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[Primethius]

15% AR for Halo?!???! Why the hell did these people buy XB1s then? I assumed most the people picking up XB1s were doing so in anticipation of Halo. I guess I was wrong.

I mean, a large part has got to be the fire sale from last November and December which kept MS competitive in NA.

The price point surely attracted buyers that weren't necessarily skewed towards the typical MS IPs nor the Xbox brand the same way as a consumer who buys the console at a higher price point typically is (or one who buys a console when it's at price parity with the market leader).

And MS pushed some 2.4 million plus new consoles during those two months, as in roughly more then half of the entire year's sales.

 

[psynergylover]

So first, MS wrote that they had "record breaking sales" and we are assuming by record breaking they are comparing it to last year since the Xbox One has only had 1 black friday period prior to this one that just passed.

The asterisk clarifies that the period is between Nov. 21-27, and generally when you compare things to announce that a new record has been reached, you would need to compare two identical periods. For example if you said "Sales in November were record breaking compared to March" that would make absolutely no sense.

So we can only assume that they are comparing sales between Nov. 21-27, 2014 versus Nov. 21-27, 2015.

The problem with that is Black Friday was on November 28, 2014, but it was on November 27, this year, so the "record" that they broke seemingly didn't include Black Friday which would account for a huge amount of sales, moreso than all of the other 7 days prior combined.



tl;dr version: MS apparently compared a week of sales including Black Friday this year versus a week of sales last year not including Black Friday sales. Of course it would be recording breaking. So while technically they are comparing two identical periods (based on date) it would be misleading. If Black Friday 2015 really beat out Black Friday 2014, they should have just stated that instead of Nov. 21-27.

MS PR are freakin wizards

 

[CosmicQueso]

Microsoft doesn't need NPD to run its own sales comparisons.

MS, just like all vendors, gets direct EDI or other sales data feeds from all reatilers for MS products.

NPD has nothing to do with it.

 

[Radec]

MS PR are freakin wizards

Best wiz in the biz.

 

[serversurfer]

Microsoft doesn't need NPD to run its own sales comparisons.

MS, just like all vendors, gets direct EDI or other sales data feeds from all reatilers for MS products.

NPD has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, the PR even says it's based on their internal data, so even if NPD give dailies, it still wouldn't be a direct comparison to whatever MS were counting.

 

[RexNovis]

For what its worth guys Zhuge says the MS quote is comparing like for like last year (meaning it includes BF).

 

[Liabe Brave]

For what its worth guys Zhuge says the MS quote is comparing like for like last year (meaning it includes BF).

It's not worth any more than the opinion of the posters in this thread. I really think it'd improve the discussion if people would quit posting his stuff like it's official. A lot of what he posts is just his own estimates and interpretations.

(Though in this case I agree with his gloss on the MS PR.)

 

[samar11]

It's not worth any more than the opinion of the posters in this thread. I really think it'd improve the discussion if people would quit posting his stuff like it's official. A lot of what he posts is just his own estimates and interpretations.

Yeah I am getting sick of this, his not an insider.

 

[Elios83]

For what its worth guys Zhuge says the MS quote is comparing like for like last year (meaning it includes BF).

It's just his opinion.
And he has been wrong many times in the past.
He's just a normal dude with the passion for sales graphs Don't know why he's quoted on this stuff.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

This is what I genuinely don't understand. Forza sales are slowing down, Gears is only a remaster, Titanfall wasn't the next COD it was made out to be, Sunset Overdrive and RotTR were bombs, and Halo 5 is a shadow of what the franchise used to be.

So why are people actually choosing to buy an XO over the PS4? Is it just marketing, or national pride in the US for an American company? Simple ignorance of the power difference and bigger library on the PS4?

I'm not trying to be a console warrior here. I get why people who love Xbox exclussives would buy one, the appeal to enthusiasts of backwards compatibility and people wanting to play with friends or with their prefered controller. It's safe to say anyone on this site that's choosing to buy one absolutely knows why they would want one, and have fully informed opinions on it's merits.

But for the snivelling oiks, people who just want COD and FIFA/Madden, why are they getting XO's, when it's clearly not for the thing that most sets it apart from the otherwise stronger competition.

Personally, I think it's a combination of marketing and good-will still left over from the 360. Keep in mind 360 didn't just win the U.S by a sizable margin; it dominated the PS3 here. I think less educated consumers* still see the One as a spiritual followup to their beloved 360 when in reality, the PS4 has taken that position among the multiplatform and FPS spectrum.

It's sort of like a ghost effect; Xbox became synonymous w/ gaming in America w/ the 360, the same way PlayStation was w/ PS1 and PS2. So even if the actual XBO console is in a weakened position, the Xbox brand still enjoys residual benefits from becoming that synonymous with gaming, and that's actually what Sony is combating this gen: not the XBO (they've already beaten that some time ago), but the Xbox brand and it's attachment to the American gaming scene. That's going to be much tougher but they're doing a pretty decent job so far.

*

Spoiler

I'm obviously not saying XBO consumers are less educated; that was just me generally speaking. There are plenty who actually have pretty legit reasons for picking one one, such as friends lists, prior purchased content or caring about the exclusives. But these are generally hardcore and core gamers, and they make up a small share of the sales at that point of the console lifecycle. Not that small, but quite smaller than back in '13 or '14, and that's natural.

So, i don't know... I Say 5,500,000 lifetime for Halo 5.

This is the part where I grind my back teeth, spread open my lips, wince my face into a flustered cluster of sloping wrinkles, suck in a bit of air through my overbite and say ouch.

 

[RexNovis]

It's not worth any more than the opinion of the posters in this thread. I really think it'd improve the discussion if people would quit posting his stuff like it's official. A lot of what he posts is just his own estimates and interpretations.

(Though in this case I agree with his gloss on the MS PR.)

Yeah I am getting sick of this, his not an insider.

It's just his opinion.
And he has been wrong many times in the past.
He's just a normal dude with the passion for sales graphs Don't know why he's quoted on this stuff.

Yeesh. What the hell is up with the hostility? I was just passing the info along. Nobody is claiming hes an insider but he remains a very useful analyst. His methodology is rock solid and his data is spot on 99% of the time. As such if he says he believes it is including BF last year than I think it is worth mentioning.

 

[iceblade997]

Personally, I think it's a combination of marketing and good-will still left over from the 360. Keep in mind 360 didn't just win the U.S by a sizable margin; it dominated the PS3 here. I think less educated consumers* still see the One as a spiritual followup to their beloved 360 when in reality, the PS4 has taken that position among the multiplatform and FPS spectrum.

It's sort of like a ghost effect; Xbox became synonymous w/ gaming in America w/ the 360, the same way PlayStation was w/ PS1 and PS2. So even if the actual XBO console is in a weakened position, the Xbox brand still enjoys residual benefits from becoming that synonymous with gaming, and that's actually what Sony is combating this gen: not the XBO (they've already beaten that some time ago), but the Xbox brand and it's attachment to the American gaming scene. That's going to be much tougher but they're doing a pretty decent job so far.

*

Spoiler

I'm obviously not saying XBO consumers are less educated; that was just me generally speaking. There are plenty who actually have pretty legit reasons for picking one one, such as friends lists, prior purchased content or caring about the exclusives. But these are generally hardcore and core gamers, and they make up a small share of the sales at that point of the console lifecycle. Not that small, but quite smaller than back in '13 or '14, and that's natural.

Just to add to this (but this is speculation and conjecture on my part) perhaps that is what signing marketing + [timed] DLC exclusivity for CoD and Destiny was about. I get the impression a lot of people associated the 360 with shooters, and those two are of course two of the bigger ones (CoD because CoD, and Destiny because Bungie, and getting Bungie's next IP for your console re marketing is about as good as you can do since you can't get Halo itself). IMO this is why they make sure to have something from one of the two be relatively front and center to people at things like PSX: pushing out the message that "it's not just the Xbox brand that can do shooters, but we can too". Throwing in things like Battlefront, and full exclusivity for whatever their own studios can put out would help to continue pushing that narrative. After all, if you want to play with your friends, and your friends start switching, perhaps that might make you consider switching too.

Though that said, does anyone have lifetime 360 vs PS3 numbers for the US?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Yeesh. What the hell is up with the hostility? I was just passing the info along. Nobody is claiming hes an insider but he remains a very useful analyst. His methodology is rock solid and his data is spot on 99% of the time. As such if he says he believes it is including BF last year than I think it is worth mentioning.

I'm guessing there was a good reason he was banned? (not being sarcastic, I have no idea why he's gone)

 

[Elios83]

Yeesh. What the hell is up with the hostility? I was just passing the info along. Nobody is claiming hes an insider but he remains a very useful analyst. His methodology is rock solid and his data is spot on 99% of the time. As such if he says he believes it is including BF last year than I think it is worth mentioning.

No hostility at all from me.
Just pointing out that he's no insider and his opinion is worth as much as any other who can read the PR in this thread and draw his own conclusion, that's all. And btw he's far from 99% accuracy
Just to make an example in September NPD a few people quoted his comment about PS4+XB1 total sales being 550k as gospel thinking that it was leaked to him somehow and we were all mislead It was just his own (wrong) estimate.

 

[Abdiel]

I'm guessing there was a good reason he was banned? (not being sarcastic, I have no idea why he's gone)

I'm aware of the reason why he was banned, and it has nothing to do with anything in any of the sales threads. None of his info was in any way inaccurate, however we're not allowed to discuss moderation stuff like that, so let's leave it there.

I'll make another post in a bit regarding what I've seen so far on December.

 

[Primethius]

I'm aware of the reason why he was banned, and it has nothing to do with anything in any of the sales threads. None of his info was in any way inaccurate, however we're not allowed to discuss moderation stuff like that, so let's leave it there.

I'll make another post in a bit regarding what I've seen so far on December.

This is what I've been waiting for.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I'm aware of the reason why he was banned, and it has nothing to do with anything in any of the sales threads. None of his info was in any way inaccurate, however we're not allowed to discuss moderation stuff like that, so let's leave it there.

I'll make another post in a bit regarding what I've seen so far on December.

Nice. Can't wait!

Just to add to this (but this is speculation and conjecture on my part) perhaps that is what signing marketing + [timed] DLC exclusivity for CoD and Destiny was about. I get the impression a lot of people associated the 360 with shooters, and those two are of course two of the bigger ones (CoD because CoD, and Destiny because Bungie, and getting Bungie's next IP for your console re marketing is about as good as you can do since you can't get Halo itself). IMO this is why they make sure to have something from one of the two be relatively front and center to people at things like PSX: pushing out the message that "it's not just the Xbox brand that can do shooters, but we can too". Throwing in things like Battlefront, and full exclusivity for whatever their own studios can put out would help to continue pushing that narrative. After all, if you want to play with your friends, and your friends start switching, perhaps that might make you consider switching too.

Though that said, does anyone have lifetime 360 vs PS3 numbers for the US?

Not sure myself, but the last I remember it was quite a 2:1 situation in favor of 360. The last PS3 #s I saw was about 26-27 million, and 360 was around 48-50 million in that set.

But that was a good while ago.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Yeesh. What the hell is up with the hostility? I was just passing the info along. Nobody is claiming hes an insider but he remains a very useful analyst. His methodology is rock solid and his data is spot on 99% of the time. As such if he says he believes it is including BF last year than I think it is worth mentioning.

No hostility from me. His data is often good, yes...but it's no more spot-on than anyone else's, because it's all taken from publicly available figures (many of which are themselves rounded or estimates). The conclusions he extends from that data are often reasonable, but not really any more astute or accurate than those drawn by many other sales-age GAFfers.

So it's not that reposting his opinions is morally wrong, it's just superfluous. There's plenty of good discussion to be had on GAF without interpolating the opinions of unexceptional outside voices. For example, I'd really rather hear what you think, than what he thinks.

 

[Bgamer90]

Forza sales are slowing down, Gears is only a remaster, Titanfall wasn't the next COD it was made out to be, Sunset Overdrive and RotTR were bombs, and Halo 5 is a shadow of what the franchise used to be.

Sim racing as a whole is down in America, seems like Gears did fine for a remaster (considering they are giving it away now), Titanfall was never going to be the next COD considering how the different the industry was in 2006/2007, and Halo's genre competition (and possibly MCC's issues) hurt it. I think most people interested in Sunset knew it wasn't going to be a big/huge title in sales considering its style and appeal.

So why are people actually choosing to buy an XO over the PS4? Is it just marketing, or national pride in the US for an American company? Simple ignorance of the power difference and bigger library on the PS4?

...For the snivelling oiks, people who just want COD and FIFA/Madden, why are they getting XO's, when it's clearly not for the thing that most sets it apart from the otherwise stronger competition.

15% AR for Halo?!???! Why the hell did these people buy XB1s then? I assumed most the people picking up XB1s were doing so in anticipation of Halo. I guess I was wrong.

There's many who are buying the Xbox simply due to them being more familiar with the brand and nothing more.

Same was true last gen for the PS3. The PS2 dominated and therefore you had people buying that system's successor to simply mainly play games there were also available on the Xbox 360. The gap between PS3 and 360 was FAR bigger in the U.S. than the current gap between PS4 and Xbox One so you didn't see it happen too much here but I know this was true in European territories. I am therefore not sure why this is that surprising.

What IS surprising is the state of exclusives on these consoles (at least to me). It's obvious that exclusives mean far less than they did back during 2006/2007. Multiplats and third party deals are helping far more. I expected things to be like this during the second half of this gen (say, 2017+). I wasn't expecting things to be this way in the gen this early. A bit disappointing to me to be honest.

 

[Abdiel]

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

Someone asked me how things went after the price drops came off post-Black Friday. Well, basically, the same thing as always. People cursing themselves for not pouncing on pricing, and then trying to haggle, but still buying stuff anyway, and accepting the deals as they were. Though, of course, it wasn't very long on the PS4 side before the price fell again, and we saw a rush of people coming in with receipts to price match. Nice of us, eh?

So. Star Wars fever is starting to really heat up. The discount including those Star Wars bundles... damn, man. I'm sure folks remember my Black Friday comments being somewhat quizzical on why they only dropped the NDC bundles, when it seemed like there was so many of the Star Wars ones ready to go, in store or in the back end... Well, they're in stores now. And they seem to be doing well. Very well.

Clarifying that: These are the regular ones, not the limited bundles. But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

XB1s were still selling okay, but were struggling to show the same kind of umph, though I'm sure this sudden price match will turn up the heat a good bit. I do have to wonder how much it will intensify things though, since it's just a price match and not a true marketing push like what customer's are mentioning. We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

What about you Cornbread, you out there?

(My store was not happy about my trip to the Playstation Experience, but hey, my one fuckin' vacation, they survived one weekend, hah, despite the normal blackout on vacation days. I just wasn't allowed to take the time as paid days off. Cheap bastards.)

 

[Boke1879]

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

Someone asked me how things went after the price drops came off post-Black Friday. Well, basically, the same thing as always. People cursing themselves for not pouncing on pricing, and then trying to haggle, but still buying stuff anyway, and accepting the deals as they were. Though, of course, it wasn't very long on the PS4 side before the price fell again, and we saw a rush of people coming in with receipts to price match. Nice of us, eh?

So. Star Wars fever is starting to really heat up. The discount including those Star Wars bundles... damn, man. I'm sure folks remember my Black Friday comments being somewhat quizzical on why they only dropped the NDC bundles, when it seemed like there was so many of the Star Wars ones ready to go, in store or in the back end... Well, they're in stores now. And they seem to be doing well. Very well.

Clarifying that: These are the regular ones, not the limited bundles. But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

XB1s were still selling okay, but were struggling to show the same kind of umph, though I'm sure this sudden price match will turn up the heat a good bit. I do have to wonder how much it will intensify things though, since it's just a price match and not a true marketing push like what customer's are mentioning. We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

What about you Cornbread, you out there?

(My store was not happy about my trip to the Playstation Experience, but hey, my one fuckin' vacation, they survived one weekend, hah, despite the normal blackout on vacation days. I just wasn't allowed to take the time as paid days off. Cheap bastards.)

THat's absolutely fucked they didn't let you take that vacation as paid time off.

 

[j_rocca42]

THat's absolutely fucked they didn't let you take that vacation as paid time off.

Pretty standard in retail that there is no vacation time from thanksgiving to Christmas.

 

[Trust me. I'm a PhD]

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

Someone asked me how things went after the price drops came off post-Black Friday. Well, basically, the same thing as always. People cursing themselves for not pouncing on pricing, and then trying to haggle, but still buying stuff anyway, and accepting the deals as they were. Though, of course, it wasn't very long on the PS4 side before the price fell again, and we saw a rush of people coming in with receipts to price match. Nice of us, eh?

So. Star Wars fever is starting to really heat up. The discount including those Star Wars bundles... damn, man. I'm sure folks remember my Black Friday comments being somewhat quizzical on why they only dropped the NDC bundles, when it seemed like there was so many of the Star Wars ones ready to go, in store or in the back end... Well, they're in stores now. And they seem to be doing well. Very well.

Clarifying that: These are the regular ones, not the limited bundles. But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

XB1s were still selling okay, but were struggling to show the same kind of umph, though I'm sure this sudden price match will turn up the heat a good bit. I do have to wonder how much it will intensify things though, since it's just a price match and not a true marketing push like what customer's are mentioning. We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

What about you Cornbread, you out there?

(My store was not happy about my trip to the Playstation Experience, but hey, my one fuckin' vacation, they survived one weekend, hah, despite the normal blackout on vacation days. I just wasn't allowed to take the time as paid days off. Cheap bastards.)

Glad you found some time off^^ Keep safe next week; Force Awakens day might get a little crazy...

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

Yep, Sony advertising in general is through the roof. I have seen it for videos online, ads, TV commercials galore, etc... It is night and day compared to how Sony handled advertising last year around the holidays.

I hope you enjoyed your time off! Thanks for the info!

 

[Boke1879]

Glad you found some time off^^ Keep safe next week; Force Awakens day might get a little crazy...

If They don't play the launch trailer with the PS4 $299 bundle at the end. That is a massive fail on marketing.

 

[mo60]

Halo 5 could reach 6 Million with a strong $350 Bundle next year.
But i doub it. Of course, we will probabily see some like This, but it won't ne an insane Bundle.
It will be just like The MCC Bundle of This year.
This bundle was selling great for about 3 months, and then is totally death after The madden bunlde.

I expect a similar thing with Halo 5.
I predict an Halo 5 Bundle in March, and when others important Games will come out, Halo 5 Bundle will be Forget.

So, i don't know... I Say 5,500,000 lifetime for Halo 5.

The monthly updates + HCS tournament if advertised like that december update was at TGA should keep the game fresh in people's minds which will help it sell still. I think it's going to sell barely above 6 million at the end of this gen.The game should keep a pretty healthy online population even if it doesn't break 6 million.

 

[RexNovis]

I'm guessing there was a good reason he was banned? (not being sarcastic, I have no idea why he's gone)

Nah his ban had nothing to do with the veracity of his information. His data and analysis are legit. But this is OT so I'll just leave it at that.

No hostility at all from me.
Just pointing out that he's no insider and his opinion is worth as much as any other who can read the PR in this thread and draw his own conclusion, that's all. And btw he's far from 99% accuracy
Just to make an example in September NPD a few people quoted his comment about PS4+XB1 total sales being 550k as gospel thinking that it was leaked to him somehow and we were all mislead It was just his own (wrong) estimate.

No hostility from me. His data is often good, yes...but it's no more spot-on than anyone else's, because it's all taken from publicly available figures (many of which are themselves rounded or estimates). The conclusions he extends from that data are often reasonable, but not really any more astute or accurate than those drawn by many other sales-age GAFfers.

So it's not that reposting his opinions is morally wrong, it's just superfluous. There's plenty of good discussion to be had on GAF without interpolating the opinions of unexceptional outside voices. For example, I'd really rather hear what you think, than what he thinks.

Fair enough. I guess I misread the intent behind y'all's posts. I just wasn't expecting such an immediate negative reaction. Caught me totally off guard. For what its worth while the wording leaves things open to interpretation I'm not sure they would be THAT loose with their PR. It would just be a whole new level of spin and even after all their shenanigans I'm not sure if I believe they would stoop to something like that. Of course theres not really anyway of knowing either way unless we get some very precise data about Black Friday this year and last year. All we can really do is rely on our gut and mine is telling me that this is too much. Even for the MS PR machine.

There's many who are buying the Xbox simply due to them being more familiar with the brand and nothing more.

Same was true last gen for the PS3. The PS2 dominated and therefore you had people buying that system's successor to simply mainly play games there were also available on the Xbox 360. The gap between PS3 and 360 was FAR bigger in the U.S. than the current gap between PS4 and Xbox One so you didn't see it happen too much here but I know this was true in European territories. I am therefore not sure why this is that surprising.

What IS surprising is the state of exclusives on these consoles (at least to me). It's obvious that exclusives mean far less than they did back during 2006/2007. Multiplats and third party deals are helping far more. I expected things to be like this during the second half of this gen (say, 2017+). I wasn't expecting things to be this way in the gen this early. A bit disappointing to me to be honest.

As far as exclusives meaning far less, I'm not so sure about that. I think its that individual titles mean less now. We have a much broader market of games available when you account for the digital offerings these days. They appeal to such a vast range of people that I feel like what was once consolidated into those few massive successes has instead been spread around a bit. We still get those big movers every now and again. I'd argue Titanfall moved a lot of HW. FFVII Remake will undoubtedly be one. Titles like Bloodborne and Until Dawn probably moved the needle a bit as well. When you look at the bigger picture on exclusive content its easy to see how more variety would lead to lower performance on average but still push a significant amount of HW.

However, one could argue that MS's strategies at the tail end of last gen proved the effectiveness of third party marketing and that this generation is simply a continuation of that. I hate it. I think its terrible. MS birthed this marketing abomination which makes it all the more ironic that it is basically steam rolling them but none the less disappointing that it continues to see so much success. But what choice do platform developers have when the monetary and time investment involved in creating new AAA games has gone up so drastically in such a short timeframe? They can no longer put out big AAA exclusive titles at the clip that they used to so they are forced to coopt third party games or rely on external development in order to boost the appeal of their library. It's an unfortunate reality brought upon by the increased complexity that accompanies each new HW iteration.

The monthly updates + HCS tournament if advertised like that december update was at TGA should keep the game fresh in people's minds which will help it sell still. I think it's going to sell barely above 6 million at the end of this gen.The game should keep a pretty healthy online population even if it doesn't break 6 million.

That was hands down some of the most awkward marketing at that show. You could just feel it. It was palpable. I really dont see updates driving much in the way of new sales. They are mainly a device to maintain current userbase which is incredibly important when you have a revenue stream dependent upon the purchase of microtransactions.

THat's absolutely fucked they didn't let you take that vacation as paid time off.

Not surprised at all. Most American companies are total jackasses when it comes to paid time off for anyone except corporate. After moving abroad it became exceedingly obvious how fucked the common work place policies are in the states.

 

[Gestault]

No hostility from me. His data is often good, yes...but it's no more spot-on than anyone else's, because it's all taken from publicly available figures (many of which are themselves rounded or estimates). The conclusions he extends from that data are often reasonable, but not really any more astute or accurate than those drawn by many other sales-age GAFfers.

So it's not that reposting his opinions is morally wrong, it's just superfluous. There's plenty of good discussion to be had on GAF without interpolating the opinions of unexceptional outside voices. For example, I'd really rather hear what you think, than what he thinks.

I'm sorry, this does come off as strangely targeted downplaying. Zhu's presentation of the data he's collected/collated does stand out as better than most. Saying it's "just public information" (when the alternative would be unofficial or non-published sources) is reductive. When data is at the core of sales discussion, conflating the value of opinion with that sort of work is misunderstanding the subject, at best. No one source is a be-all-end-all, and if that's all you're saying then I'd agree, but it didn't sound that way from your response and clarification.

 

[serversurfer]

Yeesh. What the hell is up with the hostility? I was just passing the info along. Nobody is claiming hes an insider but he remains a very useful analyst. His methodology is rock solid and his data is spot on 99% of the time. As such if he says he believes it is including BF last year than I think it is worth mentioning.

Well, FWIW, I just went 'round and 'round with him, and that appears to be all it is. He says it's clear they're talking about Sat-Fri both years, but he doesn't have anything to actually support that, like them being specific about to which year those dates apply. He claims Sony do the same in their reports, but he couldn't support that either. He linked me to this Sony PR, but the verbiage for the footnote isn't the same at all.

Sony: "Retail reporting calendar from November 18-24, 2012"
MS: "Sales period of Nov. 21 – Nov. 27 in the U.S., based on internal Microsoft data"

Sony refer to the "retail reporting calendar," and indeed, the dates they describe in 2012 actually line up with the real retail reporting calendar, which run Sun-Sat in the US. Since the retail reporting calendar is known by all, it's easy to find the corresponding week on that same calendar. Compare to MS, who define their own "sales period" covering Nov. 21 - Nov. 27, seemingly regardless of the year, since they didn't say otherwise. Sat-Fri doesn't like up with any standard retail calendars I'm aware of, so it seems clear that if you're looking for "the same period last year," it would be the "sales period" they defined, which covers Nov. 21 - Nov. 27, period. That would seem to apply to both the 22% increase in Bone sales, and this being their second best 11/21-11/27 for revenue in the history of XBox.

Anyway, I know he's banned and all, but since it was brought up, I just figured I should clarify this is nothing more than his reading (in to) the PR. (Nothing wrong with discussing the validity of external sources/opinions, right?)

 

[Bgamer90]

However, one could argue that MS's strategies at the tail end of last gen proved the effectiveness of third party marketing and that this generation is simply a continuation of that. I hate it. I think its terrible. MS birthed this marketing abomination which makes it all the more ironic that it is basically steam rolling them but none the less disappointing that it continues to see so much success. But what choice do platform developers have when the monetary and time investment involved in creating new AAA games has gone up so drastically in such a short timeframe? They can no longer put out big AAA exclusive titles at the clip that they used to so they are forced to coopt third party games or rely on external development in order to boost the appeal of their library. It's an unfortunate reality brought upon by the increased complexity that accompanies each new HW iteration.

Yep. All good points. There will be less (true) AAA exclusives as games become even more expensive to make.

I just don't like it since (as you've said) this current gen simply feels like a continuation of the last four years of the previous gen instead of a true complete refresh (again, like we saw back in 2006/2007). That's not to say that I've hated it though -- I have MANY enjoyable games to play. It just simply feels like the "next gen newness" has worn off already (where as 2007 for example still felt fresh and new). 2016 is looking really good though. Hope it won't disappoint.
_____________________

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

I said it before, but again -- major props. I amazed at how retail workers have the ability to work through this insane period.

 

[Conduit]

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

Someone asked me how things went after the price drops came off post-Black Friday. Well, basically, the same thing as always. People cursing themselves for not pouncing on pricing, and then trying to haggle, but still buying stuff anyway, and accepting the deals as they were. Though, of course, it wasn't very long on the PS4 side before the price fell again, and we saw a rush of people coming in with receipts to price match. Nice of us, eh?

So. Star Wars fever is starting to really heat up. The discount including those Star Wars bundles... damn, man. I'm sure folks remember my Black Friday comments being somewhat quizzical on why they only dropped the NDC bundles, when it seemed like there was so many of the Star Wars ones ready to go, in store or in the back end... Well, they're in stores now. And they seem to be doing well. Very well.

Clarifying that: These are the regular ones, not the limited bundles. But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

XB1s were still selling okay, but were struggling to show the same kind of umph, though I'm sure this sudden price match will turn up the heat a good bit. I do have to wonder how much it will intensify things though, since it's just a price match and not a true marketing push like what customer's are mentioning. We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

What about you Cornbread, you out there?

(My store was not happy about my trip to the Playstation Experience, but hey, my one fuckin' vacation, they survived one weekend, hah, despite the normal blackout on vacation days. I just wasn't allowed to take the time as paid days off. Cheap bastards.)

Thanks! Anyway, can you give us info for a few days and how things will be cuz Xbone started with 299$ yesterday.

 

[slavesnyder]

I was under the impression that those features were incredibly unappealing to the masses.

Also, many Xbox owners still try to figure out how the water cooling works.

 

[JaguarCROW]

...
See, even as one myself, I've always had a hard time believing multi-system owners are anything more than a statistical anomaly. I'd love to know some hard figures on that if anyone has some.
..

I have not seen figures for the PS4/XBox One generation but during the early years (around 2008-2009) I remember reading a very low 3% of console owners owned both the PS3 and XBox360. Let me see if I can dig up the old link.

This probably has the info but I don't have $3000 to spend on the report.
https://www.parksassociates.com/report/connected-consoles--gaming--media--and-beyond

Here is another one although it doesn't have the multiple console household breakdown.
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...ate of the Video Gamer - 4th Quarter 2008.pdf

Sorry I can't seem to find the exact link but I know the number was surprisingly very low.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

For what its worth guys Zhuge says the MS quote is comparing like for like last year (meaning it includes BF).

You guys give Zhuge far too much credit. I wish you would all stop Twitter-quoting him like he's the NPD himself. He's basically the thuway and Famous Mortimer of the sales threads.

Yeesh. What the hell is up with the hostility? I was just passing the info along. Nobody is claiming hes an insider but he remains a very useful analyst. His methodology is rock solid and his data is spot on 99% of the time. As such if he says he believes it is including BF last year than I think it is worth mentioning.

No hostility from me, just tired of seeing his name held up as a beacon of truth. Guy is banned and still rules the sales threads when we have any number of decent insiders who go about their business modestly*.

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

Someone asked me how things went after the price drops came off post-Black Friday. Well, basically, the same thing as always. People cursing themselves for not pouncing on pricing, and then trying to haggle, but still buying stuff anyway, and accepting the deals as they were. Though, of course, it wasn't very long on the PS4 side before the price fell again, and we saw a rush of people coming in with receipts to price match. Nice of us, eh?

So. Star Wars fever is starting to really heat up. The discount including those Star Wars bundles... damn, man. I'm sure folks remember my Black Friday comments being somewhat quizzical on why they only dropped the NDC bundles, when it seemed like there was so many of the Star Wars ones ready to go, in store or in the back end... Well, they're in stores now. And they seem to be doing well. Very well.

Clarifying that: These are the regular ones, not the limited bundles. But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

XB1s were still selling okay, but were struggling to show the same kind of umph, though I'm sure this sudden price match will turn up the heat a good bit. I do have to wonder how much it will intensify things though, since it's just a price match and not a true marketing push like what customer's are mentioning. We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

What about you Cornbread, you out there?

(My store was not happy about my trip to the Playstation Experience, but hey, my one fuckin' vacation, they survived one weekend, hah, despite the normal blackout on vacation days. I just wasn't allowed to take the time as paid days off. Cheap bastards.)

*BALANCE RESTORED.

Cheers, Abdiel.

 

[Rymuth]

Oy. So.

Cheers, Abdiel.

Got any interesting anecdotes on the Software side of things?

 

[serversurfer]

Also, many Xbox owners still try to figure out how the water cooling works.

Bone and PS4 are both liquid-cooled, actually. PS3 was too. Not sure about 360.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

 

[panda-zebra]

...
But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).
...
We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

lol. Sorry, don't mean to laugh in a mean way, as you see the potential for a lot of hard work before you, but that just tickled me. Thanks for the info as usual.

Personally, I can't see this particular deal (and the apparent marketing blitz that's accompanying it, given the feedback you're receiving) as being anything other than a huge success - and if not quite that, then at least an important and valuable differentiator having the impactful xmas morning big blue box complete with nostalgic SW imagery. While last year Microsoft had the price advantage and bundled games giving them a sizeable value angle, the marketing deal Sony has with Star Wars BF, however averagely the game has performed or reviewed with gamers, is nothing but pure, distilled xmas magic for me.

There wasn't all that much great being said regarding last year's AC game, the game reviewed similarly if worse than SWBF but had much worse word of mouth among gamers. Not important - it looked the part on the shelf. To the new console buyer, that game and the others bundled looked like a massive value-add.

And now it's getting to...

This time around, riding the Star Wars hype train, with price parity, I can see Abdiel and those brave men and women at retail having a very busy time indeed. I don't see this as being one of those occasions where the other party can side-step the marketing deal by offering the game bundled in for free as, to me, it's less about the actual game and more about the whole package bundled up full of potential and nostalgia.

Looking forward to seeing how it plays out, it's definitely going to be inter[EOF]

 

[foxbeldin]

Will be interesting !

 

[Ombala]

We get the results today? I fear I'm way of again with too high predictions.

 

[samar11]

We get the results today? I fear I'm way of again with too high predictions.

Tomorrow if you live in Australia lol

 

[slavesnyder]

Bone and PS4 are both liquid-cooled, actually. PS3 was too. Not sure about 360.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

So this is what she was referring to. Poor wording.

 

[dolemite]

The numbers aren't out yet but the salty crows are already being served.

 

[Chobel]

The numbers aren't out yet but the salty crows are already being served.

Wat?

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Today.

NPD, and my birthday. My squid is ready.

 

[2thepoint]

Oy. So.

Closing in on Christmas. We survived the Black Friday madness, woo! And then now Sony and then suddenly MS throw the same damn deals back into the fray. Sigh.

Someone asked me how things went after the price drops came off post-Black Friday. Well, basically, the same thing as always. People cursing themselves for not pouncing on pricing, and then trying to haggle, but still buying stuff anyway, and accepting the deals as they were. Though, of course, it wasn't very long on the PS4 side before the price fell again, and we saw a rush of people coming in with receipts to price match. Nice of us, eh?

So. Star Wars fever is starting to really heat up. The discount including those Star Wars bundles... damn, man. I'm sure folks remember my Black Friday comments being somewhat quizzical on why they only dropped the NDC bundles, when it seemed like there was so many of the Star Wars ones ready to go, in store or in the back end... Well, they're in stores now. And they seem to be doing well. Very well.

Clarifying that: These are the regular ones, not the limited bundles. But damn we've got a lot of those fuckin' Star Wars bundles. Apparently they've also increased the advertising? People are mentioning lots of commercials (I don't watch TV, so I don't really know, but apparently it's all over the place).

XB1s were still selling okay, but were struggling to show the same kind of umph, though I'm sure this sudden price match will turn up the heat a good bit. I do have to wonder how much it will intensify things though, since it's just a price match and not a true marketing push like what customer's are mentioning. We're seeing Star Wars + Christmas madness, and it's getting more than a little chaotic.

What about you Cornbread, you out there?

(My store was not happy about my trip to the Playstation Experience, but hey, my one fuckin' vacation, they survived one weekend, hah, despite the normal blackout on vacation days. I just wasn't allowed to take the time as paid days off. Cheap bastards.)

Good man, Abdiel.

You are a warrior

 

[RexNovis]

Today.

NPD, and my birthday. My squid is ready.

Buon compleanno amici mio! Potrebbe essere la vostra giornata piena di gioia e il tuo cuore pieno du ricordi!

Spoiler

apologies for my horrible Italian

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Buon compleanno amici mio! Potrebbe essere la vostra giornata piena di gioia e il tuo cuore pieno du ricordi!

Spoiler

apologies for my horrible Italian

Amici = friends
Amico = friend

And Grazie.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Today.

NPD, and my birthday. My squid is ready.

Happy birthday!

May your NPD predictions be completely accurate!

Spoiler

Just for today

 

[RexNovis]

Amici = friends
Amico = friend

And Grazie.

Haha yes of course. It's been a good 10 years or so since I last used the language. Surprise I was coherent at all.

 

[mo60]

Today.

NPD, and my birthday. My squid is ready.

Maybe splatoon will chart again in this NPD and your birthday will be even better.