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[fedexpeon]

Of course it is up to Sony to accommodate PayPal and how it works into their tos. As you say a bank reversing charges, even by mistake, is not uncommon so Sony should be aware of this. Obviously it's not all Sony's fault and yes they should of put a temporary restriction on the account untill it was sorted out. But the issue is they have just permanently banned the account without allowing any way of knowing why or helping the customer rectify whatever has gone wrong. This issue is 100% Sony's fault, and the story of them being stupidly unhelpful in these situations has been noted quite a few times on gaf. There is no defense for this and consumer law urgently needs updating to in this area to protect us.

No, the problem is PP fault.
Banks chargeback is different from PP.
These ==> means waiting for confirmation from both parties.

Clicking Buy Now==>Your Money(Bank Account)==>Feds==>Sony Account

This is PP route: Clicking Buy Now==>PP==>ACH: Your Bank==>PP==>Feds==>Sony Account

Now with suspicious activity:
Bank==>Feds=(Y/N Suspicious)=>Sony. If Y, then no transaction, and you get declined from even trying to give money to Sony. If N, please complete transaction.
If Y, and completed transaction, Bank/You will dispute the change on request, and Sony will look at their record to confirm it with the Bank reporting on your behalf.
If it is unauthorized, bank/Sony don't care.
Now if the Bank/Sony confirmed that you did it, and you signed/said that you didn't do it, well you were breaking the law and claimed false chargebacks.
Sony will act on this if they believe you were trying to cheat the system.

This is PP for suspicious activity:
...PP==>Feds==>Sony. Transaction is completed from You to Sony, or is it?
Now PP will later deem your transaction as fraud. (I will be removing Feds since they are involved with everything)
PP will dispute the transaction, and confirming that your transaction shouldn't have happened, and now Sony==>PP due to fraud request based on the ToS contract that PP requires all company to sign if they want to use PP.
For refund, PP==>Your Account. Nice and simple right?

This dispute process is a different transaction. This isn't your money in the first place, it has always been PP money that was exchanging hands between Sony/PP, and theirs contractual agreement. You aren't important unless PP deems it is important for them to act on your behalf.

Sony got screwed over by PP ToS since you received the benefit without paying Sony.
Your transaction history will be recorded for your bad "behavior" of filing false chargebacks.
PP didn't lose anything, and simply just gave your money back.
You can resolve it with PP for them to give it back to Sony, but Sony won't remember that THIS WAS YOUR MONEY/ORIGINAL INTENTION...because once again, your money was never involved in the first place. You think PP even cares if you've requested them to pay Sony? Their ToS is solid, PP is protected.
Your Sony account is now marked, and was already marked.
At least with the bank, you/bank/Sony have the chance to confirm each other request to avoid the situation of claiming that you are a cheater.

 

[nelchaar]

There is no bannable offense that could possibly entitle a company from letting you access your own games. What a load of horseshit.

It's like pissing off Gamestop and then having them ask you to return your disks. This should not be acceptable in any shape or form, regardless of what OP did.

The only way Sony has a right to lock out OP from his games is if they have clear-cut proof that he somehow stole those games via some fraudulent activities.

This is why I will never accept a digital future unless the issue of ownership is resolved.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Rough story, and one that definitely makes me glad I'm able to still buy primarily retail games. Hopefully the OP is able to get it sorted once the phones open up on Monday.

I've removed PayPal as a payment option from my Steam account (never linked it to PSN as far as I can tell) as a precaution anyway. Credit Card works just fine, and stories like these are pretty concerning.

 

[Tevious]

Scary, man.
Stick w/ the physical product. It's often just as cheap or cheaper and what you do w/ it is entirely up to you.

Love the old consoles.

Being that I moved halfway across the world it is really not convenient to be hauling a disc collection around with me. If you're someone that does a lot of traveling or lives overseas temporarily, digital has a lot of perks. I can download games as soon as they release and don't have to pay for shipping or wait a week or two for it to arrive here.

Having to import games from the US does not make it cheaper. I've been in South Korea for almost 3 years now and haven't been to the US in about a year and a half. When I first arrived here, it was before the digital market took off on PSN. I brought over a big disc case with my PS3 collection and some blu-rays. I used to order the big AAA games that I really wanted from amazon to my mother's house, then wait until I had 2-3 games, and have her ship the discs over in a ~$30 package along with some other small things that I couldn't get here. When games started having a digital option, it was a no-brainer for me to switch to digital. I even sent my disc collection back home last time my family came to visit me and intended to sell it on ebay when I got back to the States. I even double-dipped and repurchased many games that I owned on disc during sales to rebuild my collection.

I'm still in favor of having digital media. I still make purchases for digital movies and shows using Amazon that I don't get on Prime/Netflix. At least Amazon is a lot more trustworthy to own digital purchases with, but there certainly needs to be some changes in some company policies and hopefully some laws to protect consumers from companies that think it's okay to just ban an account (no matter what the reason) and prevent access to their purchases. They should be forced to do a refund for all purchases for that. It's anti-consumer and people should really be raising a big stink about it. I guess at the very least, I will write a letter to a congressman about my situation and hope something happens (I'm not optimistic).

 

[farmerboy]

There is no bannable offense that could possibly entitle a company from letting you access your own games. What a load of horseshit.

It's like pissing off Gamestop and then having them ask you to return your disks. This should not be acceptable in any shape or form, regardless of what OP did.

The only way Sony has a right to lock out OP from his games is if they have clear-cut proof that he somehow stole those games via some fraudulent activities.
This is why I will never accept a digital future unless the issue of ownership is resolved.

Amen to that.

 

[Dire]

Never (let a) charge back (happen). Steam also bans your account when a charge back happens, happened to a close friend of mine. He lost a couple of hundred games but after a long arduous process with Valve support that consists of a pakistan-based customer service that communicate in broken english, he got it back.

It sucks that dealing with PayPal and charging back leads to an insta-ban on pretty much any service. I hope you can reverse the ban.

When was this?

The first thing I did after reading this thread was google to determine whether or not Steam bans mean you lose all your games because this seems messed up to say the least. You don't: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Va...u-Can-Now-Access-Your-Games-Banned-41650.html

 

[gruenel]

Sounds like a fucking nightmare, I'd lose digital titles worth thousands from PS+ alone if that happened to me.

I guess I'll stop using CC and PayPal to add funds to my account and instead just buy PSN cards in a store, that way I'm sure no chargeback can happen.

They really need to facilitate unbanning your account in cases like these.

 

[DC1]

I'm up now. I got a PM from Jason Schreier about someone who emailed him who had a similar (but $300 worth of purchases) problem resolved. This "Accounting" department is called Consumer Services and I have their direct number. Unfortunately, I just called and they are only open from Monday-Friday, so I'll have to wait to contact them. This seems to be the department that I need to talk to and the one the Supervisor wouldn't give me a number too.

In the meantime, should I go ahead and file a complaint on the BBB now for Sony Network Entertainment of America or wait until after I attempt to talk with them on Monday?

I highly recommend that you wait to speak with them. They did not do this without causing.
If you file a complaint and Sony show them why you were banned in accordance with the TOS, then you super screwed. Capital S.

Call CR.
Once you understand the exact reason for your ban you can formulate your next steps based on your culpability.

Ask how much money you owe due to the charge backs caused by PayPal.

Ask if anyone from CS attempted to reach out to. When and through which contact.

Ask how you can repay the money that you owe.

Ask about appeal process.

If none of these provide you with a path to reclaim your account then pursue whatever avenues that will help you upported by:
The number of calls you made to resolve this issue,
The names of the people you spoke with (date and time) and the
Basic questions that you asked but did not get answers to.

Like I said in my previous posts.
Something went down from a payment perspective. Sony would not ban an account without cause.
You would benefit from consistently and respectfully calling their CR department requests for escalation until you get the answers you need.


The correct path is in front of you. I hope you take it.

 

[useyourfist]

No, the problem is PP fault.
Banks chargeback is different from PP.
These ==> means waiting for confirmation from both parties.

Clicking Buy Now==>Your Money(Bank Account)==>Feds==>Sony Account

This is PP route: Clicking Buy Now==>PP==>ACH: Your Bank==>PP==>Feds==>Sony Account

Now with suspicious activity:
Bank==>Feds=(Y/N Suspicious)=>Sony. If Y, then no transaction, and you get declined from even trying to give money to Sony. If N, please complete transaction.
If Y, and completed transaction, Bank/You will dispute the change on request, and Sony will look at their record to confirm it with the Bank reporting on your behalf.
If it is unauthorized, bank/Sony don't care.
Now if the Bank/Sony confirmed that you did it, and you signed/said that you didn't do it, well you were breaking the law and claimed false chargebacks.
Sony will act on this if they believe you were trying to cheat the system.

This is PP for suspicious activity:
...PP==>Feds==>Sony. Transaction is completed from You to Sony, or is it?
Now PP will later deem your transaction as fraud. (I will be removing Feds since they are involved with everything)
PP will dispute the transaction, and confirming that your transaction shouldn't have happened, and now Sony==>PP due to fraud request based on the ToS contract that PP requires all company to sign if they want to use PP.
For refund, PP==>Your Account. Nice and simple right?

This dispute process is a different transaction. This isn't your money in the first place, it has always been PP money that was exchanging hands between Sony/PP, and theirs contractual agreement. You aren't important unless PP deems it is important for them to act on your behalf.

Sony got screwed over by PP ToS since you received the benefit without paying Sony.
Your transaction history will be recorded for your bad "behavior" of filing false chargebacks.
PP didn't lose anything, and simply just gave your money back.
You can resolve it with PP for them to give it back to Sony, but Sony won't remember that THIS WAS YOUR MONEY/ORIGINAL INTENTION...because once again, your money was never involved in the first place. You think PP even cares if you've requested them to pay Sony? Their ToS is solid, PP is protected.
Your Sony account is now marked, and was already marked.
At least with the bank, you/bank/Sony have the chance to confirm each other request to avoid the situation of claiming that you are a cheater.

Completely agree with you, PayPal is rubbish and I would urge no one to use them. But what I'm saying is Sony should not be able to lock all content without fully explaining why plus working with the customer to resolve the issue. The issue is with Sony as they have locked the content, it may be paypals fault but they are not in control of Sony's actions.

Either way as others have said, it is a joke that Sony are allowed to do this.

 

[SparkTR]

When was this?

The first thing I did after reading this thread was google to determine whether or not Steam bans mean you lose all your games because this seems messed up to say the least. You don't: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Va...u-Can-Now-Access-Your-Games-Banned-41650.html

Yeah, they changed it to only restricting access to store/community features. I'm still wondering why stuff like this PSN issue still exists, I mean Valve has been pioneering this type of digital approach for nearly a decade now, they've set precedents, experimented and discovered what works and what doesn't work through a trial by fire. Other companies shouldn't have to go through the same process, it's been done and established a long time ago.

 

[Tevious]

I highly recommend that you wait to speak with them. They did not do this without causing.
If you file a complaint and Sony show them why you were banned in accordance with the TOS, then you super screwed. Capital S.

Call CR.
Once you understand the exact reason for your ban you can formulate your next steps based on your culpability.

Ask how much money you owe due to the charge backs caused by PayPal.

Ask if anyone from CS attempted to reach out to. When and through which contact.

Ask how you can repay the money that you owe.

Ask about appeal process.

If none of these provide you with a path to reclaim your account then pursue whatever avenues that will help you upported by:
The number of calls you made to resolve this issue,
The names of the people you spoke with (date and time) and the
Basic questions that you asked but did not get answers to.

Like I said in my previous posts.
Something went down from a payment perspective. Sony would not ban an account without cause.
You would benefit from consistently and respectfully calling their CR department requests for escalation until you get the answers you need.


The correct path is in front of you. I hope you take it.

Next step is for me to call Consumer Services when they open on Monday. If I get no where with them, then I will file a complaint with the BBB.

I don't owe them any money. This is my second ban. The first one was resolved when I paid them the $50 back that PayPal reversed. My account was unbanned, but then banned again a few weeks later for no apparent reason. Probably related to the first one or just some mistake on Sony's part.

 

[Woody Invincible]

Nice to see all the corporate apologist minutemen on the ready.

The ride of member Trevious, set the forum on its ear...

 

[LiK]

I fucking hate when companies say that can't do shit cuz an account was banned for TOS reasons. People have spent money on your services and products, learn to be flexible and investigate this fucking shit. Give the customer a better answer.

I'm sure if it was a friend, family or even a gaming journalist, they would fix it asap.

 

[DC1]

Next step is for me to call Consumer Services when they open on Monday. If I get no where with them, then I will file a complaint with the BBB.

I don't owe them any money. This is my second ban. The first one was resolved when I paid them the $50 back that PayPal reversed. My account was unbanned, but then banned again a few weeks later for no apparent reason. Probably related to the first one or just some mistake on Sony's part.

If your goal is to reclaim your digital content.
And
You do not have the financial means to retain an attorney.
Then
It would be in your best interest from a content, time and financial perspective to work on/with CR.

Once you have 5 calls under your belt with names, dates and times where you ask the questions I outline,
And
You still do not have a resolution,
Then
Feel free to contact the BBB. In this way you will be better equipped to outline your case and complain that you did receive an adequate response to your inquiries.

However, if you do this right, I believe the CR team will open up.

Question: How do you know that you don't owe any money?

Good luck!

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

OP, this may help a bit.

A few days ago, when the destiny limited and digital guardian editions were announced, I decided to cancel my PSN preorder of the "regular retail" edition to purchase the digital guardian edition. I contacted Sony via chat and explained to them that I wanted to switch my preorder to digital guardian edition and since that isn't up on the site yet, I asked the CS rep to cancel my digital pre order.

He said that destiny was a special case and that he couldn't, and the only way to do it would be to essentially dispute the chages with my bank and that would cancel it. Dumb, right?

So I called Amex and repeated what they had told me to the AMEX rep and he proceeded to begin the dispute process. But before he did, he warned me. He said, "I've had instances where after disputing and collectig the funds, the customer's account was permanently banned by Sony." Essentially telling me AMEX isn't responsible once my Sony account gets perma-banned.

Outside of you committing some fraud or piracy, which you deny I can with almost certainty say that this is due the paypal chargeback or something similar that may have happened again.

 

[Tevious]

If your goal is to reclaim your digital content.
And
You do not have the financial means to retain an attorney.
Then
It would be in your best interest from a content, time and financial perspective to work on/with CR.

We'll see how things go when I call them on Monday. Also, my Aunt is a lawyer (even though she specializes in Guardian Law) and would be able to assist me if I needed to take legal action.

Question: How do you know that you don't owe any money?

I already straightened out the problem with them over the PayPal charge reversal. The reversal was for $50 in funds that I added using PayPal. Sony had me buy a $50 PSN card to apply the missing funds back into my account. My account balance was back to normal and I don't owe them any money. I haven't made any purchases since and there hasn't been any other charge reversals. In fact, I had a small balance left over in my account that I can't access now. If anything, Sony owes me money. Not to mention my games and PS+ service...

Outside of you committing some fraud or piracy, which you deny I can with almost certainty say that this is due the paypal chargeback or something similar that may have happened again.

Still odd that we resolved the issue, I paid them the money back, they unbanned me and then proceed to ban me again weeks later.

 

[Enco]

This is the stuff of nightmares.

Completely unacceptable. I hope you get all of your games back.

I would be on the phone with them on a regular basis. Wouldn't rest until I had everything back.

I fear that something like this will happen to my Steam account. It's unlikely but would be awful if it did.

Don't give up. Like others said, keep trying to get to the bosses.

Oh and fuck paypal. Shitty company and service outside of this.

 

[TouchMyBox]

This is pretty unacceptable in 2014, Steam has got this shit figured out, if you're doing chargebacks and shit they disable purchasing on your account until you get everything sorted out. Locking people out of their purchased content removes my faith in a platform.

 

[RoninChaos]

Corporate ball washers out in full effect. Nice.

Good luck, OP. Glad Jason got you that number.

 

[dorkimoe]

This is pretty unacceptable in 2014, Steam has got this shit figured out, if you're doing chargebacks and shit they disable purchasing on your account until you get everything sorted out. Locking people out of their purchased content removes my faith in a platform.

also another reason i dont support 100% digital

 

[kaiyo]

I think you need to call PayPal to cancel the charge back and ask then to write an email detailing the situation. Then call Sony and explain what happen and say you have canceled the charge back and have email from PayPal you want to forward to them.

 

[Silvawuff]

I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. I really hope you can get stuff sorted out.

This sort of event is a scary reality of an all-digital future where we purchase the right to play our games, but we don't own them anymore.

 

[JaseC]

This is pretty unacceptable in 2014, Steam has got this shit figured out, if you're doing chargebacks and shit they disable purchasing on your account until you get everything sorted out. Locking people out of their purchased content removes my faith in a platform.

Restrictions imposed due to chargebacks are removed automatically after nine weeks. If you have games to play in that time and don't mind the fact that you're unable to activate/purchase a new game then you don't need to get in touch with Valve at all.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Damn that's some BS. Just don't let them off the hook until you get your stuff back. Keep asking to speak to someone higher up if you can.

 

[Tevious]

I think you need to call PayPal to cancel the charge back and ask then to write an email detailing the situation. Then call Sony and explain what happen and say you have canceled the charge back and have email from PayPal you want to forward to them.

I don't even know why I was even banned yet the 2nd time. Until I find out why and if it has to do with PayPal, then I will call them. I've already settled the charge back issue with Sony, so its most likely some miscommunication amongst the different Sony Customer Service departments that led to my 2nd ban.

 

[TyrantII]

There is no bannable offense that could possibly entitle a company from letting you access your own games. What a load of horseshit.

It's like pissing off Gamestop and then having them ask you to return your disks. This should not be acceptable in any shape or form, regardless of what OP did.

The only way Sony has a right to lock out OP from his games is if they have clear-cut proof that he somehow stole those games via some fraudulent activities.

This is why I will never accept a digital future unless the issue of ownership is resolved.

It has been resolved. You don't own them. You've purchased a limited use license that can be terminated at any time.

I'll never understand why anyone buys a digital license over $5. The equity you're throwing away by overpriced licenses isn't worth the convenience factor of not getting off your ass to put a disc in.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

For what its worth, there is a german lawyer who answers userquestions on Youtube sometimes and someone asked if its legal that Sony banned his PSN account.
The lawyer said its not legal, unless the person violated the TOS.
He didn't go into detail, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GevzXhhE5uk

 

[kaiyo]

I don't even know why I was even banned yet the 2nd time. Until I find out why and if it has to do with PayPal, then I will call them. I've already settled the charge back issue with Sony, so its most likely some miscommunication amongst the different Sony Customer Service departments that led to my 2nd ban.

I think you should be more proactive about it unless you want to wait around. It is most likely because of the charge back. After you resolved the 'disbute' the first time with Sony (after you got unbanned) you should have cancel the charge back. Your account is still 'flagged' because of it.

 

[Tevious]

I think you should be more proactive about it unless you want to wait around. It is most likely because of the charge back. After you resolved the 'disbute' the first time with Sony (after you got unbanned) you should have cancel the charge back. Your account is still 'flagged' because of it.

There was and is nothing to cancel. I have no options in regard to that charge back. The money was just returned to my account and the case was closed in the Resolution Center.

 

[Neuromancer]

Tevious, and Bamelin,

I heard back from my Playstation MVP point of contact and community manager who said he forwarded your information and story to customer service, and if he needs anything else from you he'll let me know. My fingers are crossed for a resolution soon.

 

[E92 M3]

Tevious, and Bamelin,

I heard back from my Playstation MVP point of contact and community manager who said he forwarded your information and story to customer service, and if he needs anything else from you he'll let me know. My fingers are crossed for a resolution soon.

Hopefully that gets it resolved. But this is still a major problem for the majority that do not have any connections and just try to resolve through "customer service". I wish all companies had customer service like AMEX or Amazon.

 

[Liberty4all]

Tevious, and Bamelin,

I heard back from my Playstation MVP point of contact and community manager who said he forwarded your information and story to customer service, and if he needs anything else from you he'll let me know. My fingers are crossed for a resolution soon.

I got a similar email ... I'm sure the issue will be heavily scrutinized at this point.

 

[Liberty4all]

Account unbanned.

 

[Vashetti]

Hurrah!

 

[Alista]

Account unbanned.

Nice one! A victory for common sense. Been following this and knew it would only be a matter of time.

 

[JaseMath]

GAF to the rescue!

 

[InFamousRaiden]

did you ask them for details why the account was banned in the first place?

This is pretty scary.

I have like 200+ Piece of software and games on PS3 alone !

 

[DC1]

Account unbanned.

Hurrah for Sony Gaf!

Edit:
Sony and Gaf = solution for OP.
Just wanted to clear up any conspiratorial thoughts that might be in the wild.

 

[bwakh]

Account unbanned.

Nice

 

[GreenTornadoX]

I love happy endings! Congrats Tevious!

 

[F0rneus]

Sony GAF is best GAF? Best GAF! Perfect resolution to a hellish situation. And props to Sony for doing the right thing.

 

[Enco]

If you get an account banned GAF seems like a good port of call.

Pretty sure this isn't the first time something like this happened.

Congrats.

 

[Neuromancer]

Excellent news.

I'm going to think twice about using Paypal with PSN ever again after this.

 

[K' Dash]

Account unbanned.

Excellent news

 

[Castcoder]

...Alright Kotaku, get your stupid article up. We all know you've been lurking in here.

 

[N30RYU]

Account unbanned.

Congrats man

 

[Persona7]

Good to hear about the unbanning.

 

[MMaRsu]

Account unbanned.

That's awesome!! I was just about to post something like ' I know Sony reps read GAF so give this bro his account back! ', and then I see it's already fixed! Woooo justice.

 

[LiK]

Excellent news.

I'm going to think twice about using Paypal with PSN ever again after this.

I don't use Paypal for either Sony and MS. Buy prepaid cards instead. You can get digital codes and get those right away from Amazon. Much safer and works flawlessly.

 

[epmode]

Now for Sony to announce a new policy in which banned accounts are still able to download and play previously purchased games, right?