Jubenhimer
Member
Just remember, this is nothing new for Nintendo. They've always welcomed Mature and risque content since at least the DS. They're just actively pushing for it with the Switch.
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Nintendo wants mature games & JP 3rd parties slow to react
- Thread starter ggx2ac
- Start date
Jeez, it's almost adorable if it weren't sad.
I know, perceived image of Nintendo and all that, but how do you change these kind of stances.
Heartskips
Banned
This very thread proves people don't even bother checking their facts when it comes to Nintendo. People here thinking Nintendo "censors" third party games or saying successful games were "failures"... people aren't even reading the OP and complaining about "anime".
Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water I think.
Devil's Third came out a bit after that one.
Crankshaft
Member
None of those games were developed by Nintendo. Eternal Darkness, Devils Third or Fatal Frame were published by Nintendo not developed.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Kinda frustrating
JetSetRadio
Banned
Secondary platform gets secondary support.
ThisIsMyDogKyle
Banned
I kinda hope Retro's game is M, I feel like of the Nintendo studios they would do the best on an M game.
Nintendos never developed an M-rated game but theyve published several over the years.
N64 Conkers Bad Fur Day (Rareware) 2001
GCN Eternal Darkness: Sanitys Requiem (Silicon Knights) 2002
GCN Geist (n-Space) 2005
WIU Ninja Gaiden 3: Razors Edge (Team Ninja) 2012
WIU Bayonetta (Platinum Games) 2014
WIU Bayonetta 2 (Platinum Games) 2014
WIU Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water (Koei Tecmo) 2015
WIU Devils Third (Valhalla Game Studios) 2015
They wouldve had one if NOA had gone through publishing Disaster: Day of Crisis. It got an M-rating from the ESRB before it was canceled.
Cheezeman3000
Member
Joke's on them, I'm 31 and bought Mario & Rabbids. And I like it.
As per the CoD/Pokemon chart, the running gag is that it's little kids that care about the M on the box and adults that play the games stereotyped to only be for little kids.
Obviously it goes normally plenty of the time too, but there's a reason that one C.S. Lewis quote that gets passed around from time to time exists.
C.S. Lewis said:
They need more than 1 token game to get the "mature" games audience back. Doesn't matter if those games include Metroid or are new IPs.
On Wii U, they tried with Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third. Bayonetta was already a niche franchise as shown by the Bayonetta 1 sales and Sega dropping the IP. Devil's Third went through development hell and turned out bad. Overall, it was too little too late though.
Heck, they are lucky that Bethesda seems to go all in and will supply some "mature" games but else wise they would not have a non-cartoony shooter on the console just like they don't have any racing game with real cars (sim and arcade) right now.
People like to point out how much money Nintendo has made, even in the not so successful years. Still, they are not investing it in any way to get the Sony/MS audience back but rather rely on their backwards modus operandi (just look at the online system...), catering to their hardcore fans and hoping that the 3rd party will deliver the rest.
There are enough talented independent studios out their with whom they could work with.
TheDinoman
Member
For the record, Conker was published by Rare themselves. It was also published by THQ in certain regions. Nintendo clearly didn't want much to do with it.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Nintendo wants more nature games on their console as they'rd chasing the core red ocean. They still continue to make and develop family friendly games but they don't want 3rd parties to ditch the console based on that imagine.
Considering the they make up the majority of the Japanese domestic market and will likely grow in market share it makes sense.
Had a chance to sleep on this and here are a few more thoughts.
I think when most industry people/consumers say mature. What they really mean is they are looking for games that are targeting realistic graphics. For instance games like GT Sport, Forza 7, Project Cars ect would be viewed as "Mature" experiences. I can't think of the last Nintendo game that targeted realistic graphics. Even if its a stylized version like the Yakuza series or the Titanfall IP or pick your preferred example.
Ultimately i think thats where the disconnect with the audience exists.
Its also worth remembering that there are two types of M games. There is the light M that mostly gets there from violence/Swearing think CoD, Titanfall, Uncharted, Mass Effect ect and then there are your heavy M's full of over the top gore like Meatal Gear Rising, Mortal Combat, Doom ect
These games are very different niche's and should be treated as such.
Edit; Honestly Nintendo should just do what Disney does and have a seperate brand for the more mature games they publish. That way Nintendo can keep its family safe image while still enticing more mature games to their platform.
I think when most industry people/consumers say mature. What they really mean is they are looking for games that are targeting realistic graphics. For instance games like GT Sport, Forza 7, Project Cars ect would be viewed as "Mature" experiences. I can't think of the last Nintendo game that targeted realistic graphics. Even if its a stylized version like the Yakuza series or the Titanfall IP or pick your preferred example.
Ultimately i think thats where the disconnect with the audience exists.
Its also worth remembering that there are two types of M games. There is the light M that mostly gets there from violence/Swearing think CoD, Titanfall, Uncharted, Mass Effect ect and then there are your heavy M's full of over the top gore like Meatal Gear Rising, Mortal Combat, Doom ect
These games are very different niche's and should be treated as such.
Edit; Honestly Nintendo should just do what Disney does and have a seperate brand for the more mature games they publish. That way Nintendo can keep its family safe image while still enticing more mature games to their platform.
Yeah, Nintendo did a distribution deal for them in the Americas with Rare as publisher. THQ had the same deal for PAL.
DeuceGamer
Member
My point is exactly that they dont have to release Mature games to attract core gamers. I also believe they have been working to attract core gamers this far with the Switch, while also making sure the hardcore Nintendo fan is satisfied.
I think they have done a lot more than show Metroid Prime. Zelda is a title that is focused on the core, regardless of the art style. The marketing has mostly focused on the core. Monolith is releasing a core focused RPG. Theyve collaborated with Koei Tecmo for a Nintendo Warriors game. They have courted Bethesda and made sure Skyrim was one of the very first games showed. Bethesda is also releasing other Mature titles.
They arent going to suddenly release gritty and realistic Mario, Zelda, and other franchises, nor should they. That doesnt mean they cant or havent been trying to appeal to core gamers. Maybe the issue is we disagree on whether certain games are aimed at the core.
Considering the Sony/MS audience is already entrenched in their ecosystems, would it even be possible to get enough of them back for it to be fiscally responsible?
Making a gesture that adult video games are welcome instead of shunned by the "kiddy company" is one thing. "Getting the audience back" is another thing entirely. Trying to pump out mature titles isn't going to pull in a community who buy Playstation because that's what they already own and that's what all their friends own. Nintendo could start pumping out nothing but gritty M-rated titles tomorrow and that crowd still wouldn't come back.
Nintendo's targeting pretty much every crowd except the Sony/MS console crowd because they know that nothing they do can crack that shell. The Switch is made to cater to handheld gaming, local multiplayer, and transitioning rapidly between different play cases. These are things that the Sony/MS crowd has made it pretty clear they don't prioritize. People thought there was no way for Nintendo to wiggle into a blue ocean situation sandwiched between consoles and mobile, but they're certainly trying to squeeze into the least iron smelling waters because a consumer that already feels what they own has everything they want isn't going to look for something else.
No one's saying "Gritty Realistic" is required. Just regular Blue Sky Realistic is fine. For Instance imagine if Tokyo Mirrage Sessions looked less cartoony and more like a Yakuza game but without the M rated content ect.
Now obviously TMS chose its art style for a specific reason and i have no issue with that. It was just an example of the type of "Nintendo game" that could be given realistic graphics without effecting its identity.
A realistic "Style Savvy" game would also be an existing Nintendo IP that could be easily presented with "realistic" graphics without changing the series core identity. If anything "Style Savvy" would be improved by realistic graphics and as detailed a character creator as possible.
Ps. It would be possible to get a lot of Sony/Microsoft customers back/owning multiple platforms. You just need niche exclusives.
IE. If Nintendo had its own equivalent of Forza or GT that would get people who loved car racing to buy a Switch if it offered a slightly tweaked handling model or different locations that arent availiable. Building a Studio out of NoE near where all the supercars are made (Germany/Italy ect) that focuses on European car culture in contrast to the US car culture thats at the heart of Forza or the Japanese car culture at the heart of GT would be an unfilled niche.
With Crytek having financial difficulties it likely wouldn't be that hard to find staff. Cloud Imperium Games (Star Citizen) certainly benefitted from this. Even buying Crytek and getting the Cryengine and Crysis IP wouldn't be the worst buisness move.
Eventually as you make more Niche exclusives you attract more people to your platform. These games are low-medium budget with low profit margins but they help attract new customers and once these customers buy a switch they are likely to buy other games there.
Come to think of it, games like Style Savvy, Nintendogs, and Wii Fit would be the easiest to increase realism with.
I kinda wonder what people's reactions would be if that's where they invested that kind of change into, though.
Don't forget Endless Ocean and Pilot Wings
I'm guessing there would be a significant segment of "core gamers" that would respond similarly to when Retro announced Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze.
However i think it would perfectly appeal to Nintendo's Blue Ocean stratergy. All of those games would be extremely appealing to a female audience that is almost never reached by most game companies.
CocoaThunderDS
Neo Member
Animal crossing is pretty mature can we have that please?!
i think nintendo just wants to dot their i's and cross their t's now that it's clear Switch will get seat at the "big boy's table", to some extent. before it wasn't clear whether it'd be a niche thing that relied mostly on 1st party but publishers are willing to bring out their big guns, so they want to keep that rolling. and not let 'traditional' demographics that go hand in hand with an nintendo portable get in the way
DeuceGamer
Member
We are getting way off my original point. My original point is that Nintendos internal teams arent going to start releasing Mature titles, and doing so would be a mistake. It was quoted that it wouldnt be a mistake. I dont think Nintendo has to release internally developed Mature titles to attract core gamers.
Would a few more realistic games hurt? No, probably not but I dont see those titles being Mature rated titles and a large amount of Nintendos internally developed projects. I also dont think they have to be for Nintendo to be successful with core gamers. Nintendo is a large company and can hire developers for numerous projects.
Shadow Broker
Banned
I dont know much about this game but I remember when I first saw it all I could think Man, whoever is making this is trying way too hard. That game felt like it was made just to be made and so that they can say they made it.
What youre saying about the graphics makes sense and I agree with for the most part but feel this is more of Nintendo wanting to pull in more than from their core and family base.
Having more Mature content no matter how Mature is define in the case is one of Nintendos biggest weakness. Besides the lack of 3rd party content like the Resident Evils or a PUBG I think Nintendo shot themselves in the foot by shelving games like Metroid for so long and not putting more effort and marketing in creating new ips themselves that can be considered Mature.
In my opinion Nintendo needs to give birth to a new Mature ip like they did with Splatoon and push the shit out of it.
I see your point with the edit but also disagree. If they created a new brand just to push out first party Mature content they will have to spend millions to create and advertise it just for brand awareness. I think its possible for them to produce and release more mature content without it hurting their family friendly focused as long as they dont shit the bed with something like GTA Mario style.
I'll definitely applaud the variety if more mature games (interpreted by me as "challenging and with mature themes and/or dark tone/atmosphere") make it to Switch...but only when that (already confirmed to be working) Dark Souls 3 port or a Dark Souls Collection is amongst the selection...
Guess the ball's in your court Bandai-Namco / FROM.
Guess the ball's in your court Bandai-Namco / FROM.
CEJames
Member
Or high school of the dead.
I kind of saw this coming over the years during the Wii U. I mean they fucking bought the rights to publish a Bayonetta sequel.
Plus Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia actually saying "bastard" instead of "dastard" now (although that was more likely a result of better localization), seeing Doom and Wolfenstein coming to Switch, etc.
Plus Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia actually saying "bastard" instead of "dastard" now (although that was more likely a result of better localization), seeing Doom and Wolfenstein coming to Switch, etc.
King Gilga
Member
Reading mature and then seeing that OP image... I guess japan has a much inferior definition of mature.
WhiteWaterM00se
Member
I would disagree with Nintendo creating an "M" rated game with Retro. I don't think "M" rated games mean what they used too. I think "Teen" rated games and Games as Services are what should be targeted.
I think Nintendo and Retro need should have had two games in development, with the larger game a Games as Service game. Whatever that is. I know this sounds easier said than done, but I think Retro should be targeting a "Teen" rated title, that is a game with e-sport and fun multiplayer like Overwatch, Hearthstone, GTA online, or even Destiny. Nintendo needs to bring in the E-SPORT crowd, and it will lead to more mature games coming naturally.
The second game should be something a much smaller team could create, or help another studio create. A Waverace, 1080 snowboarding, Fzero, Mario Strikers, or something similar that a smaller team could create.
I think Nintendo and Retro need should have had two games in development, with the larger game a Games as Service game. Whatever that is. I know this sounds easier said than done, but I think Retro should be targeting a "Teen" rated title, that is a game with e-sport and fun multiplayer like Overwatch, Hearthstone, GTA online, or even Destiny. Nintendo needs to bring in the E-SPORT crowd, and it will lead to more mature games coming naturally.
The second game should be something a much smaller team could create, or help another studio create. A Waverace, 1080 snowboarding, Fzero, Mario Strikers, or something similar that a smaller team could create.
I don't know that they are changing their family friendly approach with their internal software, but it seems like with the Switch they are putting their foot forward in trying to actually appeal to all segments, and make the device seem like it can do it all. Certainly the design of the Switch itself is a step away from the more toy looking devices they've been making since the GameCube era. Also reasonable to say that their branding change(switching to red), and marketing, might reflect a change in policy as well. They want it to be seen as a premium device that can appeal to their usual audience, lapsed Nintendo fans, core gamers, casuals, etc.
The only Nintendo internal developers/IP I could see turning out an M rated game would be Metroid or new IP from Monolith and/or Retro.
Fan service and excessive violence are equal as far as "mature" is concerned.
I think ultimately this comes down to what your definition of mature is.
To the Racing game audience that involves games with realistic graphics, tracks/veichles that require using the breaks just as much the accelerator and no blue shells. To people who like Horror games that definition is very different.
I think what i mean to say is that Nintendo should be creating gateway experiences that bridge the difference between their typical PG/E fair and the standard realistic PG13/T/M/R games that 3rd party publishers like to make and are profitible on other platforms.
For instance something like Endless Ocean isn't really all that different to Assasins Creed Black Flag when exploring and adventuring. Style Savvy with realistic graphics could easily get cameo's from beloved 3rd party characters to increase brand awareness. If Lightning (FFXIII) can be a real life Louis Vuitton model then surely a cameo wouldn't be too big of a stretch.
Why create a new Brand? Just buy Capcom or Sega.
OK i'm somewhat joking. However just look at what happened with Monolith Soft. It took the general audience a long time to realise they were a first party developer due to the different name and they are still very much viewed as their own seperate thing in a similar way to how Gurella Games and Naughty Dog are viewed as their own entities despite both being Sony first party studios. I'm sure there are a few independent studios with brand recognition who would love the financial stability that comes from being a first party studio to a stable publisher, especially if they were allowed/encouraged to make the games they wanted to make (within reason)
I think the thing to note here is that women aren't a monolith. There's men that want realistic games and men that want cartoony games, so it's pretty obvious that you can't just sweep up women in one batch of games either. And it's pretty much every kind of game that's terrible at appealing to women, so there's a lot of ground to cover.
I mean, one can't understate the consumer size of an entire untargeted, largely untapped gender. There's definitely a kind of person who wants that realism and never gets catered to, and there's almost certainly others that have something completely different they want. Personally I think realism is duller than a sack of bricks, but that says nothing about the next person. There's literally half a world out in this ocean, Nintendo's going to need more than one boat out here.
So there's definitely a big female audience for those games just waiting to be reached, but then there's another female audience here and another one over there and another one this way and another one that. Nintendo should work on providing realistic games for them, but there's probably a discussion to be had about how Nintendo should approach potential female gamers as a whole.
I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. Although i will add that my intention of saying games like Style Savvy ect appeal to a female audience was not saying that they wouldn't also appeal to male players. It was just that those games tended to skew female.
I still remember the thread when the trailer for Travis Strikes Again was revealed, there were people concerned that Nintendo was going to censor it, a third party game.
SuperBlank
Member
It seems pretty evident the article is referring to all kinds of "mature" games, for people who keep referencing stuff like Gal Gun and Gal Gun alone.
And I think stuff like the Bethesda lineup helps validate those claims.
Obviously Nintendo isn't going to abandon kid-friendly games, or the more Gal Gun type stuff, the point seems to be that they're casting a wider net and want all types of games. It does appear they are trying to make good on these claims as well, but... there's still a lot of ground to cover. We'll see.
And I think stuff like the Bethesda lineup helps validate those claims.
Obviously Nintendo isn't going to abandon kid-friendly games, or the more Gal Gun type stuff, the point seems to be that they're casting a wider net and want all types of games. It does appear they are trying to make good on these claims as well, but... there's still a lot of ground to cover. We'll see.