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Media Create Sales: Week 39, 2017 (Sep 25 - Oct 01)

Å

Ōkami

Member
DQXI doesn't run at 1080 on a base PS4 and has some mimor framerate issues.

More than a little downgrade will be needed for Switch.
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Week 41, 2017 (Oct 11 - Oct 17)

new releases

{2017.10.11}
[3DS] Sora no Folklore _3DS Download Software_ |DL| <RPG> (Kemco) (¥740)
[3DS] Go! Go! Kokopolo 3D _3DS Download Software_ |DL| <ACT> (Starsign) (¥555)
[3DS] Super Baseball Stadium: Nekketsu Story _3DS Download Software_ |DL| <SPT> (Culture Brain) (¥462)
[PS4] Toy Odyssey: The Lost and Found _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ACT> (Digital Smash) (¥1.532)

{2017.10.12}
[PSV] Yoshiwara Higanbana Kuon no Chigiri <ADV> (Prototype) (¥6.400)
[PSV] Yoshiwara Higanbana Kuon no Chigiri (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ADV> (Prototype) (¥5.278)
[NSW] Lost Sphear <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥5.800)
[NSW] Lost Sphear (&#949;) _Nintendo eShop Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥5.800)
[NSW] Overcooked: Special Edition <Overcooked \ Overcooked: The Lost Morsel \ Overcooked: Festive Seasoning> _Nintendo Switch Download Software_ |DL| <ETC> (Team 17) (¥1.990)
[PS4] Lost Sphear <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥5.800)
[PS4] Lost Sphear (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <RPG> (Square Enix) (¥5.800)
[PS4] Middle-earth: Shadow of War <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥7.800)
[PS4] Middle-earth: Shadow of War (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| # <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥7.269)
[PS4] Middle-earth: Shadow of War (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (1)(Silver Edition) <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥9.814)
[PS4] Middle-earth: Shadow of War (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (2)(Gold Edition) <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥11.296)
[PS4] Date-A-Live: Rio Reincarnation HD <Date A Live: Rine Utopia \ Date A Live: Ars Install> # <ADV> (Compile Heart) (¥6.800)
[PS4] Date-A-Live: Rio Reincarnation HD <Date A Live: Rine Utopia \ Date A Live: Ars Install> (Limited Edition) <ADV> (Compile Heart) (¥8.800)
[PS4] Date-A-Live: Rio Reincarnation HD <Date A Live: Rine Utopia \ Date A Live: Ars Install> (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ADV> (Compile Heart) (¥6.000)
[PS4] Summer Lesson: Chisato Shinjo - Shichiyou no Etude |PlayStation VR| _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| # <ETC> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥2.760)
[PS4] Summer Lesson: Chisato Shinjo - Shichiyou no Etude |PlayStation VR| _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| (Deluxe Edition) <ETC> (Bandai Namco Games) (¥7.703)
[XB1] Middle-earth: Shadow of War <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥7.800)
[XB1] Middle-earth: Shadow of War (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| # <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥7.269)
[XB1] Middle-earth: Shadow of War (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| (1)(Silver Edition) <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥9.814)
[XB1] Middle-earth: Shadow of War (&#949;) _Download Version_ |DL| (2)(Gold Edition) <RPG> (Warner Entertainment Japan) (¥11.296)

{2017.10.13}
[PS4] Tear: Owari to Hajimari no Shizuku _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <ADV> (Rockin Heart Games) (¥1.500)

{2017.10.14}
[PS4] No Heroes Allowed! VR |PlayStation VR| <SLG> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) (¥4.900)
[PS4] No Heroes Allowed! VR |PlayStation VR| (&#949;) _PS Store Download Version_ |DL| <SLG> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) (¥4.900)
___

YSO predictions

01. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions < 25k (average 20k)
02. [NSW] Splatoon 2 < 25k (average 20k)
03. [PS4] Lost Sphear < 20k (average 15k)
03. [PS4] Middle-earth: Shadow of War < 20k (average 15k)
 
C

Celine

Member
fortunato said:
I wonder whether we will see something like Pokémon again. Its run was amazing. It basically injected 5 more years in GB lifecycle. It opened with about 110k units behind Super Famista 5 and Power Pro Baseball 3. It kept selling in the range of 10-25k units for weeks (and more during traditional holidays like the Golden Week and Obon); it had a first good holiday season (but nothing spectacular) and then it kept selling and selling and selling. After a year after launch (and over 1m sales), it started to increase its weekly sales to 30k+ copies. It achieved the n.1 only in April 1997 (the first n.1 of many). It started losing some steam in early 1998, but the legend was born ;)
Click to expand...
Never say never but it's hard (in part due to the historical state of the dedicated videogame industry).
Just like it will be very hard for a non-Nintendo game to top Monster Hunter Portable 3 and Dragon Quest XI sales.
Pokemon R/G/B was the best selling game in calendar year 1996 (ahead of Tekken 2, Super Mario RPG, Resident Evil and Super Mario 64), the best selling game in CY 1997 (ahead of an historical game like Final Fantasy VII) and the second best selling game in CY 1998 (behind Resident Evil 2) with Pokemon Yellow at number 4 (combining R/G/B/Y it would have been number 1 yet again).
Three straight years of dominance starting from a relatively modest first week result.
 
V

Vena

Member
&#332;kami;251353982 said:
DQXI doesn't run at 1080 on a base PS4 and has some mimor framerate issues.

More than a little downgrade will be needed for Switch.
Click to expand...

Depends on what the issues were for PS4. Downgrades for sure, but some of the Switch's NVI (Vulkan derivative) is really happy when working with compliant UE4.

Snake Pass may be a half-decent comparison, though Snake Pass used a poor compliance UE4 for the Switch that early on so they brute forced purely on Vulkan.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
...Lost Sphear is our already?

Vena said:
I need to look over documentation but I am curious why UE 4.13 to 4.15 would cause such problems. What logic has changed to cause this hiccup.
Click to expand...
This is unlikely the source of issues. It’s more about performance.

Unreal Engine 4.13 was the September 2016 release as it was, so they obviously upgraded engine versions many times in development.
 
M

MoonFrog

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
Remember when people said they didnt want downgraded console games on their handhelds? Lol
Click to expand...

Never said that here (I wasn't here in the relevant time period), but whenever I thought things like that it was along the lines of trying and failing to achieve what a home console game was also going for.

The thing is, I don't think the down-graded DQXI people are thinking about is going to be a different game with a curtailed vision wrt systems, scenario, locations, etc. It is presumably going to be DQXI as it was on the PS4 with worse graphics and performance. It probably isn't going to be some cheap (failed) recreation that isn't particularly faithful to the game/franchise it is recreating nor particularly mindful of the platform it is being ported to. (which would be opposed to a game that is a "full" effort on the platform).

I also doubt it is going to be god-awful wrt performance to the point of being not playable. That's another sort of bad downgrade of a stationary console game.

(It is also going to be in a genre that has a long-proven track record of being the sort of game people want on portable consoles.)
 
Å

Ōkami

Member
As it is it doesn't seem like the PS4 was good enough for Savior Horii's ambitions as the world is considerably smaller and more split than in previous titles

Like its clear that the PS4 was the lead platform and then adapted from there, 3DS version is fantastic on its own, but after playing on PS4 its obvious what Horii wanted.

Switch at least should have better loading than on PS4.
 
V

Vena

Member
Nirolak said:
...Lost Sphear is our already?


This is unlikely the source of issues. It’s more about performance.

Unreal Engine 4.13 was the September 2016 release as it was, so they obviously upgraded engine versions many times in development.
Click to expand...

Was going by the tweet. Assumed they heard it was the cause, which was confusing.
 
J

Jon Carter

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
Remember when people said they didnt want downgraded console games on their handhelds? Lol
Click to expand...

They meant Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Resistance: Burning Skies, Assassin's Creed III: Liberation, Call of Duty: Black Ops Declassified or that port of Borderlands 2. People still wouldn't want those.

The downgrades to Dragon Quest XI will most likely be insignificant to the public at large, who doesn't compare screenshots or watch Digital Foundry comparisons. I'm on GAF and I can't even tell the difference between 720p MK8 and 1080p MK8DX even though I own both games.
 
C

Celine

Member
fortunato said:
Another relevant factor, in addition to gamers' preferences, to explain those really high sales (not only for shmups but also for many other games such as Metroid or Dragon Ball tie-ins) is the fact that back then there were less games released, and therefore sales could be more concentrated around some titles. Please tell me if this makes sense.
Click to expand...
Context is always fundamental to understand what sales figures might indicate.
In the Famicom era there were certainly less videogames compared to nowadays and more importantly less competition for digital entertainment.
Early Famicom games were surely helped by being released in the first few years when there was small quantity of games available for the system (fun fact: on Famicom in 1983 there were available only first-party games and in 1984 first-party games were still the majority of the releases that year) but eventually about 1000 games were produced for the console.
Dragon Ball was the golden boy of the golden age of Shonen Jump so it isn't surprising that the tie in sold very well.
Metroid was one of the first defining game for the Famicom Disk System.
 
O

Oregano

Member
Celine said:
Context is always fundamental to understand what sales figures might indicate.
In the Famicom era there were certainly less videogames compared to nowadays and more importantly less competition for digital entertainment.
Early Famicom games were surely helped by being released in the first few years when there was small quantity of games available for the system (fun fact: on Famicom in 1983 there were available only first-party games while in 1984 first-party games were still the majority of the releases that year) but eventually about 1000 games were produced for the console.
Click to expand...

Were Famicom owners starving for game?
 
K

Kanann

Member
Nirolak said:
...Lost Sphear is our already?


This is unlikely the source of issues. It’s more about performance.

Unreal Engine 4.13 was the September 2016 release as it was, so they obviously upgraded engine versions many times in development.
Click to expand...

12 October, JP version.
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Jon Carter said:
They meant Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Resistance: Burning Skies, Assassin's Creed III: Liberation, Call of Duty: Black Ops Declassified or that port of Borderlands 2. People still wouldn't want those.

The downgrades to Dragon Quest XI will most likely be insignificant to the public at large, who doesn't compare screenshots or watch Digital Foundry comparisons. I'm on GAF and I can't even tell the difference between 720p MK8 and 1080p MK8DX even though I own both games.
Click to expand...

If you think these switch ports are just going to drop res to 720p you are going to be disappointed. its going to take alot more work than that.
 
T

TheLegendaryN

Member
Chris1964 said:
Week 41, 2017 (Oct 11 - Oct 17)

YSO predictions

01. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions < 25k (average 20k)
02. [NSW] Splatoon 2 < 25k (average 20k)
03. [PS4] Lost Sphear < 20k (average 15k)
03. [PS4] Middle-earth: Shadow of War < 20k (average 15k)
Click to expand...

A rough estimate for Lost Sphear's FW would be to halve I Am Setsuna's FW (~60k / 2 = ~30k), but it seems like they won't even reach that. Lost Sphear lacks a Vita version, and I don't see the Switch make up for that loss. Very meager what Tokyo RPG Factory have produced so far, at least in terms of sales (I'm not a fan of Setsuna, but that's personal preference of course). I guess the production value of their games also is very low.
 
Laplasakos

Laplasakos

Member
City Shrouded in Shadow releases in two weeks and i am wondering how it will sell. The game is doing good on COMG and it's slowly climbing in Amazon ranking (in top 20). It's a new IP from a new studio (Granzella) so it's performance should be interesting to watch.
 
K

Kanann

Member
As for DQXI Switch, I think we will see some textures and most of the grasses and tree disappear.
Like DQVIII PS2 vs DQVIII 3DS.

Model and AI framework are the same as X, so no problem there.

4 million!
 
O

Oregano

Member
TheLegendaryN said:
A rough estimate for Lost Sphear's FW would be to halve I Am Setsuna's FW (~60k / 2 = ~30k), but it seems like they won't even reach that. Lost Sphear lacks a Vita version, and I don't see the Switch make up for that loss. Very meager what Tokyo RPG Factory have produced so far, at least in terms of sales (I'm not a fan of Setsuna, but that's personal preference of course). I guess the production value of their games also is very low.
Click to expand...

I Am Setsuna had weird hype. It was shown at E3 and there was a big deal made of it being a SNES style JRPG for PS4(And Vita). Then it came out and people realised it was a Hashimoto game.

No ones cares about Lost Sphear.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Lost Sphear is Square Enix trying to sell a mid-tier 3D 3DS game as a nigh full price game on current gen platforms.

It’s honestly insane, but this should hopefully be a wake up call for them.
 
T

TheLegendaryN

Member
Nirolak said:
Lost Sphear is Square Enix trying to sell a mid-tier 3D 3DS game as a nigh full price game on current gen platforms.

It’s honestly insane, but this should hopefully be a wake up call for them.
Click to expand...

How do you want them to react tho? Give Tokyo RPG Factory more budget; let them work on games with different styles/settings; or shut the studio?
 
O

Oregano

Member
Nirolak said:
Lost Sphear is Square Enix trying to sell a mid-tier 3D 3DS game as a nigh full price game on current gen platforms.

It’s honestly insane, but this should hopefully be a wake up call for them.
Click to expand...

They still have Secret of Mana to look forward to.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
The whole point of Tokyo RPG Factory is to make classic style RPGs. The problem they face is that their games aren't priced accordingly. $50 for Lost Sphear is too much.
 
P

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Nirolak said:
Lost Sphear is Square Enix trying to sell a mid-tier 3D 3DS game as a nigh full price game on current gen platforms.

It’s honestly insane, but this should hopefully be a wake up call for them.
Click to expand...

Which is funny considering what their software push on the actual 3DS during it's prime was.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
TheLegendaryN said:
How do you want them to react tho? Give Tokyo RPG Factory more budget; let them work on games with different styles/settings; or shut the studio?
Click to expand...
They have a few options:

1.) Charge an appropriate amount of money (usually $20 to $30 absolute tops given modern standards). Games like Child of Light and Darkest Dungeon should be the price guideline here.

2.) Make higher budget and quality games that can actually command that price point.

3.) Move them to something like f2p mobile games where this production level and kind of questionable setup might succeed.

4.) If they’re not happy with any of these approaches, yes, shuttering the studio would be appropriate. They did set them up as a subsidiary for a reason.
 
M

mao2

Member
&#332;kami;251359877 said:
About 30GB, it'll have to be smaller on Switch, but my point on it being faster was due to cartridges.
Click to expand...
Faster loading is not guaranteed though, as shown by Switch's Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...an-legends-definitive-edition-isnt-definitive
The Definitive Edition's issues are hardly game-breaking, it's just that the collection of missed opportunities, annoyances and cut features creates a sort of momentum of ongoing dissatisfaction as you play - and this starts with the loading screens, which persist for longer than any other version of Rayman Legends we tested. For some stages we're looking at upwards of 16 seconds, and although others can load faster, the reality is that the Wii U - a system notorious for extending loading times - manages to load up the same levels 50 per cent faster than the Switch - and that's from the disc version of the game. Meanwhile, PS4 and Xbox One have no loading screens whatsoever. The PS Vita version was the previous record holder for the longest loads, but the Switch version manages to surpass it.
Click to expand...

Kyoufu said:
The whole point of Tokyo RPG Factory is to make classic style RPGs. The problem they face is that their games aren't priced accordingly. $50 for Lost Sphear is too much.
Click to expand...
This. $30~40 would've been the perfect price point IMO.
 
Eolz

Eolz

Member
Kyoufu said:
The whole point of Tokyo RPG Factory is to make classic style RPGs. The problem they face is that their games aren't priced accordingly. $50 for Lost Sphear is too much.
Click to expand...

It would be fine if their games were good enough. Look at Asano's team, full priced "classic styled" games that deserve it so far.
 
T

TheLegendaryN

Member
&#332;kami;251359877 said:
About 30GB, it'll have to be smaller on Switch, but my point on it being faster was due to cartridges.
Click to expand...

Compression to levels like some games on Switch have done is never ideal - to below 10 gigs while the PS4 version is several tens of gigs. I'd rather have a big cartridge or download.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Eolz said:
It would be fine if their games were good enough. Look at Asano's team, full priced "classic styled" games that deserve it so far.
Click to expand...
Bravely cost $10 less than Lost Sphear does and that game was either high end or at least upper mid-tier by 3DS standards.

If Octopath is $60 I think it will actually not sell nearly as well as Bravely Default did.
 
J

Jon Carter

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
If you think these switch ports are just going to drop res to 720p you are going to be disappointed. its going to take alot more work than that.
Click to expand...

It was just one example. Another example would be lighting. For a lot of people, you'd have to put the two side-by-side. It's a downgrade that makes no difference to the vast majority of people. Round edges that aren't as smooth is another. Less grass. Things like that seem like a lot to people on here when you list the changes and put the two side-by-side, but the reality is people don't know, or don't notice, or don't care about those changes. You don't need side-by-side comparisons for the AAA-type games the Vita got. The gameplay suffered, and visuals and scope are a big part of what makes those games attractive on home consoles. You had to get rid of set pieces for those games.

This is not a problem with Dragon Quest XI, especially since people have not shown a preference for playing DQ games on home consoles, unlike those Western franchises that made one-and-done appearances on the Vita.

As much as some people want to accuse Switch owners who criticized the Vita for its AAA attempts of hypocrisy, it's not true. The Vita was not the Switch before the Switch. It briefly tried to offer home console-like gaming to handhelds, whereas the Switch is actual home console gaming both on a handheld and at home. Those are two key differences. We'll see, but I expect the downgrades in DQXI to be things that won't matter to the mainstream audience.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Nirolak said:
Bravely cost $10 less than Lost Sphear does and that game was either high end or at least upper mid-tier by 3DS standards.

If Octopath is $60 I think it will actually not sell nearly as well as Bravely Default did.
Click to expand...

Bravely Default/Second are top five best looking 3DS games. Not that size is necessarily a measure of better assets but they are two of the top ten largest games on the system as well.
 
O

Oregano

Member
Nirolak said:
Bravely cost $10 less than Lost Sphear does and that game was either high end or at least upper mid-tier by 3DS standards.

If Octopath is $60 I think it will actually not sell nearly as well as Bravely Default did.
Click to expand...

Octopath will definitely be $60 but I think it actually might surprise in the west(not sure about Japan). The Nintendo Direct coverage and Demo both seemed to be well received.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Jon Carter said:
It was just one example. Another example would be lighting. For a lot of people, you'd have to put the two side-by-side. It's a downgrade that makes no difference to the vast majority of people. Round edges that aren't as smooth is another. Less grass. Things like that seem like a lot to people on here when you list the changes and put the two side-by-side, but the reality is people don't know, or don't notice, or don't care about those changes. You don't need side-by-side comparisons for the AAA-type games the Vita got. The gameplay suffered, and visuals and scope are a big part of what makes those games attractive on home consoles. You had to get rid of set pieces for those games.

This is not a problem with Dragon Quest XI, especially since people have not shown a preference for playing DQ games on home consoles, unlike those Western franchises that made one-and-done appearances on the Vita.

As much as some people want to accuse Switch owners who criticized the Vita for its AAA attempts of hypocrisy, it's not true. The Vita was not the Switch before the Switch. It briefly tried to offer home console-like gaming to handhelds, whereas the Switch is actual home console gaming both on a handheld and at home. Those are two key differences. We'll see, but I expect the downgrades in DQXI to be things that won't matter to the mainstream audience.
Click to expand...

Beyond that PSP did that whole scene first, the first three years of PSP games are littered with badly optimized downgraded PS2 games from largely western developers with massive load times to stream content that really wasn't meant for a system that's closer to a souped up PS1.
 
M

mao2

Member
Nirolak said:
Bravely cost $10 less than Lost Sphear does and that game was either high end or at least upper mid-tier by 3DS standards.

If Octopath is $60 I think it will actually not sell nearly as well as Bravely Default did.
Click to expand...
Bravely Default and Lost Sphear are have the same SRP @ 6,264yen in Japan.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B008F29CRM/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B073X15RRR/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B073X2W3CV/

Bravely Second costs slightly higher @ 6,458yen.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00QPOG7JS/
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Oregano said:
Octopath will definitely be $60 but I think it actually might surprise in the west(not sure about Japan). The Nintendo Direct coverage and Demo both seemed to be well received.
Click to expand...
It would have to do at least 600K in the West in the first 6 months to match Bravely Default there, which seems like a huge ask at that price point.

Then Japan needs 400K as well to keep the game on par overall, otherwise you need even more in the West.

mao2 said:
Bravely Default and Lost Sphear are have the same SRP @ 6,264yen in Japan.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B008F29CRM/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B073X15RRR/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B073X2W3CV/

Bravely Second costs slightly higher @ 6,458yen.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00QPOG7JS/
Click to expand...
I suspect that was potentially limiting there too, but I still think it compares more favorably to its platform and standards.

Aren’t consoles games often near or in the 8000s in Japan? There’s at least a distinction between that.
 
O

Oregano

Member
Nirolak said:
It would have to do at least 600K in the West in the first 6 months to match Bravely Default there, which seems like a huge ask at that price point.

Then Japan needs 400K as well to keep the game on par overall, otherwise you need even more in the West.
Click to expand...

I think it could hit that in the west depending on certain factors, such as release timing and product quality. A lot of it comes down to what else is coming to Switch in late 2018, there probably still won't be a lot of competition and it's already getting a decent push from Nintendo.

I definitely don't see it getting anywhere close to 400k in Japan though.
 
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