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[RoboFu]

Foamstars is laughing at concord .

 

[Hypereides]

Well, it kind of depends on the game or franchise.

I don’t think any marketing dept or finance bean counters gunned for a game like concord. It was probably pushed through by weird creatives.

Business doesn’t have to be groundbreaking every time. Nor does bags of chips or coffee tables. Just make a solid product that people know they’ll get something pretty good and predictable and that’s good for long term success. Many of the most popular money making games are annual rehashes or one giant game that does updates or dlc like Minecraft or Fortnite for years.

That new delta force shooter game is wishlisted by tons of people. It looks like just one big BF dude bro military shooter. But if that’s what people like, it doesn’t have to be visionary. Just a solid big battle solider shooter with some tanks and helicopters thrown in.

I think the problem with creatives and anyone who goes against the grain is that they think their idea is best ever, and anything from another military shooter with an ak47 or chocolate chip cookie is dumb and boring. But hey, if they sell great because the general public likes it, then there’s no reason you can’t make a similar product and improve on it.

Sounds like you're affiliated with this profession. I hope you didn't take that post personally.

You're right that business doesn't have to be groundbreaking each and every time. But, when something really unique crosses your path, its best to keep your hands off and listen to what the developers have to say. In such cases the roles need to reverse and you should take a step back to digest and learn what the developers' vision is. Then apply that knowledge to figure out a way to convey it to the public. If anything has gotten abundantly clear over the previous decade, its that power dynamics, within AAA, has shifted largely in favour of business inteliigence and marketing teams.

Look, influence of marketing teams need to be kept at bay in the creative process. They may unintentionally "wreck" a wildly promising concept that could end up doing gangbusters or open up a latent market for some publisher. If what Buggy Loop said (link) has any validity, these folks within AAA studios/pubs need to have that power significantly nerfed. Wearing down developers through obstructive meetings to impose your will is ridiculous and can invite a risk you may have not predicted. More than often, these very same people have limited imagination or aphantasia. Believe it or not, people can subconsciously detect/"feel" if a creative vision is inconsistent.

With all due respect, let creators be creators. Especially, treasure those visionary "mad inventor types" who pitch outlandish ideas. A fresh, crazy and eye catching concept like Ape escape would probably never come to fruition in the current AAA climate. Give actual creators the freedom and you'll probably be shocked by how much new value they can bring to you and your company. Creators lead the way in this industry. Not the suits.*

EDIT: *(again, this is taking into consideration that we're talking about a studio without activists)

 

[deriks]

Everyone is tired of this woke shit. I hope it dies as soon as it arrives

 

[Ovek]

Everyone is tired of this woke shit. I hope it dies as soon as it arrives

I'm sure Sony will throw enough money at popular Streamers to get it at minimum the top three of streamed games on Twitch for a week, or long enough for the stupid fucking kids that watch Twitch shit to brain wash them in to buying it.

 

[PeteBull]

I'm sure Sony will throw enough money at popular Streamers to get it at minimum the top three of streamed games on Twitch for a week, or long enough for the stupid fucking kids that watch Twitch shit to brain wash them in to buying it.

If it was so easy suicide squad and other shit games wouldnt bomb as hard as they did

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I'm sure Sony will throw enough money at popular Streamers to get it at minimum the top three of streamed games on Twitch for a week, or long enough for the stupid fucking kids that watch Twitch shit to brain wash them in to buying it.

It's impossible that kids buy this game. It's aimed at an imaginary older audience woke enough to eat this crap because they feel so represented. Of course, that audience doesn't exist and the game will bomb inevitably.

I can't see streamers championing this after the huge backlash either.

 

[ViciousAgenda]

They called it Firewalk studios cause their games ain't fire and as soon as you see them, you walk away.

 

[Ceadeus]

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

With Astro Bot releasing a week after Concord, this game is going to go by like a wet fart.

 

[Aenima]

It's impossible that kids buy this game. It's aimed at an imaginary older audience woke enough to eat this crap because they feel so represented. Of course, that audience doesn't exist and the game will bomb inevitably.

I can't see streamers championing this after the huge backlash either.

The imaginary audience these devs keep making games for, they call them "Modern Audience".

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sounds like you're affiliated with this profession. I hope you didn't take that post personally.

You're right that business doesn't have to be groundbreaking each and every time. But, when something really unique crosses your path, its best to keep your hands off and listen to what the developers have to say. In such cases the roles need to reverse and you should take a step back to digest and learn what the developers' vision is. Then apply that knowledge to figure out a way to convey it to the public. If anything has gotten abundantly clear over the previous decade, its that with that power dynamics, within AAA, has shifted largely in favour of business inteliigence and marketing teams.

Look, influence of marketing teams need to be kept at bay in the creative process. They may unintentionally "wreck" a wildly promising concept that could end up doing gangbusters or open up a latent market for some publisher. If what Buggy Loop said (link) has any validity, these folks within AAA studios/pubs need to have that power significantly nerfed. Wearing down developers through obstructive meetings to impose your will is ridiculous and can invite a risk you may have not predicted. More than often, these very same people have limited imagination or aphantasia. Believe it or not, people can subconsciously detect/"feel" if a creative vision is inconsistent.

With all due respect, let creators be creators. Especially, treasure those visionary "mad inventor types" who pitch outlandish ideas. A fresh, crazy and eye catching concept like Ape escape would probably never come to fruition in the current AAA climate. Give actual creators the freedom and you'll probably be shocked by how much new value they can bring to you and your company. Creators lead the way in this industry. Not the suits.

Actually, every company I've worked at is as opposite to video games as can be. And that even goes for shitty PT jobs in high school and summer gigs during university.

I'm not saying nerf creative freedom completely. You got to at least have a starting point where the idea seems decent. It's like that Gollum stealth game. It got bad reviews and surely sold lousy. But even if it got solid reviews as a top tier stealth game, there is no way gamers would care for it. Stealth games are hard enough to sell, and nobody likes Gollum t be a leading character in a game. Comboing it together is worse. Somehow in that process, creatives and management and whomever controlled the pot of development money all went gung ho for a Gollum stealth game which is absurd.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Nobody asked for this - The Game

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

The imaginary audience these devs keep making games for, they call them "Modern Audience".

The last thing modern audiences want is anything made for “modern audiences”. People are so sick of this shit, they’re starting to avoid anything that has even the slightest whiff of pandering to these imaginary people.

Practically a whole generation of movies, TV, and games has been wasted thanks to this lie. Just think of how much money + jobs were lost and how much pointless social division + conflict were created by these parasites trying to jam their ideology into everything.

It’s sad. I’m just relieved that the pendulum finally seems to be swinging the other way.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The last thing modern audiences want is anything made for “modern audiences”. People are so sick of this shit, they’re starting to avoid anything that has even the slightest whiff of pandering to these imaginary people.

Practically a whole generation of movies, TV, and games has been wasted thanks to this lie. Just think of how much money + jobs were lost and how much pointless social division + conflict were created by these parasites trying to jam their ideology into everything.

It’s sad. I’m just relieved that the pendulum finally seems to be swinging the other way.

The more game studios makes weird games, it just makes gamer stick to COD and Fortnite more.

Who knows how good that new Delta Force game will be, but watching videos it does seem pretty slick. By the looks of it, it seems similar to a BF kind of game. No need to recreate the wheel.

 

[Hypereides]

Actually, every company I've worked at is as opposite to video games as can be. And that even goes for shitty PT jobs in high school and summer gigs during university.

I'm not saying nerf creative freedom completely. You got to at least have a starting point where the idea seems decent. It's like that Gollum stealth game. It got bad reviews and surely sold lousy. But even if it got solid reviews as a top tier stealth game, there is no way gamers would care for it. Stealth games are hard enough to sell, and nobody likes Gollum t be a leading character in a game. Comboing it together is worse. Somehow in that process, creatives and management and whomever controlled the pot of development money all went gung ho for a Gollum stealth game which is absurd.

Pardon if I wasn't clear, I meant in the marketing and business analytics profession in general (perhaps I'm even wrong on that regard). Not the video game development industry specifically.

I wouldn't deem the Gollum example as something "unique" per se, to be honest. That said, a stealth Gollum game doesn't sound bad on paper. Its mostly a possible case study of poor execution (haven't played). It sounds like a project that should've been handled by the same folks who did Styx. A Chronicles of Riddick game adaptation didn't exactly sound thrilling or hopeful either when it was announced until it became a hit upon release.

Anyway, what I'm talking about is a pure idea or proposal that's completely and uniquely different/foreign in terms of how it plays and its presentation. E.g. Ape escape, Okami, Godhand, Clayfighter, Skullmonkeys. Games of that order.

Speaking of stealth games; are they a hard sell though? I'd claim it depends. Does the game bring something new? - Does it differentiate itself? - Does it have a mechanic/component or plural mechanics that spark curiosity? - Does it in any way arouse the player's imagination? If any of these could be checked, then I'd argue it hypothetically comes down to how you would "wrap" that message into a digestible package and sell it to a potential buyer.*

EDIT: *(again, this is taking into consideration that we're talking about a studio without activists).

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

The more game studios makes weird games, it just makes gamer stick to COD and Fortnite more.

Who knows how good that new Delta Force game will be, but watching videos it does seem pretty slick. By the looks of it, it seems similar to a BF kind of game. No need to recreate the wheel.

It’s like Top Gun: Maverick. Male gamers are so starved for games that give them what they actually want, instead of games made by activists that they think modern audiences ought to want.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It’s like Top Gun: Maverick. Male gamers are so starved for games that give them what they actually want, instead of games made by activists that they think modern audiences ought to want.

Yup. The money is there. It's not like gamers suddenly all became broke. Just got to sell something people want.

 

[ArtHands]

I can see Sony announcing a PS5 Concord special edition Bundle.

 

[PeteBull]

I can see Sony announcing a PS5 Concord special edition Bundle.

They wanna increase ps5 sales, not decrease, so highly doubt it

 

[StueyDuck]

We should all wishlist, on both steam and psn.

Just so that when it releases and no one actually buys it, it will be even more of a gut punch .

 

[PeteBull]

We should oh wishlist, on both steam and psn.

Just so that when it releases and no one actually buys it, it will be even more of a gut punch .

I recently saw interview with some polish indie dev(actual indie, not 100m usd budget fake indie) and he said wishlisting is even more important than buying, no idea if its same for big budget AAA like concord that got plenty of visibility/marketing tho

 

[peek]

Im sure the modern audience will love it and eat it up! Sony should be proud of their upcoming dozens of sales.

 

[PeteBull]

Im sure the modern audience will love it and eat it up! Sony should be proud of their upcoming dozens of sales.

Yeh, i noticed modern audience is same thing like that unicorn superhandsome fit af and 1%'er rich young businessman all girls are looking for/dreaming of - in theory he is somewhere out there, in reality he has myriad of bad bitches trying to get his attention so none of the women can actually trully make him commit

 

[peek]

Yeh, i noticed modern audience is same thing like that unicorn superhandsome fit af and 1%'er rich young businessman all girls are looking for/dreaming of - in theory he is somewhere out there, in reality he has myriad of bad bitches trying to get his attention so none of the women can actually trully make him commit

Im too old to understand anything you just wrote. Guess im not the modern audience.

 

[PeteBull]

Im too old to understand anything you just wrote. Guess im not the modern audience.

Thats for the best, bro

 

[Black_Stride]

I recently saw interview with some polish indie dev(actual indie, not 100m usd budget fake indie) and he said wishlisting is even more important than buying, no idea if its same for big budget AAA like concord that got plenty of visibility/marketing tho

Yes, wishlisting is very very important to indie devs.

Which is why almost all indie announcement trailers will say "wishlist now" instead of pre-order or whatever.
Having a high wishlist count gets publishers and other investors interested in your game, sometimes a game isnt even a game yet, its just a concept or one level but it will have a wishlist option available and the dev can then shop their game around and say look how many people are wishlisting our game(not game), fund us to finish it.

For something like Concord, the game is already fully funded and has a publisher, so the wishlist count is likely only for Sonys internal metrics and telemetry.........I got a strong feeling they are gonna be reworking Fairgames seeing how Concord is performing right now......

But maybe it launches and pulls a HellDivers 2 and becomes a success.

 

[peek]

Anyway to get PS numbers like we can for steam? Its possible maybe the game is a success only on consoles? Highly, highly doubt it, but hey never know.

 

[ArtHands]

Anyway to get PS numbers like we can for steam? Its possible maybe the game is a success only on consoles? Highly, highly doubt it, but hey never know.

Think so too. It is possible that the game is a bigger hit on PS5

 

[MayauMiao]

Anyway to get PS numbers like we can for steam? Its possible maybe the game is a success only on consoles? Highly, highly doubt it, but hey never know.

It reached #29 during the free beta weekend.

PS5 Top 40 — Concord beta finds huge success thanks to PS Plus

In the PS5 top 40 this week, we see Concord's Early Access beta mop up thanks to the easy inclusion as part of PS Plus. Also, Among Us is dominating!

www.truetrophies.com

 

[StreetsofBeige]

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yes, wishlisting is very very important to indie devs.

Which is why almost all indie announcement trailers will say "wishlist now" instead of pre-order or whatever.
Having a high wishlist count gets publishers and other investors interested in your game, sometimes a game isnt even a game yet, its just a concept or one level but it will have a wishlist option available and the dev can then shop their game around and say look how many people are wishlisting our game(not game), fund us to finish it.

For something like Concord, the game is already fully funded and has a publisher, so the wishlist count is likely only for Sonys internal metrics and telemetry.........I got a strong feeling they are gonna be reworking Fairgames seeing how Concord is performing right now......

But maybe it launches and pulls a HellDivers 2 and becomes a success.

It's hard to suggest they're "reworking Fairgames" when we literally have no idea how it played or what the progression was.

 

[Jaybe]

Pronoun shooter looks like a misfire

 

[kruis]

Im sure the modern audience will love it and eat it up! Sony should be proud of their upcoming dozens of sales.

Progressives are infamous for demanding woke content in all of their media, praising creators who give in to their demands and then not buying any of it.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Progressives are infamous for demanding woke content in all of their media, praising creators who give in to their demands and then not buying any of it.

I mean money is just a concept of a society built on systemic colonizing oppression of marginalized folks.

Twitter praise is the real gold. Being on the right side of history and not paying your staff is a victory money can't buy.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Think so too. It is possible that the game is a bigger hit on PS5

It will perform better than on PC, but the biggest problem is still the 40$ price tag. ~No one will pay that on either platform.

 

[SidViscous]

It will perform better than on PC, but the biggest problem is still the 40$ price tag. ~No one will pay that on either platform.

I don’t think the price tag is the issue, look at the free open beta, people just don’t want to play it. If Marvel Rivals said you could play it now for 40$ which includes the battle pass or whatever, a lot of folks would pay up.

The characters and tone are the problem, even stuff like the slow movement speed doesn’t explain why people are not even trying the game

 

[MayauMiao]

It will perform better than on PC, but the biggest problem is still the 40$ price tag. ~No one will pay that on either platform.

Didn't seem like a problem for Helldivers 2.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

I actually had to go Google it to remind myself what Concord was.

Not surprised it's not resonating with people.

 

[poodaddy]

Didn't seem like a problem for Helldivers 2.

Yes but Helldivers is a good video game.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It's impossible that kids buy this game. It's aimed at an imaginary older audience woke enough to eat this crap because they feel so represented. Of course, that audience doesn't exist and the game will bomb inevitably.

I can't see streamers championing this after the huge backlash either.

This is the worse thing going for this game. Streamers create the hype for these GAAS games and theres no way any streamer is picking this up to play, unless they are being paid. And as soon as that sponsored stream dies off, its game over.

This game is basically dead before it even launches.

 

[ArtHands]

It reached #29 during the free beta weekend.

PS5 Top 40 — Concord beta finds huge success thanks to PS Plus

In the PS5 top 40 this week, we see Concord's Early Access beta mop up thanks to the easy inclusion as part of PS Plus. Also, Among Us is dominating!

www.truetrophies.com

Knew it. This is a bigger success on Playstation

 

[PeteBull]

Knew it. This is a bigger success on Playstation

Exactly 1 place above 4yo Ghost of Tsushima, but 2 places below Astro's playroom, thats barely over 3,5yo short demo

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

If Concord turns into an even marginal success....the streets of NeoGAF will run red with blood.

 

[PeteBull]

If Concord turns into an even marginal success....the streets of NeoGAF will run red with blood.

Marginal success would be something along 50k concurent players for over a month after launch, dunno if they will even hit that number at launch, not to mention few week after

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Marginal success would be something along 50k concurent players for over a month after launch, dunno if they will even hit that number at launch, not to mention few week after

Many different avenues to become a success. We'll know for sure about a year after launch...especially after it goes F2P

 

[PeteBull]

Many different avenues to become a success. We'll know for sure about a year after launch...especially after it goes F2P

We will know first week, bro, if (or rather, when it flops it will never recover

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

We will know first week, bro, if (or rather, when it flops it will never recover

Too many GAAS turnarounds for that to be true.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

It’s like Top Gun: Maverick. Male gamers are so starved for games that give them what they actually want, instead of games made by activists that they think modern audiences ought to want.

That's definitely me. In the past, Top Gun wouldn't even appeal to me, and it's not exactly a brilliant film or in line at all with my favorite works genres / directors. But I enjoyed Maverick just due to the total desert of content around us... I realized "wow, this is an actual movie. I can't remember the last time I saw a movie that wanted to be nothing more, and that didn't inject anything else into it, and that cared about just making a basic movie well."

 

[Fbh]

That's definitely me. In the past, Top Gun wouldn't even appeal to me, and it's not exactly a brilliant film or in line at all with my favorite works genres / directors. But I enjoyed Maverick just due to the total desert of content around us... I realized "wow, this is an actual movie. I can't remember the last time I saw a movie that wanted to be nothing more, and that didn't inject anything else into it, and that cared about just making a basic movie well."

-Top Gun: Brings back and old IP with a new movie where instead of being miserable, depressed and outdone by a strong independent woman, the main character is still likeable, fun and skilled. And we get an enjoyable and straightforward new story that centers around him
-People: Actually show up to watch it and enjoy it
-Hollywood:

 

[wvnative]

I'm sure the new character will turn things around for this game.