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[jm89]

Will be interesting to see how close series consoles get to ps5 in december NPD, or if the agressive discounts are enough to overtake.

Looking at some retailers best sellers in the USA, ps5 seems ahead with much higher priced bundles.

Best Buy

Gamestop

Amazon(Series X is out of stock at amazon usa, but PS5 has been very close to it all december with multipke skus aswell ranking high)

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Will be interesting to see how close series consoles get to ps5 in december NPD, or if the agressive discounts are enough to overtake.

Based on what you posted it won't be close at all tbh.

 

[jm89]

Based on what you posted it won't be close at all tbh.

If they can't close the gap by a decent amount, that would be an absolute disaster.

Phil said they are taking $100-$200 loss on series consoles, i'd think series x would be the biggest contributer causing that big loss.

Going back up to RRP will probably cause the sales to tank, and if they want to maintain the discount long term that's another possible $100 loss to the already $100-$200, we are entering early ps3 levels of losses.

MS also haven't done any revisions to reduce cost, so who knows if the BOM has gone down.

 

[Elios83]

If they can't close the gap by a decent amount, that would be an absolute disaster.

Phil said they are taking $100-$200 loss on series consoles, i'd think series x would be the biggest contributer causing that big loss.

Going back up to RRP will probably cause the sales to tank, and if they want to maintain the discount long term that's another possible $100 loss to the already $100-$200, we are entering early ps3 levels of losses.

MS also haven't done any revisions to reduce cost, so who knows if the BOM has gone down.

They're losing tons of money with the 349/399 promotions.
Even Sony has seen inflation and other issues eroding all the savings they have achieved with hardware redesigns every year and have been forced to increase prices to not lose a lot of money. Microsoft has not even done cost reduction on hardware like Sony has done so their situation is even worse.
They're trying to save the holiday season from a complete disaster but there are two major issues:
1)Looking at retailers online charts it doesn't seem like the promotions are yielding an explosive effect. PS5 *seems* to be still ahead generally...at 499$.
2)Good luck at sustaining XSX at 399$ next year because no one will be buying that thing at 499$. It's the usual devaluation that deep discounts always create, a race for the bottom.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

They're losing tons of money with the 349/399 promotions.
Even Sony has seen inflation and other issues eroding all the savings they have achieved with hardware redesigns every year and have been forced to increase prices to not lose a lot of money. Microsoft has not even done cost reduction on hardware like Sony has done so their situation is even worse.
They're trying to save the holiday season from a complete disaster but there are two major issues:
1)Looking at retailers charts it doesn't seem like the promotions are yielding an esplosive effect. PS5 *seems* to be still ahead generally.
2)Good luck at sustaining XSX at 399$ next year because no one will be buying that thing at 499$. It's the usual devaluation that deep discounts always create, a race for the bottom.

Honestly looking at the Series hardware decrease this year with games like Starfield and MS's lineup so far when compared to the PS5 for 2024, i feel like things will look even worse for MS.

PS5 literally starts the year with a Final Fantasy game, Helldivers 2 and TLOU2 remastered in just 2 or 3 months...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Will be interesting to see how close series consoles get to ps5 in december NPD, or if the agressive discounts are enough to overtake.

Looking at some retailers best sellers in the USA, ps5 seems ahead with much higher priced bundles.

Best Buy

Gamestop

Amazon(Series X is out of stock at amazon usa, but PS5 has been very close to it all december with multipke skus aswell ranking high)

Amazon has XSX in stock again and priced at 350 again.

Getting very hard to believe that this isn't a fire sale, but maybe this is Microsoft's way of competing without a system selling game, but if they were to announce in Q1 that they're discontinuing the Xbox, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Woopah]

XD

How can people read these stories and not be suspicious?

Honestly looking at the Series hardware decrease this year with games like Starfield and MS's lineup so far when compared to the PS5 for 2024, i feel like things will look even worse for MS.

PS5 literally starts the year with a Final Fantasy game, Helldivers 2 and TLOU2 remastered in just 2 or 3 months...

Plus Rise of the Ronin too. Do any of the MS 2024 games have actual dates?

 

[Unknown?]

If they can't close the gap by a decent amount, that would be an absolute disaster.

Phil said they are taking $100-$200 loss on series consoles, i'd think series x would be the biggest contributer causing that big loss.

Going back up to RRP will probably cause the sales to tank, and if they want to maintain the discount long term that's another possible $100 loss to the already $100-$200, we are entering early ps3 levels of losses.

MS also haven't done any revisions to reduce cost, so who knows if the BOM has gone down.

Even at the discounts, I see less than 1 million. Historically PS and Xbox have done slightly better in November but I see both doing slightly better this month.

They're losing tons of money with the 349/399 promotions.
Even Sony has seen inflation and other issues eroding all the savings they have achieved with hardware redesigns every year and have been forced to increase prices to not lose a lot of money. Microsoft has not even done cost reduction on hardware like Sony has done so their situation is even worse.
They're trying to save the holiday season from a complete disaster but there are two major issues:
1)Looking at retailers online charts it doesn't seem like the promotions are yielding an explosive effect. PS5 *seems* to be still ahead generally...at 499$.
2)Good luck at sustaining XSX at 399$ next year because no one will be buying that thing at 499$. It's the usual devaluation that deep discounts always create, a race for the bottom.

It's the same problem they had with X1, they cut price heavily during the holidays and no one wanted to buy it the rest of the year till the next holiday season

 

[DenchDeckard]

If they can't close the gap by a decent amount, that would be an absolute disaster.

Phil said they are taking $100-$200 loss on series consoles, i'd think series x would be the biggest contributer causing that big loss.

Going back up to RRP will probably cause the sales to tank, and if they want to maintain the discount long term that's another possible $100 loss to the already $100-$200, we are entering early ps3 levels of losses.

MS also haven't done any revisions to reduce cost, so who knows if the BOM has gone down.

The cost price of memory and SSD's has dropped drastically over recent years....I cant even imagine what kind of technical fuck up the series x could be, to still be losing 100-200 dollars per unit.

 

[DrFigs]

I know inflation was bad, but these consoles should not be the same price they were 3 years ago now. the series x probably should be closer to 400 dollars year-round anyway.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I know inflation was bad, but these consoles should not be the same price they were 3 years ago now. the series x probably should be closer to 400 dollars year-round anyway.

Microsoft were and still are subsidising every unit sold. In some years that was to the tune of $1billion+. Deeper cuts mean more subsidy and more sold means more loss.

It's not a good place to be in. The PS5 breaks even.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I know inflation was bad, but these consoles should not be the same price they were 3 years ago now. the series x probably should be closer to 400 dollars year-round anyway.

consoles and GPUs....is crazy

 

[Tsaki]

I know inflation was bad, but these consoles should not be the same price they were 3 years ago now. the series x probably should be closer to 400 dollars year-round anyway.

The Series consoles were losing $100-200 per unit last October (according to Phil Spencer interview) and they had 0 hardware revisions since launch. Going by that, the discounted prices at the moment must lose them well over $200 per unit; that's launch PS3 tier of subsidy.
Also can't imagine what your opinion on Switch is, which is the same price in year 7.

 

[Horseganador]

Devaluing your product to that point to disguise the December figures is not a good plan, what are they going to do when January and the first quarter arrive?

 

[jm89]

what are they going to do when January and the first quarter arrive?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Microsoft were and still are subsidising every unit sold. In some years that was to the tune of $1billion+. Deeper cuts mean more subsidy and more sold means more loss.

$1.5+ billion*

It's not a good place to be in. The PS5 breaks even.

The PS5 not just breaks even; it actually is profitable and has been since Summer 2021.

Recently, Sony's CFO explained that the profit ratio decreased a little bit because of Yen's performance (they need to pay extra for importing parts now), but it is still profitable.

 

[onQ123]

How would they even know how long people playing on PS2?

 

[ByWatterson]

The problem with deep discounts for electronics is that they start to get the stench of death on them. If the consumer is broadly aware of price drops on one console and not on another, and is broadly aware of which console is more popular, it could be hard to convince an undecided buyer to go for the cheaper option.

Electronics are a bit like food or cars that way. Why so cheap?

 

[Deerock71]

At $150 it's worth getting as a streaming box because it supports Dolby Vision. Too bad it doesn't have a disc drive, it would have been undercutting every dedicated 4K UHD Blu-ray player because you aren't getting Dolby Vision support from any $150 dedicated player. The PS5 does not support Dolby Vision and most likely never will.

Too bad Costco pricing like this is super local, I doubt it's a nationwide promotion. Does it come with any free Gamepass?

That's a crazy good deal.

 

[Deerock71]

The problem with deep discounts for electronics is that they start to get the stench of death on them. If the consumer is broadly aware of price drops on one console and not on another, and is broadly aware of which console is more popular, it could be hard to convince an undecided buyer to go for the cheaper option.

Electronics are a bit like food or cars that way. Why so cheap?

There is no stench of death with a company like Microsoft. They can always buy more lime.

 

[nowhat]

How would they even know how long people playing on PS2?

It's just stats of people registered to the site and reporting play times. I.e. completely meaningless.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is Microsoft running the promo's all through December? If they don't see a huge uplift in sales with this promo...Theyre fucked! :/

 

[Unknown?]

There is no stench of death with a company like Microsoft. They can always buy more lime.

Ah like Zune and Windows Phone!

 

[onQ123]

It's just stats of people registered to the site and reporting play times. I.e. completely meaningless.

Exactly lol

 

[Deerock71]

Ah like Zune and Windows Phone!

I'd say the Xbox brand name is bigger than those. Not to mention how much money they're shoveling into the game's division. Who's going to write off their brand when Actiblizz' software is all available on Gamepass, and how good of a deal will the 150 dollar Gamepass machine look after that?

 

[Heisenberg007]

There is no stench of death with a company like Microsoft. They can always buy more lime.

 

[Interfectum]

 

[mckmas8808]

Deep down, we all knew it was sent to die. I just think they'd assigned budget and gone so far with R&D that they thought they have to get it out the door then leave it to tick along.

I think this will be it from Sony on VR now.

I think this was Jim Ryan's take on PSVR2. We'll see if the new lead of Playstation likes VR or not. He CLEARLY doesn't see eye to eye with Jim on Live Service games.

Honestly, in retrospect, Don Mattrick was correct that the future of Xbox was in expanding the audience that comprised the core Xbox audience. Yes, gamers felt heavily alienated, but all of the evidence needed to establish the current outcome we're in was available then. Many folks, particularly in the NA gaming journalism/commentary scene spent a really long time just ignoring the reality that MS was building for themselves.

Did Don Mattrick ever admit this in the public?

 

[Unknown?]

I'd say the Xbox brand name is bigger than those. Not to mention how much money they're shoveling into the game's division. Who's going to write off their brand when Actiblizz' software is all available on Gamepass, and how good of a deal will the 150 dollar Gamepass machine look after that?

Xbox is bigger than Windows?

 

[Deerock71]

Xbox is bigger than Windows?

Honestly, I never knew Windows even had a phone. Look, Xbox isn't going anywhere, unlike Zune. If Microsoft decided to buy Universal Music Group and Def Jam to support the Zune, it would likely still be a thing.

 

[azertydu91]

Honestly, I never knew Windows even had a phone. Look, Xbox isn't going anywhere, unlike Zune. If Microsoft decided to buy Universal Music Group and Def Jam to support the Zune, it would likely still be a thing.

MS bought the biggest streamers a few months before closing Mixer, if you needed a more recent example.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Great placement for Mario RPG, especially in a month as big as November. Nintendo’s gotta be happy with that. And not to mention it’s a $60 remake of a relatively short game from 27 years ago. Can’t wait to see the final tally when Nintendo posts sales numbers in March after the FY closes.

I’d say the future of *actual Mario RPG games looks bright, for sure. Can’t wait for the TTYD remake next year.

It’s also crazy to me how little recognition Hogwarts Legacy is getting, given how incredibly popular it seems to be.

 

[Deerock71]

MS bought the biggest streamers a few months before closing Mixer, if you needed a more recent example.

I mean, what are we even talking about here? MS just closed the biggest deal in video gaming history. Are you suggesting they're going to shutter the Xbox division and kill Actiblizz? It's certainly possible, but highly unlikely.

 

[nowhat]

Honestly, I never knew Windows even had a phone.

So you're very ignorant, I don't think that's an argument in your favor.

 

[Deerock71]

So you're very ignorant, I don't think that's an argument for your favor.

Doesn't sound like I was missing out on much, sport.

 

[nowhat]

Doesn't sound like I was missing out on much, sport.

Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it, chum.

 

[Unknown?]

I mean, what are we even talking about here? MS just closed the biggest deal in video gaming history. Are you suggesting they're going to shutter the Xbox division and kill Actiblizz? It's certainly possible, but highly unlikely.

No, he was just saying they would continue on without a platform and be agnostic. Otherwise they'd kill the value of Activision. What made them so huge was they pumped out games on every platform.

 

[Deerock71]

Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it, chum.

Die on that hill. A phone.

 

[SlimySnake]

I know inflation was bad, but these consoles should not be the same price they were 3 years ago now. the series x probably should be closer to 400 dollars year-round anyway.

AMD screwed them with the node shrinks. the chip is the most expensive part of the console and its still the same price. The SSDs and ram prices have tanked so they are able to save some costs there, but the cooling of these massive 220 watt consoles is still an expensive proposition.

Sony's slim is on 6nm already which has brought their wattage down under 200 watts, but its still well above what the base PS4 launched at (150 watts).

MS's slim is out next year so they are likely still on the 7nm node.

 

[Dorfdad]

Consoles sales down due to inflation. Lots of people hurting for just rent and food right now. Buying a premier system isnt on the radar for most people right now. They either have one or are riding out the current one till economy is better.

Also maybe im wrong but the XBOX numbers while still in third are pretty good. Yeah they down a little but they are performing around the smae if not better than last gen if Im reading this right.

 

[azertydu91]

I mean, what are we even talking about here? MS just closed the biggest deal in video gaming history. Are you suggesting they're going to shutter the Xbox division and kill Actiblizz? It's certainly possible, but highly unlikely.

Not at all but becoming 3rd party would avoid them bleeding money and increase sales and profit substantially.Something that could not be done with zune or mixer...Ms is moving toward an hardwareless future why wouldn't Xbox?
And until cloud become viable to (emphasis on) everyone then becoming 3rd party seems to best their best option.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I mean, what are we even talking about here? MS just closed the biggest deal in video gaming history. Are you suggesting they're going to shutter the Xbox division and kill Actiblizz? It's certainly possible, but highly unlikely.

I don't think anybody here is suggesting that all of 30+ Xbox studios will get disbanded and vanish in thin air all of a sudden.

The argument is that Xbox may abandon its hardware and become a third-party publisher (as Activision and Bethesda have always been). Xbox has already kinda started it with Ori on Switch, As Dusk Falls on PS5, and Game Pass on Meta Quest.

 

[Deerock71]

They signed a decade long agreement to keep CoD on multiple systems to keep the Actiblizz sale on track. That is precisely how long I would expect to see CoD multiplat. They're playing the long game.

 

[Heisenberg007]

They signed a decade long agreement to keep CoD on multiple systems to keep the Actiblizz sale on track. That is precisely how long I would expect to see CoD multiplat. They're playing the long game.

How long though?

https://www.thegamer.com/xbox-exit-...-pass-doesnt-get-enough-subscribers-pc-cloud/

"A majority of our customers are found off of our own hardware, I would hope by earlier than 2030," Spencer said. "So, when you asked me if I agreed with this chart that the light green and blue depending on what colours you see there would have to be much larger much earlier. I would say by FY26, '27 that we should be in that position, or we'd have to make a different decision with the business."

"I can safely say that if we do not make more progress than this off console, we would exit the gaming business," Spencer said.

Phil Spencer says if GP doesn't get to 100 million subscribers by 2027, they would exit the gaming business. COD will stay on PlayStation at least until 2032-2033.

Their long game doesn't start after 2033; it ends before 2028.

 

[Deerock71]

I imagine they'll start putting the squeeze on Playstation owners with the next Call of Duty. They'll run all the advertising for it, give a small mention to other platforms you can play it on, but blast DAY 1 ON GAME PASS and make sure that's the last thing you see.

 

[Tsaki]

Also maybe im wrong but the XBOX numbers while still in third are pretty good. Yeah they down a little but they are performing around the smae if not better than last gen if Im reading this right.

Nah this is the worst November for Xbox console sales since 2006. Absolutely dreadful numbers for MS's flagship territory

 

[Dorfdad]

How long though?

https://www.thegamer.com/xbox-exit-...-pass-doesnt-get-enough-subscribers-pc-cloud/

"A majority of our customers are found off of our own hardware, I would hope by earlier than 2030," Spencer said. "So, when you asked me if I agreed with this chart that the light green and blue depending on what colours you see there would have to be much larger much earlier. I would say by FY26, '27 that we should be in that position, or we'd have to make a different decision with the business."

"I can safely say that if we do not make more progress than this off console, we would exit the gaming business," Spencer said.

Phil Spencer says if GP doesn't get to 100 million subscribers by 2027, they would exit the gaming business. COD will stay on PlayStation at least until 2032-2033.

Their long game doesn't start after 2033; it ends before 2028.

Does this include 100% parity? Will xbox become the COD default console for events? Can they add exclusive levels / weapons etc to XBOX owners that others don't get? Many ways to make people play on xbox over other consoles unless it's stated 100% across the board.

 

[Humdinger]

Xbox looks beaten, only three years into the gen. Especially if you combine this data with the European.

 

[Horseganador]

 

[kazuyamishima]

In about 1 or 2 years, MS will be giving away a Series X when you buy an Xbox controller.