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[Mory Dunz]

we'll take the Mario Kart discussion elsewhere

But...you know. Online >

Or is the comparison on how good it was when it first came out. And not comparing both today. (MK8 still wins... <_<)

 

[MasterSheen]

The continuous 3DS discrepancies are pretty hilarious

I'm ready for YW to take over the charts again

 

[orioto]

Just wanted to say, it was obvious but.. Yeah, the difference between 3ds smash and wiiu smash in japan seems a big deal to me, symbolically. Smash was one of the only remaining ip from Nintendo where you could say "I need a home console to enjoy it". The last one actually i think.

Everyone is still looking for reasons why the home console struggle but it's so simple actually. Nintendo's offer is legit and self sufficient on portable. No need for a home console anymore.

 

[Chris1964]

If some in here were expecting Smash for Wii U to reach sales of previous entries or being Wii U savior they were dreaming for a very long time.

 

[And_Gignac]

Yeah. There were only 800k GCs to sell SSBM to.

In the US? Well, not that far from Wii U LTD. Also, launch window games always get a sales boost.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Guilty Gear bombed hard. I guess GG really is dead.

 

[arevin01]

Only selling upwards of 20k Wii U with Smash is alarming. I dont know what can Nintendo even do anymore. I suppose just tread lightly and plan the for next system now.

 

[sörine]

I dont know what can Nintendo even do anymore. I suppose just tread lightly and plan the for next system now.

That's all they've been doing for 2 years now. Wii U needed the sort of dramatic action 3DS got near launch, but it just never materialized.

 

[Busaiku]

That's all they've been doing for 2 years now. Wii U needed the sort of dramatic action 3DS got near launch, but it just never materialized.

Cause Nintendo would've been done.
They knew that 3DS support was coming, so they could take a bigger hit on hardware.
They know that absolutely nothing is coming for Wii U, so they can't do anything about that.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

The continuous 3DS discrepancies are pretty hilarious

I'm ready for YW to take over the charts again

Looking forward to this weekend's thread with pictures of lines.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

New 3ds YTD getting closer and closer to Vita´s

 

[sörine]

Cause Nintendo would've been done.
They knew that 3DS support was coming, so they could take a bigger hit on hardware.
They know that absolutely nothing is coming for Wii U, so they can't do anything about that.

That's revisionist. 3rd parties had lined up for Wii U initially, they delayed and canceled as a result of early sales. Had Nintendo not price slashed 3DS so quickly to stimulate sales then the same thing would've happened to that system. Iwata even said as much.

 

[Nirolak]

That's revisionist. 3rd parties had lined up for Wii U initially, they delayed and canceled as a result of early sales. Had Nintendo not price slashed 3DS so quickly to stimulate sales then the same thing would've happened to that system. Iwata even said as much.

My view of the Wii U timeline would basically be:

1.) Nintendo announced a system that they said was supposed to appeal to everyone (be they hardcore or casual), hence the whole "we and you/Wii and U" speech at E3, and pitched it to third parties.

2.) Third parties had a variety of responses to the systems, most choosing to be cautious but present, since they didn't sell much on the Wii, but they didn't want to totally miss out on the system if it was successful. Supporting was overwhelmingly multiplatform games that were already on 360/PS3 that generally looked the same as those versions, were sometimes late or inferior ports, and any use of the tablet was often either gimmicky or non-essential (which makes sense for multiplatform titles). The age of exclusives was over anyway so I'm not sure Nintendo could have expected much else anyway.

3.) The system itself didn't really appeal to the core since they tended to care a large amount about things like hardware power, online networks, and clear support from every major third party, and it didn't appeal to casual gamers as they generally preferred mobile/tablet games or sometimes things like PC or browser games, or they were still satisfied with their Wii. In essence, Nintendo had made a system that tried to appeal to everyone and ended up appealing to no one (outside of their most dedicated fans who were going to buy whatever they put out no matter what).

4.) The system tanked far more than almost anyone was expecting, often even among pretty pessimistic people. The remaining third party support was canceled over the course of about a year to a year and a half depending upon how stubborn the publisher was. Most publishers dropped out within the first few months.

5.) This compounded unto itself and caused the system to tank even further, sealing its fate entirely.

 

[Moor-Angol]

By saying...

3D World > Sunshine
MK8 > MKDD
Pikmin 3 > Pikim 1,2
?

I wouldn't really call that trashing...

Metroid Prime >>>>>> ?
F-Zero GX >>>>>>> ?
1080 >>>>> ?
Wave Race >>>>> ?
Luigi'S Mansion >>>>> ?
RE4 >>>>>> ?
RE0 >>>>>> ?
Viewtiful Joe >>>>> ?
Soul Calibur 2 >>>>> ?
Ikaruga >>>>> ?
WE6 >>>>>> ?

should I have to continue this havoc ?

 

[Chris1964]

Last week had the same. Famitsu has problem with the tracking of old 3DS models, maybe some discounts are happening at retailers.

If some still believe this is a Media Create typo:

3DS Hardware week 49

(Media Create)

New 3DS LL - 63.714
New 3DS - 25.541
3DS LL - 17.319
3DS - 38.846

(Famitsu)

New 3DS LL - 50.534
New 3DS - 20.849
3DS LL - 14.643
3DS - 6.866


3DS Hardware week 48

(Media Create)

New 3DS LL - 48.738
New 3DS - 22.875
3DS LL - 15.182
3DS - 19.722

(Famitsu)

New 3DS LL - 43.684
New 3DS - 22.592
3DS LL - 11.951
3DS - 8.119


According to Famitsu original 3DS went down this week.

 

[Busaiku]

That's revisionist. 3rd parties had lined up for Wii U initially, they delayed and canceled as a result of early sales. Had Nintendo not price slashed 3DS so quickly to stimulate sales then the same thing would've happened to that system. Iwata even said as much.

When Nintendo cut the price for 3DS, they still had Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Inzuma 11 Go (it was still relevant then), Dragon Quest Monsters Terry's Wonderland, etc lined up.
These were not made in 3-9 months, they were planned from the get-go.

Wii U never had anything like that coming.

 

[Celine]

Metroid Prime >>>>>> ?
F-Zero GX >>>>>>> ?
1080 >>>>> ?
Wave Race >>>>> ?
Luigi'S Mansion >>>>> ?
RE4 >>>>>> ?
RE0 >>>>>> ?
Viewtiful Joe >>>>> ?
Soul Calibur 2 >>>>> ?
Ikaruga >>>>> ?
WE6 >>>>>> ?

should I have to continue this havoc ?

And what does this "havoc" had to do with what he posted?

 

[sörine]

When Nintendo cut the price for 3DS, they still had Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Inzuma 11 Go (it was still relevant then), Dragon Quest Monsters Terry's Wonderland, etc lined up.
These were not made in 3-9 months, they were planned from the get-go.

Wii U never had anything like that coming.

Wii U had many many more western games coming though. And many many more cancellations. We're not actually privy to everything that was coming. Some on GAF know and they've implied the scale of cancellation was unprecedented.

Things went bad rapidly because Nintendo did nothing to change Wii U's future when they really needed to. It would've been the same for 3DS had Nintendo treated it similarly. We didn't know about MH3U or DQM3D before 3DS price dropped, and if it hadn't we might've never known about them.

 

[Kandinsky]

If some in here were expecting Smash for Wii U to reach sales of previous entries or being Wii U savior they were dreaming for a very long time.

; ;

 

[Scum]

My view of the Wii U timeline would basically be:

1.) Nintendo announced a system that they said was supposed to appeal to everyone (be they hardcore or casual), hence the whole "we and you/Wii and U" speech at E3, and pitched it to third parties.

2.) Third parties had a variety of responses to the systems, most choosing to be cautious but present, since they didn't sell much on the Wii, but they didn't want to totally miss out on the system if it was successful. Supporting was overwhelmingly multiplatform games that were already on 360/PS3 that generally looked the same as those versions, were sometimes late or inferior ports, and any use of the tablet was often either gimmicky or non-essential (which makes sense for multiplatform titles). The age of exclusives was over anyway so I'm not sure Nintendo could have expected much else anyway.

3.) The system itself didn't really appeal to the core since they tended to care a large amount about things like hardware power, online networks, and clear support from every major third party, and it didn't appeal to casual gamers as they generally preferred mobile/tablet games or sometimes things like PC or browser games, or they were still satisfied with their Wii. In essence, Nintendo had made a system that tried to appeal to everyone and ended up appealing to no one (outside of their most dedicated fans who were going to buy whatever they put out no matter what).

4.) The system tanked far more than almost anyone was expecting, often even among pretty pessimistic people. The remaining third party support was canceled over the course of about a year to a year and a half depending upon how stubborn the publisher was. Most publishers dropped out within the first few months.

5.) This compounded unto itself and caused the system to tank even further, sealing its fate entirely.

Dropping dem bombs. Didn't NCL only leave devs 3-4 months to work with dev kits and whatnot? That's the biggest thing that needs to be sorted out next time.

 

[TI82]

That's all they've been doing for 2 years now. Wii U needed the sort of dramatic action 3DS got near launch, but it just never materialized.

I think they spent waaaay too much money on the UPad that giving the Wii U a price cut comparable to the 3DS one would have nearly bankrupted the company. Or at least the board would have voted Iwata out.

Just speculation who knows. Just to replace the UPad costs between $80 and $100 dollars though, so take that into consideration.

 

[Nirolak]

Dropping dem bombs. Didn't NCL only leave devs 3-4 months to work with dev kits and whatnot? That's the biggest thing that needs to be sorted out next time.

Before the 2012 unveiling I believe that's correct, and the same was true for the 3DS.

Most bafflingly though was that there were frequent accusations (including post launch) that the system only had minimal documentation about how the CPU worked and none for third parties about how the GPU worked, which is why we could never actually get a straight answer about how it would perform form various development studios (including lots of "we think" type statements), yet everyone on earth could see the exacting specifications and designs for how the XB1 and PS4 functioned.

I had no idea if that was a Western third party only thing though and Japan was better supported or not.

But yeah the third audience they failed to court was developers/publishers due to how far Sony and Microsoft go and how... not far at all Nintendo was at the start of this gen.

 

[Spainkiller]

I was one of those people who thought that Smash would save the Wii U.

I'm genuinely sad now

 

[Moor-Angol]

And what does this "havoc" had to do with what he posted?

he posted 3 games that Wii U has superior version
I posted some games which Wii U even doesn't have, if someone is trying to saying that Wii U is superior to Gamecube, well, he's not properly right at all


and I would like to remember that during Christmas week in 2001 (2001/12/24-12/30), the situation was :

GC sold : 929k
Smash sold : 798k

i don't know if we ever had such a tie-ratio, the only thing that comes to my mind is DoA3 on Xbox but not in such proportion

iirc Smash on GC was the fastest title to reach the 1mln milestone on a new system, end of January 2002

GC : 1,157,879
Smash : 1,000,534

 

[Celine]

he posted 3 games that Wii U has superior version
I posted some games which Wii U even doesn't have, if someone is trying to saying that Wii U is superior to Gamecube, well, he's not properly right at all

I don't think he was trying to say the Wii U was superior to GC (or viceversa). Re-read his post and the few before it.

Downplaying the WiiU on a small set of games though isn't that easy IMO.
WiiU certainly lacks in library depth and third party support (compared to CG and pretty much most systems released before).

 

[Scum]

Before the 2012 unveiling I believe that's correct, and the same was true for the 3DS.

Most bafflingly though was that there were frequent accusations (including post launch) that the system only had minimal documentation about how the CPU worked and none for third parties about how the GPU worked, which is why we could never actually get a straight answer about how it would perform form various development studios (including lots of "we think" type statements), yet everyone on earth could see the exacting specifications and designs for how the XB1 and PS4 functioned.

I had no idea if that was a Western third party only thing though and Japan was better supported or not.

But yeah the third audience they failed to court was developers/publishers due to how far Sony and Microsoft go and how... not far at all Nintendo was at the start of this gen.

Fucking hell. It's a damn shame on Iwata's part to drag Nintendo back to NCL when he should have pushed for global shenanigans. NoA & NoE would have no doubt been of great use to Western publishers in this regard. NCL needs to get their shit together with their next platform(s).
Anyway, cheers for the response.

 

[Vena]

Fucking hell. It's a damn shame on Iwata's part to drag Nintendo back to NCL when he should have pushed for global shenanigans. NoA & NoE would have no doubt been of great use to Western publishers in this regard. NCL needs to get their shit together with their next platform(s).
Anyway, cheers for the response.

He's learned his lesson...

...Right?

 

[Takao]

He's learned his lesson...

...Right?

Based on the New 3DS software lineup ... ehhhhh. Granted, there's not much that could be done for it, but it could certainly be better.

 

[Shahed]

He's learned his lesson...

...Right?

Even if the lesson has been learned, is too late to make a difference? Well in the case of consoles anyway

 

[Mory Dunz]

Metroid Prime >>>>>> ?
F-Zero GX >>>>>>> ?
1080 >>>>> ?
Wave Race >>>>> ?
Luigi'S Mansion >>>>> ?
RE4 >>>>>> ?
RE0 >>>>>> ?
Viewtiful Joe >>>>> ?
Soul Calibur 2 >>>>> ?
Ikaruga >>>>> ?
WE6 >>>>>> ?

should I have to continue this havoc ?

You're missing the original conversation.

 

[michaelius]

2.) Third parties had a variety of responses to the systems, most choosing to be cautious but present, since they didn't sell much on the Wii, but they didn't want to totally miss out on the system if it was successful. Supporting was overwhelmingly multiplatform games that were already on 360/PS3 that generally looked the same as those versions, were sometimes late or inferior ports, and any use of the tablet was often either gimmicky or non-essential (which makes sense for multiplatform titles). The age of exclusives was over anyway so I'm not sure Nintendo could have expected much else anyway.

Third parties gave Wii U some of the biggest games they had that sell milions on other platforms: Fifa, Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, NFS and tons of smaller ports.

But there was absolutly no point to buy those games on Wii U since console itself offered no gains over ps3/x360.

If Wii U offered visible jump over previous generation gamers would be there - as record breaking PS4 sales shown market wanted new consoles really really bad.

 

[Scum]

He's learned his lesson...

...Right?

I should hope so. If the Nintendo Advance/Advance XL and the nNES show signs of the same problems that plague the WiiU and 3DS in their early years, then Nintendo will be truly doomed.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Mm, not really sure this is all that surprising either. Even after GG's release, BB has remained super popular in arcades over here.

At least as of Xrd's arcade release, the BB arcade scene is larger (and seems to skew much younger too).

Well deserved. It's more accessible, and IMO far more fun.

 

[test_account]

He's learned his lesson...

...Right?

II would say that the biggest factor is to create a product that is really interesting to a lot of people. Even if the WiiU's hardware were much better documented at launch (if its true that it was poorly documented to begin with), i dont think it would have changed much in the long run. The games might have had ran at a better performance technically, but i dont think that is a key factor to the poor sales.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Great debut for Smash, but those Wii U sales.... ugh.

Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3.... welp, good job Koei-Tecmo, good job. : /

Still, surprised by the split between PSV/3DS. It sold rather decently on the 3DS, was expecting worse tbh.

Did you guys expect it to triple the sales?

Lol.

so much negativity is toxic. Its following in the Vita's footsteps

Smash Bros underperformed a tad but still solid numbers.
Though Oof for Samurai Chronicles 3 and Guilty Gear
Pretty solid numbers for most everything else all things considered

Did better than the N64 release

Guilty gear doesnt usually do better than 150k LTD in japan so that isnt surprising sales at all

 

[TaiKH92]

The GOAT showing some steady legs:

17./14. [WIU] Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker <ADV> (Nintendo) {2014.11.13} (¥3.996) - 11.829 / 65.882 (-3%)

The true winner here is Captain Toad. Keep selling, my little friend!

HIs/ha legs

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Hmmm..I don't know. I still think there's room for them in Japan. Just not in the traditional sense. Besides, the toxic nature of the WiiU is a fault here and it doesn't help that it's probably too expensive for many.

Its 26,000 yen. You guys keep bringing up the Wii U as toxic.... Is the Vita toxic too? Because they're selling pretty similarly

I was expecting 300,000 for SSB as absolutel minimum not a bad debut, but quite disappointing for sure

Also, PS4 owners, GGXrd just 3.000 more than The Crew? Really? I know it's on PS3 ad well, but...really?

Your expectations were out of whack with reality

 

[hongcha]

You guys keep bringing up the Wii U as toxic.... Is the Vita toxic too? Because they're selling pretty similarly

Vita's YTD is more than double the Wii U's. So no, they aren't selling "similarly".

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Vita's YTD is more than double the Wii U's. So no, they aren't selling "similarly".

Vita his 2 million after 100 weeks on the market. Wii U hit 2 million after 104.

Same shit

If they do drop the price, expect it to happen not long before Golden Week &#8211; followed with bundles late in the year.

Here is why:
&#8226; Nintendo will hit their Wii U sales target for the FY by the end of Q1. They don't need to smash it &#8211; just to reach it. Therefore, they will not drop the price before April;
&#8226; In Japan, Nintendo has exhausted their bundling efforts for the type of audience they can reach at that price;
&#8226; During 2014, the 3DS had a large number of high profile releases, a hardware redesign, and a price drop. 2015 will be a weaker year for it;
&#8226; Nintendo has now released the majority of its best-selling franchises on Wii U (NSMB, Kart, Smash, 3d Mario, Wii Sports/Fit/Party) &#8211; they're already sitting on shelves. 2015 will be about moving this "evergreen" software;
&#8226; Although Nintendo has a fantastic lineup during 2015, most of these titles either have limited appeal, or are value-adding for existing hardware owners;
&#8226; As a side-note, console Zelda and Animal Crossing titles don't really push hardware in Japan, and one or both will likely launch at the very end of 2015.

Golden Week shows very similar sales to Christmas, and a price drop will be just the thing they need to bolster sales and lift the base number of weekly sales (if even slightly) for the remainder of the year.

Another possibility is a hardware redesign (cheaper components and/or no gamepad) at a reduced cost, but I imagine they'll probably just drop the price before they give it a facelift.

The reason you guys are always wrong is because you're jus trying to bolster sales when nintendo is trying to bolster their profits.

This is why you guys never predict anything that's right.

A cheaper WIi U doesnt make much sense for Nintendo here. The system already has a 26k yen offering and pretty much every game they announced at E3 is tied to the gamepad in some manner.

Even if the Wii U was a really successful console, Smash 3DS would've outsold Smash Wii U by a wiiide margin.

Nintendo knew that way before they launched the Wii U.

Its not just that. Pushing 3DS hardware is much more profitable than pushing out Wii U hardware. Putting the game on both means both systems get hardware pushed and its much cheaper too.

Western sales are also more important because of the exchange rate. So that works out just fine for Smash. Pushing more hardware in the west.
Software sales on both being great is just icing on the cake.

 

[king zell]

so LittleBigPlanet 3 didn't even hit the Top 30?

 

[vinnygambini]

Your expectations were out of whack with reality

That's what most people's expectations were.

Lower debut than Mario Kart 8, but should conveniently debut between 275-325k.

It's a disappointment - let's see how it's legs fare during the holiday season.

 

[Prelude.]

so LittleBigPlanet 3 didn't even hit the Top 30?

It released later.

 

[king zell]

It released later.

it was released on the 4th!

 

[StevieP]

Third parties gave Wii U some of the biggest games they had that sell milions on other platforms: Fifa, Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, NFS and tons of smaller ports.

But there was absolutly no point to buy those games on Wii U since console itself offered no gains over ps3/x360.

If Wii U offered visible jump over previous generation gamers would be there - as record breaking PS4 sales shown market wanted new consoles really really bad.

Hardware power is not why the wii u doesn't sell third party content. It's sorta like a reverse reason as to why family friendly content isn't selling on ps4 despite its userbase size

 

[Prelude.]

it was released on the 4th!

tfw you think it's november but it's december

 

[theprodigy]

Vita his 2 million after 100 weeks on the market. Wii U hit 2 million after 104.

hahaha Wii U is never going to have two years of 1 million+ sales in Japan though

 

[Takao]

so LittleBigPlanet 3 didn't even hit the Top 30?

Gonna have to wait for Dengeki for those figures, but yeah. I remember the first day sellthrough report for either LBP Vita or Karting having a comment about how Sony should stop releasing them in Japan.

PS3 : LittleBigPlanet ( SCE ) { 2008-10-30 } - 47,086 / 111,376
PS3 : LittleBigPlanet [PlayStation 3 the Best] ( SCE ) { 2009-09-03 } - 1,200 / 12,189
PSP : LittleBigPlanet Portable ( SCE ) { 2009-12-03 } - 4,400 / 20,148
PS3 : LittleBigPlanet 2 ( SCE ) { 2011-02-10 } - 24,736 / 47,506
PSV : LittleBigPlanet PS Vita ( SCE ) { 2012-09-20 } - 4,533 / 8,972
PS3 : LittleBigPlanet 2 [PlayStation 3 the Best] ( SCE ) { 2012-11-22 } - - / 2,849
PS3 : LittleBigPlanet Karting ( SCE ) { 2013-01-17 } - 3,640 / 3,640
PS3: LittleBigPlanet 3 (SCE) {2014-12-04} - <4.499
PS4: LittleBigPlanet 3 (SCE) {2014-12-04} - <4.499

 

[Fj0823]

Lets keep playing the Iwata game folks.

Zelda U will save the Wii U.

joking aside, and I know I will get Shit for this. The moment you have to re release a controller from 2 generations ago, because your current controller does not work as well with your "system seller" is the moment you know you suck at console design.

The sales reflect this, the Wii U was terribly designed, and as a result, its very unatractive.

Awaiting the "Smash can only truly be played with a GC controller" BS

 

[Shaanyboi]

Lets keep playing the Iwata game folks.

Zelda U will save the Wii U.

joking aside, and I know I will get Shit for this. The moment you have to re release a controller from 2 generations ago, because your current controller does not work as well with your "system seller" is the moment you know you suck at console design.

The sales reflect this, the Wii U was terribly designed, and as a result, its very unatractive.

Awaiting the "Smash can only truly be played with a GC controller" BS

Smash plays fine with a pro controller. Hell, I manage fine with the gamepad. I fail to see what point you're trying to make.

 

[Fj0823]

Smash plays fine with a pro controller. Hell, I manage fine with the gamepad. I fail to see what point you're trying to make.

There's 3 controller for the console, 3. And were not counting the Wiimote

this is not like move or kinect. They had to actually release 2 other controller options because the main controller is not comfortable enough for all their games.

I know it can be comfortable for you, its not even a real problem for me , but the fact that they re released a completely obsolete controller for 1 GAME. screams lack of confidence to me.

It feels like they're saying that the Wii U is not as good for smash as your beloved GC.

And that doesn't really help to promote the idea of the Wii U being an Upgrade.