BusierDonkey
Member
Even though in each image posted from GTS, the paint colors were completely wrong. Maybe it's not his fault, perhaps his Sony TV has the same performance issues GTS has? 
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
You have often cheated on us with Capture from YouTube or PC version low setting, but those images are not compressed.
Polyphony digital has lost both sales and trust in GTS, so I do not think that new work will come out.
But please believe that you will have GTS2 within 10 years. lol
goodbye
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Mad thing is one is from gameplay while the other is from photomode, even then its not even close. Also on pc all these reflections are 60+fps, in motion it looks even better.
LostDonkey
Member
If you notice on the wheel hub its even reflecting the clouds moving through the sky where as GT is using a fake reflection.
BusierDonkey
Member
I know I've already posted this but it fits the conversation. Even the drones show up in the reflection (It did even in FH3)
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LostDonkey
Member
Yeah, how anyone can say that GT Sports reflections are anywhere near Forzas is laughable. And its been said in this thread that they are because of their higher refresh (on console only mind).
I think the way to sum it up really is consistency. GT has absolutely massive highs when the lighting is just right but the cutbacks to achieve it and the insanely low lows are a huge blow. Forza on the other hand seems consistently good in most areas never hits that low of GT. I mean driving round the Fuji track in clear conditions its like playing GT5 on PS3 it looks really last gen.
I think the way to sum it up really is consistency. GT has absolutely massive highs when the lighting is just right but the cutbacks to achieve it and the insanely low lows are a huge blow. Forza on the other hand seems consistently good in most areas never hits that low of GT. I mean driving round the Fuji track in clear conditions its like playing GT5 on PS3 it looks really last gen.
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BusierDonkey
Member
transformer
Member
Nice joke post.
Bani
Member
My God, Wooow,What a difference, hard to believe that the games on the next gene will take off the throne easily this game, incredible,forza horizon 4 graphicly is just amazing
TBiddy
Member
Wtf. That has got to be a bug. Even for GTS, that looks weird.
LostDonkey
Member
The reflections in GTS are horrible. They may update at 60hz but they are inaccurate, blocky and decidedly last generation at best.
If you look back in this thread they have.
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Wow. The Alcanara is perfect.cockpit view
Gingen
Banned
GTS 8K 120fps with full lod cars ingame....
the nextgen is near, and when GT7 will come on PS5 a lot of GT haters here will cry blood tears.... for the moment you can continue with your stupid comparisons between standard PS4 and 2000 $ PC if it is the only thing that makes you feel better
the nextgen is near, and when GT7 will come on PS5 a lot of GT haters here will cry blood tears.... for the moment you can continue with your stupid comparisons between standard PS4 and 2000 $ PC if it is the only thing that makes you feel better
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There are so many wrong things in your post I really don't know where to start. Well, at least you quietly aknowledged some of the weakenesses of GT:S.
Let's wait a couple of years and see what next gen is made of then...I doubt everyone else will just sit on their knees meanwhile..
TBiddy
Member
So sometime in 2024? And do you really think GT7 will run at 8k 120 fps?
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
I think overall FH4 looks better. But GT:S does have some rare moments when it nearly matches real life.
Given they use precalculated ray tracing, they need only update their lighting in a future update, to basically match their latest vid, 120fps nor 8k are necessary to drastically improve graphics. And if they keep using precalculated stuff even the base ps4 should be able to handle it.
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LostDonkey
Member
GTS 8K 120fps with full lod cars ingame....
the nextgen is near, and when GT7 will come on PS5 a lot of GT haters here will cry blood tears.... for the moment you can continue with your stupid comparisons between standard PS4 and 2000 $ PC if it is the only thing that makes you feel better
What does this have to do with this thread at all other than to incite argument about the possibilities of a game that isnt even confirmed yet on a platform that hasnt been officially announced.
Nonsense post.
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transformer
Member
I think this post highlights the biggest issue with the GT series right now. The graphics technology is, in my opinion, the best out there. However, it fails to translate to actual game play graphics. Sure, photo mode and scapes mode look great. Arguably better than any other racing game. Given the hardware to run the models and graphics engine at 8k, even more so. But none of this is actually possible at the moment for any of us. We are stuck with the PS4 running the game. When running on a PS4, pro or base version, the game play graphics look nothing like replay, scapes, or the 8k mode shown here. Models are downgraded, graphic effects are downgraded, resolution is downgraded, weather/time of day transitions are downgraded from PS3 versions of GT, etc. I really wish more effort was put into game play graphics and elements as opposed to building models that can't be used in game play, a 8k demo and scapes mode.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
holy shit, I never would have thought to check this. Amazing.
LostDonkey
Member
So therein lies my argument. What is it doing in this thread other than to provoke some kind of response from people. Its nothing to do with the subject of the thread. I may as well pull some bullshot pre rendered raytraced concept screenshot of a future unannounced game and enter that for comparison.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Yeah, PD's engine is really amazing but is limited by the hardware they run on. If GTS would launch on pc, it would look incredible and use all the high quality assets. Then it would be a different story between GTS vs Forza 7. But right now its limited and doesn't look as good as it could be, wich is a shame.
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BusierDonkey
Member
I think this thread has evolved over time though. I've lurked here since GAF was pretty new. For the most part the last bunch of posts seem quite reasonable, and people seem willing to concede on points. If you look at the people doing most of the posting now you have a mix of people from both "camps", and you have a large group of people who are having fun with the discussion. Car people tend to get defensive of their favorite cars, and video game fans tend to get defensive of their preferred system or games, and when you combine the two you need a dedicated thread for it. Lately though I'm seeing a lot more reason in the posting here, as I think most of the people still posting here own both games now. I'm actually at a loss as I can't post GTS shots of my own. People are posting obscure games like Wreckfest and including what they do best in the discussion. We're looking back to early current-gen games and discussing what they did better than their sequels. I think most people here now are reasonable and are interested in where things are headed in the racing genre with new hardware right over the horizon.
That said...
GTS 8K 120fps with full lod cars ingame....
the nextgen is near, and when GT7 will come on PS5 a lot of GT haters here will cry blood tears.... for the moment you can continue with your stupid comparisons between standard PS4 and 2000 $ PC if it is the only thing that makes you feel better
You're comparing videos of possible future visuals to games that have either been out for over a year (PCars2/FM7) or a month old title (FH4). Dude, the PS5 will not run gameplay at 8K/120FPS. If it does I'll eat my hair, which should be easy as most of my hair divorced itself from my head in my 30s. The console will have to hover around the $500 mark, and from what's been discussed there is a possibility that VR support hardware will be built into the system which will eat up budget. Even if it's just a game playing machine, it still needs to be hardware that will fit a $500-$600 budget. My PC is getting old, but the graphics card is still worth more than an X1X if I were to buy it new, and the newest cards top my setup. Even guys with multi-1080ti SLI OC'ed sub-zero rigs are not running a modern game at 8K/120fps so to pretend a $500 console will topple $4000 uber-rigs is a stretch if I'm to put it nicely. Nothing in your post matters anyways, the video shows no gameplay and the image is a group of people watching another video. Still no weather effects, no indication of TOD change or night races, and no gameplay improvements. Only a few cars are on screen casually driving through a tunnel. Do you happen to have any video of people playing this on a PS5 by chance? PD loves putting on magic shows using smoke and mirrors (even though GTS can't seem to render either in-game). Right now, in real life, people can play Horizon 4 or FM7 on the X1X, and overall they both look better than GTS does on the Pro. You don't need a $2000 PC, the X version is still better looking overall than GTS.
Your post mirrors my take on things right now. I'd take a better GT over a prettier GT any day. I want proper weather, night racing, tire smoke, improved gameplay. Scapes is an utter waste of time and resources and the main game suffers because less time was allocated to it. I've played through every full release and if GT7 is good I'll buy whatever console it's on to play it, but if it follows the GTS model any bit I'll sit that one out too. T10 is on my shit list too after FM5, 6, and 7 have had all the indications of being rushed to meet a two year deadline. While I think Driver86 is quite passionate and defensive of his game, I don't think he's looking at the series in terms of what it fails to do, rather glosses over the bad because of the good parts and his devotion to the game. What he doesn't seem to understand is that if a game were to release tomorrow that made FH4 look like shit, I would say it makes FH4 look like shit. Since I like al the games I don't tend to get hung up. Right now I'm playing more FM7 and FH4 because one is new, and the other has a year of updates and is running properly on PC, but there will be a better looking game in the future. Why that upsets anyone is beyond me.
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TheAdmiester
Member
I'm not gonna dive too deep into this right now, but I'm loving the double standard of "why bring PC into it, that makes the comparison unfair" before posting GTS footage that is either pre-rendered or running on an amazing PC/render farm.
thelastword
Banned
Well GTS already wins every 60fps racer in graphics and rendering technology, then you boost that at 4k or even 8k rez, then you get better IQ (which has been most of the debates for those in favor of Forza anyway)......Yet, this same GT, based on a 1.84TF base will even beat many next gen racers, far less current racers doing 4k 60fps on medium tier GPU's.......Truth is, Forza can already do 8k 60fps on current gen hardware (you scale rez at 200%).........GT needs next gen hardware to do so, only because the GPU footprint is that much higher.....GTS 8K 120fps with full lod cars ingame....
the nextgen is near, and when GT7 will come on PS5 a lot of GT haters here will cry blood tears.... for the moment you can continue with your stupid comparisons between standard PS4 and 2000 $ PC if it is the only thing that makes you feel better
Personally, I'd like to see GT7 at PS5's launch, but a GTS Remaster should be good enough, if KaZ needs another year to cook GT7 for 2021........A 4k 60fps GTS remaster with full lods and 8k assets "already in the engine" according to Kaz, should be a beauty, and at 10000 nits for those who have the TV to push such high quality HDR.....It's all there in GTS already, it's bar none the most ambitious racer we had this gen along with Driveclub......So there's no doubt that it will/would look amazing on next gen TV's...
GT next gen in VR, should be amazing too, it's a good thing I'm on the 120fps train next gen, especially for VR......I've already said 8k will be a thing next gen, mostly on remasters and AA titles at 60fps, maybe some AAA games at 30fps......At least next gen we know that the high resolutions will come with extremely ambitious rendering techniques from good ol' Kaz.......
A remastered GTS will be something like this I'm thinking;
Highest LOD Cars on Track
Better Textures (maybe 4k- 8k)
More Cars on track
Higher Resolution Effects (reflections, smoke etc..)
Better crowds (all 3d)
Better foliage (all 3d)
60fps in all scenarios (mirrors, replays etc, locked)
Even better occlusion, higher rez shadows etc...
And perhaps they might reintroduce dynamic weather, since many GTS systems are already dynamic...
TheAdmiester
Member
Woah, which next-gen games have you seen? That's pretty big news.
Or y'know, because GT isn't available on PC
It's probably running on 4 PS4s. They did the same with GT5 running on 4 PS3s. They had GT5 at 4k and 240fps.
BusierDonkey
Member
This guy can't catch a break pff. Its the same me posting this and saying this is next gen Forza in game full ray tracing, game over psboys
Same old shit over and over again.
T10 caught massive shit for this, and rightfully so. It was misleading and although that mesh has been used as the base for the in-game model since then, it was in no way indicative of how the game would look, even the Forzavista mode in FM4 wasn't close. PD does the exact same thing every gen and you have guys sticking up for it, happy to eat shovels full of Kaz manure. It's weird. It's always amused me that I will tear into FM over all sorts of things and that's just fine, but point out an issue in GT and I berated their God.
Kaz promised all this before, we got GT5 and GT6 which were rough by any standard with the mix match gen assets and apparent inability to implement any sort of AA. He made the same promises before GTS, and it's basically high resolution 1/3 GT6 when you actually get to the gameplay. I'll go ahead and pass on the snake oil "good ol' Kaz" likes to peddle from his 8K, 240fps cart. GTS, PC2, AC, DR, FH4 and FM7 are playable right now, imagination not required. When GT7 releases and looks better than everything by all means work that soap box, but you're still basing your entire argument on "what if"
benjohn
Member
But PD never does remasters. Considering their track record I don't get surprised if they even announce next GT for PS4
thelastword
Banned
Fair enough, but the thing about GTS is that it's a platform for continuos updates and content as opposed to the older games which mostly pushed SP content........I think it makes sense to port GTS over to PS5 in 2020 with enhanced visuals and graphical settings and continue the FIA championships till GT7 ships....That would be a very nice launch title to have with your typical NFS racers etc....."but only if they don't have GT7 ready for launch!!"....
transformer
Member
I remember thinking that GTS was going to have all this based on trailers, screenshots, etc. I was quite disappointed. I was also disappointed with GT5/6 for similar reasons (generally overpromising and underdelivering). I don't have any faith in PD delivering on what you claim here for GT on PS5. I've learned to take the wait and see approach and not put much faith in trailers, tech demos, rumors, etc when it comes to PD. Same for some other developers as well, but PD in general has been bad in this regard.
TBiddy
Member
No need for the hyperbole. GTS is a fantastic looking game at times. It has rough edges, as all other games, but it's far from "garbage".
Time spelled magic.
Time required from pressing the shoot button to displaying
0.5 fps
phil_t98
#SonyToo
GTS 8K 120fps with full lod cars ingame....
the nextgen is near, and when GT7 will come on PS5 a lot of GT haters here will cry blood tears.... for the moment you can continue with your stupid comparisons between standard PS4 and 2000 $ PC if it is the only thing that makes you feel better
as impressive as that looks, nobody is seen playing that in the footage. it could be rendered footage for all we know, until you see the hardware its running on I have to call BS at the moment even though the footage looks good
beat loose
Neo Member
I reserve the right to express opinion and in my opinion GT Sport looks like hot garbage.
Whitecrow
Banned
That opinion is factually wrong, with or without rights to express it.
G-A-R-B-A-G-E.
BusierDonkey
Member
You're of course welcome to that opinion, but the language you use isn't necessary. These kinds of statements are the kind that start flame wars and end up with a closed thread. Is that what you want? No more fun arguing over the Super Famicon, Mega Drive and the PCengine? I mean Forza, GTS, and Pcars2?
MDSLKTR
Member
P-O-S-T-H-I-S-T-O-R-Y
LostDonkey
Member
Ive been playing Forza 7 a lot and the ATD is stunning especially on reflections and surfaces.
Only just realised that the historic open wheel formula cars, when in hood cam, reflect the entire environment and even other cars fully on the super shiny section of the inner tyre wall.
Cant take or post screenshots right now but very impressive.
If anyone can grab a screen for me. Im playing PC on highest settings.
Does GTS do this or any other game for that matter?? Never noticed it before in a racer.
Only just realised that the historic open wheel formula cars, when in hood cam, reflect the entire environment and even other cars fully on the super shiny section of the inner tyre wall.
Cant take or post screenshots right now but very impressive.
If anyone can grab a screen for me. Im playing PC on highest settings.
Does GTS do this or any other game for that matter?? Never noticed it before in a racer.
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BusierDonkey
Member
I was going to grab you a screenshot, but it's not really an effect you see in a still shot. I'd need to post a video and I'm in the middle of building a Gundam. It's due to how the game handles the reflection in hood view. The game uses image data from the previous frame and UV maps it to the car in hood view where in other views it uses a cube map. The reflection can then show absolutely everything right down to particle effects, and the reflection updates at 60fps. This caused issues on consoles with certain cars where on some parts (like the lights on the Caterham) the cube-mapped reflections would update at half the rate the hood reflections updated. On PC this isn't an issue as reflections are all updated at the same rate as the game. In the other views other cars no longer reflect as they are not in the cube map. The cube maps are pretty detailed in FM7, including all road lines, and most of the major trackside detail. It misses many of the same details as GTS though. For instance, the ferris-wheel at Suzuka is not in the FM7 cubemap during gameplay or replays, only in photomode. Annoyingly, on PC there is no option to use the higher quality cubemaps in gameplay.
GTS (unless they updated it out) uses the same reflection on every car in gameplay. For example, if my car goes under a bridge, the reflection of the underside of the bridge will cross over my car. The car a second ahead of me will have the same bridge reflection at the same time. It's not something you notice unless you look for it, but if you have a few cars on screen at different distances it looks odd.
Jump back in that open wheel car, pop into 3rd person and drive around the track. You'll notice that even the greasy factory coating on the rubber tire sidewalls will pick up muted reflections off the environment. For example, head to Yas, and drive over the painted areas of the track or the checked rumble strips, any part of the car from the plastic dash, to the rubber sidewalls will show some form of reflection depending on the materials they are supposed to emulate. Drive enough and you'll notice the dirty tires no longer show reflection the same as they did when the tires were new. There are a lot of fun details like that in the game.
Forza Horizon's reflections are of course improved from FM7. They use the same process as FM7, but include so much more detail, down to small destructible objects like small rocks, and chunks of wood on the ground. It also uses a lot of screen space reflections. A game that really got and deserved a lot of acclaim for reflections is Driveclub. It uses all of the above, but also fallback reflections. Thanks to all this, the game has self-reflection on the cars which is something I don't think has been used in any other racing games.
GTS (unless they updated it out) uses the same reflection on every car in gameplay. For example, if my car goes under a bridge, the reflection of the underside of the bridge will cross over my car. The car a second ahead of me will have the same bridge reflection at the same time. It's not something you notice unless you look for it, but if you have a few cars on screen at different distances it looks odd.
Jump back in that open wheel car, pop into 3rd person and drive around the track. You'll notice that even the greasy factory coating on the rubber tire sidewalls will pick up muted reflections off the environment. For example, head to Yas, and drive over the painted areas of the track or the checked rumble strips, any part of the car from the plastic dash, to the rubber sidewalls will show some form of reflection depending on the materials they are supposed to emulate. Drive enough and you'll notice the dirty tires no longer show reflection the same as they did when the tires were new. There are a lot of fun details like that in the game.
Forza Horizon's reflections are of course improved from FM7. They use the same process as FM7, but include so much more detail, down to small destructible objects like small rocks, and chunks of wood on the ground. It also uses a lot of screen space reflections. A game that really got and deserved a lot of acclaim for reflections is Driveclub. It uses all of the above, but also fallback reflections. Thanks to all this, the game has self-reflection on the cars which is something I don't think has been used in any other racing games.
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Sebmugi
Member
WTF oO https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-tech-demo-real-time-ray-tracing-replay-movie-editor/
Ray tracing comming in GT Highly PS5/6 .. ^^
Ray tracing comming in GT Highly PS5/6 .. ^^
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