Professor Beef
Banned
Why is it that the first response I see to people suggesting a more robust reporting system is always "PEOPLE WILL JUST MAKE FALSE REPORTS"? I highly, highly, highly doubt that false reports are as rampant as you may imagine.
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MIC: Overwatch players turn to Reddit to share their stories of Harrassment
- Thread starter EdibleKnife
- Start date
A Link to the Past
Banned
And many people grew up by ignoring it and keeping the anxiety and hurt bottled up, which caused them to lead unhappy lives overall. I had some bullies who only reacted more strongly to being ignored. Ignoring a problem causes the problem to fester.
demogorgon
Banned
but to be fair, historically people are kinder to each other right now then they ever were.
i mean less then 100 or so years ago women couldn't vote, minorities had to use separate bathrooms hell in some countries that still exists.
People act like their life is miserable because they got told to make a sandwhich by some 12 year old child, meanwhile in other countries there is real persecution. some people need a reality check IMO
Well, it's not the same, but you can easily find reports of people reporting stuff on youtube Just for da lulz or because they don't Luke the channel. I guess people are applying the same logic gere.
therealist
Member
Just mute everyone and/or don't communicate. Yeah you might be less likely to win a game with no communication but that's probably better than being tilted and playing terribly because you're getting harassed.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I've seen evidence that Blizzard also punishes people who abuse the report button in OW.
demogorgon
Banned
or you know, you could have just stood up for yourself.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I expect the platform to do a far better job of weeding out the dickheads online.
People like that and their apologists (people like you) are why I just don't use my mic on XBL.
And according to you that's the way it should be. Which is a shitty viewpoint.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I have, got beaten up.
Thanks for suggesting that victims of abuse deserve it because they didn't stand up for themselves though
Hey thanks for your opinion. How do you expect them to a better job? Voice recognition? That will take years to build, not to mention all the false reports that would come in when saying a particular word. They already handle text verbal abuse with warnings / temp bans and have future reward systems in the work for positive players. You can argue against me all you want.. but the only solution right now is to mute them and continue playing the game you enjoy. If you read through all my posts, I never said thats how it should be, i said this is a temporary solution until a more permanent one arrives. Next time try actually reading instead of assuming. People like you are why I have to make posts explaining the same thing over and over again.
Yes, and you know why? It's because people stood up and said "this thing you thought was okay? it's not okay". They didn't bring us to where we are by going on NeoGAF and telling everyone that you can't change what people do, only change how you react.
Is this the "starving children in Africa" argument? Because it looks like the "starving children in Africa" argument. Aren't there some "starving children in Africa" you should be saving, instead of bringing your unwanted, unproductive apathy into a discussion about the future of harassment in gaming culture? You need a little perspective I think.
That does not work all the time. In some cases, maybe, but in others you will just aggravate the bully even more. Kids get ticked off very easily.
Nydius
Member
This is Blizzard we're talking about here, best to temper those expectations.
Back in WoW, I remember the first three years when they actively did monitor the community and take action on reports. In my then-Alliance guild, we had a guy completely snap and go off on a 30 minute racist, sexist rant in Ironforge general and he got a 7 day vacation for violating ToS. I personally got a 72-hour timeout for getting in a spat with a guy while doing Netherwing Ledge dailies early in Burning Crusade.
But as soon as it got WAY popular and the active userbase skyrocketed the very first thing they cut was punishing players for toxic behavior. They wouldn't even really respond to reports, not even in clearly egregious cases where they had multiple people reporting. By the heydey of Wrath of the Lich King, the public community in Warcraft had turned into a completely toxic cesspool because there were no more repercussions for bad behavior.
Blizzard talks a big game about inclusiveness and community friendliness but they don't really seem to care about policing their games.
Mammoth Jones
Member
They've had years and billions of dollars to figure the shit out. They just don't because people like you generally accept it as the way it is. You deal with it the same way you deal with any community: Strong moderation tools.
No, you snidely excoriate posters for having the temerity to be outraged at sexual and racial harassment online. Congrats?
People like you are why harassment in online gaming so hand waved away.
While everybody is busy being triggered this guy posted the actual truth.
That explains their response to Gamergate reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally well.
A. This is their first FPS with built in voice chat. They've had less than a year since the game came out. Its still very new.
B. Ehh read that wrong. People get racially/sexually harassed, and I offered a simple temporary solution. I explained what blizzard is doing now and hopefully in the future to prevent it.
C. Sounds like you're just upset at losing in Overwatch, so you have to take it out here :/ Unfortunate really.
Very mature.
A Link to the Past
Banned
We're having a normal conversation, and people receive criticism as appropriate. Apologies that you struggle to handle yourself.
Mammoth Jones
Member
A. Blizzard has decades experience making online games. The genre is irrelevant.
B. Yea, glad you corrected that. But you offer no solution other than "meh no big deal don't be so sensitive when someone calls you rude shit every time you go online".
C. This is a childish jab for no particular reason other than being rude. Congrats for helping prove me point. You're a part of the problem.
You're complaining about verbal abuse over mics, yet this is their first game with built in voice chat I'm pretty sure.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Are you suggesting that Blizzard isn't capable of anticipating that a problem that occurs over text would occur over voice?
Mammoth Jones
Member
Wrong again. Voice chat was incorporated in Wow years ago.
And it was never used as much as its used in Overwatch. I played WoW for the longest time, no one used in game mics, and instead used 3rd party software such as mumble, ventrilo, teamspeak, etc.
A voice problem is MUCH harder to fix than text. You can easily view text logs and see what the person has said. If relying on voice software, you can easily get false bans for saying something in the wrong context, have a strong accent, or have a really bad microphone that might detect words you didn't even say. In fact if you use a potato mic, background noise or if someone in your house said something..can be detected and you'll be falsely banned.
It doesn't mean they should have solved it but don't try to hand wave mistakes by saying it's their first time. It doesn't matter if this is technically their first attempt or not, they don't exist in a vacuum and have decades of history and people with experience to learn from.
Mammoth Jones
Member
That was your claim. Your claim was that overwatch was their first game with in voice chat. Which is factually incorrect.
But that's besides the point. Harrasment in online gaming requires better solutions than snide one liners. These companies make enough scratch to engineer them. But would rather not spend the resources.
And guys like you make it easier to do that by putting the burden of responsibility of the person being harassed than the perpetrator of said harrasment.
I get it. You're articulating the way it is now. But my point is that's no longer sufficient in 2017. When online gaming was more niche in 1997 I could understand but not now.
On top of that they have experience dealing with toxic behavior since at least Wow.
They would certainly deserve to be racked over coals if they're not able to put 2 and 2 together.
There's also the alternative explanation that they simply don't care about it which would be inline with their past behavior.
There is no large competitive game out there that bans for things you say on the microphone. I don't play on console so I don't know how things work over there.. if you're using xbox services or psn.. but on PC, most games just ban you for things you type in chat.
LQX
Member
I have spent hundreds of hours in Overwatch and the first time I ever really saw harassment of another sex(man vs women) was actually last week. Everything was fine until a young lady started to talk and some guy just immediately started in at her. More often than that I encounter racism. Does not even matter if you open your mouth or not, the fact you are using a hero they do not like or they think you are not playing well enough is enough to spew hatred on you.
That said, for the most part Overwatch is a very pleasant experience. I hear kids, young girls and women all the time and it sort of brings a smile to my face as I have never experience that in any other game.
That said, for the most part Overwatch is a very pleasant experience. I hear kids, young girls and women all the time and it sort of brings a smile to my face as I have never experience that in any other game.
Mammoth Jones
Member
A Link to the Past
Banned
Bans are often not a first-time basis (and in fact even where bans are warranted they may not occur). If you get multiple reports, they'll look into it, and they will detect the legitimacy of it.
Poor hanzo not even gaf likes him.
Jokes aside, he is right, voice recognition is a looooong way before It cant be used for this kind of stuff, I've worked in a city project where we used mics and pcs to "hear" accidents and stuff like that, and well 80%~ of the time we got false positives, that looking for simple noises... the complexity of voice recognition is underrated in this thread.
Tons of different people with different accents with different volume... simply too complex to rely on that.
I've been harased a couple of times by tons of diferent reasons, sucking at my current character, my accent (im mexican), but sadly all you can do is report them and mute them.
It's not ok, and there should be a better solution for banning this toxic people, and the victims doesnt have the fault for being harrased and it's not wrong that they share their experience.
But the only way to "fix" it right now, is muting toxic people.
Jokes aside, he is right, voice recognition is a looooong way before It cant be used for this kind of stuff, I've worked in a city project where we used mics and pcs to "hear" accidents and stuff like that, and well 80%~ of the time we got false positives, that looking for simple noises... the complexity of voice recognition is underrated in this thread.
Tons of different people with different accents with different volume... simply too complex to rely on that.
I've been harased a couple of times by tons of diferent reasons, sucking at my current character, my accent (im mexican), but sadly all you can do is report them and mute them.
It's not ok, and there should be a better solution for banning this toxic people, and the victims doesnt have the fault for being harrased and it's not wrong that they share their experience.
But the only way to "fix" it right now, is muting toxic people.
demogorgon
Banned
I didn't say that. but your personal experience and overall defensive nature isn't the best objective look at things. People don't really start being wise in general until they hit their 30s. kids will be kids
A lot of competitive games actually do ban you for verbal abuse. That's why its a report option, and I've seen people banned from dota for it.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Well no, your response to "ignoring them often just makes it worse" is to suggest that I should have... not ignored it?
There is no "objective" look at bullying. You're talking about how people should approach bullying, and I have told you the consequences of such an approach.
Also, "kids will be kids" may as well be replaced with "blame the victims and ignore the problem." Bullying has, historically, been dealt with by tackling it head on, not by dismissing it as you are right now. It is also more a problem than ever with the Internet making kids more able to bully. Back in my day, once I left school, I was safe from bullying. My niece? She's in a generation where people organizing harassment campaigns online telling their schoolmates to kill themselves.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I get the feeling like this voice chat angle is only being looked at very narrowly by the defeatists in here.
In WoW if you get reported enough for your behavior, someone in Blizzard's pool of GMs will log into the game, find you and observe you without your knowledge. If they have seen enough, they are empowered to kick you out of the game and take action against your account, if deemed necessary.
User reports for abusive behavior will accumulate, and enough smoke should trigger a similar solution. They don't need to rely on some mythical algorithm that can find all the racism in a snipped of recorded audio; they can just peek into the game comms live and have a listen. If an account gets enough reports, it probably won't take very long, or much manpower, to find and root out these people in the same way. Blizzard ran an MMO with 12 million subscribers like this. They can handle Overwatch's toxicity.
In WoW if you get reported enough for your behavior, someone in Blizzard's pool of GMs will log into the game, find you and observe you without your knowledge. If they have seen enough, they are empowered to kick you out of the game and take action against your account, if deemed necessary.
User reports for abusive behavior will accumulate, and enough smoke should trigger a similar solution. They don't need to rely on some mythical algorithm that can find all the racism in a snipped of recorded audio; they can just peek into the game comms live and have a listen. If an account gets enough reports, it probably won't take very long, or much manpower, to find and root out these people in the same way. Blizzard ran an MMO with 12 million subscribers like this. They can handle Overwatch's toxicity.
Yes verbal abuse; not voice detection banning. You can also report verbal abuse in overwatch.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
You don't get banned tho. You get silenced.
I know because someone whisper chatted me to call me a gay slur. :/
Deleted him right there. But still trolled in game.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Not sure why Blizzard isn't actively banning people for this shit. I reported some players as well for racist comments, but I don't think anything happened.
demogorgon
Banned
Well TBH i feel you need a little perspective. and I don't mean it in a disrespectful way but i have to ask. how old are you?
Perspective changes as you get older. things that were huge deals when you were younger are no longer huge deals. like you are 3 and you drop your ice cream on the ground you probably cry. if you are 15 and drop your ice cream you throw it out and get another one. it's not worth crying over.
The idea that people need "protecting" and "safe spaces" is a joke. at least from words. physical harm is a different story. but there is no physical harm happening in online gaming. just immature words from immature people.
Sometimes people need to take care of them selves. That's how it works. if everyone expects people do to everything for them, before you know it, we have a bunch of people who can't be self sufficient. If you can't take a 12 year old saying something stupid to you, how will you be able to take a career. you think jobs are easy. you don't think there is high pressure and yelling and cursing in board meetings. I can tell you that in fact there is. I've been in some pretty heated "meetings" myself. that's life. We can't all live in safe bubbles.
true, but again this is kids we are talking about. kids are immature. you don't see 60 year olds bullying each other.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Not getting ice cream
Being beaten up
Being called faggot, sissy, retard, etc.
One of these things is not like the other
Being beaten up
Being called faggot, sissy, retard, etc.
One of these things is not like the other
Now now, those things only hurt when you're a kid. And kids will be kids. And. Err. Get, uh, older? I dunno anymore man.
demogorgon
Banned
my response was to ignore people online. that's what we are talking about. abuse in online gaming. there is no threat of physical assault. You must and block the player and it's over. and you move on.
It's also as i pointed out earlier this "mid generation" the one where kids grew up with the internet but never were told how to behave on it. Now in school and I know this because my kids learn it in school, they have tablets, laptops, social media pages (the schools internal social media site. they post projects and homework up and comment on each others stuff. They aren't allowed to troll and bully each other. so when they grow up they'll know how to behave properly. And as a parent I have access to it and I can see what my kids post and what kids post to them. and it's extremely civil and polite. Their generation is gonna grow up and have a different internet then we have. because all the trolls now will have matured out of doing it.
Then we should work towards making better work environments.
Not call others ''sensitive''
Not boast about how much discrimination we can take.
This is really getting tiring.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Uh, the bullying situation is not getting better, I have no idea where you're getting that. We just saw a cafeteria chanting "build that wall" when Trump won, and we're seeing bullies given more powerful bullying tools than they ever had.
Protip: Any improvement to bullying is the result of people acknowledging bullying and pushing back against it, not saying "lawl, kids am I right?" The latter sentiment explicitly is something that only makes bullying worse.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
As I was saying. Especially when we're talking about millions of people.
But apparently for some such a thing can be resolved 'with no trouble at all' as if there's a magical switch that can be flipped and everything will be dandy.
Blizzards been completely shit about policing their community since the D2 days. They don't give a fuck even when they try to act like they do only by offloading it to volunteer CMs or doing dumb shit like their reporting/silence feature in WoW which is just 'if the community reports al ot then it'll auto do it because we dont want to dedicate more of our company to actually combatting the shit attitudes that go on in our games'