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[xbhaskarx]

Does the mall sell non-Mormon underwear?

 

[drifter444]

Could you please post sources.

 

[CorvoSol]

They have lots and lots of blind followers willing to donate almost everything they own.

Oh yeah, because all of this is paid for entirely out of tithing and ten percent is magically ninety percent now. Bravo.

So I guess birth control coverage is completely out of the question for anyone living in downtown salt lake city area?

I attend a Church School (which, unlike the mall, actually IS funded by tithing funds) and in our science class (SCI 101) we had like, thirty minutes set aside where the professor went over a number of today's hot-topics and the Church's official stances on them.

What I'm saying is, in a Church funded school they taught us that birth-control is a couple's decision, and not the Church's. Then we got back to our unit on evolution.

 

[el retorno]

Like you know what you're talking about...

Tell me, how will it drive people away from the Church?

Society is becoming more accepting of gays. Young people will see the church as unaccepting of their beliefs and not go and not give in money.

Its not something that will happen overnight. But if churches stick to their anti gay preaching they will lose people.

 

[06nbarnhill]

Could you please post sources.

Anything specific? Most of what I posted is general info you could get from a google search or Wiki.

 

[s7evn]

Could you please post sources.

Sources for what? The tax stuff or the mall?

 

[CorvoSol]

Society is becoming more accepting of gays. Young people will see the church as unaccepting of their beliefs and not go and not give in money.

Its not something that will happen overnight. But if churches stick to their anti gay preaching they will lose people.

And how does that relate to their opening a Mall?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Society is becoming more accepting of gays. Young people will see the church as unaccepting of their beliefs and not go and not give in money.

Its not something that will happen overnight. But if churches stick to their anti gay preaching they will lose people.

what?!? how does this have anything to do with the churches business arm?

what you are talking about is a belief system that spans across many religions.

the church supporting prop 8 is a discussion for another thread.

 

[alphaNoid]

Looks like a cool place, I don't have any problem with it.

Society is becoming more accepting of gays. Young people will see the church as unaccepting of their beliefs and not go and not give in money.

Its not something that will happen overnight. But if churches stick to their anti gay preaching they will lose people.

Churches will stick to their anti-gay preaching as much as they will their anti-anything preaching. Its in the Bible, and public acceptance doesn't ever remove the words from the book. Not saying I agree with it, but thats how it is and always will be.

 

[Slayven]

Wish there was a church big enough to pump cash into our shitty former mall.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Why would a church even need a business arm? What possible purpose does god have for a shopping center?

 

[bengraven]

Utah is basically more of a US territory than state. The law of the land is MORMON.

Looks like a cool place, I don't have any problem with it.



Churches will stick to their anti-gay preaching as much as they will their anti-anything preaching. Its in the Bible, and public acceptance doesn't ever remove the words from the book. Not saying I agree with it, but thats how it is and always will be.

Good luck finding anything cool that isn't church-approved there.

 

[Clevinger]

what?!? how does this have anything to do with the churches business arm?

The tens of millions of dollars the Mormon church uses to try and suppress people's rights doesn't appear out of thin air.

 

[Slayven]

Why would a church even need a business arm? What possible purpose does god have for a shopping center?

I imagine it has to do with the reasons they are in Utah to begin

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Utah is basically more of a US territory than state.
The law of the land is MORMON.
Good luck finding anything cool that isn't church-approved there.

This is not even close to true.

second, what kinds of cool stuff are you looking for?

 

[CorvoSol]

Why would a church even need a business arm? What possible purpose does god have for a shopping center?

The Church requires funds just as any other organization would. It has to pay for the printing of its religious texts, the maintenance and construction of its places of worship, its universities, and so on. Maintaining a world-wide organization is a costly practice.

The tens of millions of dollars the Mormon church uses to try and suppress people's rights doesn't appear out of thin air.

Because again, it isn't like the Church doesn't have other expenditures. This is CLEARLY the only reason they'd need to raise money. It amuses me that, in the crusade against ignorance, the crusaders are often as ignorant as their foes.

But whatever, take your cheap shots as you must.

 

[s7evn]

Utah is basically more of a US territory than state. The law of the land is MORMON.

You could say that about most of the South except with a different sect of Christianity.

 

[Mudita]

I just moved to SLC a few months ago and have heard a lot of people talking about this opening today. I had NO IDEA it was opened by the church, so thank you thread for informing me not to shop there. I swore when I first moved here to do my best to not allow any of my dollars to make their way into the church coffer as they turn around and pour that money into the political system to try to spread their prejudices. It has been hard to stick to, but with careful vetting of banks and businesses it can be done. I know this might make me sound prejudiced myself, however I have nothing against Mormons as individuals, but with the organization as a whole.

 

[Barbacoatl]

Sweet spot. When I die I only want to be baptized by the Mormon church.

 

[LuchaShaq]

If

A. they weren't a tax exempt group.

B. They were not able to do anything more than ask you to leave in terms of breaking their morality clauses.

I'd be fine.

Otherwise bs.

 

[drifter444]

Here is a good video article from 2009. It may be old but it is very informative.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/november-6-2009/city-creek-center/4854/

 

[LowParry]

I just moved to SLC a few months ago and have heard a lot of people talking about this opening today. I had NO IDEA it was opened by the church, so thank you thread for informing me not to shop there. I swore when I first moved here to do my best to not allow any of my dollars to make their way into the church coffer as they turn around and pour that money into the political system to try to spread their prejudices. It has been hard to stick to, but with careful vetting of banks and businesses it can be done. I know this might make me sound prejudiced myself, however I have nothing against Mormons as individuals, but with the organization as a whole.

That seems rather extreme. Respect though.

RIP Gateway. You had a good run.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

RIP Gateway. You had a good run.

still the best parking for Jazz games.

 

[LowParry]

still the best parking for Jazz games.

I haven't been to a game in years. Hell, why can't Utah have a freakin NFL football team?

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Every time I think GAF is as ignorant as possible about the LDS church and/or the state of Utah, they prove to up the bar once more.

Good job, guys.

 

[Flo_Evans]

The Church requires funds just as any other organization would. It has to pay for the printing of its religious texts, the maintenance and construction of its places of worship, its universities, and so on. Maintaining a world-wide organization is a costly practice.

Isn't that why they collect tithing from their members?

Shouldn't the church concern itself with spreading gods message, and helping the poor instead of turning a profit with business ventures?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Isn't that why they collect tithing from their members?

Shouldn't the church concern itself with spreading gods message, and helping the poor instead of turning a profit with business ventures?

can't they do both?

Is there something wrong with turning a profit? they aren't selling handbags in church buildings and they aren't handing out pamphlets in Nordstrom.

 

[ronito]

Every time I think GAF is as ignorant as possible about the LDS church and/or the state of Utah, they prove to up the bar once more.

Good job, guys.

To be fair, the OP isn't necessarily ignorant. It is true that the church's for profit arm paid at least 1.5 billion into this mall. Don't see how that fact is "ignorant"

Now you talking about the Prop 8 stuff?
Yeah well that was a PR fiasco, which is utterly unsurprising why some react the way they do. Doesn't make it ok, but I can understand why some would say that.

 

[ronito]

can't they do both?

Is there something wrong with turning a profit? they aren't selling handbags in church buildings and they aren't handing out pamphlets in Nordstrom.

For the record I have HUGE reservations about ANY church having a "for profit" arm. 10% tithe from active membership should be more than enough. It is enough to have a for-profit arm to deal with situations where someone tithes with stock or something like that. But having a very active, very profitable for profit arm is no good. It gives the whole Super PAC "no coordination" feel to it and it is uncomely of any religion, let alone one that constantly pushes the "Avoid even the appearance of evil." line on its membership.

What's wrong with turning a profit? Nothing if you're a corporation. But money is amoral and makes people do amoral things. There's a reason Jesus cast out the money lenders from the temple.

 

[rac]

If any atheist actually makes it to Salt Lake City they have to remember to bring some unholy water.

 

[Alucrid]

Every time I think GAF is as ignorant as possible about the LDS church and/or the state of Utah, they prove to up the bar once more.

Good job, guys.

There are no bars

 

[Jeff-DSA]

To be fair, the OP isn't necessarily ignorant. It is true that the church's for profit arm paid at least 1.5 billion into this mall. Don't see how that fact is "ignorant"

Now you talking about the Prop 8 stuff?
Yeah well that was a PR fiasco, which is utterly unsurprising why some react the way they do. Doesn't make it ok, but I can understand why some would say that.

I'm referring to the garbage like people claiming that they're going to be banning gay people from the premises, when there are actual gay members that hold leadership positions. People claiming that Utah is more like a territory that is totally ran by the Mormons, when we're far more moderate than many Southern states on social issues. Then there's the misconception that people are just turning over their every penny to the church, when that couldn't be farther from the truth. Or maybe the stuff like the church just hordes money but doesn't engage in charitable efforts.

All that stuff comes up every time the LDS church is mentioned around here, and it's all nonsense that can be dispelled with a 2-minute Google visit.

 

[johnsmith]

You could say that about most of the South except with a different sect of Christianity.

As a liberal godless atheist I'd rather live in Utah than the South, no contest.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

For the record I have HUGE reservations about ANY church having a "for profit" arm. 10% tithe from active membership should be more than enough. It is enough to have a for-profit arm to deal with situations where someone tithes with stock or something like that. But having a very active, very profitable for profit arm is no good. It gives the whole Super PAC "no coordination" feel to it and it is uncomely of any religion, let alone one that constantly pushes the "Avoid even the appearance of evil." line on its membership.

What's wrong with turning a profit? Nothing if you're a corporation. But money is amoral and makes people do amoral things. There's a reason Jesus cast out the money lenders from the temple.

I get the argument however casting people out of a temple and buying a building in downtown salt lake don't seem exactly the same to me.

There are no bars

ummm ok

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Salt Lake City is the center of the church's operations. It makes great sense that the church has an interest in the health of downtown Salt Lake City. The City Creek center is an attempt to keep downtown healthy and modern. Far too many cities have had their downtown areas rot, and the church didn't want that happening here.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

I don't know why people are complaining, it's not like the city was gonna pay for it. At least some good changes have come to SLC out of this by trying to modernize things. The city would still be in the stone age otherwise.

 

[s7evn]

I get the argument however casting people out of a temple and buying a building in downtown salt lake don't seem exactly the same to me.

I thought they just owned all the land the buildings are located on, so they build the buildings to lease out.

 

[fredrancour]

Salt Lake City is the center of the church's operations. It makes great sense that the church has an interest in the health of downtown Salt Lake City. The City Creek center is an attempt to keep downtown healthy and modern. Far too many cities have had their downtown areas rot, and the church didn't want that happening here.

Seriously, nothing seems objectionable about wanting to invest in the city that you're centered in. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going "neener neener neener I can't hear you" to the future would be way worse. They are well within their rights to leverage their money to try to stop SLC from becoming Cleveland.

 

[ronito]

I get the argument however casting people out of a temple and buying a building in downtown salt lake don't seem exactly the same to me.

Building <> $1.5 billion Mall (den of capitalism)

To me money has an incredible corrupting potential. I see it every day in my dealings. The more you're in money the more you're in corruptable positions. What happens then should a smoke shop or a liquor store open up in the mall? The church is then profiting from things it bans its members from. What about lingerie? Sex shops?

It's the same as Romney and his tax shelters/sitting on the board of a company that makes a ton of profit off of porn whilst selling himself as a patriot who does everything he can for his country and a family values candidate. Is it wrong per se? Not exactly. Is it slimy as hell? You bet.

 

[alphaNoid]

Utah is basically more of a US territory than state. The law of the land is MORMON.





Good luck finding anything cool that isn't church-approved there.

Multiple wives are cool!

 

[el retorno]

what?!? how does this have anything to do with the churches business arm?

what you are talking about is a belief system that spans across many religions.

the church supporting prop 8 is a discussion for another thread.

And how does that relate to their opening a Mall?

I was responding to a poster who said this would lead to more money to fight gay rights, I responded let them waste their money and said they were only hurting themselves. Got questioned and that was my response

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Building <> $1.5 billion Mall (den of capitalism)

To me money has an incredible corrupting potential. I see it every day in my dealings. The more you're in money the more you're in corruptable positions. What happens then should a smoke shop or a liquor store open up in the mall? The church is then profiting from things it bans its members from. What about lingerie? Sex shops?

It's the same as Romney and his tax shelters/sitting on the board of a company that makes a ton of profit off of porn whilst selling himself as a patriot who does everything he can for his country and a family values candidate. Is it wrong per se? Not exactly. Is it slimy as hell? You bet.

Again, he's a member on the board, and just like any board, he doesn't hold all the votes for decisions like this. Do you not think these things through, or does it hurt your agenda too much to take things like that into consideration when blabbering about it?

 

[ronito]

Again, he's a member on the board, and just like any board, he doesn't hold all the votes for decisions like this. Do you not think these things through, or does it hurt your agenda too much to take things like that into consideration when blabbering about it?

So then getting on Romney's case because he gave money to Planned Parenthood = OK.


Getting on his case for preaching family values and sitting on the board of a company who profits from porn = "You have an agenda you blathering idiot!"

Got it.

I mean obviously the board has little to do with what the companies do anyway. It's just for show that they exist.

I used to work for Dish Network that made a ton of money off of porn. TONS! So I totally understand. Romney needs that paycheck as much I did. Can't fault him for wanting to feed his family. It's not like he has the wherewithal to just drop a seat on a board or anything.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

So then getting on Romney's case because he gave money to Planned Parenthood = OK.


Getting on his case for preaching family values and sitting on the board of a company who profits from porn = "You have an agenda you blathering idiot!"

Got it.

I mean obviously the board has little to do with what the companies do anyway. It's just for show that they exist.

I used to work for Dish Network that made a ton of money off of porn. TONS! So I totally understand. Romney needs that paycheck as much I did. Can't fault him for wanting to feed his family. It's not like he has the wherewithal to just drop a seat on a board or anything.

He's not on the board.

Once again, taken to the extreme and putting words into people's mouths. And working for a low end company you have no say in vs someone in a high end company that does, no, you don't understand.

 

[Dude Abides]

Again, he's a member on the board, and just like any board, he doesn't hold all the votes for decisions like this. Do you not think these things through, or does it hurt your agenda too much to take things like that into consideration when blabbering about it?

He could resign from the board if he really thought that pornography was a cesspool.

 

[ronito]

Once again, taken to the extreme and putting words into people's mouths. And working for a low end company you have no say in vs someone in a high end company that does, no, you don't understand.

You miss the point. The point is he has the ability to say "Hey! Perhaps it would seem hypocritical for me to be on this board while I'm out stumping around about the immorality of the media and all that. I don't need the money, perhaps I should resign just so I'm not seen as being a hypocrite."

Lest you say that I not know what I'm talking about the CEO of the very company I am working for left it so he wouldn't seem biased when it came to healthcare and public sector consulting issues. So some people have the integrity to do it.


Edit: Actually I'm in the wrong here. He resigned from it in 2011. I was not aware. I apologize. Good on him. However, my comment on tax shelters still stands. That's a slimy move.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

You miss the point. The point is he has the ability to say "Hey! Perhaps it would seem hypocritical for me to be on this board while I'm out stumping around about the immorality of the media and all that. I don't need the money, perhaps I should resign just so I'm not seen as being a hypocrite."

Lest you say that I not know what I'm talking about the CEO of the very company I am working for left it so he wouldn't seem biased when it came to healthcare and public sector consulting issues. So some people have the integrity to do it. I'm saying Romney doesn't.

He could resign from the board if he really thought that pornography was a cesspool.

Again, he left the board. Who knows, that might have been a reason.

 

[Mrs. Manky]

Is the mall closed on Sundays?

 

[06nbarnhill]

Is the mall closed on Sundays?

Yes.

 

[johnsmith]

Is the mall closed on Sundays?

Yep.