak]

So...iOS?

Who knows what happens when the time comes. We're living in dark times.

It already happened once:

 

[Pennywise83]

Titles that sell in small numbers, albeit have fostered a dedicated audience, are much better off on platforms such as Vita as oppose to the 3DS.

Mainstream titles are much better off seeking the largest install-base, and that would be 3DS.

Sometimes people miss the whole picture. 3DS has plenty of games that sell a few copies -and can be considered niche games, and developers that are happy with those results; 3DS doesn't only have the big companies such as Capcom, Level-5 and Square Enix.

Look at Rocket Company, FuRyu, Nippon Columbia, Success, Takara Tomy that keep developing on the system. It's not that there are only Gust, D3 and Nippon Ichi among small software houses: there are other developers that release niche games. What the 3DS showed, though, is that some of them could also break out if they are good / lucky enough; so you have Nippon Columbia selling 250k of a weird game based on a book with horrible characters; and FuRyu having its best-selling game on 3DS, with the right licensing; and so on. Even games that are regarded as flops on 3DS didn't sell much worse than an average niche PSV game, such as Girl Gift RPG by imageepoch or Crayon Shinchan games.

Also, 3DS installed base guarantees typically longer legs, even when overall LTD ends up being small. Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3rd showed that while the PSV version opened higher, it's the 3DS version that performed better in the long-run, and that's something software houses might consider if they sell a small amount of units.

 

[Fraxin]

It already happened once:

Is this the first SMT game that was released back at the SNES?

 

[Vena]

It already happened once:

To be fair, that's an old game from generations ago. Its cheap to port and running it won't be a problem.

P5 running well on a mobile without a heavy budget investment into the port, though? I doubt that, lol. How many high buget mobile success do we know of? Infinity Blade and a one-off from Chaos Rings, right?

 

[Spiegel]

Continuing from last thread the reason I posted the number of games released last year is to show that with these releases you can't expect 3DS software sales to skyrocket. The reasons 3rd parties don't want to support the system is another matter and never mentioned it in this discussion.

Well, yes, I agree with you. I've pointed in previous threads that 3DS has a surprisingly small number of new releases for a market leader. But Vita sure isn't taking most of that support away because one, a lot of those games are older ports or 20-50k sellers and two, the ones that are bigger are mostly PS3 games and only exist in the first place because 3DS can't run them easily.

It would be interesting to compare the number of releases (multiple SKU/platforms counted as only one release) from 7-8 years ago to now because they seem to have declined by a good amount in general.

 

[BlackJace]

Is this the first SMT game that was released back at the SNES?

Yessir, SMT I

 

[Wendler]

I already posted this in an older thread but:

It's just not overseas market interest, Sony also has just way better connections to 3rd party publishers (or rather puts more effort into making connections exist).

Nintendo is just not seeing the importance of such 3rd-party moves, because most of the heavy hitters on their platforms are first-party games, indicating they don't need to put an effort into connecting with 3rd-party developers. Meanwhile, Sony is grabbing all the smaller fish Nintendo is straight up ignoring, which made the small Vita (and, though different circumstances, soon to be PS4) revival possible.

Sony is just seriously encouraging other devs way more than Nintendo ever will and can. You're also seeing bigger stuff coming to fruition like Street Fighter V, No Man's Sky and stuff. Of course all the hundreds of exclusive indie games coming on PS4 & Vita and the crazy retail 3rd party ports.

I think, more than anything, Nintendo isn't even able to convince devs like Sony can.

 

[Nirolak]

Is this the first SMT game that was released back at the SNES?

Yes: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=785880

To be fair, that's an old game from generations ago. Its cheap to port and running it won't be a problem.

P5 running well on a mobile without a heavy budget investment into the port, though? I doubt that, lol. How many high buget mobile success do we know of? Infinity Blade and a one-off from Chaos Rings, right?

Define high budget.

Monster Strike has an active development team of 160 people: http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/13/7217617/monster-strike-yoshiki-okamoto

All told, between Mixi staff and contracting companies like Deluxe Games, Kimura says approximately 160 people have worked together to develop, market and support the game — a substantial number, many of which have worked on creating daily in-game events and regular online video shows to promote the game.

Edit:

Before someone asks, Wendler didn't get banned for his post here.

 

[Pennywise83]

The platform that publishers sit there and go "Oh god we have to get on here and be successful as soon as possible, no matter the cost." just ultimately isn't the 3DS.

If a software house wants to keep a broad portfolio of games, and usually they want, 3DS must be there as an option, unless you're a niche developers of certain games or you want to chase Western gamers. Also, business models in mobile and traditional video game markets differ a lot, so many times it's not a mutual exclusive choice; indeed, most of Japanese third parties are developing both on 3DS and mobile. Then you have some developer that never developed on it as they never developed on DS (I mean, Capcom was basically non-existent on DS outside Ace Attorney, and Konami as well), but there are other reason on that; even during PS2-era there were developers more inclined towards Xbox or GC for whichever reason.

 

[Oregano]

I think at some point that just gets overwhelmed by the mobile market.

Like we just had 3.69 billion yen in traditional game sales when you combine all the hardware and software together for every platform in 2014.

The projection for mobile is to hit 8.24 billion yen in 2016 on games alone, and it was already at 5.47 billion in 2013:

The platform that publishers sit there and go "Oh god we have to get on here and be successful as soon as possible, no matter the cost." just ultimately isn't the 3DS.

Edit: In case it isn't clear "browser" here refers to mobile games that effectively open up a web browser and operate through that. It was popular on feature phones and early smartphone titles though most apps are "native" (running on the actual mobile hardware) now.

All true. It's when you have people like Yuji Horii talking about fighting to increase the number of core gamers on home consoles that it almost feels like publishers are choosing to take the path of most resistance.

I am inclined to believe that Nintendo isn't as proactive as they should be but the sheer extent is almost unbelievable.

 

[Nirolak]

If a software house wants to keep a broad portfolio of games, and usually they want, 3DS must be there as an option, unless you're a niche developers of certain games or you want to chase Western gamers. Also, business models in mobile and traditional video game markets differ a lot, so many times it's not a mutual exclusive choice; indeed, most of Japanese third parties are developing both on 3DS and mobile. Then you have some developer that never developed on it as they never developed on DS (I mean, Capcom was basically non-existent on DS outside Ace Attorney, and Konami as well), but there are other reason on that; even during PS2-era there were developers more inclined towards Xbox or GC for whichever reason.

I think they certainly view it as an option, just that I don't think it's at the level where at every weekly strategy meeting publishers go "Why on earth aren't we doing more on 3DS!?!" versus a platform that's shooting up astronomically each year.

We see some Japanese publishers absolutely flooding onto mobile and also increasing the cost per game they make, which I feel is an outward sign of a panicked response to not being big on mobile.

 

[vinnygambini]

Sometimes people miss the whole picture. 3DS has plenty of games that sell a few copies -and can be considered niche games, and developers that are happy with those results; 3DS doesn't only have the big companies such as Capcom, Level-5 and Square Enix.

Look at Rocket Company, FuRyu, Nippon Columbia, Success, Takara Tomy that keep developing on the system. It's not that there are only Gust, D3 and Nippon Ichi among small software houses: there are other developers that release niche games. What the 3DS showed, though, is that some of them could also break out if they are good / lucky enough; so you have Nippon Columbia selling 250k of a weird game based on a book with horrible characters; and FuRyu having its best-selling game on 3DS, with the right licensing; and so on. Even games that are regarded as flops on 3DS didn't sell much worse than an average niche PSV game, such as Girl Gift RPG by imageepoch or Crayon Shinchan games.

Also, 3DS installed base guarantees typically longer legs, even when overall LTD ends up being small. Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3rd showed that while the PSV version opened higher, it's the 3DS version that performed better in the long-run, and that's something software houses might consider if they sell a small amount of units.

Penny plz

If I am a software publisher who publishes a specific genre, such as visual novel or erotic gameplay, my game is going to be on the Vita where that audience (18-35) is predominantly present; has high disposable income; platform provides higher digital attach rates (better for my margins); and offers me more visibility.

3DS is a highly competitive platform where I have to go against the likes of Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy spin-offs and Nintendo properties altogether - no thanks, too much risk.

It's all about weighing the pro's & cons.

 

[Chris1964]

Well, yes, I agree with you. I've pointed in previous threads that 3DS has a surprisingly small number of new releases for a market leader. But Vita sure isn't taking most of that support away because one, a lot of those games are older ports or 20-50k sellers and two, the ones that are bigger are mostly PS3 games and only exist in the first place because 3DS can't run them easily.

It would be interesting to compare the number of releases (multiple SKU/platforms counted as only one release) from 7-8 years ago to now because they seem to have declined by a good amount in general.

I have done this comparison before but since I've almost fnished with my database I'll do a very detailed when I find time. There were weeks at PS2 prime it got 20-30 games in a single day. Today it needs months.

Having said all these I'm sure monpiece will post again these are incomplete data, we need more parameters and Yokai-Watch is responsible because it canibalized other titles' sales.

 

[Oregano]

I think they certainly view it as an option, just that I don't think it's at the level where at every weekly strategy meeting publishers go "Why on earth aren't we doing more on 3DS!?!" versus a platform that's shooting up astronomically each year.

We see some Japanese publishers absolutely flooding onto mobile and also increasing the cost per game they make, which I feel is an outward sign of a panicked response to not being big on mobile.

That's the astonishing thing though. We actually had an investor ask Square Enix why they were ignoring the Vita.

 

[Moor-Angol]

Sometimes people miss the whole picture. 3DS has plenty of games that sell a few copies -and can be considered niche games, and developers that are happy with those results; 3DS doesn't only have the big companies such as Capcom, Level-5 and Square Enix.

Look at Rocket Company, FuRyu, Nippon Columbia, Success, Takara Tomy that keep developing on the system. It's not that there are only Gust, D3 and Nippon Ichi among small software houses: there are other developers that release niche games. What the 3DS showed, though, is that some of them could also break out if they are good / lucky enough; so you have Nippon Columbia selling 250k of a weird game based on a book with horrible characters; and FuRyu having its best-selling game on 3DS, with the right licensing; and so on. Even games that are regarded as flops on 3DS didn't sell much worse than an average niche PSV game, such as Girl Gift RPG by imageepoch or Crayon Shinchan games.

Also, 3DS installed base guarantees typically longer legs, even when overall LTD ends up being small. Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3rd showed that while the PSV version opened higher, it's the 3DS version that performed better in the long-run, and that's something software houses might consider if they sell a small amount of units.

so in the end 3DS is God and everyone who develops on it is happy and vita is shit, uh?

 

[Oregano]

so in the end 3DS is God and everyone who develops on it is happy and vita is shit, uh?

That's not what he said at all. He was arguing against the notion that smaller developers are inherently better served targetting Vita than 3DS.

 

[Pennywise83]

I think they certainly view it as an option, just that I don't think it's at the level where at every weekly strategy meeting publishers go "Why on earth aren't we doing more on 3DS!?!" versus a platform that's shooting up astronomically each year.

We see some Japanese publishers absolutely flooding onto mobile and also increasing the cost per game they make, which I feel is an outward sign of a panicked response to not being big on mobile.

Mobile games is "shooting up astronomically each year" but we have seen the majority of developers struggling with that and very few of them could consistently pull big earners. On the other hand you have a "safe" platform that could create the biggest media phenomenon of the past decade, i.e. YW, in less than 2 years. 3DS might be outdated or less attractive than mobile industry, but with an adequate strategy a software house might hugely succeed (in particular a software house that always developed on traditional systems).

Penny plz

If I am a software publisher who publishes a specific genre, such as visual novel or erotic gameplay, my game is going to be on the Vita where that audience (18-35) is predominantly present; has high disposable income; platform provides higher digital attach rates (better for my margins); and offers me more visibility.

3DS is a highly competitive platform where I have to go against the likes of Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy spin-offs and Nintendo properties altogether - no thanks, too much risk.

It's all about weighing the pro's & cons.

Visual novels and "erotic gameplay" (?) are, indeed, a tiny fraction of what is the video game market. That's why I said that you miss the whole picture: there are plenty of games that are not visual novels and "erotic gameplay", and those sell well on 3DS as well, in a niche kind of way. I gave you names and examples.

On 3DS you have many developers that are happy with their niche, and with selling around 30-40-50-60k units. PSV doesn't have the monopoly of niche games and charts show that.

 

[shinra-bansho]

If a software house wants to keep a broad portfolio of games, and usually they want, 3DS must be there as an option, unless you're a niche developers of certain games or you want to chase Western gamers.

But aren't those the publishers/developers we're essentially referring to that are eschewing 3DS development.

If I'm making an eroge that's got a market potential of like 3000 units or I'm trying to hit it big with a Tomb Raider reboot then my platform isn't going to be the 3DS and/or the installed base discrepancy isn't going to be as much a factor as other potential factors in play.

If my ambition and expectation is in the realm of millions in the domestic market, then that essentially rules out the Vita completely, and makes the 3DS likely the only dedicated platform choice.
But aren't we largely talking about games in specific niches that top out in terms of market potential at like 10K or whatever.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Penny plz

If I am a software publisher who publishes a specific genre, such as visual novel or erotic gameplay, my game is going to be on the Vita where that audience (18-35) is predominantly present; has high disposable income; platform provides higher digital attach rates (better for my margins); and offers me more visibility.

Well he didn't say that wasnt the case. It's a fact that there are many smaller devs on the 3DS, retail or eShop.

At the end it comes down to publishers delivering content that likely caters to hardcore users that own more than one system anyway but will if the have the chance obviously chose the superior Vita version. I think that's the case for most of these Vita only releases, they are catering to a niche that already own the system and sales potential on the 3DS isn't worth the port effort.

Same is the case when looking at the 3DS top Sellers like Yokai Watch, Monster Hunter and Co. ... Sure they could be multiplatform as well, but it's rarely worth the case since the targeted market is on 3DS anyways.

 

[Biker19]

Now we're getting somewhere. PS4 has finally cracked a million in Japan!

 

[Nirolak]

Mobile games is "shooting up astronomically each year" but we have seen the majority of developers struggling with that and very few of them could consistently pull big earners. On the other hand you have a "safe" platform that could create the biggest media phenomenon of the past decade, i.e. YW, in less than 2 years. 3DS might be outdated or less attractive than mobile industry, but with an adequate strategy a software house might hugely succeed (in particular a software house that always developed on traditional systems).



Visual novels and "erotic gameplay" (?) are, indeed, a tiny fraction of what is the video game market. That's why I said that you miss the whole picture: there are plenty of games that are not visual novels and "erotic gameplay", and those sell well on 3DS as well, in a niche kind of way. I gave you names and examples.

On 3DS you have many developers that are happy with their niche, and with selling around 30-40-50-60k units. PSV doesn't have the monopoly of niche games and charts show that.

How many publishers are creating major new hits on 3DS though?

I'm not convinced that's actually anywhere near the number of new IPs we've seen succeed on mobile since 2012 alone.

We already see many publishers release their bigger safe games on the 3DS so it's not like they dumped that front.

 

[Pennywise83]

But aren't those the publishers/developers we're essentially referring to that are eschewing 3DS development.

If I'm making an eroge that's got a market potential of like 3000 units or I'm trying to hit it big with a Tomb Raider reboot then my platform isn't going to be the 3DS and/or the installed base discrepancy isn't going to be as much a factor as other potential factors in play.

If my ambition and expectation is in the realm of millions in the domestic market, then that essentially rules out the Vita completely, and makes the 3DS likely the only dedicated platform choice.
But aren't we largely talking about games in specific niches that top out in terms of market potential at like 10K or whatever.

3DS has plenty of games selling below the 100k threshold, and many developers happy with that. Niche games are not exclusively visual novels or eroge games. My point was that 3DS has also niche games, and plenty of them. The average niche 3DS games is selling as well as the average niche games on any other platform. Numbers show that. Just look at the ranking of this week.

How many publishers are creating major new hits on 3DS though?

I'm not convinced that's actually anywhere near the number of new IPs we've seen succeed on mobile since 2012 alone.

We already see many publishers release their bigger safe games on the system.

Of course we saw much more on mobile; but then you should compare the whole traditional market with mobile market, not just 3DS. Anyway, you have many Japanese developers having one of their biggest games on 3DS: Capcom (Monster Hunter); Square Enix (Dragon Quest); Level-5 (Yokai Watch, Inazuma Eleven); Bandai Namco (Taiko no Tatsujin); Spike Chunsoft (Attack on Titan); Atlus (Persona, Shin Megami Tensei); GungHo (Puzzle & Dragons); Marvelous (Harvest Moon, Rune Factory). Then, of course, given the installed base there should be much more support, but that's another point entirely.

 

[Fraxin]

Now we're getting somewhere. PS4 has finally cracked a million in Japan!

I think its somewhat early to be optimistic. We need to see how it will sell this year, hopefully things will get better.

 

[shinra-bansho]

3DS has plenty of games selling below the 100k threshold, and many developers happy with that. Niche games are not exclusively visual novels or eroge games. My point was that 3DS has also niche games, and plenty of them. The average niche 3DS games is selling as well as the average niche games on any other platform. Numbers show that. Just look at the ranking of this week.

If you're point is that there are lots of niche games on the platform... I don't really see the point.
Unless you actually are arguing that they should simply all be on the 3DS.
Where a publisher has felt it made sense for them when weighing up the myriad factors holistically, they're putting their lots of niche games on the platform.

The argument isn't necessarily that niche titles are better served on the second string platform, although there's some argument to be made about relative visibility, demographics etc, but that given such limited market potential the disparity in installed base isn't the utmost consideration.

It rather gives way to those other factors as already mentioned.

 

[vinnygambini]

I don't even understand what we are debating anymore.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The fact that the Vita lives on!

 

[Vena]

Define high budget.

Monster Strike has an active development team of 160 people: http://www.polygon.com/2014/11/13/7217617/monster-strike-yoshiki-okamoto

Fair enough, lol.

But I was thinking more along the lines of repeated successes and multiples of them, and not just the top spots which are limited in number. What does the world of mid-tier mobile games look like? The types of games that still retail for 3-4000Y on the 3DS and sell a few/a hundred thousand copies there as well. That's what I was more looking for an answer to, lol.

I do not think of mobile as some sort of future haven for game development, so mind that my opinion of it is terribly jaded.

 

[Pennywise83]

If you're point is that there are lots of niche games on the platform... I don't really see the point. Unless you actually are arguing that they should simply all be on the 3DS.

The argument isn't necessarily that niche titles are better served on the second string platform, although there's some argument to be made about relative visibility, demographics etc, but that given such limited market potential the disparity in installed base isn't the utmost consideration.

It rather gives way to those other factors as already mentioned.

I was answering to the following sentence:

Titles that sell in small numbers, albeit have fostered a dedicated audience, are much better off on platforms such as Vita as oppose to the 3DS.

That's not entirely true in my opinion. You have plenty of 3DS titles selling in small numbers, and developers happy with them. Niche games are not just Gust's & Compile Heart's, there are other developers that release niche games on other platforms as well, and this weekly chart show this properly.

 

[Oregano]

How many publishers are creating major new hits on 3DS though?

I'm not convinced that's actually anywhere near the number of new IPs we've seen succeed on mobile since 2012 alone.

We already see many publishers release their bigger safe games on the 3DS so it's not like they dumped that front.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but how many have actually tried?

I guess the crux of it is that the traditional market is dying because publishers are letting it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I was answering to the following sentence:

That's not entirely true in my opinion. You have plenty of 3DS titles selling in small numbers, and developers happy with them. Niche games are not just Gust's & Compile Heart's, there are other developers that release niche games on other platforms as well, and this weekly chart show this properly.

Well, I don't think vinny's statement is always true it can certainly often be true, and his elaboration seems to imply it was less of a blanket statement than the original reading. You'd probably have to elaborate more on your specific examples, their genres, their demographic target, their pricing models, their degree of brand stickiness etc., to counteract his more extensive post.

Also, on a slight segway, listing PazuDora as GungHo having one of their biggest games on 3DS as counterpoint to transition to mobile seems kind of odd.

 

[monpiece]

I have done this comparison before but since I've almost fnished with my database I'll do a very detailed when I find time. There were weeks at PS2 prime it got 20-30 games in a single day. Today it needs months.

Having said all these I'm sure monpiece will post again these are incomplete data, we need more parameters and Yokai-Watch is responsible because it canibalized other titles' sales.

I will just say that you used PS2 era comparison to say YW didn't cannibalize sales from a comparison between 2013 and 2014.

 

[Road]

Fair enough, lol.

But I was thinking more along the lines of repeated successes and multiples of them, and not just the top spots which are limited in number. What does the world of mid-tier mobile games look like? The types of games that still retail for 3-4000Y on the 3DS and sell a few/a hundred thousand copies there as well. That's what I was more looking for an answer to, lol.

I do not think of mobile as some sort of future haven for game development, so mind that my opinion of it is terribly jaded.

Console gaming wasn't 30 years ago what it is today. It didn't start as the industry dominated by AAA games it is now. The consolidation happened gradually.

Give it time and mobile gaming may end up dominated by big budget games as well being brute-forced into the market with money. The movement towards that has already started, just check the advertising spending of the biggest mobile players. We have to wait to see where it'll end.

Regardless, I'm sure publishers' would rather the mobile market continued the way it is now -- cheap games returning hundreds of million -- instead of replicating the console market. If only they could find some correlation to success other than money spent.

what are people playing on their PS4?

http://www.jp.playstation.com/psn/store/ranking/#sectionA_Area

 

[Oregano]

Well, I don't think vinny's statement is always true it can certainly often be true, and his elaboration seems to imply it was less of a blanket statement than the original reading. You'd probably have to elaborate more on your specific examples, their genres, their demographic target, their pricing models, their degree of brand stickiness etc., to counteract his more extensive post.

Also, on a slight segway, listing PazuDora as GungHo having one of their biggest games on 3DS as counterpoint to transition to mobile seems kind of odd.

P&DZ was a drop in the bucket for them but it is somewhat notable that GungHo is one of the few publishers who could completely drop the traditional market and has chosen not to. Have they ever really outlined why?

 

[Nirolak]

I know I'm preaching to the choir but how many have actually tried?

I guess the crux of it is that the traditional market is dying because publishers are letting it.

I usually make this argument in Western sales threads, but third parties ultimately define the market, which is why they're so important.

Now, in the West it's largely the same third parties as always, but in Japan it's a mix of old and new third parties that drove the success of gaming on mobile.

I mean in the case of Apple and Google, if it wasn't for third parties deciding to aggressively chase mobile and coming up with game ideas that resonated with huge numbers of people, there wouldn't even be games on the system as neither company has first party development.

Similarly Sony wasn't the company that dug the Vita out of its hole, but the third parties who agreed to make games for the system.

While the platform itself certainly has an impact, as does the first party, I feel a very significant share of how the market is shaped is based on how the third parties decide to react to what's happening and invest their resources.

 

[Vena]

Console gaming wasn't 30 years ago what it is today. It didn't start as the industry dominated by AAA games it is now. The consolidation happened gradually.

Console gaming also crashed when the market went toxic, filled with derivatives and garbage output on the cheap. Mobile gaming is, at current, there exactly and that mind-set has been ingrained into the app/droid store.

This isn't even a problem limited to gaming. Derivative works are a plague on all apps, particularly in the droid scene where you can find ten+ rogue knock-offs for every one good app that costs money. And, the worst part of it all, is that the early years really conditioned consumers in the mobile sphere to expect free to extremely cheap.

I don't think console gaming ever had that last problem to crawl out of...

 

[Refreshment.01]

How many publishers are creating major new hits on 3DS though?

I'm not convinced that's actually anywhere near the number of new IPs we've seen succeed on mobile since 2012 alone.

We already see many publishers release their bigger safe games on the 3DS so it's not like they dumped that front.

You seem to fall into this logic quite frequently, someone mentions the 3DS having the larger user base and the type of support it gets and you procede the default argument "But on mobile..."

The thing is Nirolak, that is pretty clear that the person you are responding to referes to the "traditional" gaming market, the developers targetting dedicated handhelds and the reasons why their behaviorin Japan has been smart or not.

Btw, this is not a bashing post in anyway, just an observation.

 

[Busaiku]

Based on? Haven't seen any mainline Persona title on a Nintendo console yet.

Based on the likelihood that it is unlikely for Vita to have a successor, and the success of Atlus's games, including a Persona game, on Nintendo's platforms.
Given that Atlus hasn't even tried to establish themselves in the mobile market at this point, I can see them continuing on with traditional systems.

 

[Takao]

English translation of the top 20 best selling PSN games in 2014:

PlayStation 3:
1. Minecraft: PlayStation 3 Edition (Mojang)
2. How To Survive (Spike Chunsoft)
3. Resident Evil 5: Gold Edition (Capcom)
4. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes (Konami)
5. Resident Evil 4 (Capcom)
6. Terraria (Spike Chunsoft)
7. Destiny (Sony Computer Entertainment)
8. Mobile Suit Gundam: Extreme Vs. Full Boost (Bandai Namco)
9. Okami (Capcom)
10. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (Square Enix)
11. rain (Sony Computer Entertainment)
12. Super Robot Wars OG: Dark Prison (Bandai Namco)
13. Castlevania: Harmony of Despair (Konami)
14. Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch (Level-5)
15. Power Pros Baseball 2014 (Konami)
16. Samurai Warriors 4 (Koei Tecmo)
17. Ultra Street Fighter IV (Capcom)
18. Under Night In-Birth Exe: Late (Arc System Works)
19. Diablo III: Reaper of Souls Ultimate Evil Edition (Square Enix)
20. Grand Theft Auto V (Rockstar)

PlayStation 4:
1. Battlefield 4 (Electronic Arts)
2. FIFA 14 (Electronic Arts)
3. Call of Duty: Ghosts (Square Enix)
4. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes (Konami)
5. Destiny (Sony Computer Entertainment)
6. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (Square Enix)
7. Child of Light (Ubisoft)
8. The Last of Us Remastered (Sony Computer Entertainment)
9. Diablo III: Reaper of Souls Ultimate Evil Edition (Square Enix)
10. Trials Fusion (Ubisoft)
11. Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag (Ubisoft)
12. Dragon Age: Inquisition (Electronic Arts)
13. Dynasty Warriors 8: Xtreme Legends Complete Edition (Koei Tecmo)
14. Grand Theft Auto V (Rockstar)
15. Yakuza Ishin! (Sega)
16. Strider (Capcom)
17. Watch Dogs (Ubisoft)
18. Samurai Warriors 4 (Koei Tecmo)
19. inFamous: Second Son (Sony Computer Entertainment)
20. Don’t Starve: Console Edition (Klei)

PlayStation Vita:
1. Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition (Mojang)
2. Terraria (Spike Chunsoft)
3. Freedom Wars (Sony Computer Entertainment)
4. Senran Kagura: Bon Appetit! (Marvelous)
5. Muramasa Rebirth (Marvelous)
6. Sword Art Online: Hollow Fragment (Bandai Namco)
7. Soul Sacrifice Delta (Sony Computer Entertainment)
8. Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F2nd (Sega)
9. Oreshika: Tainted Bloodlines (Sony Computer Entertainment)
10. Persona 4 Golden (Atlus)
11. Super Robot Wars Z3: Time Prison Chapter (Bandai Namco)
12. DanganRonpa 1·2 Reload (Spike Chunsoft)
13. Disgaea 4: A Promise Revisited (Nippon Ichi Software)
14. The Legend of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki (Falcom)
15. Phantasy Star Nova (Sega)
16. Steins;Gate (5pb.)
17. Senran Kagura: Shinovi Versus (Marvelous)
18. Phantom Breaker: Battlegrounds (5pb.)
19. Toukiden Kiwami (Koei Tecmo)
20. God Eater 2 (Bandai Namco)

http://www.psnstores.com/2015/01/japans-most-downloaded-psn-releases-in-2014/

 

[shinra-bansho]

P&DZ was a drop in the bucket for them but it is somewhat notable that GungHo is one of the few publishers who could completely drop the traditional market and has chosen not to. Have they ever really outlined why?

I'm going to go with they hit it big and don't really know how what to do with their windfall to keep delivering the growth that's now expected, since that's the only way I can reconcile them buying flophouse Grasshopper and greenlighting the aptly named Let It Die.

 

[Oregano]

I usually make this argument in Western sales threads, but third parties ultimately define the market, which is why they're so important.

Now, in the West it's largely the same third parties as always, but in Japan it's a mix of old and new third parties that drove the success of gaming on mobile.

I mean in the case of Apple and Google, if it wasn't for third parties deciding to aggressively chase mobile and coming up with game ideas that resonated with huge numbers of people, there wouldn't even be games on the system as neither company has first party development.

Similarly Sony wasn't the company that dug the Vita out of its hole, but the third parties who agreed to make games for the system.

While the platform itself certainly has an impact, as does the first party, I feel a very significant share of how the market is shaped is based on how the third parties decide to react to what's happening and invest their resources.

That is very true. I guess Nintendo is very much the anomaly in the sense that they can (almost) drive a platform on the back of just their software.

What should be worrying to traditional third parties is that collectively they are only barely more influential than Nintendo. It would be fine if they had all managed to cememnt themselves in the mobile world but they largely haven't.

 

[Neuromancer]

Am I reading correctly that MS only sold 637 XBO1's that week?