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[Oregano]

I don't understand what this has to do with what you said though (that Explorers did well)? I never said WoFF did well either.

You said WoFF probably wouldn't do better on 3DS considering how FFEX did but FFEX did double what WoFF did.

 

[fortunato]

I don't understand what this has to do with what you said though (that Explorers did well)? I never said WoFF did well either.

Your premise is broken, though.

I said World of FF could have made more sense on a Nintendo platforms because of its design and genre. You replied that it didn't make sense because two unrelated Square Enix 3DS games (one of them in another franchise), targeted to different audiences and with different production values, sort of underperformed. I mean, World of FF would wish to see KH3D numbers at this point, lol

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I wish WoFF did better, its a really good game. I guess the fanbase was turned off by the visuals....even though it looks amazing! 😡

 

[Laplasakos]

You said WoFF probably wouldn't do better on 3DS considering how FFEX did but FFEX did double what WoFF did.

This doesn't mean that FFE did well either, just because it managed to sell more than WoFF. Of course it would have sell more. It was released on a more popular platform, more popular gerne, better timing etc. I already explained the reasons.

Your premise is broken, though.

I said World of FF could have made more sense on a Nintendo platforms because of its design and genre. You replied that it didn't make sense because two unrelated Square Enix 3DS games (one of them in another franchise), targeted to different audiences and with different production values, sort of underperformed. I mean, World of FF would wish to see KH3D numbers at this point, lol

Only thing i find broken was your post about how you think Itadaki will underperform on PS4/Vita and that it would be better suited for Nintendo platforms along with WoFF (without giving any real reason why you believe that, except family games are better suited for Nintendo systems). How is FFE and KH unrelated exactly? Both are Square Enix games. KH has FF characters like Itadaki too. Also, KH and FF target different audiences? I mean KH surely has the Disney audience but i don't know many FF fans that aren't interested in KH and vice versa. Also, what you said about production values for KH3D and FFE doesn't make sense since you can't know the exact budget and it's probably not true considering both are 3DS games.

 

[Fiendcode]

MonHun World can actually be compared to Super Mario World in a way.
It was technically SMB4, but changed its structure enough, appeared on a new platform, pushed the envelope in some ways while staying pretty safe, etc.

World is the classic term used for "bigger in every way", be it graphics, world structure, bigger features/budget/etc. It's exactly the case for MHW, trying to show it's going to bigger horizons.
Of course they could have called it "MH5: World", but that's a stupid logic they don't use in the series and is more commonly used in the west.

It’s worth pointing out Mario World was called “Super Mario Bros. 4: Super Mario World” in Japan.

Relative to the Japanese market I think breaking with Global branding and calling it “Monster Hunter 5: Monster Hunter World” would only have a positive effect commercially.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? A DQ creator makes a video that talks about DQ XI coming to the west. The video is on the official PS youtube account, made specifically for the audience of that account. I'm pretty sure hes talking about the PS4 version getting localise.

Sure other version might and will probably get localised too, but that video is saying DQ XI is coming to PS4 in the west. No other way to read it

Yuji Horii talked about the game getting localizaed, he never says a word about platforms. We know it’s coming west on (at least) PS4 but that wasn’t confirmed by either Horii or SE and was only implied by Sony’s PlayStation channel rehosting the announcement video.

No it didn't. Last time i checked it was around 270-290k. Game had the FF brand, hunting gerne, released on the holiday period and 3DS was on fire then. I still remember how people (including me) thought it would set the charts on fire. Lowest prediction was around 500k.

Despite what people believed and their predictions, the fact that Square released a new Explorers game for mobile and didn't even bothered with a ''G'' version for 3DS should tell us something.

Explorers did around or better than expected looking at the old threads. No one predicted 500k+ from what I can find either, at least not once we found out it was a low budget Racjin game.

It doing well seems to have been credited to the strength of the brand and also the lack of secondary hunting games on 3DS. Same thing happened with Attack on Titan. Both were low quality games that sold more than they probably should have, or would have if 3DS had games like God Eater, Toukiden or PSO to fill the gaps around MH.

 

[Oregano]

This doesn't mean that FFE did well either, just because it managed to sell more than WoFF. Of course it would have sell more. It was released on a more popular platform, more popular gerne, better timing etc. I already explained the reasons.

I'm really not sure Hunting Action is more popular than Monster Collecting RPGs.

 

[Chris1964]

Wasn't the game broken in the Japanese release.
Like it had a good first week, but then due to the sorry state of the game, it collapsed or something.

Eh, the opposite happened. It looked like a bad joke when screenshots came out, opened low, but in the end being on 3DS helped it maintain good legs and don't be a complete disaster at sales. At least here, expectations were low.

 

[Fiendcode]

This doesn't mean that FFE did well either, just because it managed to sell more than WoFF. Of course it would have sell more. It was released on a more popular platform, more popular gerne, better timing etc. I already explained the reasons.

Only thing i find broken was your post about how you think Itadaki will underperform on PS4/Vita and that it would be better suited for Nintendo platforms along with WoFF (without giving any real reason why you believe that, except family games are better suited for Nintendo systems). How is FFE and KH unrelated exactly? Both are Square Enix games. KH has FF characters like Itadaki too. Also, KH and FF target different audiences? I mean KH surely has the Disney audience but i don't know many FF fans that aren't interested in KH and vice versa. Also, what you said about production values for KH3D and FFE doesn't make sense since you can't know the exact budget and it's probably not true considering both are 3DS games.

Action hunting is a more popular genre than Collection JRPG?

As for Itadaki Street, why leave out 3DS DQ game comparisons then? Every IS is DQ branded now?

 

[Celine]

Games in the monster hunting genre apart from MH, in the last 5 years of so at most sold about 600K (best selling one is God Eater 2 which was helped to achieve that figure by being also on the aging PSP).
Why would anyone expect Final Fantasy Explorers to sell at least 500K?
Because of the FF brand name?
The FF brand name has lost its luster in Japan and it isn't certainly associated to the monster hunting genre.
The action RPG Final Fantasy spinoff for Nintendo consoles (Crystal Chronicles) ranged anywhere between 320K and 390K despite the brand name (when it had more strength).

 

[Laplasakos]

Explorers did around or better than expected looking at the old threads. No one predicted 500k+ from what I can find either, at least not once we found out it was a low budget Racjin game.

It doing well seems to have been credited to the strength of the brand and also the lack of secondary hunting games on 3DS. Same thing happened with Attack on Titan.

Better or expected according to who? Surely not for SE and their actions prove it so.

Action hunting is a more popular genre than Collection JRPG?

As for Itadaki Street, why leave out 3DS DQ game comparisons then? Every IS is DQ branded now?

Even if it isn't the most popular both are the most popular in Japan (or on par). Don't try to move the discussion elsewhere now. This isn't the only reason why Explorers underperformed (the gerne) i mean.

 

[Eolz]

It’s worth pointing out Mario World was called “Super Mario Bros. 4: Super Mario World” in Japan.

Relative to the Japanese market I think breaking with Global branding and calling it “Monster Hunter 5: Monster Hunter World” would only have a positive effect commercially.

Oh, that's a good point, my bad. For some reason I remembered SMW being called just SMB4 in Japan, forgot about the subtitle.
That's a good point that calling it like that in Japan (MH5:W) would have been a good move. It's not like we're not used to different names in the west too (even recently with X->Generations, or the whole G->Ultimate business).

Explorers did around or better than expected looking at the old threads. No one predicted 500k+ from what I can find either, at least not once we found out it was a low budget Racjin game.

It doing well seems to have been credited to the strength of the brand and also the lack of secondary hunting games on 3DS. Same thing happened with Attack on Titan. Both were low quality games that sold more than they probably should have, or would have if 3DS had games like God Eater, Toukiden or PSO to fill the gaps around MH.

Eh, the opposite happened. It looked like a bad joke when screenshots came out, opened low, but in the end being on 3DS helped it maintain good legs and don't be a complete disaster at sales. At least here, expectations were low.

Yeah I can't remember people here being extremely optimistic for this game at the time...
Nor for WOFF, despite some other threads making it look like that.

 

[fortunato]

Games in the monster hunting genre apart from MH, in the last 5 years of so at most sold about 600K (best selling one is God Eater 2 which was helped to achieve that figure by being also on PSP).
Why would anyone expect Final Fantasy Explorers to sell at least 500K?
Because of the FF brand name?
The FF brand name has lost its luster in Japan and it isn't certainly associated to the monster hunting genre.
The action RPG Final Fantasy spinoff for Nintendo consoles (Crystal Chronicles) ranged anywhere between 320K and 390K despite the brand name (when it had more strength).

Indeed.

I mean, in theory it was a game that could have done extremely well: a Final Fantasy hunting game on 3DS release during holidays. In practice, everyone saw low production values and marketing by Square Enix. The game had much more legs than expected, and crawled towards 300k units. At least, Square Enix saw some potential in the franchise as the game will be on mobile. I hardly see World of Final Fantasy coming back, unless as a late porting or with a complete makeover.

 

[Fiendcode]

Better or expected according to who? Surely not for SE and their actions prove it so.

According to the people in the Mediacreate thread, whose responses seemed rather different from the 500k+ expectation you fabricated. SE never gave an indication one way or the other from what I can find.

Even if it isn't the more popular both are the most popular in Japan (or on par). Don't try to move the discussion elsewhere now. This isn't the only reason why Explorers underperformed (the gerne) i mean.

The hunting genre doesn’t seem all that popular outside MH. It’s not anything like Collection RPGs where we see multiple franchises doing a million+ over the years, I see no indication these genres are “on par”?

 

[Laplasakos]

According to the people in the Mediacreate thread, whose responses seemed rather different from the 500k+ expectation you fabricated. SE never gave an indication one way or the other from what I can find.

So just because some people in the MC threads think the game did well, it means it did? Is this a serious argument?

Please find my post where i said anything about people in the MC threads expecting 500k. I was speaking about the general impression from various forums. Who is fabricating now? Next time read more carefully.

 

[Eolz]

So just because some people in the MC threads think the game did well, it means it did? Is this a serious argument?

Please find my post where i said anything about people in the MC threads expecting 500k. I was speaking about the general impression from various forums. Who is fabricating now? Next time read more carefully.

You said

No it didn't. Last time i checked it was around 270-290k. Game had the FF brand, hunting gerne, released on the holiday period and 3DS was on fire then. I still remember how people (including me) thought it would set the charts on fire. Lowest prediction was around 500k.

Despite what people believed and their predictions, the fact that Square released a new Explorers game for mobile and didn't even bothered with a ''G'' version for 3DS should tell us something.

How are we supposed to know you were talking about other forums when everyone here always talk about either this forum or things like YSO/COMG/publishers themselves?
Especially when there's a prediction league every month in those threads?

Come on now...

 

[d+pad]

Please find my post where i said anything about people in the MC threads expecting 500k. I was speaking about the general impression from various forums.

Here is what you said earlier in this very thread: I still remember how people (including me) thought it would set the charts on fire. Lowest prediction was around 500k.

Most people would take that to mean you were talking about predictions from old MC threads--since, you know, we're currently in an MC thread. If you really meant "general impressions from various forums," you probably should have specified that.

 

[test_account]

I feel like it does matter, at least to some people, when they say "this is not a numbered title so meh" which I've seen on JP boards but yeah I realise dismissing a game because it isn't numbered is really silly.

Yeah, thats true. I was thinking more in general, i dont think it will have any big noticeable effect.

MonHun World can actually be compared to Super Mario World in a way.
It was technically SMB4, but changed its structure enough, appeared on a new platform, pushed the envelope in some ways while staying pretty safe, etc.

World is the classic term used for "bigger in every way", be it graphics, world structure, bigger features/budget/etc. It's exactly the case for MHW, trying to show it's going to bigger horizons.
Of course they could have called it "MH5: World", but that's a stupid logic they don't use in the series and is more commonly used in the west.

Yeah, its possible that this is one reason indeed, but Capcom did also comment on that the name change was not to scare away newcomers:

Ryozo Tsujimoto: This is the next main Monster Hunter game. Our Osaka team is working on it. We've brought in some people who are more familiar with next-gen technology to come in and help us adapt it for the current generation of consoles. When you have a series that runs into the higher numbers, I think the numbers themselves start to become off-putting. New players might think, "Oh, I've missed four games already, I can't possibly join at this point." Just because we've taken the number off the title doesn't mean it's not a main Monster Hunter game.

http://www.glixel.com/interviews/monster-hunter-world-leads-answer-all-the-big-questions-w488101
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1394190

Dropping the number (or even the title) for another term is not only used to show some bigger or different things (as seen with World), but also as said before to do risky things that can then be changed/reappropriated later on if it works out well. If it does alright, it becomes a spinoff, if it does badly, it's not an issue to drop it...
The Third Birthday (Parasite Eve 3), Super Meat Boy Forever (being discussed as 2, while being an auto runner not appealing to most people), SMT Strange Journey (being a mainline title but not IV due to not being in Tokyo), Persona dropping the SMT marketing part of the title later on, Castlevania dropping the numbers in the west once it left Nintendo platforms, Call of Duty with the whole Modern Warfare thing, Ace Combat (if Assault Horizon had been successful, I'm not sure the new game would be called 7)... Hell, there could be a Marvel vs Capcom 4 some years from now for all we know.
I don't think we'll have to wait long for MHW before knowing in which category it's falling.

Maybe i misunderstood you earlier. I thought you ment that there were other examples were publishers had "saved" a numbered title in fear of "using it up" (or what i shall say), and then went back to it in future game(s) because the previous game(s) was a failure. Otherwise its true that they can drop the numbered title for different reasons, but are there any known cases were we know that the main reason was to "save" the numbered title, and then they returned to numbered titles because previous games didnt live up to expecations?

Modern Warfare was named "Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare" by the way. Activision dropped the "CoD(number)" branding after this. Another example is Assassin's Creed. The last numbered title was Black Flag ("Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag").

 

[Laplasakos]

You said



How are we supposed to know you were talking about other forums when everyone here always talk about either this forum or things like YSO/COMG/publishers themselves?
Especially when there's a prediction league every month in those threads?

Come on now...

Here is what you said earlier in this very thread: I still remember how people (including me) thought it would set the charts on fire. Lowest prediction was around 500k.

Most people would take that to mean you were talking about predictions from old MC threads--since, you know, we're currently in an MC thread. If you really meant "general impressions from various forums," you probably should have specified that.

I never specified MC threads either though. If i was talking about MC threads specifically i would have wrote it. I didn't know it would case a confusion. Next time i will try to be more specific.

 

[Aters]

Honestly I don't think WoFF can do well on any platform. But 3DS could push more sales in Japan simply due to larger install base.

How does it perform in the west? For FF the western market is more important.

 

[Chris1964]

Maybe i misunderstood you earlier. I thought you ment that there were other examples were publishers had "saved" a numbered title in fear of "using it up" (or what i shall say), and then went back to it in future game(s) because the previous game(s) was a failure. Otherwise its true that they can drop the numbered title for different reasons, but are there any known cases were we know that the main reason was to "save" the numbered title, and then they returned to numbered titles because previous games didnt live up to expecations?

Peace Walker

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Honestly I don't think WoFF can do well on any platform. But 3DS could push more sales in Japan simply due to larger install base.

How does it perform in the west? For FF the western market is more important.

=(

Its good though.

 

[Eolz]

Yeah, thats true. I was thinking more in general, i dont think it will have any big noticeable effect.



Yeah, its possible that this is one reason indeed, but Capcom did also comment on that the name change was not to scare away newcomers:


http://www.glixel.com/interviews/monster-hunter-world-leads-answer-all-the-big-questions-w488101
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1394190



Maybe i misunderstood you earlier. I thought you ment that there were other examples were publishers had "saved" a numbered title, and then went back to it in future game(s) because the previous game(s) was a failure. Otherwise its true that they can drop the numbered title for different reasons, but are there any known cases were they returned to numbered titles because previous games didnt live up to expecations?

Modern Warfare was named "Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare" by the way. Activision dropped the "CoD(number)" branding after this. Another example is Assassin's Creed. The last numbered title was Black Flag ("Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag").

Yeah, I know what Capcom said, but you don't say "maybe there'll be a 5" before it releases... I'm not saying that's what is going to happen, just that there is a low possibility for that.

I probably misunderstood you earlier for the question, but as examples of games trying something then going back to numbers, there's arguably Resident Evil, with Code Veronica; Ace Combat with Assault Horizon's ambiguous messaging at the time and the other games after 6;
Then we can imagine that some franchises will probably do the same if they ever come back, like Devil May Cry, Sim City, Mass Effect... There's also Metroid's special case of using numbers for chronological in house games, with still no Metroid 5 being out there.

I know for COD/AC btw, but probably used a bad wording. What I meant by that is that COD dropped the numbers after the series started going into various directions. There's mainlines and spinoffs for them anymore.

I never specified MC threads either though. If i was talking about MC threads specifically i would have wrote it. I didn't know it would case a confusion. Next time i will try to be more specific.

As said above, if you try to be implicit, you know that most people here don't care about other forums. Hence the confusion.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I never specified MC threads either though.

Is this a real argument? Like actually?

 

[Kyoufu]

I think Capcom stated not long ago that they're moving away from numbered MH titles so don't expect "MH5" to be a title on any platform.

It makes a lot of sense with their worldwide strategy, I suppose, but World being titled MH5 would have been more commanding, especially when you're trying to convince current MH fans that console MH is worth playing.

I'm only saying this because numbers matter to some people. :x

 

[Laplasakos]

Is this a real argument? Like actually?

It's the truth. I never specified and if i knew it would case a confusion i would. Don't know what else you want me to say. A formal apology?

 

[Orgen]

It's the truth. I never specified and if i knew it would case a confusion i would. Don't know what else you want me to say. A formal apology?

It's better if you say it's a joke

 

[fortunato]

Peace Walker

Ace Combat: Assault Horizon is another notable example. Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journer was Shin Megami Tensei IV at a certain point. There were rumors that Code Veronica was also supposed to be a mainline numbered entry.

 

[Laplasakos]

It's better if you say it's a joke

I undersood that reference

 

[test_account]

Peace Walker

Did Konami/Kojima comment on this why they called it MGS 5, eventhough Peace Walker was released? Or do you think that MGS 5 would be called something else if Peace Walker sold better?

Yeah, I know what Capcom said, but you don't say "maybe there'll be a 5" before it releases... I'm not saying that's what is going to happen, just that there is a low possibility for that.

Sure, i agree that its possible, but the quote does show that the drop in number is also due to not wanting to scare away newcomers.

I probably misunderstood you earlier for the question, but as examples of games trying something then going back to numbers, there's arguably Resident Evil, with Code Veronica; Ace Combat with Assault Horizon's ambiguous messaging at the time and the other games after 6;
Then we can imagine that some franchises will probably do the same if they ever come back, like Devil May Cry, Sim City, Mass Effect... There's also Metroid's special case of using numbers for chronological in house games, with still no Metroid 5 being out there.

I'm not sure about Code Veronica because it was released about 4 months after Resident Evil 3. Both games were in developement at the same time, so i'm not sure if it was an attempt to go away from numbered titles. But with Ace Combat, i agree that numbering it 7 looks like an attempt to "bring it back in full" (for the lack of better words).

I know for COD/AC btw, but probably used a bad wording. What I meant by that is that COD dropped the numbers after the series started going into various directions. There's mainlines and spinoffs for them anymore.

I understand. As a side note, i dont think there really any "mainline VS spinoff" CoD game anymore.

 

[Celine]

Action hunting is a more popular genre than Collection JRPG?

That's not the right question.
The Monster Breeding genre (AKA Pokemon clones) and the Monster Hunting genre (AKA Monster Hunter clones) are in a different point of the genre life cycle because MH exploded in popularity a decade after Pokemon did.
A genre life cycle is always composed of a beginning phase where there is the emergence of a new kind of gameplay which become extremely popular (with lots of good word of mouth).
A frenzy phase where publishers fund lots of clones in the attempt to cash in the new popular genre and from which will emerge the genre king (usually the game series that started the craze or if mismanaged another publisher's franchise created during the frenzy stage).
A third phase of consolidation where the clones continue to sell less with each new entries therefore the publishers stop to fund other clones and all that rest are the genre king(s) which still sell very well and the very best (selling) also-run(s) that still put up good sales.
Then there is a fourth phase where the genre is mature and depending on the quality of the idea at the base of the genre (I mean the long standing appeal of the idea), the new trends in the industry and the ability of the company that own the genre king to keep the franchise relevant with sound sequels, the genre might be reduced to a niche or still be represented by the genre king that compose the majority of the sales in the genre and few other offerings.
What I described is of course a generalization and need to be considered as such.

Monster Breeding is already in the mature phase.
We already know who the genre king is (Pokemon) and who the also run is (Dragon Quest Monsters).
Pokemon clones on dedicated consoles are very few these days.
Monster Hunting is in the consolidating phase, new clones were still funded in the last period (especially because Sony pushed for MH replacements for Vita after MH became a 3DS exclusive) but it's clear that Monster Hunter is the genre king and God Eater is the also run.

Now you may ask how to contextualize Yokai Watch and to a lesser extent Inazuma Eleven success in the theory I exposed above.
Well the difference between Pokemon and Yokai Watch is that in the case of Pokemon the anime began airing in Japan a year and half after the game was released and already sold millions of units that is the anime was created because the videogame was already insanely popular to give to the whole franchise even more exposition.
On the other hand Yokai Watch (but also Inazuma Eleven) 's popularity was brought onto the videogame by the multimedia projects planned by Level 5 and its partners.

 

[Lonely1]

IIRC further news was expected this Fall. I think a Switch unveil+PS4/Switch localization at the same time is pretty likely.

Do you really believe a Switch unveil this fall?

 

[TheLegendaryN]

That's not the right question.
The Monster Breeding genre (AKA Pokemon clones) and the Monster Hunting genre (AKA Monster Hunter clones) are in a different point of the genre life cycle because MH exploded in popularity a decade after Pokemon did.
A genre life cycle is always composed of a beginning phase where there is the emergence of a new kind of gameplay which become extremely popular (with lots of good word of mouth).
A frenzy phase where publishers fund lots of clones in the attempt to cash in the new popular genre and from which will emerge the genre king (usually the game series that started the craze or if mismanaged another publisher's franchise created during the frenzy stage).
A third phase of consolidation where the clones continue to sell less with each new entries therefore the publishers stop to fund other clones and all that rest are the genre king(s) which still sell very well and the very best (selling) also-run(s) that still put up good sales.
Then there is a fourth phase where the genre is mature and depending on the quality of the idea at the base of the genre (I mean the long standing appeal of the idea), the new trends in the industry and the ability of the company that own the genre king to keep the franchise relevant with sound sequels, the genre might be reduced to a niche or still be represented by the genre king that compose the majority of the sales in the genre and few other offerings.
What I described is of course a generalization and need to be considered as such.

Monster Breeding is already in the mature phase.
We already know who the genre king is (Pokemon) and who the also run is (Dragon Quest Monsters).
Pokemon clones on dedicated consoles are very few these days.
Monster Hunting is in the consolidating phase, new clones were still funded in the last period (especially because Sony pushed for MH replacements for Vita after MH became a 3DS exclusive) but it's clear that Monster Hunter is the genre king and God Eater is the also run.

Now you may ask how to contextualize Yokai Watch and to a lesser extent Inazuma Eleven success in the theory I exposed above.
Well the difference between Pokemon and Yokai Watch is that in the case of Pokemon the anime began airing a year and half after the game was released and already sold millions of units that is the anime was created because the videogame was already insanely popular to give to the whole franchise even more exposition.
On the other hand Yokai Watch (but also Inazuma Eleven) 's popularity was brought onto the videogame by the multimedia projects planned by Level 5 and its partners.

Great post. I agree with a lot of this.
I want to add that clones/replacements can still work in the mature phase when the genre is underrepresented on a certain platform. You said this regarding MH and the Vita, which is in the consolidation phase ofc, but I think replacements could definitely still find success beside MH, just on other systems. The big problem devs face now is that their replacement series don't have the power of stay interesting for lots of iterations. The big question is whether new IPs in the same genre would result in better sales tho.

 

[test_account]

Ace Combat: Assault Horizon is another notable example. Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journer was Shin Megami Tensei IV at a certain point. There were rumors that Code Veronica was also supposed to be a mainline numbered entry.

Did Strange Journey sell bad, and this was the reason for why the next game was called IV?

Yeah, i've read that Code Veronica could have been RE3, but the title was given to, well, RE3, instead. I dont think this was an attempt to move away from numbered entries since it was only some months between the release of RE3 and Code Veronica.

 

[fortunato]

That's not the right question.
The Monster Breeding genre (AKA Pokemon clones) and the Monster Hunting genre (AKA Monster Hunter clones) are in a different point of the genre life cycle because MH exploded in popularity a decade after Pokemon did.
A genre life cycle is always composed of a beginning phase where there is the emergence of a new kind of gameplay which become extremely popular (with lots of good word of mouth).
A frenzy phase where publishers fund lots of clones in the attempt to cash in the new popular genre and from which will emerge the genre king (usually the game series that started the craze or if mismanaged another publisher's franchise created during the frenzy stage).
A third phase of consolidation where the clones continue to sell less with each new entries therefore the publishers stop to fund other clones and all that rest are the genre king(s) which still sell very well and the very best (selling) also-run(s) that still put up good sales.
Then there is a fourth phase where the genre is mature and depending on the quality of the idea at the base of the genre, the new trend in the industry and the ability of the company that own the genre king to keep the franchise relevant with sound sequels, the genre might be reduced to a niche or still be represented by the genre king that compose the majority of the sales in the genre and few other offerings.
What I described is of course a generalization and need to be considered as such.

Monster Breeding is already in the mature phase.
We already know who the genre king is (Pokemon) and who the also run is (Dragon Quest Monsters).
Pokemon clones on dedicated consoles are very few these days.
Monster Hunting is in the consolidating phase, new clones were still funded in the last period (especially because Sony pushed for MH replacements for Vita after MH became a 3DS exclusive) but it's clear that Monster Hunter is the genre king and God Eater is the also run.

Now you may ask how to contextualize Yokai Watch and to a lesser extent Inazuma Eleven success in the theory I exposed above.
Well the difference between Pokemon and Yokai Watch is that in the case of Pokemon the anime began airing a year and half after the game was released and already sold millions of units that is the anime was created because the videogame was already insanely popular to give to the whole franchise even more exposition.
On the other hand Yokai Watch (but also Inazuma Eleven) 's popularity was brought onto the videogame by the multimedia projects planned by Level 5 and its partners.

I wonder whether we will see something like Pokémon again. Its run was amazing. It basically injected 5 more years in GB lifecycle. It opened with about 110k units behind Super Famista 5 and Power Pro Baseball 3. It kept selling in the range of 10-25k units for weeks (and more during traditional holidays like the Golden Week and Obon); it had a first good holiday season (but nothing spectacular) and then it kept selling and selling and selling. After a year after launch (and over 1m sales), it started to increase its weekly sales to 30k+ copies. It achieved the n.1 only in April 1997 (the first n.1 of many). It started losing some steam in early 1998, but the legend was born

Did Strange Journey sell bad, and this was the reason for why the next game was called IV?

According to Wikipedia:

The game's title was originally going to be Shin Megami Tensei IV, but due to the game's setting, it was decided to give it its own subtitle.

I think there was the fear of not selling as well as the previous entry, though. Luckily, IV sold extremely well.

 

[schuelma]

Do you really believe a Switch unveil this fall?

Why not?

 

[Fukuzatsu]

I think Capcom stated not long ago that they're moving away from numbered MH titles so don't expect "MH5" to be a title on any platform.

It makes a lot of sense with their worldwide strategy, I suppose, but World being titled MH5 would have been more commanding, especially when you're trying to convince current MH fans that console MH is worth playing.

I'm only saying this because numbers matter to some people. :x

I don't think the "Capcom is just saving MH5 for when they come running back to Nintendo and/or the portable audience" theory is ever going to die until they eventually put one out, but it only makes sense if you choose to think they're lying about why this game is called 'World'.

Looking at the series as a whole, the last game that even had a number at all was 4G (in 2014/15), and other games since have been, well, non-numbered (X, XX, Frontier Z).

 

[Refyref]

Did Strange Journey sell bad, and this was the reason for why the next game was called IV?

No, they have a rule that the game must take place in Tokyo in order to be a numbered entry. SJ takes place in Antarctica.

 

[Vena]

Looking at the series as a whole, the last game that even had a number at all was 4G (in 2014/15), and other games since have been, well, non-numbered (X, XX, Frontier Z).

X is actually the variant of successful spin-off. Unexpectedly so.

XX wasn't meant to exist initially, but then Capcom got greedy.

I just checked the COMG archive, and i didnt find MH3G, 4 or 4G being available for pre-orders within the same time duration. I did find MHX and MHXX, being at around 250p and 182p respectively. I also found MHP3rd at about 950p. Otherwise true that pre-order numbers excalated more rapidly, but arent people expecting far less from MHW? The general consensus in these threads seems to be around ~1.5m LTD if i'm not mistaken. Then lower pre-orders should also be expected?

Honestly, not sure what we're discussing. You seem to share my exact, or close enough, mindset.

 

[Fukuzatsu]

No, they have a rule that the game must take place in Tokyo in order to be a numbered entry. SJ takes place in Antarctica.

Worth noting as well that aside from the non-numbered SMT games (if..., Devil Summoner, Strange Journey) that spin-offs can still take place in Tokyo (Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner 3, Persona 5).

 

[Fukuzatsu]

X is actually the variant of successful spin-off. Unexpectedly so.

XX wasn't meant to exist initially, but then Capcom got greedy.

Sure, but I think folks would generally agree that it is closer to the core MH gameplay than say, a spin-off like MH Stories, which is an entirely different type of game.

 

[Vena]

Sure, but I think folks would generally agree that it is closer to the core MH gameplay than say, a spin-off like MH Stories, which is an entirely different type of game.

MHStories may as well be a different brand (and is on many ways). Spin-off here we're discussing games that are very similar to their base and could have transitioned to the dominant path if they had succeeded. But are for in plot or minor mechanics differences.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I don't think the "Capcom is just saving MH5 for when they come running back to Nintendo and/or the portable audience" theory is ever going to die until they eventually put one out, but it only makes sense if you choose to think they're lying about why this game is called 'World'.

Looking at the series as a whole, the last game that even had a number at all was 4G (in 2014/15), and other games since have been, well, non-numbered (X, XX, Frontier Z).

That theory died a long time ago when the devs themselves came out and said the reason. What some people feel is irrelevant. The game having the mainline team behind it is just further justification.

 

[Refyref]

Worth noting as well that aside from the non-numbered SMT games (if..., Devil Summoner, Strange Journey) that spin-offs can still take place in Tokyo (Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner 3, Persona 5).

Well, you can't be a numbered main entry if you don't even carry the series name in the title like those last 3 games. :V

 

[Nirolak]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? A DQ creator makes a video that talks about DQ XI coming to the west. The video is on the official PS youtube account, made specifically for the audience of that account. I'm pretty sure hes talking about the PS4 version getting localise.

Sure other version might and will probably get localised too, but that video is saying DQ XI is coming to PS4 in the west. No other way to read it

The distinction being made here was that Square Enix didn’t officially announce platforms, and Sony took down that video, so an absence of it being confirmed for other platforms is not a confirmation of it not coming to those platforms.

It’s similar to when Koei Tecmo or Bandai Namco don’t announce platforms, but Sony puts up videos for their games, or how the statement to Dualshockers regarding Attack on Titan platforms was clearly incomplete even from a PlayStation perspective.

No one is saying it’s not coming to PS4. People are just saying that this was not intended to be the platform announcement and shouldn’t be taken as the final list.

 

[Lonely1]

Yep. We all agree that the PS4 version is the most likely to be coming over... But ala, no official confirmation.

Why not?

Mumblings sound like it is still fairly early in development.

 

[James Scott]

Shocking news. They wouldn't spend this long in a port if it wasn't at least based on that version.

Yeah, not sure how people saw a system that can run BOTW and expected a port of a 3DS game instead of the HD one.

Hope they add then 3DS versions as well to make up for the late release date

 

[fredrancour]

Yeah, not sure how people saw a system that can run BOTW and expected a port of a 3DS game instead of the HD one.

Yeah, it's not like dq is being ported by capcom.

 

[Vena]

I need to look over documentation but I am curious why UE 4.13 to 4.15 would cause such problems. What logic has changed to cause this hiccup.

 

[Celine]

I want to add that clones/replacements can still work in the mature phase when the genre is underrepresented on a certain platform.

Depend on the (long lasting appeal of the) core idea(s) behind the genre and the trends in the industry.
On Famicom:

Xevious: 1.27M
TwinBee: 1.20M
Gradius: 1.00M
Star Soldier: 1.00M

That was in the '80s when shoot'em up was still a very popular genre.
Today? No matter how much underrepresented the genre is on a dedicated console, a shmups should be considered lucky to hit a LTD of 30K.

 

[fortunato]

Is DQXI on PS4 technically demanding? I saw some Twitch streams, and while it looks gorgeous, it doesn't seem something Switch cannot run, of course with some downgrades here and there.

Depend on the core idea behind the genre and the trends in the industry.
On Famicom:

Xevious: 1.27M
TwinBee: 1.20M
Gradius: 1.00M
Star Soldier: 1.00M

That was in the '80s when shoot'em up was still a very popular genre.
Today? No matter how much underrepresented the genre is on a dedicated console, a shmups should be considered lucky to hit a LTD of 30K.

True.

Another relevant factor, in addition to gamers' preferences, to explain those really high sales (not only for shmups but also for many other games such as Metroid or Dragon Ball tie-ins) is the fact that back then there were less games released, and therefore sales could be more concentrated around some titles. Please tell me if this makes sense.