Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

XSX hasn't seemed more available in the US. Drops at major retailers have seemed further apart over the last few months. The ratio of XSS/XSX units they sell is going to have a major impact on the sales number in dollars.

I've seen more PS Direct drops than Xbox stock availability notifications if we're being honest, when looking at sources like Wario's twitter in recent weeks.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Bethesda is part of Xbox man, what are you talking about, they make money the exact same way now.

No they don't lol

They're a subsidary. They have their own financials that they report.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I'm sorry but this is an excuse, just to show a 3% decline. They either haven't met Series X demand or demand for it has fallen. There is no scenario where:

"They've been more readily available... Still a ton of demand, but Sony and MS are able to produce more now and actually get them onto shelves."

Would make sense.
Catching up with demand and Series X being more readily available would imply an increase in revenue but that hasn't happened because Series S hasn't had supply problems to begin with. So with a 11% decrease it would imply they
A) haven't met demand of series X or
B) demand for the console decreased

Seeing as he is saying they are more readily available but with a 11% decrease in sales it means demand has dropped.

XSX supply has been dreadful in Q2. Only May was somewhat okay iirc. So no, they haven't met the Series X demand, obviously. So no, demand hasn't dropped.

 

[nominedomine]

They're a subsidary. They have their own financials that they report.

All folded into the gaming division report that is being discussed here. If they had games or not is irrelevant, neither did MS.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

MS doesn't need to publish any games to generate a lot of revenue.

Bethesda does

Tell that to the shareholders. "Our company is making a lot of money, but we have this division that isn't making much money"

 

[Slicker than your average]

They're massively outcompeting everyone in a lot of their subdivisions (for example, cloud), and yet they don't release any detailed numbers. Yes, that's exactly how they roll.

How are they outperforming everyone if they don't release numbers, oh wait your crystal ball as per usual.
You're the kind of poster who says x multiplatform game sold better on Xbox over PS digitally when there's a 20/80 split physically even though we can't see those digital numbers. You literally make shit up all the time lol.

 

[Pallas]

Honestly I’m surprised it’s not a bigger decrease, considering supply & demand and a very bleak 2022 thus far, but the series S/X consoles, despite the decline are selling pretty well when available.

I’m glad Gamepass is growing, and it’ll be interesting to see how Sony and Nintendo fairs. I think they will probably do better but I would not be completely shocked if
they’re in the decline as well.

Also the concern trolling, some of you will have to wait another day if you want Xbox to die. This ain’t it.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Tell that to the shareholders. "Our company is making a lot of money, but we have this division that isn't making much money"

Shareholders don't care lol

 

[Three]

Ignore the 3% cause its just made up numbers, i was just proving it's mathematically possible if they haven't sold as many Series X as previously, I do think demand for the S has been met and probably has declined YoY. I am less sure about the Series X.

but the only way you were proving that was the case was by contradicting the other persons point that these consoles are more readily available than previous quarters.

I dont know how it is in the US but i have never seen a XSX or PS5 on a store shelf. When i was selling my 980ti to the local computer exchange, i saw someone bring in a XSX to sell, that was literally the first time i have seen a XSX in the flesh (and it wa gone by the next day).
Fact is even if its a bit easier to get a XSX in the US, its very easy to buy an XSS. XSS sales will be vastly better than XSX over this last quarter.

This report is global numbers for the entire company. It's always been easy to get a Series S even in previous quarters that hasn't really changed.

XSX hasn't seemed more available in the US. Drops at major retailers have seemed further apart over the last few months. The ratio of XSS/XSX units they sell is going to have a major impact on the sales number in dollars.

That's true but in that case you are saying Series X has been harder to come across globally than last quarter. I don't think this is the case at all though.
The person I replied to was trying to say availability increased too while implying demand was the same even with a 11% decline. To me demand/spending has decreased with the economy. Then you get Bernd being sad about xbox negative news.

 

[Ozriel]

This whole celebrating MAU people peddle is just a meaningless number people use to shelters themselves.

Actually, you couldn’t be further from the truth. A massive part of MS future strategy is wrapped up in Gamepass, and as a result it’s far more important to gauge how the service is doing than consoles sales numbers that’s fast become an inaccurate metric now that Xbox is PC, Cloud and Console.

MAUs are VERY important to MS shareholders. Considered an extremely important metric to services with subscriptions.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Are you implying that MS output was good in the last quarter? I don't get the point at all, so what if Bethesda didn't have much, neither did MS and that's how they got the results that they got. It can't be ignored that a $7B publisher was folded into Xbox this past year.

Weird comparison. Xbox makes money off its platform fees, no matter if it releases anything. Zenimax makes money by releasing games.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

XSX supply has been dreadful in Q2. Only May was somewhat okay iirc. So no, they haven't met the Series X demand, obviously. So no, demand hasn't dropped.

An XSX has been far easier to come by than a PS5. I've actually seen stores have an XSX in stock. Aside from seeing a dude walk out of my local Walmart with a PS5, I have never seen on in the wild. MS deserves a ton of credit for paying to prioritize chip making that enabled them to a have a period of stock during the easter weekend.

 

[sainraja]

The best buy link doesn't show available to me and only Walmart has stock at retail price in your first link (and MS's website but they ship out in batches).

I don't think that qualifies as "pretty good" availability.

It shows as available to me.

Also, here is a picture that I took from a Best Buy near me (and I believe they had more in the back):

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

No they don't lol

All folded into the gaming division report that is being discussed here. If they had games or not is irrelevant, neither did MS.

It is relevent if Bethesda has games because once again that's how they generate revenue.

 

[nominedomine]

Tell that to the shareholders. "Our company is making a lot of money, but we have this division that isn't making much money"

But that is exactly what is going on here. The assumption that management and shareholder interests are always aligned is a misconception.

In the past there was pressure from the shareholders to get rid of the underperforming gaming division because it wasn't performing well, MS leadership believes in it so that's why they make sure to to frame it the way they do.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Shareholders don't care lol

How do you tell me you know nothing about business and the market without telling me you know nothing about business?!

 

[Bernd Lauert]

How are they outperforming everyone if they don't release numbers, oh wait your crystal ball as per usual.

They release revenue numbers, that's it. They don't release profits, they don't release any other metrics like user numbers. Just revenue. So the same as with Xbox division.

You're the kind of poster who says x multiplatform game sold better on Xbox over PS digitally when there's a 20/80 split physically even though we can't see those digital numbers.

And I was correct, once the UK guy incorporated the digital numbers in his reports. So not sure what your point is.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

How do you tell me you know nothing about business and the market without telling me you know nothing about business?!

Trust me, they don't give a shit about Bethesda.

 

[Three]

XSX supply has been dreadful in Q2. Only May was somewhat okay iirc. So no, they haven't met the Series X demand, obviously. So no, demand hasn't dropped.

Not sure where you are but are you seriously trying to imply series X stock last quarter (April/May/June) was worse than the previous quarter? I have a very hard time believing that. Especially when people are saying they are more readily available and you have to contradict them.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

In the past there was pressure from the shareholders to get rid of the underperforming gaming division because it wasn't performing well, MS leadership believes in it so that why they make sure to to frame it the way they do.

And since then, the gaming division basically doubled its revenue, and went from a medium tier failure with Xbone to the best selling Xbox ever with the Series. I get that you're stuck in the past but you gotta wake up and move on.

 

[Mod of War: Remastered]

What is the point of these threads if not to focus on numbers? To blindly cheer MS's PR framing?

It's also funny that for some reason the only numbers that matter are the ones MS makes public, fair, it's hard to discuss numbers we don't have. But then if a metric they previously used to signal that their gaming division was doing well like quarterly growth or increase in service revenue don't go their way then it also doesn't matter...


edit: A mod deleted my post where I was commenting on the quarterly decaling what is going on here? You getting paid or something to suppress information that might make MS look bad? How silly.

Your post was trolling so it was deleted. Stop being so emotionally invested.

 

[adamsapple]

It shows as available to me.

Also, here is a picture that I took from a Best Buy near me (and I believe they had more in the back):

Not a single big box retailer (Target, BB, Walmart, even costco) has had them in stock in a 100 mile range of my zip code, so either that's a big exception or the consoles the picture would have been sold within minutes of the picture being taken if I were to guess.

 

[Chukhopops]

edit: A mod deleted my post where I was commenting on the quarterly decaling what is going on here? You getting paid or something to suppress information that might make MS look bad? How silly.

You should create a live thread to share your thoughts about this injustice imo.

Shareholders don't care lol

They may care if the gaming division was actually losing money but we know it was already making 2.2bn profit in 2019*, out of a 40% lower revenue than today.

Anyone who believes MS gaming division is losing money today needs to consider a reconversion into the circus industry.

*excluding hardware

 

[JohnnyFootball]

But that is exactly what is going on here. The assumption that management and shareholder interests are always aligned is a misconception.

In the past there was pressure from the shareholders to get rid of the underperforming gaming division because it wasn't performing well, MS leadership believes in it so that why they make sure to to frame it the way they do.

Yes, but for how long? Shareholders are not going to sit by and allow the gaming division to be a money sink. They will need to see continued growth, which they are seeing at the moment largely due to the dirt cheap $1 conversions, which MS, at some point, will have to end. In the long run they need people to pay the $14.99 a month for it to remain viable. Is that realistic with a recession happening and many other subscription services losing subscribers? I remain skeptical.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Not sure where you are but are you seriously trying to imply series X stock last quarter (April/May/June) was worse than the previous quarter? I have a very hard time believing that. Especially when people are saying they are more readily available and you have to contradict them.

They've been more readily available for the past couple of weeks. Before that, there was almost nothing.

 

[nominedomine]

And since then, the gaming division basically doubled its revenue, and went from a medium tier failure with Xbone to the best selling Xbox ever with the Series. I get that you're stuck in the past but you gotta wake up and move on.

Wow, impressive number, they doubled their revenue?

Where exactly?




Wait, were you just lying to me? Can I lie too?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You should create a live thread to share your thoughts about this injustice imo.

They may care if the gaming division was actually losing money but we know it was already making 2.2bn profit in 2019, out of a 40% lower revenue than today.

Anyone who believes MS gaming division is losing money today needs to consider a reconversion into the circus industry.

Just for context, that $2.2bn number is without hardware, which is always a loss it seems. But on the other hand, Xbox sold barely any hardware in 2019 (worst Xbox year since a long time ago), so that number won't be that big.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Wow, impressive number, they doubled their revenue?

Where exactly?

Damn you got me, they didn't double it, they almost doubled it. Still the best selling Xbox ever

 

[sainraja]

Not a single big box retailer (Target, BB, Walmart, even costco) has had them in stock in a 100 mile range of my zip code, so either that's a big exception or the consoles the picture would have been sold within minutes of the picture being taken if I were to guess.

I am definitely starting to see the system in stock more now so I dunno. But yes, I was surprised when I saw they had that much available to buy out the door. I texted someone who had been interested in getting it (but they had already picked up a Series S and from what he told me, he chose not to buy the X given how much time he spends gaming).

 

[reksveks]

How do you tell me you know nothing about business and the market without telling me you know nothing about business?!

I don't think they care enough to ask too many questions about it. If ABK closes then they might start asking more questions in the shareholders meeting. There is bigger and more important divisions at the moment.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You should create a live thread to share your thoughts about this injustice imo.

They may care if the gaming division was actually losing money but we know it was already making 2.2bn profit in 2019, out of a 40% lower revenue than today.

Anyone who believes MS gaming division is losing money today needs to consider a reconversion into the circus industry.

Honestly If I was a shareholder wouldn't even care if the division as a whole was losing money. I'm invested in bloody meta lol.

Bottom line though, the company is still growing in the double digits and they're high margin cash flow monsters. As long as they keep that up they can branch out and spend the money however they want.

 

[Three]

They've been more readily available for the past couple of weeks. Before that, there was almost nothing.

Let me put it this way, availability was much better in April/May/June than January/February/March. You can argue against that to high heaven rather than admit console demand (and spending in general) has decreased but it simply is the truth.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Let me put it this way availability was much better in April/May/June than January/February/March. You can argue that to high heaven rather than admit console demand (and spending in general) has decreased but it simply is the truth.

Nobody cares about January, February and March. This is a YoY comparison. We're talking compared to April, May and June 2021.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Yes, but for how long? Shareholders are not going to sit by and allow the gaming division to be a money sink. They will need to see continued growth, which they are seeing at the moment largely due to the dirt cheap $1 conversions, which MS, at some point, will have to end. In the long run they need people to pay the $14.99 a month for it to remain viable. Is that realistic with a recession happening and many other subscription services losing subscribers? I remain skeptical.

Meanwhile, the shareholders:

Profit go up? Me happy. Ooga booga.

People are really overthinking this.

 

[reksveks]

Honestly If I was a shareholder wouldn't even care if the division as a whole was losing money. I'm invested in bloody meta lol.

Bottom line though, the company is still growing in the double digits and they're high margin cash flow monsters. As long as they keep that up they can branch out and spend the money however they want.

all about that Teams and cloud growth.

 

[Slicker than your average]

They release revenue numbers, that's it. They don't release profits, they don't release any other metrics like user numbers. Just revenue. So the same as with Xbox division.

And I was correct, once the UK guy incorporated the digital numbers in his reports. So not sure what your point is.

You're not correct if you actually think any multiplatform game sells better on Xbox over PS including digital. The point is you make stuff up (like this).

 

[Chukhopops]

Just for context, that $2.2bn number is without hardware, which is always a loss it seems. But on the other hand, Xbox sold barely any hardware in 2019 (worst Xbox year since a long time ago), so that number won't be that big.

Correct, I edited the post. 2019 was the tail end of last gen so I doubt they lost much on HW during that period between the low volumes and cheaper components.

Honestly If I was a shareholder wouldn't even care if the division as a whole was losing money. I'm invested in bloody meta lol.

Bottom line though, the company is still growing in the double digits and they're high margin cash flow monsters. As long as they keep that up they can branch out and spend the money however they want.

I think MS wouldn’t leave the gaming market even if they weren’t making profit, simply because it would give too much free space to another competitor like Amazon or Apple.

But they don’t have to worry about that since they aren’t losing money.

 

[Three]

Nobody cares about January, February and March. This is a YoY comparison. We're talking compared to April, May and June 2021.

You clearly have trouble reading charts then. Are you seriously trying to suggest stock in April May June 2022 was worse than April May June 2021? There was no 11% decline YoY.

 

[Stuart360]

Let me put it this way, availability was much better in April/May/June than January/February/March. You can argue against that to high heaven rather than admit console demand (and spending in general) has decreased but it simply is the truth.

Three let me just ask you this, and its not soley directed at you, but you and others are going in hard with this, and i wouldnt expect anything less, but what are you going to to say if Sony also reports a similar decline?, and then later on when we get Nintendo;s data, Nintendo also show a similar decline?
I'm just interested what your take will be on it becuae comparing to last year where we were deep in a pandemic, and to this quarter where the world is about to go into a recession and covid is a thing of the past, i honestly will be surprised if all of the big 3 have not shown some kind of decline compared to last year.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You're not correct if you actually think any multiplatform game sells better on Xbox over PS including digital. The point is you make stuff up (like this).

They do, shooters in particular. Always talking relative to the install base, of course.

 

[Three]

Three let me just ask you this, and its not soley directed at you, but you and others are going in hard with this, and i wouldnt expect anything less, but what are you going to to say if Sony also reports a similar decline?, and then later on when we get Nintendo;s data, Nintendo also show a similar decline?
I'm just interested what your take will be on it becuae comparing to last year where we were deep in a pandemic, and to this quarter where the world is about to go into a recession and covid is a thing of the past, i honestly will be surprised if all of the big 3 have not shown some kind of decline compared to last year.

The same thing and I fully expect them to because it's clear the economy has been bad and spending has decreased. I wouldn't live in cloud cuckoo land like Bernd where I pretend stock hasn't got better and demand is as high as ever.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You clearly have trouble reading charts then. Are you seriously trying to suggest stock in April May June 2022 was worse than April May June 2021? There was no 11% decline YoY.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Stock was terrible in Q2 '22. Microsoft even warned about how terrible it's gonna be in their Q1 '22 report.

 

[Stuart360]

The same thing and I fully expect them to because it's clear the economy has been bad and spending has decreased. I wouldn't live in cloud cuckoo land like Bernd where I pretend stock hasn't got better and demand is as high as ever.

Well exactly my point, and what you said is true. So why are you and others going in so hard to try and make out there arent a reason for the decline, and its soley down to demand not being there anymore?.
You see what i'm saying?

 

[Three]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Stock was terrible in Q2 '22. Microsoft even warned about how terrible it's gonna be in their Q1 '22 report.

This is Q4 buddy lets keep with the financial year. You think stock in Q4' 22 was worse than Q4' 21?

Question for you then how was Q4 22 hardware sales higher than Q4 21?

You're making shit up as you go along.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

This is Q4 buddy lets keep with the financial year. You think stock in Q4' 22 was worse than Q4' 21?

Question for you then how was Q4 22 hardware sales higher than Q4 21?

You're making shit up as you go along.

What are you talking about? Hardware sales are down 11%.

 

[adamsapple]

Honestly If I was a shareholder wouldn't even care if the division as a whole was losing money. I'm invested in bloody meta lol.

Bottom line though, the company is still growing in the double digits and they're high margin cash flow monsters. As long as they keep that up they can branch out and spend the money however they want.

Daddy Satya's checkbook is all they need.

 

[Three]

Well exactly my point, and what you said is true. So why are you and others going in so hard to try and make out there arent a reason for the decline, and its soley down to demand not being there anymore?.
You see what i'm saying?

No I don't see what you're saying. Seems more like you're upset that I didn't frame the decline in demand with "a reason" when all I'm saying is that there is lower demand for the consoles if there is a 11% decline in sales and shelf availability.

 

[hlm666]

Capcom down aswell, I mean MS isn't gonna be the only ones missing the benefit of everyone having nothing to do.

 

[adamsapple]

Capcom down aswell, I mean MS isn't gonna be the only ones missing the benefit of everyone having nothing to do.

All of them will be down. It's not really surprising and should be expected.

 

[Three]

What are you talking about? Hardware sales are down 11%.

Again, look at and read the chart. It's not YoY.