You're still deliberately missing the point because you can't answer tough questions lol.
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MIC: Overwatch players turn to Reddit to share their stories of Harrassment
- Thread starter EdibleKnife
- Start date
You're still deliberately missing the point because you can't answer tough questions lol.
At this point it's clear he doesn't care about it, that was apparent from the beginning.
So he's just going to keep deflecting.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Strakt seems to be of a mind that the only ways to approach this are to have a perfect solution or to have no solution at all.
Theres no point in arguing with people who clearly have problems outside this thread that gang up. Sorry that you've been hurt by randoms on Overwatch or in other games, but you're no different from the hundreds and thousands affected by it. You know what they do? They mute and report until blizzard comes up with a solution. Sorry but I have no sympathy for either of you nor the racists in this thread.
More like a temporary solution until Blizzard creates a new system that handles suspensions, bans, etc.
It's the best kind of argument if you're for the status quo and have absolutely no issue with the problem in question.
People getting murdered by law enforcement? If you can't make sure that there's going to be no crime going forward we shouldn't impede law enforcement at all.
What will I do without your sympathy?
You have showed time and again that this is not a problem for you and this isn't even a problem worth discussing so why are you still here?
We know you don't have sympathy. Like, we established that 20 pages ago, dude. And you're not sorry, you literally contradict yourself within two sentences. So don't say it.
I, however, do pity you.
Not to play devils advocate but studies are a dangerous thing. Just watch sweden. Recent studies have shown that 85% of all their crimes is committed by immigrants. Thats not a study you want someone like to Trump to hear because it just leads to even more hatred. Studies in general that talk about these sensitive issues often only get half the picture and we end up with the hatred we have today.
On topic, there is a severe problem and ofc the bullying that women and our coloured brothers and sisters gets is a million times worse. When someone is an ass to me in the game they usually either call me a noob or they want to rape my mother (again women beeing attacked)
When its a coloured player or a woman they harass its either racial slurs or extreme sexism. You never hear them call a female a noob or call her out for a bad pick, no no its straight down below the belt and threatening with rape etc.
Its horrible and should lead to permabans.
Roxkis_ii
Member
What would be the middle ground?
Pity me if you want, but I won't carry around and hold on to that negative energy from toxic players like most people in this thread do. Thats worse than pity.
It's better to use studies than nothing at all.
If studies show that, there's either a problem with the situation or the study.
Either way it's better than talking out of your ass like you know something.
That can be explained pretty simply, it's simply normal behavior as far at this industry is concerned.
They clamped down on cheaters ruining fun for people, they could do something if they saw this as a problem.
You've already used that case, change your game a little it's going to get boring.
This is not a contest to determine who has it worse. Why do you view it as such?
All we're saying is: Just 'cause you can shrug off whatever has been thrown your way, does not mean everyone can. Like, if you're gonna say 'I'm against harassment but...' You're kinda approaching it wrong.
Duh. That's just because they're weak-willed.
I completely agree with you, my main point was just that we need studies to be done correctly and not used for the wrong thing. My english is not super good. Sorry if it seemed like I wanted us to not use studies or science and just talk out of our asses, that was definately not the point I wanted to make.
I am not sure they know its a issue, because those assholes who act like mentioned above are also their most vocal playerbase.
But this thread on reddit is a start, and I think we all need to be far more vocal about this. We as players should definately not tolerate said behaviour.
joecanada
Member
I hate that it always comes back to the government but people should have a basic right to go about their lives without facing harassment. The only way to fix this in video games apparently is to actually force the companies to have a complaint system with follow up like most companies are required to do. Then if they break that policy/system they should be held accountable or liable. So say you submit a report especially with video evidence, they should be required to at least look into it.
The internet is way ahead of traditional business for better or worse but something like if a woman was sexually harassed in my business and I just stood around doing nothing and said "hey we don't guarantee the quality of your actual experience here" , I expect that I would be held accountable at least in some way.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Effort made by Blizzard to curb the behavior. A perfect solution is impossible, and to some people, if perfection can't be achieved, why bother? If there will be any people who behave like this with any solution, why bother?
I will. You have wasted so much thread space.
Thats fine, but your opinion is invalid to me. The reason people are probably toxic to you in game... well i don't even need to explain.. your discriminatory posts says everything about you.
Honestly why should videogame companies not be held to the same standards as other companies. I think your solution is the only thing that would truly change things.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Did you actually claim that someone was to blame for the harassment they received lol
"They were asking for it"
Yea judging by their recent posts on how all white straight males are toxic, they probably deserve what they got. I wouldnt be surprised at all.
I get what you mean, my point is that rejection of studies on principles is actually worse than using bad data.
I mean at least if you use bad data you have a basis for being wrong or not.
No kidding
I will. You have wasted so much thread space.
The most prolific poster in this thread is a guy who's too high and mighty to even consider that there's even a problem.
"There's no rape problem, it's only sluts who dress provocatively"
You could make some vids on youtube, you could get pretty famous peddling BS.
A Link to the Past
Banned
What post was made that accused all white straight men of being toxic?
Also, could you clarify with a list of abuse types that are deserved to someone who, in theory, made such a claim?
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
I tend to avoid any form of chat unless I'm with friends. Can't be bothered with the nonsense. Only exception in recent years has been MMORPGs and that's only because FFXIV has an insanely nice community. I wish more games were like that one in terms of being predominantly super friendly people.
What what? So they deserve beeing threatened with rape etc?
A couple pages back. Once again you are only hearing their side of the story.. and considering how the posts have been "i assume many of the toxic players are white , straight, and male" i wouldn't be surprised if that particular person was toxic to them first.
Who said anything about rape? I simply said one user made a post claiming all white male straight gamers are toxic, but I wouldn't be surprised if that person was toxic to them first. People can always ask for sympathy on the internet, but with a post like the one they made discriminating, I highly doubt its the case here.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Well, let's consider a couple of points.
Firstly, I am only hearing your side of the story, I have no idea what the other person posted, so I have no idea what you're getting at there. I'm also assuming without evidence that such a post was ever made.
Secondly, judging by what I saw skimming the thread, your posts have been antagonizing people and have been fairly apathetic to issues of harassment, so if such a response was made to you, it implies that the poster would not inherently make such a statement if not for provocation.
EDIT: Thirdly, do you think that most people who face harassment on games like Overwatch were asking for it?
Would it be better to be idealistic while offering alternatives for it now?
Zero hatred is a beautiful idea, whilst unfortunately unrealistic. I have praise for anyone fighting that fight. But what's the timeframe here? How long do the people getting abused have to sit and wait until zero hatred kicks in?
We should be offering ways to help, giving advice on how to deal with the abuse, as well as preaching about how ridiculous it is that this kind of thing still exists.
To dismiss Strakts input is like fighting against your own team. You've got the same ideals, just from a different perspective. Be careful not to resort to a similar toxicity as the one you're actually fighting against, because that just contradicts what we're supposed to representing.
Zero hatred is a beautiful idea, whilst unfortunately unrealistic. I have praise for anyone fighting that fight. But what's the timeframe here? How long do the people getting abused have to sit and wait until zero hatred kicks in?
We should be offering ways to help, giving advice on how to deal with the abuse, as well as preaching about how ridiculous it is that this kind of thing still exists.
To dismiss Strakts input is like fighting against your own team. You've got the same ideals, just from a different perspective. Be careful not to resort to a similar toxicity as the one you're actually fighting against, because that just contradicts what we're supposed to representing.
Sseklebeast
Member
I usually avoid online games for this reason but 20 years ago I saw this when playing Quake 2 online.
One guy in particular stuck out as his name was ikillni*****. The worst part was that he played on a lot of servers i played on and no one seemed to care that he had that name and that he would say hateful things in chat.
One time I mentioned I'm Puerto Rican and then came in the flood of shit talk that was aimed at Mexicans of all people. Imagine if I mentioned that I'm gay too? Idiots.
One guy in particular stuck out as his name was ikillni*****. The worst part was that he played on a lot of servers i played on and no one seemed to care that he had that name and that he would say hateful things in chat.
One time I mentioned I'm Puerto Rican and then came in the flood of shit talk that was aimed at Mexicans of all people. Imagine if I mentioned that I'm gay too? Idiots.
So when women are harassed with sexist call outs and threats for merely playing a game, they should ignore it and keep quiet, otherwise they're adding to the negativity, there weak, and they aren't fit for the Internet. When someone talks about white male privilege, suddenly they're fair game for harassment.
Dat male fragility.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Strakts has offered untenable solutions, which have included "sit and wait." This is a big part of why they are being criticized as much as they are.
Oh, I did not even think about that. It really does feel like Strakts is employing a double standard and is behaving differently in such a situation than they expect other people who face direct harassment for who they are are being asked to do.
Garcia el Gringo
Member
The topic of this thread is not about vanilla, equal opportunity harassment everyone can experience - the OP quoted an article of anecdotes of sexual harassment women faced playing Overwatch. People are different and minorities can get targeted abuse.
Maybe the plot was lost in this particular string of replies, but it reached an ironic point on the bolded.
He's still mad about these posts:
MKIL65 said:
And now Strakt will forever regurgitate the same point about me being racist.
Like I said, i have plenty of female friends that i sympathize for. They aren't weak minded though, so they can handle pressing the mute and report button. You can keep posting the same thing about women over and over again.. the fact is male, females, anyone who gets treated with toxic behavior should press the mute button and continue playing the game they enjoy. Why make a bigger problem of it? Where does that get you? While its not okay to accept that type of behavior, its going to happen regardless bc of the type of people out there and the non existent system blizzard has in place. Mute and move on. pretty simple if you ask me.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Well firstly, I'd say that a person shouldn't presume - and in frankly a condescending way - that the people you're referring to are necessarily white guys. Non-white people and women can be jerks too
Secondly, that post doesn't seem to say that all straight white men are toxic, so I'm a little confused where Strakts gets that idea from.
Because the ability to play without having to mute player(s) in many of the games you play should be a fundamental aspect of Overwatch. Everyone faces harassment, but white people don't get called out for being white, men don't get called out for being men, cis people don't get called out for being cis, and straight people don't get called out for being straight. The reason why people presume toxic players to be in one or more of these categories is because the more boxes you tick of these, the more likely you are to be apathetic to toxic behavior, as you are not a person who is targeted for who you are in games like these.
No we do not.
And i don't accept your false equivilancy. Calling out someone side-stepping harassment with 'toughen up' in a direct manner has nothing to do with harassing women online. But hey, 'both sides' rite?
| Praxis |
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
Even that post does not say all, and it makes what I consider to be a valid hypothesis of a lot of toxicity in online games, where you are more likely to be apathetic to toxic behavior the less you are targeted by toxic behavior due to who you are.
Professor Beef
Banned
I also made that post (which I explained to finalflame later, who also explained his position to me) because of the amount of sheer ignorance that those three were displaying. I assumed that so much of that ignorance must've came from a place of privilege.
Its going to happen though whether anyone likes it or not. I solo q'ed 3 seasons and had to mute players left and right due to their toxicity. It didn't stop me from achieving Grandmaster. If you mute the toxic person and spread positive energy to the rest of the team, you can play the game and still win. Theres not much else to it, unless you like feeding off negative behavior and thinking about it day and night to affect your real life mood.
Yeah, couldn't find it.
That's my post, and I fully stand by it. I don't believe I've said anything wrong.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It could also be that these are people who experience it on a fairly regular basis, and who view a game like Overwatch as, in a perfect world, a form of escapism from the abuse they receive in real life (only to face that very same abuse in the games that they enjoy). You make major assumptions when you act like this kind of harassment is limited to a video game.
Undead Hero
Member
Not like this would affect me, as a white male, but this is part of why I only use voice chat with my friends. My girlfriend doesn't use chat at all when she plays.
Doing rando raids in Destiny is enough of a reminder that I don't want to talk to most people playing online games.
Doing rando raids in Destiny is enough of a reminder that I don't want to talk to most people playing online games.
Then Overwatch shouldn't be the game they come to escape real life problems. We all know overwatch , league, and dota have some of the most toxic communities due to their extremely large player bases. No matter how hard you try to sway people to be positive, there will ALWAYS be a toxic person who hates life or is having a bad day so they take it out on others. Any huge multiplayer competitive game has this, and i don't see it ever changing unless they implement a new system.. thats why the temporary solution is to mute and report until they do come out with one.
Victim Blaming.
A Link to the Past
Banned
"If you don't wanna be harassed, play a different game."
A player should not have to avoid a game that they like because they are abused, no more than a person should avoid a bar because they are abused there.
You come into a game with 25 million players, you expect every single one of them to be non toxic?
A Link to the Past
Banned
I expect that people's response be to put pressure on Blizzard to curb it, not to say "why are you even playing the product you purchased?"
Zen_Arcade
Banned
What he's suggesting seems pretty reasonable. He's saying since no one at these companies is doing enough to curb this behavior, and you can't control the actions and words of others, the best course of action at the moment is to either mute them and move on or tell them off.
He's not saying this is the only thing people should be doing to curb this kind of behavior, he's not saying that what's happening is alright, and he's not saying that women should have to deal with it. He's saying the reality of the situation is that RIGHT NOW they DO have to deal with it. And since the only actions and emotions you can control in life are your own, that people should be doing one of the two suggestions listed above, because those are the two most likely to get the people who are fucking with you to stop fucking with you.
That doesn't mean it's right, or that it's fair, just that unfortunately at the moment it's the most realistic way to get this type of behavior to stop effecting you.
You are, you're both abolishing this kind of behaviour, but one of you is saying, "We need to stop it at it's core" whilst the other is saying, "Whilst not ideal, this is how the victim HAS to deal with it in the present".
So yes you are on the same side, because the other side is the sexists and the racists etc.