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[Neoleo2143]

The biggest unknown for me is still how standard progression will feel throughout the game. As some story with cutscenes is apparently still present and bigger dungeons are supposedly there too I really wonder if you even get an item there if the game is as non-linear as proclaimed. Sounds really hard to imagine so I just want to play it already.

It's possible. We see Link with some sort of roping ability which he definitely doesn't have at the start. But Link has more abilities at the Start of this game than he has at the end of some other Zeldas which is odd.

 

[Skittzo0413]

As for the semantic distinction between Shrines and Dungeons, it's been said time and again that Shrines are entirely optional, as in, if you don't complete any Shrines you can still trigger all the cutscenes and do all the major story quests. They're the equivalent of side quests or missions in any other open world games. This is a direct quote from Aonuma in the OP:

As I mentioned earlier in the presentation, if you go to the shrines some of the items you get will increase the growth potential for Link in terms of the amount of hearts you get or the increase in the amount of stamina gauge you get. And speaking about the bigger dungeons with bosses they actually serve a completely different purpose than the shrines and so the reason that Link has to go to those dungeons is different than the reason he has to go to the shrines.

It's pretty clear that that "Completely different purpose" is story, hence why they haven't shown off any of them in detail.

Yeah I gotta say, this is a pretty definitive statement. I have no idea how "traditional" these dungeons will be but he has clearly explained that there are dungeons outside of the 120 shrines.

 

[Mr-Joker]

And since weapons can break, you regularly have to get new ones. According to Aonuma, that’s how the development team chose to deal with players’ progression through the game without resorting to XP and other similar systems.

I really don't like this as I detest breakable weapon as I see no point in working hard to obtain a powerful weapon only for it to break later down the line, it's dumb and not what I call fun when facing strong enemies with no way in defeating them because my strongest weapon broke.

There better be unbreakable weapons, other than the Master Sword and not locked late game.

Aren't the shrines essentially the same thing we got with A Link Between Worlds?
Like that small cave focused on the pegasus boots.

It does, but with better rewards as the one in Link Between Worlds only gave Rupees which were useless to me.

I do think the question is worth asking though - the game is one month away, why haven't we seen any footage of a "traditional" dungeon yet, especially the typical early game "first dungeon" that they are always so proud to show off and excite people with? Why have they been showing nothing but shrines? I'm curious too. I don't think the answer being "BECAUSE SPOILERS!!!!" is really valid. That's now how marketing works, especially if this is a huge 50-100 hour open world game. If you have something impressive early in the game, you want everyone to see it.

This kinda reminds me of the MGSV situation with boss fights. I was certain that there would be pretty much no traditional MGS boss fights in the game. When I voiced this concern citing how they only showed Quiet over and over and had no mention or visuals hinting at any other bosses other than the Metal Gear, and pointing out how Peace Walker already followed this format, the diehard fans were telling me that I was being silly and that there's "no way" a numbered MGS would not have the traditional enemy squad bosses. Well, we all know how that turned out.

I trust Nintendo though. I will trust them until they break my heart. If they do I'll just open a bottle of vodka and play this while crying myself to sleep.

Yeah I have been wondering about that as well, why hasn't Nintendo shown off the Dungeon yet?

My guess is because we are getting less of them or they don't play like traditional dungeons.

Because the new and impressive thing they wanna sell people on is all the other stuff, the big world physics dance surfing horses.

Well they haven't impressed me as I am not interested in any of that...in fact I don't think that I have been impressed at all from what they have shown other than the art style.

 

[Inferno313]

I really don't like this as I detest breakable weapon as I see no point in working hard to obtain a powerful weapon only for it to break later down the line, it's dumb and not what I call fun when facing strong enemies with no way in defeating them because my strongest weapon broke.

There better be unbreakable weapons, other than the Master Sword and not locked late game.



It does, but with better rewards as the one in Link Between Worlds only gave Rupees which were useless to me.



Yeah I have been wondering about that as well, why hasn't Nintendo shown off the Dungeon yet?

My guess is because we are getting less of them or they don't play like traditional dungeons.



Well they haven't impressed me as I am not interested in any of that...in fact I don't think that I have been impressed at all from what they have shown other than the art style.

I'm not hating, everyone likes what they like.

But the fact that anyone could feel this way is such an absurdly foreign concept to me that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

 

[Real Hero]

I really don't like this as I detest breakable weapon as I see no point in working hard to obtain a powerful weapon only for it to break later down the line,

From everything we have seen a big part of the game will be planning ahead and bringing the right amount of weapons etc or adapting on the fly. I doubt the game will have many weapons that it wants you to get attached to/

 

[Enduin]

Yeah. Too harsh.

So what does traditional mean to you?

I see traditional as, theme dungeon and need to find special item to solve dungeon and beat boss with special item. Boss has special introductory title.

Plus Heart container at the end

If that's your definition I think you'll be disappointed.

I'm more inclined to think that the traditional-ish dungeons will be a lot more free form than normal. Think of a structure much like the Temple of Time, but a lot bigger with various floors and obstacles in our way. It won't have the same 1 solution puzzles and rooms where you need to hit a switch or acquire keys that we are used to. But it will rely on us using a number of our abilities with possibly multiple solutions to a given obstacle in order to progress through it.

Like a section where you can skip a room by climbing up a big wall to another floor if you have enough stamina, but if not there is a doorway to another room with rubble you burn or blow up to get past. That next room requires you to do something else to go forward eventually leading to a stair case up to the next floor.

No explicit theme and no unique item that everything is focused on, but more about allowing players to use a variety of means at their disposal and the major systems baked into the game to traverse and advance through the location. A traditional boss is likely but possibly not with a Heart container at the end or anything.

I think the Shrines will operate as the classic puzzle zones with very specific solutions to problems, almost like the training grounds for the basics of how Runes and items can be used in the game, where as the traditional dungeons might actually be more condensed representations of the game's overworld and overall gameplay of having the player a greater degree of freedom to experiment and find solutions to problems, using what they learned in the Shrines in more non-conventional ways to progress.

But I could be totally wrong. This is also as much how I'm hoping things turn out in addition to how I think they might.

 

[DecoReturns]

If that's your definition I think you'll be disappointed.

I'm more inclined to think that the traditional-ish dungeons will be a lot more free form than normal. Think of a structure much like the Temple of Time, but a lot bigger with various floors and obstacles in our way. It won't have the same 1 solution puzzles and rooms where you need to hit a switch or acquire keys that we are used to. But it will rely on us using a number of our abilities with possibly multiple solutions to a given obstacle in order to progress through it.

Like a section where you can skip a room by climbing up a big wall to another floor if you have enough stamina, but if not there is a doorway to another room with rubble you burn or blow up to get past. That next room requires you to do something else to go forward eventually leading to a stair case up to the next floor.

No explicit theme and no unique item that everything is focused on, but more about allowing players to use a variety of means at their disposal and the major systems baked into the game to traverse and advance through the location. A traditional boss is likely but possibly not with a Heart container at the end or anything.

I think the Shrines will operate as the classic puzzle zones with very specific solutions to problems, almost like the training grounds for the basics of how Runes and items can be used in the game, where as the traditional dungeons might actually be more condensed representations of the game's overworld and overall gameplay of having the player a greater degree of freedom to experiment and find solutions to problems, using what they learned in the Shrines in more non-conventional ways to progress.

But I could be totally wrong. This is also as much how I'm hoping things turn out in addition to how I think they might.

I don't care about the traditional dungeons aspects. I just want creative puzzles to solve. My definition comes from how previous Zelda games handled dungeons.

I'm excited to see how they change things up here.

 

[Plum]

If that's your definition I think you'll be disappointed.

I'm more inclined to think that the traditional-ish dungeons will be a lot more free form than normal. Think of a structure much like the Temple of Time, but a lot bigger with various floors and obstacles in our way. It won't have the same 1 solution puzzles and rooms where you need to hit a switch or acquire keys that we are used to. But it will rely on us using a number of our abilities with possibly multiple solutions to a given obstacle in order to progress through it.

Like a section where you can skip a room by climbing up a big wall to another floor if you have enough stamina, but if not there is a doorway to another room with rubble you burn or blow up to get past. That next room requires you to do something else to go forward eventually leading to a stair case up to the next floor.

No explicit theme and no unique item that everything is focused on, but more about allowing players to use a variety of means at their disposal and the major systems baked into the game to traverse and advance through the location. A traditional boss is likely but possibly not with a Heart container at the end or anything.

I think the Shrines will operate as the classic puzzle zones with very specific solutions to problems, almost like the training grounds for the basics of how Runes and items can be used in the game, where as the traditional dungeons might actually be more condensed representations of the game's overworld and overall gameplay of having the player a greater degree of freedom to experiment and find solutions to problems, using what they learned in the Shrines in more non-conventional ways to progress.

But I could be totally wrong. This is also as much how I'm hoping things turn out in addition to how I think they might.

If I were to make any assumptions on the dungeon structure this would be it. Previous Zelda game dungeons had that formula because dungeons were, for the most part, the only places where that "get item, use item, win" formula could happen so of course the dungeons were designed that way. In a game so wildly different to its predecessors I don't see why Nintendo would keep the exact same formula when they don't even have to have it in due to the massive world and 120 Shrines. They should be allowed to do something wildly different.

 

[TheMoon]

The full quote from the original OP:

This at the very least implies that the "bigger and more complex" things are just bigger shrines, that are identical or similar to other shrines in their entrance, purpose, and aesthetic. You could certainly read that quote and assume that there are no dungeons separate from the shrines.

That said, for people following all of this very closely, we have confirmation probably a dozen times now that there will be dungeons separate from shrines. It's just that this particular translation above seems to imply the opposite.

The only way I can read it like that is if I ignore the quotation marks around "themed" which put emphasis on that word alone meaning the statement can be broken down to:

There are no more "themed" dungeons -> There are are dungeons. But there are no more dungeons which are themed according to the environment they appear in.

Since that is the editorialized summary of the article and we have an alternate take in on now anyway that only further supports this notion I think this was the right way to read the original bit.

 

[marc^o^]

New piece of information from a jeuxvideo.com interview:

DLC after release is not excluded.
Source: http://www.jeuxvideo.com/videos/chr...-producteur-du-jeu-repond-a-nos-questions.htm

 

[LegendofLex]

New piece of information from a jeuxvideo.com interview:

DLC after release is not excluded.
Source: http://www.jeuxvideo.com/videos/chr...-producteur-du-jeu-repond-a-nos-questions.htm

A "Second Quest" where you play as Zelda would make great DLC.

 

[Skittzo0413]

The only way I can read it like that is if I ignore the quotation marks around "themed" which put emphasis on that word alone meaning the statement can be broken down to:

There are no more "themed" dungeons -> There are are dungeons. But there are no more dungeons which are themed according to the environment they appear in.

Since that is the editorialized summary of the article and we have an alternate take in on now anyway that only further supports this notion I think this was the right way to read the original bit.

I think to me it's more the way the quote combined dungeons and shrines in the same thought:

"However, there’s no more “themed” dungeons: if a shrine is found in a forest, it will not necessarily have a forest theme."

This (initially) said to me, "there are no more themed dungeons/shrines, since shrines share similar aesthetics, you won't see a shrine in the forest with a forest theme"

I don't disagree with you that the further clarification has changed the reading of that quite a bit- I'm just pointing out how this is so easy to misunderstand from just that initial quote. It's not a case of people reading improperly, it's a case of a very confusing and poorly worded translation.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Put me down for heavily disliking breakable weapons. I don't mind if weapons you find from enemies are breakable. low/mid tier shit should be as such.

But if there aren't some high tier weapons that won't break or take a LOT to break to the point you wouldn't really be bothered by it, then that's going to bother me. I've never liked weapon degradation in a game. And if weapons being damaged is a thing, at the very least have a system where you can maintain/fix the weapons yourselves.

If every single weapon in this game bar the Master Sword breaks and breaks quickly, that's going to bother me quite a lot. It's going to be where instead of farming enemies for EXP, I'll have to farm enemies for fucking weapons that I like if they break in a few hits.

 

[Nickle]

Tbh I'd rather have them get to work on the next game then work on DLC.

 

[Evil's Bane]

I like the idea of forcing the player to use what they can find. Adds to the survival theme. I hope permanent weapons are an option for those who prefer that though.

 

[Svafnir]

I like the idea of forcing the player to use what they can find. Adds to the survival theme. I hope permanent weapons are an option for those who prefer that though.

Master sword will be permanent I think. Also even more meaningful in this game as it does not break.

 

[Peléo]

I don't care about the traditional dungeons aspects. I just want creative puzzles to solve. My definition comes from how previous Zelda games handled dungeons.

I'm excited to see how they change things up here.

Your mention of creative puzzles reminded me of this section from the previous E3, where Bill plays one of the shrines with an interviewer:

https://youtu.be/3sYTaru5RhA?t=30m28s

I timestamped the moment in which he comes up with a completely different solution for the obstacle. The fact most of the puzzles will be based on physics instead of the traditional key-lock approach means your wish of creative puzzles will be fulfilled.

 

[Song of Fire]

I just wanted to point something out about this image here, which I thought was rather interesting: this guy's face looks very familiar to me, even if I cannot quite place where I have seen it before. Maybe his head is on upside down?

The screenshot with the Shiekah warrior could take place in a arena or something like that, doesn't necessarily mean that this is a shrine.

Of course, maybe it was talked about before. I haven't really been doing the best at keeping up with everything.

In any case, what would happen if the dungeons in this game were integrated seamlessly into the overworld, say, delving deep into the mountain or trudging through a swamp? If it's not specifically denoted to be a dungeon, how likely is it people will decry the game's lack of "real" dungeons?

Sure, that's a good policy, but in this case believing there will be no dungeons of any kind at all despite so much evidence (that hasn't been countered with any actual evidence so far) is just needlessly cynical. With Raiden (and, to use duckroll's analogy) the idea of a boss team in MGSV both had no reference whatsoever in interviews, trailers, promotional material, anything, that just isn't the case with Breath of the Wild.

Basically there's more evidence to suggest the inclusion of dungeons than there is to suggest their complete removal (or change into Shrines).

This seems like a reasonable way to think about this. If the presence of dungeons as something different from the shrines has been confirmed numerous times, should it not be safe to assume they know better than to lie about something like that?

I saw the comma as you asking the question to Bowser, who I just assumed was a username here. Don't know whether it's your bad for grammer or my bad for being stupid

Just a bit of a tangent, here, but I think that, grammatically, the sentence in question did quite well at stating that Bowser, and always the same Bowser, is the boss at the end of each dungeon.

For instance, "Link goes on an epic journey to save the land of Hyrule with his friend Ganondorf" is distinct from "Link goes on an epic journey to save the land of Hyrule with his [only] friend, Ganondorf," differentiated only by a single comma and brackets. Not that you should take such a misunderstanding hard at all; commas themselves can be rather tricky.

I don't get why people are allowed to be condescending toward others who may have concerns. I don't appreciate being talked down to.

I'm not sure it's an issue of being condescending, per se, but rather the lack of tone being able to be conveyed through text. If I understand correctly, your concern does not take into account the various times dungeons have been confirmed as being something separate from the shrines, and that you rather express concern that, as we have not seen it, it is not likely to be? I think people may just be trying to point out that dungeons -apart from shrines- have been confirmed to be present and that a translation from Japanese to French to English could very well have some manner of misinformation.

I like the idea of forcing the player to use what they can find. Adds to the survival theme.

I'm liking what I see of this too; it looks very engaging in the manner that they have done it.

 

[Joeshabadoo]

I too feel as though they're handling weapon degradation well in this game. That sais I'm also fairly confident that some sort of system for repairing weapons will come in during the game, and certain weapons will be FAR more durable

 

[flintstryker]

You know, if there aren't traditional dungeons, remind me to come back here and ban everyone who said "reading comprehension" for six months.

Ban me permanently if that's the case

 

[RagnarokX]

I'm not hating, everyone likes what they like.

But the fact that anyone could feel this way is such an absurdly foreign concept to me that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

I enjoy exploring a good world; and BotW's world certainly looks great and I can't wait to explore it... But the thing that makes Zelda stand out are the intricate dungeons and puzzles. No matter how neat the world is in games it generally boils down to filler between the really good parts. Like the most beautiful salad in the world with 4 pieces of chicken in it and 120 cheese flakes.

There are 120 shrines. Hopefully enough of them will be satisfying. None of the 7 or so we've seen have really stood out and the ones off the plateau have been even weaker than the required ones. It's concerning that there are only 6 slots for runes. You get 5 of them at the start of the game and 2 of them are bombs. Hopefully more complicated puzzles require stuff like lightning rods. It's also a concern that all of the shrines share aesthetics.

I really hope this game has good dungeons. It's scary they haven't really shown one. I don't want this to be another Tomb Raider.
Hopefully that lava cave is one.

 

[Kamek Koopa]

I just wanted to point something out about this image here, which I thought was rather interesting: this guy's face looks very familiar to me, even if I cannot quite place where I have seen it before. Maybe his head is on upside down?

If I'm not wrong I think he is wearing something that looks a lot like the Mask of truth from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

It's concerning that there are only 6 slots for runes. You get 5 of them at the start of the game and 2 of them are bombs.

Is this confirmed by recent media? At E3 I thought there were only six because it was a demo.

 

[FloweryMarston]

I understand people's worries, and the only thing right now that we can do is trust aonuma's words on the various interviews. So i see no problem for people to take the wait and see approach.

I think the game will have dungeons in the form of the divine beasts, and we may have seen some of these beasts interiors in the botw trailer. The deisng of them is similar to the shrines, bu they don't share the blueish color of the interiors, rather the corrupted purple. That's not to say that the world itself won't have other caves and interiors that can have different ways of navigation, essentially integrating dungeon-esque elements into the world. The world also is much more of an emphasis than past titles, so navigating and exploring it will be much more worthwhile than past 3d titles.

 

[dampflokfreund]

Take a look at this structure.

Now... what's the difference in these structures?

The Gear-Room one is red, which means its corrupted. While the orange-one in the regular shrine is not.

And what is corrupted by the Calamity Ganon?

Spoiler

Right, the 4 Guardians.

Case closed. The 4 Guardians are the dungeons. This one will likely take place in the Desert Guardian considering its square form

Since they all have the same machine theme, its disappointing but its better than having no dungeons at all.

 

[sanstesy]

From the start it has been clear that puzzle-solving will heavily revolve around the runes which interact with the physics engine and that is absolutely not a bad thing. The typical one-dimensional puzzle solving with items that are only applicable to very one-dimensional situations have been replaced with a system that has more than ever unlimited & varied puzzle potential. You don't need 15 original items here to get some good puzzle-solving. That also makes it possible for the game to be completely nonlinear as you don't need to have this one item that only works on this one puzzle to progress in a direction.

 

[FloweryMarston]

Take a look at this structure.

Now... what's the difference in these structures?

The Gear-Room one is red, which means its corrupted. While the orange-one in the regular shrine is not.

And what is corrupted by the Calamity Ganon?

Spoiler

Right, the 4 Guardians.

Case closed. The 4 Guardians are the dungeons. This one will likely take place in the Desert Guardian considering its square form

Since they all have the same machine theme, its disappointing but its better than having no dungeons at all.

Yeah, that's what i expect from the dungeons of the game.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

You know, if there aren't traditional dungeons, remind me to come back here and ban everyone who said "reading comprehension" for six months.

What happen if it is reading comprehension tho?

 

[Nickle]

Take a look at this structure.

Now... what's the difference in these structures?

The Gear-Room one is red, which means its corrupted. While the orange-one in the regular shrine is not.

And what is corrupted by the Calamity Ganon?

Spoiler

Right, the 4 Guardians.

Case closed. The 4 Guardians are the dungeons. This one will likely take place in the Desert Guardian considering its square form

Since they all have the same machine theme, its disappointing but its better than having no dungeons at all.

That doesn't confirm that the guardians are the only dungeons, it just confirms that guardians have shrine-like interiors.

 

[Joeshabadoo]

I think a key thing here is that we really need to try not to get obsessively caught up in the minutia pre-release. It's abundantly clear that this game is taking a gigantic amount of new steps in new directions, which is both bold and scary for such a hallowed series. I can understand concerns, but in the end we need to try and just let this game wash over us for whatever it is. Sure, pure objectivity is impossible, but we can approach it with a certain amount of trust and see how we feel on the other side (assuming you feel compelled, moment to moment, to get to that other side)

In the same translated interview today Aonuma goes deep in to the fact that he and the massive development team dont exist in a vacuum and have played a wide array of open world games. They understand them deeply; the most compelling and most problematic aspects. We heard it in his own words today that the team, as a singular force, were determined to not simply take a 'me too' approach. Rather, they are intimately familiar with the core and soul of this franchise and have been sculpting this game with everything in mind to feel both brand new and magically familiar.

I, for one, am ready. Ready for all the nooks and crannies of this nearly 5 year project. Not looking to dissect it in the way the strategy guide sort of already seeks to (I understand that's the job of the guide people)

 

[LegendofLex]

Take a look at this structure.

Now... what's the difference in these structures?

The Gear-Room one is red, which means its corrupted. While the orange-one in the regular shrine is not.

And what is corrupted by the Calamity Ganon?

Spoiler

Right, the 4 Guardians.

Case closed. The 4 Guardians are the dungeons. This one will likely take place in the Desert Guardian considering its square form

Since they all have the same machine theme, its disappointing but its better than having no dungeons at all.

It's kind of reaching to say that those are the only dungeons just based on having seen a couple of them.

 

[ryechu]

It's kind of reaching to say that those are the only dungeons just based on having seen a couple of them.

More like jumping to conclusions. Reaching is when there is little no no evidence for a certain conclusion and one uses questionable logic and inferences to get to that conclusion.

In this case, we have a rumor that there are over a hundred mini-dungeons and 4 major dungeons. Which was followed much later by confirmation of said number of mini-dungeons and 4 large mechs that are integral to the backstory of BotW.

The four mechs correspond the the 4 elements which could suggest their dungeon theming, and several interviews from Aonuma stating that the dungeons will serve a different purpose than the shrines:

"And speaking about the bigger dungeons with bosses they actually serve a completely different purpose than the shrines and so the reason that Link has to go to those dungeons is different than the reason he has to go to the shrines."

The shrines are incentives to keep exploring, giving you currency to increase your stamina or health. From Aonuma's comment that the incentive is "different, it seems the dungeons are story related. If we take the leaks to heart, we know of 4 big entities in this world that are story related. It is not a reach to assume that they might be the dungeons. However, nothing is proven. They could be plot elements, bosses, the actual dungeons might be nearby with the key to uncorrupt them inside. We don't know. But I feel like there is enough evidence that suggest they will tie into the main structure of progressing through the game.

Also Aonuma has stated that one limitation of Link's climbing is smooth walls like those seen in Shiekah tech areas. The environmental puzzle solving will be inherently different in these areas since link cannot climb over obstacles. I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the majority of dungeons in this game will feature smooth walls (sheikah technology), especially if they are similar to classic dungeons. Dungeons will be different than overworld puzzles in that you can just climb and glide to where you need to go in addition room-like structure of dungeons (hopefully with keys and doors).

 

[LegendofLex]

Let me put what I said another way:

Even if the four guardians are dungeons, and are the four most prominent objectives in completing the game, that doesn't mean they are the only dungeons in the game that aren't shrine mini-dungeons.

 

[HylianTom]

Let me put what I said another way:

Even if the four guardians are dungeons, and are the four most prominent objectives in completing the game, that doesn't mean they are the only dungeons in the game that aren't shrine mini-dungeons.

Yeah, we simply don't know enough at this point. There could be Something Big that happens after the four guardians are neutralized.

 

[Moff]

Since last E3 I always suspected that this Zelda will take place 95% in the overworld and the mini shrines.
Exploration, crafting, surviving, non scripted dynamic personal experiences. This is what this zelda is about.

I am really excited to play this because I am super burned out of the traditional concept after TP and SS, but I am not sure if I'll love it and I expect it to be very controversial.

 

[Wandering Robot]

I imagine having weapon degradation would put a higher onus on the character to get out in the wild and explore. I don't have a problem with it either way, but it ties in with the theme pretty well.

 

[ryechu]

Let me put what I said another way:

Even if the four guardians are dungeons, and are the four most prominent objectives in completing the game, that doesn't mean they are the only dungeons in the game that aren't shrine mini-dungeons.

I agree. I feel like the only reason some think that there will be only 4 dungeons is because of the rumor.

 

[Mael]

Yeah, we simply don't know enough at this point. There could be Something Big that happens after the four guardians are neutralized.

Or there could be other dungeon-style places like in Majora's Mask where there are some areas that function as mini dungeons or something.
We'll know in a little more than a month.

 

[duckroll]

What happen if it is reading comprehension tho?

Then people would not have to find quote after quote try and justify or "explain" the wording in another quote, or have to pull screens from a trailer to explain what they -think- it could mean. This isn't a reading comprehension problem no matter how much of a douche The Moon tries to be. This is a case of a creator being vague for whatever reason, and fans drawing conclusions from that. Some conclusions will be positive, others will be negative.

The fact remains - no one in this thread can actually say they know for sure what a "dungeon" in BotW is like, as opposed to a shrine. The game comes out in a month. That alone is worth talking about. Trying to shut it down with "hurr hurr already debunked!" and "loool reading comprehension", etc is just The Moon being The Moon.

If they plan on booting the traditional dungeon out, I wonder how they'll replace them.

I imagine bigger areas where you have to hunt those beasts we saw in the trailer down. That would be pretty organic and fit into the "wild" theme.

We actually had some discussion about this earlier in the thread, at least until Mr Reading Comprehension came back.

This lines up with what I was expecting, so no surprises here.

The big dungeons will be

Spoiler

inside the Divine Guardians

and all look pretty much the same. There won't be any Forest/water/desert dungeons, but I think the overworld will progress into these kinds of areas more than in previous games to make up for that. The place with the firebreathing Lizalfos in the trailer is a good example, the overworld will extend into Death Mountain. In short, no more themed dungeons, but a more varied and themed overworld.

Speculation, obviously.

This is a good observation and also something I've been musing. I think that it's possible that in creating the open world, they might be trying to translate the concept of traditional dungeons into parts of the world itself rather than just interiors. We have in fact already seen this with the desert dungeon in Skyward Sword.

But it's all in the execution. They really have to get the feel right. If it ends up feeling like the themed experience of a new area is no longer there, then they lose the magic.

 

[Evil's Bane]

We already saw some of that in the Game Awards footage to be honest. Link sneaking into a more heavily patrolled area full of stronger enemies with a challenge at the end. It reminded me of a dungeon but more freeform with how you approach it. If this same logic is applied to other areas in the overworld with lots of variety I don't know if I'd even miss dungeons much, assuming they're gone or changed.

 

[Skittzo0413]

The fact remains - no one in this thread can actually say they know for sure what a "dungeon" in BotW is like, as opposed to a shrine. The game comes out in a month. That alone is worth talking about. Trying to shut it down with "hurr hurr already debunked!" and "loool reading comprehension", etc is just The Moon being The Moon.

To be fair, many people in this and other threads have been worrying or assuming that there will be no dungeons at all separate from the shrines, when several Aonuma quotes have confirmed that there indeed are. Of course we have no idea what they comprise but we can be quite confident that they exist. So I can understand the frustration some may get when having to repeat this time and time again.

And yeah I'll agree on the quote in the OP being a very poor and misleading translation, so this confusion was definitely understandable.

 

[duckroll]

I use "dungeons" as shorthand, but like I've repeatedly said in the thread, the magic of Zelda when it comes to level design is in having uniquely themed and memorable stages where you discover the use of a new tool or weapon, use it to solve puzzles to progress, and then get to a sort of "exam" with the boss where you have to use what you learned to defeat it. It's a very compelling formula which very few games do right. That's why even in weaker Zelda titles, there's a satisfaction I get from them I can't get anywhere else.

 

[whyamihere]

Take a look at this structure.

Now... what's the difference in these structures?

The Gear-Room one is red, which means its corrupted. While the orange-one in the regular shrine is not.

And what is corrupted by the Calamity Ganon?

Spoiler

Right, the 4 Guardians.

Case closed. The 4 Guardians are the dungeons. This one will likely take place in the Desert Guardian considering its square form

Since they all have the same machine theme, its disappointing but its better than having no dungeons at all.

I expect this as well.

 

[jblank83]

I use "dungeons" as shorthand, but like I've repeatedly said in the thread, the magic of Zelda when it comes to level design is in having uniquely themed and memorable stages where you discover the use of a new tool or weapon, use it to solve puzzles to progress, and then get to a sort of "exam" with the boss where you have to use what you learned to defeat it. It's a very compelling formula which very few games do right. That's why even in weaker Zelda titles, there's a satisfaction I get from them I can't get anywhere else.

I can see why you would like that, however I would argue Zelda can be and is different things to different people. Further, Zelda (and any game series really) can and should continually analyze its core design to ensure that it is still relevant, still engaging, and still allows for creativity and innovation. Case in point is that Zelda recently has come under increasing criticism for being "stale". A large part of that is that, just as Aonuma says, you have a forest area with a forest dungeon, a desert area with a desert dungeon, and so on. It's predictable, which makes it boring.

I don't want every dungeon to be the exact same wall texture and layout, but, just personally, I have no problem with this sort of formulaic conceit being done away with. I very much doubt it will get rid of the "training > exam" design though. We've already seen how shrines, at least, give progressively more challenging puzzles.

 

[Chill Penguin]

I would rather not see the fanbase demand what they want in a Zelda game. Nintendo is at their best when they try and give us what we didn't know we wanted. There's inevitably going to be a back lash to this game though, just like there is with every release since ocarina of time. Then a year passes and everyone realizes how brilliant the game was.

 

[FloweryMarston]

I use "dungeons" as shorthand, but like I've repeatedly said in the thread, the magic of Zelda when it comes to level design is in having uniquely themed and memorable stages where you discover the use of a new tool or weapon, use it to solve puzzles to progress, and then get to a sort of "exam" with the boss where you have to use what you learned to defeat it. It's a very compelling formula which very few games do right. That's why even in weaker Zelda titles, there's a satisfaction I get from them I can't get anywhere else.

I'm sure we will get this even outside of dungeons.

 

[duckroll]

A large part of that is that, just as Aonuma says, you have a forest area with a forest dungeon, a desert area with a desert dungeon, and so on. It's predictable, which makes it boring.

Yeah I don't really care about "traditional themes" so much as there being themes to begin with. Which is why I think the original quote was almost certainly something lost in translation. The Forest/Desert/Volcano/Water stuff is predictable, and it's the same problem Bioware had for many of their games for years. It's the progression formula in the narrative which gets boring, not the core game loop within dungeons.

I don't care if "dungeons" are interior or exterior areas. I don't care that they have to stick to previously established elemental themes. What I care about is uniqueness and the sense of an area being self-contained with a series of challenges that introduce the player to new mechanics which are then used to defeat the final challenge.

Iron Boots + Magnetic Fields in Twilight Princess. The Whip being used for both combat and traversal in Skyward Sword. These are the magical things about a new Zelda game. And having to use these fresh concepts to beat a good boss battle is reaaaaaaaaaaally fun and satisfying.

 

[Enduin]

I use "dungeons" as shorthand, but like I've repeatedly said in the thread, the magic of Zelda when it comes to level design is in having uniquely themed and memorable stages where you discover the use of a new tool or weapon, use it to solve puzzles to progress, and then get to a sort of "exam" with the boss where you have to use what you learned to defeat it. It's a very compelling formula which very few games do right. That's why even in weaker Zelda titles, there's a satisfaction I get from them I can't get anywhere else.

There is little doubt in my mind that this general formula will remain in BotW. Exactly how closely or not it follows past game's rather rote use of it is the main question to me. I do think the idea of unique items you acquire in that location to then use in series of puzzles in preparation for an end boss is very much suspect and the most likely tenet to be missing. But I imagine the rest will remain in some fashion.

As I posited earlier I think that the Shrines will act more as training grounds for the core set of tools we'll have at our disposal throughout the game. Those being the Runes and certain weapons like Bow & Arrows, Axes and Hammers. Along with also being the main source of traditional puzzles. While the non Shrine dungeons, which I think may be far less formally structured than previous titles, will be the exam so to speak, in testing our ability to take the lessons from the very artificial setting of the Shrines to more ambiguous and organic locations out in the world.

I think this is bolstered by some facts we know and some that are rumored. Simply the way the Shrines are presented appear to be testing grounds for the player. I mean the are literally called the "Shrines of Trials." With the Sheikah Monks at the end bestowing upon us their Spirit Orbs as prize for our overcoming the challenges they created. From there unconfirmed reports have stated that these Spirit Orbs are what will be used to increase our Hearts and Stamina. Which doesn't seem that far fetched and would fit in line with the idea that these Shrines are literally training grounds for a hero. Where we are learning to use the tools of the Sheikah Slate and other traditional weapons to overcome obstacles and defeat enemies and our reward for overcoming these Trials are the means to further strengthen our character's health and stamina.

I also still think there is a good chance that the lead up to these Divine Beasts which many think are the 4 rumored dungeons and thus just slightly larger Shrines are only half of the equation. It is totally possible that all there is to them is us finding them and climbing on top of them to find an entrance and that's it, but I have a feeling it will require a bit more than that, which will be a more traditional style dungeon that we will have to overcome first in order to either get to the location necessary to enter the beasts and or to lure them or perform some function in order to make entry possible.

 

[mStudios]

Just listen to Aonuma himself about how puzzles are going to be:

https://youtu.be/oz2JoO91dCk?t=123

 

[Mr-Joker]

I'm not hating, everyone likes what they like.

But the fact that anyone could feel this way is such an absurdly foreign concept to me that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

Unlike most Zelda fans I have no nostalgia for the first Zelda game as I never played it and Breath of the Wild seems to be putting a bigger focus on exploration which something I am not really interested in as I prefer Dungeon, talking to townfolks and getting engross in the story.

Plus the fact that I didn't enjoy their last Zelda game Link Between World and the whole deal with voice acting nonsense is the other factor to why I am not enamored with the game just yet.

However having said that I still have the game pre-order as I fully intend to give the game a chance but I am deliberately keeping my hype down low on the off chance that i don't end up enjoying it like I did with past Zelda games.

From everything we have seen a big part of the game will be planning ahead and bringing the right amount of weapons etc or adapting on the fly. I doubt the game will have many weapons that it wants you to get attached to/

I still think it's dumb as what will really happen is that I will just end up stockpiling weapons, avoid in making them stronger, avoid fighting enemies and dread when I have to fight them as I don't want to lose the weapons, especially if I worked hard to obtain it.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

How much do you guys want to bet that there will be a Shrine that mimics the function of the "Savage Labyrinth" from Wind Waker and "Cave of Ordeals" from Twilight Princess? I'm thinking we're pretty much guaranteed one this time around considering the emphasis on consumable health restoring items.