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[Itsuki]

I still can't believe Ar Nosurge sales....

 

[Metallix87]

lol come on you guys are hilarious thinking there's a chance for wiiu to outsell the ps4 LT in Japan.

And you're hilarious thinking there's no chance that it will.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I was counting the best re-releases. I don't want to cause you another meltdown, but let's take a look at direct FF sequels as well as Gran Turismo, Sly Cooper, and Ratchet and Clank just for grins and giggles.

You have clearly lost track of the conversation. A poster said console gaming was dead and I disagreed saying that as long as these big franchises stay on consoles its far from dead.

Anyway the game you listed actually support my previous post in that install base does not lead or necessarily lessen sales. GT is not going to reach 1 million even if PS3 had sold 20 million. Same with RC which declined in the PS2 gen despite the install base increasing over time.

It looks like you don't even know what your arguing about and what I am arguing about.

At this point MH and DQ are the only really big Japanese 3rd party franchises on any platform, PS3/4/Vita included, but if you lower the bar into Yakuza/Tales/RE/etc territory then there's also been PDZ, Taiko, Yokai Watch, Disney Magic Castle, DQ Monsters, Run for Money, Ace Attorney, IE Go and a lot of other stuff.

Near million sellers are big. Only a handful of franchises reach near a million sales consistently.

FF is the biggest console franchise as of now. MGS gets close to 1 million as does RE if RE6 is evident. Tales and Yakuza can do up to 600k which is pretty big. There are not many 3DS third party franchises that do those numbers which do not have the name Dragon Quest/MH on them are there?

 

[BlackJace]

Nintendo fans getting the chance to mock Sony fans over waiting for that one game to change the tides. And only a few months/weeks/days ago it was the opposite.

Let's all just chill, yeah?

 

[HypocrisyGalore]

Btw looking at the comparison Chris posted pages ago it does seems likely that the PS4 might fall behind the PS3 launch-aligned sales within a couple weeks.



PS4 will need to avg 20K in the next 6 weeks in order to not fall behind the PS3 week 9.

Are we seriously expecting the PS4 to not average 20K?

lol

 

[Father_Brain]

and you think we already know majority of the upcoming releases? geez people..it has been three weeks! lol Like I said the proper results of devs/pubs transitioning won't likely be evident until well into next year..thanks to them still focusing on ps3.

I am not going to repeat that again

edit: saw your edit. What secret game? Are you actually joking around or something here? Do you think all the major third parties in Japan gonna abandon the ps4? I'm not expecting one game to turn fortunes around for a system...just that there will be a steady stream of releases for ps4 going forward and it will help sustain the sales. This will not happen properly until pubs/devs transition from ps3 which takes time.

I can't believe so many here are trying hard to equate the wiiu and ps4 situations lol

Three weeks? It's been a full six months since the first Japan-focused PS4 press event, a bit before TGS. How many Japanese-developed PS4 games have been announced since then?

There may be a steady stream of support eventually, but all indications right now are that it's not going to happen until 2015 at the earliest. For now, this looks like a bit of a Vita 2012-esque situation, insofar as that SCEJA presumably expected third parties to jump onto the PS4 bandwagon much more eagerly than they did.

 

[jeremy1456]

Some of you nintendo fans need to stop catching feels and face reality

WiiU is not an indication on ps4 will perform in Japan. The system is selling like a joke even in the west. Third parties have given up on it almost completely. The system had ton of nintendo heavy hitters, price cuts, bundles etc etc over the year+ time in the market and the sales have still sucked

I will say the same for ps4 if it's in the same boat with time. It's called being logical and using proper context. You should use it some time



Don't make me dig up that wiiu is destined to rule the JP market thread lol come on you guys are hilarious thinking there's a chance for wiiu to outsell the ps4 LT in Japan. You have already moved goal posts at least 3 times in this very thread. Still ain't happening unless wiiu turn things around in a big way

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings and made you resort to insults.

I was arguing logically. I expect a lot of japanese games to be either on ps3 or cross gen for the first few years until the user base grows enough to support releases better. I wasn't saying the third party support isn't coming later, but we just don't know at this point.

So please calm down.

 

[B.O.O.M]

The big difference is that Wii U seemingly had content on the horizon to appeal to Japan (Monster Hunter 3G, Dragon Quest X Online, The Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3), but those seemingly didn't help much at all. PS4, on the other hand, seems to have absolutely nothing for Japan lined up for this year, so that should tell you all that you need to know.

Did you just list W101? lol the game that sold what...5k FW?

And you're hilarious thinking there's no chance that it will.

why is it so hilarious? PS4 did outsell the wiiu in the west in about 3.5 months after all. Sony prioritized the west and the results show that. WiiU can't sustain sales over 10k despite tons of mario and other first party games (which is nintendo's bread and butter), price cut, bundles etc

seems pretty obvious to me

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings and made you resort to insults.

I was arguing logically. I expect a lot of japanese games to be either on ps3 or cross gen for the first few years until the user base grows enough to support releases better. I wasn't saying the third party support isn't coming later, but we just don't know at this point.

So please calm down.

Not at all..your snarky smartass comment didn't deserve a better response. And I'm perfectly calm...I don't really care much for these console war nonsense. I have criticized all three companies here on gaf. Not like I own stock in them

You are not arguing logically if you think the publishers won't transition to ps4 for first few years. I give it 2015 fall max. They won't have a choice unless they won't to abandon the home console market. No major third party is going to put their games all in one basket. And if they have the slightest intention of taking on the western markets PS4 and Xbone are the only choices. It's a rather simple really. Or are you actually implying there's a chance that third party support won't come later? lol

 

[Tripon]

Three weeks? It's been a full six months since the first Japan-focused PS4 press event, a bit before TGS. How many Japanese-developed PS4 games have been announced since then?

There may be a steady stream of support eventually, but all indications right now are that it's not going to happen until 2015 at the earliest. For now, this looks like a bit of a Vita 2012-esque situation, insofar as that SCEJA presumably expected third parties to jump onto the PS4 bandwagon much more eagerly than they did.

You know, this does make me wonder, SCEJA aren't making Vita games, they're not making PS3 games, and apparently they're not making PS4 games. What platform are they making games for?

Did you just list W101? lol the game that sold what...5k FW?



why is it so hilarious? PS4 did outsell the wiiu in the west in about 3.5 months after all. Sony prioritized the west and the results show that. WiiU can't sustain sales over 10k despite tons of mario and other first party games (which is nintendo's bread and butter), price cut, bundles etc

seems pretty obvious to me

If you wish a little bit harder, your dreams may come true.

 

[cafemomo]

And you're hilarious thinking there's no chance that it will.

If 1st party games aren't brining the WiiU forward, then what will?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Are there many differences between saying "the WiiU can't fail because it has Mario/DK/Zelda/Smash/Kart/Pikmin" and "the PS4 can't fail in Japan because it has FF/MGS/KH/Tales/DW/GT/RE"? Is the difference that those Nintendo games also have good versions on handhelds (sometimes) while mobile/handheld versions of the other titles are not as good? Or are there not many differences in the arguments?

 

[Principate]

You know, this does make me wonder, SCEJA aren't making Vita games, they're not making PS3 games, and apparently they're not making PS4 games. What platform are they making games for?



If you wish a little bit harder, your dreams may come true.

It's nothing. But really they are making games for the vita (Soul Gravity etc) it's just their output has been bad and I'm not sure it's ever really been great since the beginning of PS3.

 

[Metallix87]

Did you just list W101? lol the game that sold what...5k FW?

What does that have to do with my point, exactly? If anything, it proves my point.

why is it so hilarious? PS4 did outsell the wiiu in the west in about 3.5 months after all. Sony prioritized the west and the results show that. WiiU can't sustain sales over 10k despite tons of mario and other first party games (which is nintendo's bread and butter), price cut, bundles etc

seems pretty obvious to me

The West =/= The East

Just because PS4 is dominating in the West, doesn't mean that the same will hold true for Japan. See the Genesis and Xbox 360 for proof of that.

If 1st party games aren't brining the WiiU forward, then what will?

Honestly, I think it's a situation of time. Eventually, the library will be robust enough and the system sellers big enough that people will start buying up the system and games. I'm not sure how much it will sell, but I suspect the system's legs, and the legs of the games, will prove decent over time.

 

[Principate]

Are there many differences between saying "the WiiU can't fail because it has Mario/DK/Zelda/Smash/Kart/Pikmin" and "the PS4 can't fail in Japan because it has FF/MGS/KH/Tales/DW/GT/RE"? Is the difference that those Nintendo games also have good versions on handhelds (sometimes) while mobile/handheld versions of the other titles are not as good? Or are there not many differences in the arguments?

None at all Nintendo games had more selling power in the last gen in japan than any of those games, even in spite having handheld versions. The only thing that'll save the PS4 is mid tier, which is completely none existent for some reason when they were even porting shit to the Vita during it's worst year and had a lot announced.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Three weeks? It's been a full six months since the first Japan-focused PS4 press event, a bit before TGS. How many Japanese-developed PS4 games have been announced since then?

There may be a steady stream of support eventually, but all indications right now are that it's not going to happen until 2015 at the earliest. For now, this looks like a bit of a Vita 2012-esque situation, insofar as that SCEJA presumably expected third parties to jump onto the PS4 bandwagon much more eagerly than they did.

Do you have short term memory?

This is pretty much the PS3 situation ( in terms of release schedule) again.

Out of the notable PS3 holiday titles for its first year how many did we know by March?

Hot Shots Golf 5
DW Gundam
GT5P
WE 2008
Musou 5

You guys are acting extremely silly right now. You do not know the entire 2014 lineup let alone 2015 lineup.

 

[cafemomo]

Honestly, I think it's a situation of time. Eventually, the library will be robust enough and the system sellers big enough that people will start buying up the system and games. I'm not sure how much it will sell, but I suspect the system's legs, and the legs of the games, will prove decent over time.

Can't the same be said for the PS4 also? "Give it time, and then the system sellers from Square, Capcom and Konami will come forward and people will start buying PS4 en masse"

 

[Principate]

Do you have short term memory?

This is pretty much the PS3 situation ( in terms of release schedule) again.

Out of the notable PS3 holiday titles for its first year how many did we know by March?

Hot Shots Golf 5
DW Gundam
GT5P
WE 2008
Musou 5

You guys are acting extremely silly right now. You do not know the entire 2014 lineup let alone 2015 lineup.

PS3 had a lot of games actually released in meanwhile (comparatively lol).

 

[Busaiku]

FF is the biggest console franchise as of now. MGS gets close to 1 million as does RE if RE6 is evident. Tales and Yakuza can do up to 600k which is pretty big.

Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid are far from a million.

 

[Metallix87]

Can't the same be said for the PS4 also? "Give it time, and then the system sellers from Square, Capcom and Konami will come forward and people will start buying PS4 en masse"

The difference is, those system sellers are literally YEARS away, while Mario Kart 8 and Bayonetta 2 and Super Smash Bros. U are hitting this year.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

The difference is, those system sellers are literally YEARS away, while Mario Kart 8 and Bayonetta 2 and Super Smash Bros. U are hitting this year.

Is Bayonetta 2 really even a system seller?

 

[sörine]

Near million sellers are big. Only a handful of franchises reach near a million sales consistently.

FF is the biggest console franchise as of now. MGS gets close to 1 million as does RE if RE6 is evident. Tales and Yakuza can do up to 600k which is pretty big. There are not many 3DS third party franchises that do those numbers which do not have the name Dragon Quest/MH on them are there?

Uh, yes there are. In fact I just listed a bunch of them already for you.

 

[cafemomo]

The difference is, those system sellers are literally YEARS away, while Mario Kart 8 and Bayonetta 2 and Super Smash Bros. U are hitting this year.

The only real system seller from that is MK8.
Smash will do a small bump and will probably sell more on the 3DS.

and Bayo 2 is destined to flop.

 

[B.O.O.M]

What does that have to do with my point, exactly? If anything, it proves my point.



The West =/= The East

Just because PS4 is dominating in the West, doesn't mean that the same will hold true for Japan. See the Genesis and Xbox 360 for proof of that.

Honestly, I think it's a situation of time. Eventually, the library will be robust enough and the system sellers big enough that people will start buying up the system and games. I'm not sure how much it will sell, but I suspect the system's legs, and the legs of the games, will prove decent over time.

sigh it's like I'm talking to a wall here

First off, you listed W101 as a game that was on the horizon for the wiiu as proper JP support or something. That's a joke in itself. Outside of blind faith I have no idea why anyone would have been so optimistic about that game. Hope that clarifies things

I'm not saying west = East. I'm saying right now sony nor third parties are focusing on the JP home console market. With time it will change. And with that change, IF sales don't improve, then I will say ps4 is a failure too. I won't have a problem with it whatsoever. I love my vita...I think the sales suck WW. I have said so too. PS4 won't be any different.

and no I'm not going to compare genesis and xbox to playstation in Japan >_> PS4 will have to do many things wrong and will be a failure beyond belief if it's unable to even outsell the wiiu. I don't see any logical reason to think that might happen yet

edit: just saw your mention Bayo 2 as a system seller for wiiu above smh

 

[Chris1964]

Is Bayonetta 2 really even a system seller?

Bayonetta 2 must be a seller first.

 

[Steel]

You know, this does make me wonder, SCEJA aren't making Vita games, they're not making PS3 games, and apparently they're not making PS4 games. What platform are they making games for?

Actually, SCEJA is making vita games. Gravity Rush 2, and Oreshika 2 are notable here. Though there have been rumors they are making a rpg to rival final fantasy, and there's always the Last Guardian Teasing(

Spoiler

heh

).

Are there many differences between saying "the WiiU can't fail because it has Mario/DK/Zelda/Smash/Kart/Pikmin" and "the PS4 can't fail in Japan because it has FF/MGS/KH/Tales/DW/GT/RE"? Is the difference that those Nintendo games also have good versions on handhelds (sometimes) while mobile/handheld versions of the other titles are not as good? Or are there not many differences in the arguments?

The arguments are the same, the timeline is different. Wii U already has Mario/DK/Zelda/Pikmin, and that didn't change its sales potential anywhere in the world. We have yet to see what effect the games listed for its side would have on PS4.

 

[Principate]

Is Bayonetta 2 really even a system seller?

Not really but it's reasonable budget exclusive and it's predecessor pretty well.... in Japan (and by that I mean ok, all things considered, considering it was a new IP)

 

[B.O.O.M]

The arguments are the same, the timeline is different. Wii U already has Mario/DK/Zelda/Pikmin, and that didn't change its sales potential anywhere in the world. We have yet to see what effect the games listed for its side would have on PS4.

Bingo!

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Not really but it's reasonable budget exclusive and it's predecessor pretty well.... in Japan (and by that I mean ok, all things considered, considering it was a new IP)

Meh. Mario Kart is a multi-million selling series in Japan. Smash is a really big series too. But Bayonetta 2? It's a sequel to a niche PS3/360 game that didn't even sell that well in the first place.

 

[Tripon]

Bayonetta 2 must be a seller first.

It'll probably sell more than X.

And well, X isn't going to sell.

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

Is Bayonetta 2 really even a system seller?

What about Final Fantasy?

Prediction

FFXV FW 300k

MK8>SSB4>FFXV>KH3

 

[theprodigy]

Bayonetta 2 must be a seller first.

best response

also this thread has already passed last week's thread in total posts, hasn't it

 

[maxcriden]

It'll probably sell more than X.

And well, X isn't going to sell.

I expect them to sell comparably poorly, if DK is any indication.

 

[Principate]

Meh. Mario Kart is a multi-million selling series in Japan. Smash is a really big series too. But Bayonetta 2? It's a sequel to a niche PS3/360 game that didn't even sell that well in the first place.

System seller no, but I was referring more to the fact it's a worthwhile exclusive and even that, the PS4 lacks in Japan.

 

[Chris1964]

I will say the same for ps4 if it's in the same boat with time. It's called being logical and using proper context.

Let's assume PS4 gets all the heavy hitters everyone expects to get.

How much do you think it will sell in Japan?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

XV will release anywhere from early to late 2015 and will most definitely launch alongside a PS4 price cut and special bundle.

it will be doom and gloom til then.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

PS3 had a lot of games actually released in meanwhile (comparatively lol).

A lot of Western games (lol)

Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid are far from a million.

MGS4 - 896k
RE6 - 821k

Yeah no. Thats not far.

Uh, yes there are. In fact I just listed a bunch of them already for you.

Unless I'm missing something, there aren't many (500k-600k)

 

[Takao]

What about Final Fantasy?

Prediction

FFXV FW 300k

MK8>SSB4>FFXV>KH3

did you miss a number or something

 

[test_account]

Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid are far from a million.

Its all relative, but i wouldnt say that they are exactly far from a million. Metal Gear Solid 4 sold about 900k i Japan alone with a best/re-release. Resident Evil 5 sold over a million copies with several of re-releases and Resident Evil 6 sold about 860k.

EDIT: The numbers for Resident Evil 5 and 6 includes the Xbox 360 version. Its slightly less if the arguement was about PS3 only.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Let's assume PS4 gets all the heavy hitters everyone expects to get.

How much do you think it will sell in Japan?

Not sure about an exact number to be perfectly honest. But it's not going to sell less than wiiU, which was the main argument I'm making.

ps: To clarify I don't think it will sell amazingly well, Especially not in the next or so before the games start appearing frequently.

 

[Busaiku]

MGS4 - 896k
RE6 - 821k

Yeah no. Thats not far.

Forgot about the budget release for Metal Gear Solid 4.
Still, 200k is definitely far, just look at all those titles that did 800k on PS3, but only 1 million seller.

 

[Tripon]

I expect them to sell comparably poorly, if DK is any indication.

I'm expecting 100-150K LTD. The one thing both games have going for them is that they're both in genres not overrepresented on the Wii U, unlike Donkey Kong which got platformer after platformer to play on.

 

[sörine]

Unless I'm missing something, there aren't many (500k-600k)

Most of the series I listed sold that or more on 3DS. The only ones that didn't were AA and Inazuma Go, and this still did in the 400ks.

 

[test_account]

There isnt a best/re-release of RE6 as far as i know.

RE6 - 821k

Yeah no. Thats not far.

That is for the PS3 version only. The Xbox 360 version sold about 38k as well.

EDIT: I guess that the arguement was about PS3 only, my bad

 

[Replicant]

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings and made you resort to insults.

LOL. Which part of his post is an insult? An insult would be if he had name-calling you. Or that Wii U is destined to be a failure is what you considered an insult? That's not an insult. It's a reality. Even IF it manages to find an audience in Japan, it's already dead everywhere else. The momentum is not there anymore and stores are trying to get rid off whatever stock they have left.

The amount of gamers in Japan are not gonna be enough to sustain the console. Moreover, Japanese gamers are the kind who tend to buy a console and sell it immediately after playing the game that they want. What makes you think they won't sell Wii U in haste post playing whatever Nintendo exclusive it will release in the future? After all, no one likes to get stuck with a console that is considered DOA in most part of the world baring the most loyal Nintendo fans.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Most of the series I listed sold that or more on 3DS. The only ones that didn't were AA and Inazuma Go, and this still did in the 400ks.

yes and thats not many. What is like 4 franchises?

 

[Chris1964]

Not sure about an exact number to be perfectly honest. But it's not going to sell less than wiiU, which was the main argument I'm making.

ps: To clarify I don't think it will sell amazingly well, Especially not in the next or so before the games start appearing frequently.

Wii U is heading for GC hw numbers. PS4 beating it isn't an achievement.

The only logical target I can see it matching is PS3. it won't be the second coming of Christ some were expecting.

 

[theprodigy]

Wii U is heading for GC hw numbers.

you're rather optimistic, aren't you

 

[TheChaos0]

I don't think FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns are the best sales indicators. Final Fantasy X was pretty much Japan's favorite Final Fantasy Title of all time. Final Fantasy XIII had a pretty poor reception. Makes sense that more people wanted a follow up to X than XIII. Do you really expect Final Fantasy XV to sell 500k LTD because Lightning Returns couldn't manage that number?

Ratchet and Clank suffered the same cross generation fate as Professor Layton or Crash Bandicoot

I think looking at sales of FF sequels is a poor way to gauge the sales of mainline entries. I think FF can only keep selling well, if it remains fresh. That's why I'm not so excited at the prospect of turning FFVX into a trilogy. Even if you develop FFXVI and FFXV side by side, I think it still will dilute the brand into irrelevance.

Okay 'secret PS4 game' is going to save the system. I'm glad that problem is solved.

He's just saying that PS4 is destined to outsell Wii U in Japan because stuff.

What he's saying is simply that, if you look at Wii U and you look at it's Japanese and Western receptions/sales, you'll see that it was just never a desirable platform for developers to develop on. Whereas PS4, so far, is lighting up the charts in the West and you have developers dropping last gen a lot faster than one would expect (Arkham Knight).

With this in mind, sure you could say but West bears little relevance to Japanese sales. Sure but if you think about prospects, PS4 is a lot more attractive to develop on because you can tap into that Western market a lot better than you can with Wii U. If you think that plays no part in decided where to develop on, then I'm no sure what to say.

The only way I can see Wii U ever out doing PS4s life time LTD, is if all the major players in Japan exit console business entirely. I don't see that happening, because I can't see mobile as a sustainable market, you are guaranteed nothing over there. A game like Flappy Bird can appear in a blink of an eye but for every Flappy Bird and Candy Crush, there are thousands upon thousand "failures" that never get anywhere. At best you can try to follow the trends and try to gauge what's hot and what's cold and how long it will be hot for. And at some point, I hope, people will realise just what IAP is doing to their entertainment. (of course people still flock to casinos so my point is rather moot )

Nothing is going to save PS4, there's not one game that can keep sales rolling. It's all about ecosystem, which currently is pretty bad for a Japanese player. The challenge for Sony is to nurture it and to make sure that, lack of moment does not stagnate the interest from the Japanese developers. This year is going to be pretty brutal, summer is going to be dead but it was almost clear as sky on a cloudless day that this what would happen. The most interesting thing about the lauch was, how much would the system sell in the first week and how long will the sheer hype of promised maybe-games keep the sales from declining into Wii U like coma.

It's completely another question whether, or even, how well it can recover once Japanese developers start releasing (and when) games, even if they cross gen for the time being, on PS4.

In hindsight, I think Wii U made the console market in Japan, slightly toxic. I think when they saw just how badly it was doing (both in home county and worldwide), it affected the plans to start developing on the other next gen consoles based on that. I'm pretty much everyone is surprised at how well PS4 is going worldwide. Question is - is it enough?

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

did you miss a number or something

2015 Final Fantasy is 2015 Final Fantasy

 

[Wynnebeck]

Hey Nerds. Wii U is selling like shit. PS4 is looking to end up the same. Shut the hell up and accept that the console industry is in a massive decline in Japan with handhelds behind them. Got fanboys in here waving dicks in a micro-penis contest.

With that being said, Wii U has a chance to pull itself out of the at least for a little while with MK8 and Smash U while ony hasn't spoke much about Japanese games in development. This is concerning to me.