Psycho_Mantis
Banned
PvP in FFXV confirmed
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Media Create Sales: Week 24, 2014 (Jun 09 - Jun 15)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
PvP in FFXV confirmed
Ouch, looks like Thief is bombed. I figured it wouldn't sell great, but the advertisements here always caught my attention.
Not sure why you expected otherwise.
You put series in quotation marks, why? You just summarized a part of the interview and confirmed that they plan to use online to make it work as a series (by keeping up interest in the game inbetween releases), why pretend it isn't a series rather than a single release?The context of what he's saying there is completely wrong. He's not talking about online features to -deliver- the rest of the "series", but rather that they are planning online features to extend the life of a game while people wait between sequels.
He makes it pretty clear in the next question about online features, where he laments that big titles take a long time to make, but players tend to finish them off in a short period of time. Online features can help extend this play time, so while waiting for the story to continue, players still have something to stay excited about. This is what they're exploring with regards to online functionality.
Also I think it contradicts what you said earlier:
Again, you put quotation marks to discredit something Nomura explicitly stated. He basically announced the series character, if they end up stopping at the one release it'd be like canceling something Nomura already told Famitsu about.FFXV is not going to be an "episodic" game. Let's not be silly. If it's successful to begin with they're going to try and release more games with the same engine and assets within 1-2 years each, similar to games like CoD and Assassin's Creed. But that's not "episodic" at all.
What you're describing is FFXIII's approach to sequels, where they didn't tell players beforehand. But Nomura made his intention clear. The original release will end with a climax but the story will continue. There is no reason to believe that they will change cast or even make you start again at level 1 either.
As a reason why they'd turn it into a series he said, the other choice would have been to lower the volume and density of content (presumably to get it out earlier), which they wanted to avoid. He also didn't disclose what mode of release they would utilize, saying they'll announce it at a later time.
And again, the way DQX version 2 delivers its content would fit what Nomura is describing. At least it should be an example to look at for what works and what doesn't (they can see how much time the players spend with leveling, fighting strong bosses, coliseum battles, manufacturing jobs, fishing, daily tasks, lottery, etc.).
And if you make the time between releases too long, even the most interesting online functionality will not be able to keep players' interest. Especially if were looking at 1-2 years inbetween releases.
Hey does anyone think the Wii U has a chance at outselling the Xbox 1 worldwide if they keep up with releasing decent first party games and the Xbox 1 still struggles in Europe?
Not even.
All the Smash and MK8s in the world won't help the WiiU to outsell the xbox.
Especially with that Halo Collection coming.
pieatorium
Member
Hey does anyone think the Wii U has a chance at outselling the Xbox 1 worldwide if they keep up with releasing decent first party games and the Xbox 1 still struggles in Europe?
xbox 1 will probably sell more in the US than Wiiu will sell worldwide.
It will depend on how the Halo collection performs. Wii U may have a chance this year, absolutely. In the long run I believe both will sell about the same, with PS4 far ahead, like it used to be during the PS2 era.Hey does anyone think the Wii U has a chance at outselling the Xbox 1 worldwide if they keep up with releasing decent first party games and the Xbox 1 still struggles in Europe?
xbox 1 will probably sell more in the US than Wiiu will sell worldwide.
I don't think it will be that bad..
I don't think it will be that bad..
Unfortunately people will buy an Xbone for various reasons. Why would someone buy a WiiU? Mario Kart? Already released. Super Mario 3D game? Already released. Super Mario 2D game? Already released. Now if Nintendo would release a good WiiU Pokemon game...
pieatorium
Member
I don't think it will be that bad..
PS3 sold 25 mill in the US, Xbox one should at least get close to that if not higher. WiiU worldwide wont get over 20mill.
PS3 sold 25 mill in the US, Xbox one should at least get close to that if not higher. WiiU worldwide wont get over 20mill.
Only if Nintendo dumps the Wii U early..
pieatorium
Member
um no its tracking well behind the gamecube which barely passed 20 mill...Only if Nintendo dumps the Wii U early..
...
Aquamarine
Member
um no its tracking well behind the gamecube which barely passed 20 mill...
...
I did a comparison a little while ago:
Because of sales trajectory.
GameCube, Worldwide Shipments as of September 30th, 2001 (Japan only):
.51 million hardware, .71 million software
GameCube, Worldwide Shipments as of March 31st, 2002 (end of 1st fiscal year):
3.80 million hardware, 14.37 million software
GameCube, Worldwide Shipments as of September 30th, 2002:
6.68 million hardware, 34.58 million software
GameCube, Worldwide Shipments as of March 31st, 2003 (end of 2nd fiscal year):
9.55 million hardware, 60.51 million software
Wii U, Worldwide Shipments as of December 31st, 2012:
3.06 million hardware, 11.69 million software
Wii U, Worldwide Shipments as of March 31st, 2013 (end of 1st fiscal year):
3.45 million hardware, 13.42 million software
Wii U, Worldwide Shipments as of June 30th, 2013:
3.61 million hardware, 14.44 million software
Wii U, Worldwide Shipments as of September 30th, 2013:
3.91 million hardware, 19.71 million software
Wii U, Worldwide Shipments as of December 31st, 2013:
5.86 million hardware, 29.37 million software
Wii U, Worldwide Shipments as of March 31st, 2014 (end of 2nd fiscal year):
6.17 million hardware, 32.28 million software
The Wii U is significantly lagging behind GameCube in terms of both hardware and full-priced software adoption.
xbox 1 will probably sell more in the US than Wiiu will sell worldwide.
Too early to tell that, but if Xbox One worldwide sales is having a problem catching up to Wii U's worldwide sales up to now...that idea is too farfetched.
MasterSheen
Member
Yep. Even with PS4, US is still the strongest territory for Xbox. A 50% drop from 360 still puts at 20m.PS3 sold 25 mill in the US, Xbox one should at least get close to that if not higher. WiiU worldwide wont get over 20mill.
Only if Nintendo dumps the Wii U early..
It's tracking below Gamecube just about everywhere, which LTD sits at 21m. Wii U will probably end around 15m or less.
um no its tracking well behind the gamecube which barely passed 20 mill...
...
First of all I think it will pick up.. And even then.. What makes you think the Xbox is going to be a lock for 60-100 million itself? In fact with the console market in Japan, what makes you think even the PS4 will sell that much? I honestly don't think sales will be that groundbreaking for any of the 3 consoles..
I think it could pick up.. Gamecube had much better software than the Wii U has ever had and it doesn't have a ps2 train in its way either.. And even if it doesn't I don't think the other two will outsell it 5 times as much either..It's tracking below Gamecube just about everywhere, which LTD sits at 21m. Wii U will probably end around 15m or less.
pieatorium
Member
Too early to tell that, but if Xbox One worldwide sales is having a problem catching up to Wii U's worldwide sales up to now...that idea is too farfetched.
its not though, xboxone was 1 million ahead for shipped vs shipped after 5 months iirc
And_Gignac
Member
um no its tracking well behind the gamecube which barely passed 20 mill...
...
So is the x1 in the US, I think (maybe no LTD but at least in comparable months). It is already below 80k/a month in the US. Considering Japan is a dead market for the X1, I don't see the "Wii U>X1" scenario as far fetched as you are implying it to be.
shinra-bansho
Member
The PS3 managed to sell 24M units in the US alone last generation, to the 360's 41M or so. This was at a higher average price than I expect whatever the final tally for the XBO will be sold at. And as the generation goes on, I expect the XBO and PS4 to be closer than people are anticipating.I don't think it will be that bad..
The XBO could sell quite a bit worse than that and still exceed the Wii U globally.
EDIT: Oh, already explained.
So is the x1. It is already below 100k/a month in the US. Considering Japan is a dead market for the X1, I don't see the "Wii U>X1" scenario as far fetched as you are implying it to be.
Exactly and I don't think it's too far-fetched to start seeing the PS4 have mediocre sales worldwide either.. In fact they aren't that great tbh going by recent NPD..
pieatorium
Member
First of all I think it will pick up.. And even then.. What makes you think the Xbox is going to be a lock for 60-100 million itself? In fact with the console market in Japan, what makes you think even the PS4 will sell that much? I honestly don't think sales will be that groundbreaking for any of the 3 consoles
It doesn't need to just pick up... it needs to outpace the gamecube for the rest of its life by over a million units a year... It's not going to happen...
I never said 60-100 million.. i said 25 million...
As for Japan... PS3 only made up 10million of its 80mill total... PS4 can sell less than 5 mill there and PS4 will still do better than PS3...
Didn't we already know that XV will have sequels similar to XIII?
The interview is from last year, when the reannounce as FFXV happened. The point to note is that we don't know what kind of release mode it will take, as he said that would be announced later.
He could have said there will be sequels like the ones for FFXIII but he didn't. He is already breaking the FFXIII m.o. though by making it clear that the story will not be over with the original release.
I never said 60-100 million.. i said 25 million...
As for Japan... PS3 only made up 10million of its 80mill total... PS4 can sell less than 5 mill there and PS4 will still do better than PS3...
Look at the latest NPD, the sales were bad all around. And you stating 25 million in the US alone means it will sell about 60 million+ World Wide.. I honestly think all three consoles could struggle..
pieatorium
Member
So is the x1 in the US, I think (maybe no LTD but at least in comparable months). It is already below 80k/a month in the US. Considering Japan is a dead market for the X1, I don't see the "Wii U>X1" scenario as far fetched as you are implying it to be.
its below this one month, which is the first and only month it has been behind iirc. It is tracking well ahead of the gamecube.
Exactly and I don't think it's too far-fetched to start seeing the PS4 have mediocre sales worldwide either.. In fact they aren't that great tbh going by recent NPD..
except hes wrong
shinra-bansho
Member
What?Look at the latest NPD, the sales were bad all around. And you stating 25 million in the US alone means it will sell about 60 million+ World Wide.. I honestly think all three consoles could struggle..
25M in the US means 25M in the US. You can't just blanket extrapolate that.
Microsoft could see their gen/gen hardware sales decrease by more than half in the US alone, and sell zero hardware anywhere else, and it would still be hard for the Wii U to match that eventual lifetime number.
They won't sell zero hardware everywhere else, they'll sell several million at least, in the UK they could eventually match the PS3's 5M number for example.
except hes wrong
So it's a complete lock that the X1 will outsell the Wii U worldwide in just 1 territory?
I understand the Wii U sales have been fecal for the first two years, but I really think if they get the right software out sales could pick up.. SO far it's been a bust but I think it will do much better.. But I also think there is a chance the PS4 and X1 could also take a nosedive as well..Microsoft could see their gen/gen hardware sales decrease by more than half in the US alone, and sell zero hardware anywhere else, and it would still be hard for the Wii U to match that eventual lifetime number.
pieatorium
Member
So it's a complete lock that the X1 will outsell the Wii U worldwide in just 1 territory?
hes wrong about xbox one tracking behind gamecube in the US
Look at the latest NPD, the sales were bad all around. And you stating 25 million in the US alone means it will sell about 60 million+ World Wide.. I honestly think all three consoles could struggle..
??????? Nothing about the xbox1 seling 25 million in the US would have anyone who has any clue about console hardware sales to expect 60 million worldwide. The 360 with all its advantages only managed 40 mill outside the US, less than 50% of its worldwide sales.
hes wrong about xbox one tracking behind gamecube in the US
No argument here.. I agree.. My point is I think all 3 console could struggle..
Edit: I think Wii U could recover a bit and track better than what it has the first 2 years while the other 2 could struggle.. If that makes any sense..
??????? Nothing about the xbox1 seling 25 million in the US would have anyone who has any clue about console hardware sales to expect 60 million worldwide. The 360 with all its advantages only managed 40 mill outside the US, less than 50% of its worldwide sales.
If it sells 25 Million or better in the US alone, I'm under the assumption that in all other territories(not just EU and JP as there are others) that it would sell atleast 60 Million overall.. The PS3 has 80 million WW and as sells better in other territories, so I think it would be fair to assume you subtract 20 million from the X1's total..
pieatorium
Member
, so I think it would be fair to assume you subtract 20 million from the X1's total..
like i already said thats a terrible assumption...................................................................
like i already said thats a terrible assumption...................................................................
Why, you stated 25+ million.. It's just an assumption.. 25 Million would mean 35 Million in others, I don't see why it would not pull that off.. And you said atleast 25 million correct? So if it sold 30 or 35 million that would not be totally off.. And this is just in the US alone? So you are not even counting Canada, South America or Mexico?
pieatorium
Member
Why, you stated 25+ million.. It's just an assumption.. 25 Million would mean 35 Million in others, I don't see why it would not pull that off.. And you said atleast 25 million correct? So if it sold 30 or 35 million that would not be totally off.. And this is just in the US alone? So you are not even counting Canada, South America or Mexico?
I already explained why. .................
25 million US wouldn't mean 35 million in others..............
The reasons it wouldn't pull that off is that MS has less mind share as a game company outside the US... Its best console still sold less than 50% of its total outside the US... and the xbox1 is selling alot less than a 50% share outside the US...
no i didn't say at least 25 million, i said at least close to that. If you wanted to talk about the xbox1 selling 35 million in the US you should have been more clear
My original point still stands.. I think the Wii U could pick up and I think the others could struggle.. Atleast that is what I'm seeing from NPD lately.. I think the Wii U has picked up some from MK8 and could be on a little rebound.. People who say it will track less than the GameCube are right, but I feel as though the Wii U has a better chance at tracking better because there is no PS2 juggernaut to deal with..
I could be 100% wrong and the X1 and PS4 could destroy the Wii U into oblivion as well.. We shall see.
I could be 100% wrong and the X1 and PS4 could destroy the Wii U into oblivion as well.. We shall see.
pieatorium
Member
My original point still stands.. I think the Wii U could pick up and I think the others could struggle.. Atleast that is what I'm seeing from NPD lately.. I think the Wii U has picked up some from MK8 and could be on a little rebound.. People who say it will track less than the GameCube are right, but I feel as though the Wii U has a better chance at tracking better because there is no PS2 juggernaut to deal with..
it could pick up but even if it does it wont outsell the gamecube, it would have to not only match gamecube sales from here on out but outsell it by 1million units per year for the rest of its life.
I could be 100% wrong and the X1 and PS4 could destroy the Wii U into oblivion as well.. We shall see.
PS4 will for sure, its on pace to be somewhere in the 15million sold range by the end of this year(assuming a good holiday), a figure that the wiiu might end up at if it doesn't rebound.
Xbox1 will outsell the wiiu, Destroy is a different question and depends on your definition of destroy.
its not though, xboxone was 1 million ahead for shipped vs shipped after 5 months iirc
I don't think that is right. The last shipped number for X1 was over 5 million in April, Wii U already was at 5.87 million shipped in December.
The thing is you are going by 2 years of data.. Still have a long ways to go unless the Wii U is dumped which is certainly possible.. If they don't start releasing games quickly then I will agree with you 100%..it could pick up but even if it does it wont outsell the gamecube, it would have to not only match gamecube sales from here on out but outsell it by 1million units per year for the rest of its life.
pieatorium
Member
I don't think that is right. The last shipped number for X1 was over 5 million in April, Wii U already was at 5.87 million shipped in December.
your comparing 14 months vs 5, wiiu was at 4 mill after 5 months Xbox1 5 million.
your comparing 14 months vs 5, wiiu was at 4 mill after 5 months Xbox1 5 million.
I know, but that wasn't the point. You replied to a post speaking of the current shipments.
And although both the X1 and Wii U sales should pick up (cheaper SKU and MK/better release schedule), further sales will accumulate upon the current sales level.
Edit: So if for example, they'd sell head to head from now on, the Wii U would stay ahead.
Of course the Wii U is in an even better position versus PS4 in Japan, leading both launch aligned and LTD.
pieatorium
Member
I know, but that wasn't the point. You replied to a post speaking of the current shipments.
no i didn't sorry if it was unclear but tracking means in relation to. Xbox1 sales are tracking ahead launch aligned with the WiiU
You put series in quotation marks, why? You just summarized a part of the interview and confirmed that they plan to use online to make it work as a series (by keeping up interest in the game inbetween releases), why pretend it isn't a series rather than a single release?
I put series in quotation marks to put emphasis on it being the subject being talked about. I'm not discrediting anything or pretending anything. I'm saying exactly what you just went on to describe. He is talking about FFXV as a "series" within FF as a series. Maybe you wouldn't be so confused if you actually read what I say instead of trying to read into what I'm not saying?
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Basically it's still likely too early to tell much w/ the PS4 & XB1. The Wii U has more data, but we'll see. For example, didn't the N64 outsell the PS1 in the US for most of the first year, and then the PS1 took over fairly easily thanks to N64 game droughts among other things? With the Wii U honestly I feel like it's finally getting enough of a decent backlog (3D World & MK8 at least) and is finally starting to get some semblance of a 1st party lineup this holiday season.
I put series in quotation marks to put emphasis on it being the subject being talked about. I'm not discrediting anything or pretending anything. I'm saying exactly what you just went on to describe. He is talking about FFXV as a "series" within FF as a series. Maybe you wouldn't be so confused if you actually read what I say instead of trying to read into what I'm not saying?
Do you still maintain that there definitely will be no episodic release mode and that any further releases of FFXV will depend on the game being successful despite Nomura saying that to not sacrifice volume and density they decided to split up the story and that the original release will only contain part of the story up to a climax? Which btw is also different from FFXIII, which was self contained and didn't necessitate a sequel.
You conveniently did not respond to that part of my comment where I confronted your statement with facts from the interview.
Edit:
He said there are several possible applications but doesn't mention any concrete ones he will use. Only the reason why they're using them, to keep players' interest.Okay so my google translate impression of what was there wasn't insane.
He's talking about multiplayer like how people play CoD until the next CoD comes out, and perhaps some DLC to extend the life of the multiplayer as well.
Now, there are social mobile games that do "story" updates every so often, but they're never ending products and also don't charge for those updates. FFXV also isn't an f2p service game (well, at least I assume as much) so that model doesn't really work here.
Also, f2p gameplay is already established on consoles since the late PS360 and will become even more important on PS4. Even DQX takes inspiration from f2p models. You shouldn't rule anything out prematurely, especially since he isn't disclosing the model yet.
I'm not saying it will be f2p but that they might use elements from f2p games to keep players' interest, like they're already doing with DQX.
Do you still maintain that there definitely will be no episodic release mode and that any further releases of FFXV will depend on the game being successful despite Nomura saying that to not sacrifice volume and density they decided to split up the story and that the original release will only contain part of the story up to a climax? Which btw is also different from FFXIII, which was self contained and didn't necessitate a sequel.
You conveniently did not respond to that part of my comment where I confronted your statement with facts from the interview.
There is no episodic release model with Final Fantasy XV. It is a complete game which will have room for sequels to continue the story. If the game is unsuccessful then players will just never get the end of the story. That's how business works. Episodic games are those which are announced with a fixed number of titles and marketed as a series to begin with, like the .hack games, El Dorado Gate, and Telltale games. That's the business model referred to when talking about "episodic" games.
I'm not sure what you're even arguing with here, since my stand is that FFXV is being developed as a possible springboard for a sub FF "series" from day 1. If it's successful I definitely expect sequels continuing that style of gameplay and expanding the world. What I was arguing against is that it is currently all planned out as digital expansions in episodic form. That's not what's happening.
I only corrected what you were saying because the interview you quoted does not talk about online functions being used to deliver the "series", but instead to keep players engaged with game while waiting for future entries in it. I would appreciate if you didn't take on this aggressive tone where you argue against things I never implied or suggested.
One part of the requirement you describe here is already out on the table. If they actually decide to release it as a series, Nomura practically announced it in the interview. And he said that they will announce the form the release will take, so if it becomes a series they will be clear about it, Nomura already said as much.There is no episodic release model with Final Fantasy XV. It is a complete game which will have room for sequels to continue the story. If the game is unsuccessful then players will just never get the end of the story. That's how business works. Episodic games are those which are announced with a fixed number of titles and marketed as a series to begin with, like the .hack games, El Dorado Gate, and Telltale games. That's the business model referred to when talking about "episodic" games.
And if announcing the number of installments upfront is completing the requirement, it could easily happen. Maybe they will do something like Xenosaga.
Since he just said he would announce the form the releases would take at a later point in time he couldn't possibly disclose it in the next sentence. You're right, he definitely didn't announce digital delivery. I thought he was cornered into alluding to this but there is no proof for that.I only corrected what you were saying because the interview you quoted does not talk about online functions being used to deliver the "series", but instead to keep players engaged with game while waiting for future entries in it.
He had to choose his words carefully and wasn't very in depth about the online aspects either, just about the intention. Point taken.
In the same way, according to Nomura turning FFXV into a series is considered as to not sacrifice volume and the detail with which they're producing the game. I think both getting the game out faster and keeping players hooked after release are what Nomura is trying to achieve.
I would appreciate if you didn't take on this aggressive tone where you argue against things I never implied or suggested.
At the risk of sounding aggressive again (more like frustrated that you gloss over valid points I make), that simply isn't true. You could argue that in certain instances I didn't do a good job of making an argument, but most of what I wrote is arguing against your statement that it will by no means be an episodic release model.
It could be all sorts of things, models that have been used before or something new. Given the goals and the way he describes it, episodic release should at least be a possibility.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Hey does anyone think the Wii U has a chance at outselling the Xbox 1 worldwide if they keep up with releasing decent first party games and the Xbox 1 still struggles in Europe?
0
WiiU is on track of a LTD below 20 million, could be something even as low as 15 million.
XB1 will do that in US and UK alone.
At the risk of sounding aggressive again (more like frustrated that you gloss over valid points I make), that simply isn't true. You could argue that in certain instances I didn't do a good job of making an argument, but most of what I wrote is arguing against your statement that it will by no means be an episodic release model.
It could be all sorts of things, models that have been used before or something new. Given the goals and the way he describes it, episodic release should at least be a possibility.
I think we just have a fundamental disagreement on what episodic means. Xenosaga is not an episodic business model either. It was just a series of games continuing a story. If you think that FFXV could get more games in the series, then I absolutely agree and there's nothing further to discuss. I am shooting down the idea that FFXV will released like .hack, El Dorado Gate, and Telltale games, which is how episodic business models are generally defined, that's all.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not entirely sure what's being argued.
If the implication is that FFXV is going to be split into parts and released in a bimonthly fashion, where each part simply contributes to a single story, rather than presents a self-contained complete story... i.e. episodic releases... then sorry, that's outlandish.
I'm sure FFXV could see sequels, it could see self-contained story DLC, it could even have multiplayer. If it's fantastically successful, maybe we'll get annualised FFXV. But it's still going to be a $60 single player game.
If the implication is that FFXV is going to be split into parts and released in a bimonthly fashion, where each part simply contributes to a single story, rather than presents a self-contained complete story... i.e. episodic releases... then sorry, that's outlandish.
I'm sure FFXV could see sequels, it could see self-contained story DLC, it could even have multiplayer. If it's fantastically successful, maybe we'll get annualised FFXV. But it's still going to be a $60 single player game.