Kenshin001
Member
Isn't it cheaper?
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NPD December 2011 Sales Results [Up5: Star Wars: The Old Republic Sales]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Isn't it cheaper?
MightyHedgehog
Member
There's still no real evidence that there aren't more regular gamers coming from that millions-strong base of consumers who bought the Wii over the last five years. (It does take time to grow into this hobby, so Wii-only kids are still due to upgrade in one direction or another.) Perhaps, many of them will be the ones to help kickstart the Wii U since Ninty does have tens of millions of new fans of the brand and platform. A lot of those people are probably many who are picking up X360 and PS3s this year thanks to Ninty's real lack of effort with new original software for Wii in the last few years, but a lot of them could be the type to take a simple BC-powered upgrade from Wii to Wii U.
Anyway, I think it's a bit premature to assume that low relative numbers for 2011 and, December in particular, mean something terrible when we've had enough information over the last decade that it was already fundamentally screwed up and unsustainable going forward since the late 90s. This current sales performance, I think, is more down to price points being still too high to effectively reach the current base of buyers who would normally bite at the sub-$200 level. The prices just need to be revised downward to correctly match the significant loss in real buying power for those under that traditional line in North America and Europe.
Additionally, I think it is, over the next couple of years, that the pricing model for console software (where everything, regardless of actual budget or potential sales, is $50 or $60) is about to prove its overall inability to cope with the fast-changing and evolving majority of buyers in the market who are exposed to inexpensive entertainment options that exist everywhere now. Ninty with Wii U, I think, needs to be the one to introduce more flexible pricing from the start this year instead of slowly rolling out changes that might only apply to a minority of games introduced along with the system. Unfortunately, Wii U's majority of software will very likely be ported X360 and PS3 multiplatform titles with a smattering of Wii U-exclusive functionality and features...$60 titles that now have a little more work done to them. That's a shame, IMO, but if there's really significant pent-up demand for new consoles, Ninty with Wii U stands a chance at taking things over from the start before the other two start, even while sticking to the existing price tiers. If Wii U doesn't charge right out of the gate, it could well be a bad sign for other new platforms, but it's hard to guess without price, software lineup, and without knowing if the next MS and Sony platforms are comparable enough.
Basically, I think that a quick evolution of the current pricing situation will correct things a bit, but it won't be able to happen easily on current platforms that are already locked in to a certain way of doing things and whose price points are too familiar to consumers to make a real difference now or in the near future. (Unless someone tries an expensive makeover on one of the current platforms to maximize return...) Next gen consoles need to be more than just new control concepts and larger numbers in new boxes if they are to remain credible entertainment options for the numbers of consumers needed to support their investment. The pricing must still come down to earth to match the market's weaker buying power and new, lower pricing thresholds. With that new pricing should come more sustainable budgets and expectations for software. A low point in numbers now means nothing except that we're past the halfway point for the sales of current gen and a change in tack is needed.
Anyway, I think it's a bit premature to assume that low relative numbers for 2011 and, December in particular, mean something terrible when we've had enough information over the last decade that it was already fundamentally screwed up and unsustainable going forward since the late 90s. This current sales performance, I think, is more down to price points being still too high to effectively reach the current base of buyers who would normally bite at the sub-$200 level. The prices just need to be revised downward to correctly match the significant loss in real buying power for those under that traditional line in North America and Europe.
Additionally, I think it is, over the next couple of years, that the pricing model for console software (where everything, regardless of actual budget or potential sales, is $50 or $60) is about to prove its overall inability to cope with the fast-changing and evolving majority of buyers in the market who are exposed to inexpensive entertainment options that exist everywhere now. Ninty with Wii U, I think, needs to be the one to introduce more flexible pricing from the start this year instead of slowly rolling out changes that might only apply to a minority of games introduced along with the system. Unfortunately, Wii U's majority of software will very likely be ported X360 and PS3 multiplatform titles with a smattering of Wii U-exclusive functionality and features...$60 titles that now have a little more work done to them. That's a shame, IMO, but if there's really significant pent-up demand for new consoles, Ninty with Wii U stands a chance at taking things over from the start before the other two start, even while sticking to the existing price tiers. If Wii U doesn't charge right out of the gate, it could well be a bad sign for other new platforms, but it's hard to guess without price, software lineup, and without knowing if the next MS and Sony platforms are comparable enough.
Basically, I think that a quick evolution of the current pricing situation will correct things a bit, but it won't be able to happen easily on current platforms that are already locked in to a certain way of doing things and whose price points are too familiar to consumers to make a real difference now or in the near future. (Unless someone tries an expensive makeover on one of the current platforms to maximize return...) Next gen consoles need to be more than just new control concepts and larger numbers in new boxes if they are to remain credible entertainment options for the numbers of consumers needed to support their investment. The pricing must still come down to earth to match the market's weaker buying power and new, lower pricing thresholds. With that new pricing should come more sustainable budgets and expectations for software. A low point in numbers now means nothing except that we're past the halfway point for the sales of current gen and a change in tack is needed.
Allan Holdsworth
Member
Or they saw what happened to the 3DS with no software.
For Wii? No chance. A new worse model was introduced for the same price this year to up the profitability. The yen is too strong to sell it for $100. DSi/XL didn't drop in price after 3DS was out.
PS3 could drop to $200 I guess.
nah, the wii u was always planned for this year. however, it may have been moved to fall of this year to make sure it has a more robust lineup. i guess we'll find out at e3 since i think it's pretty unlikely the mid-2012 release date is going to stick, or will be the launch date worldwide.
After all the talk since the 3DS launch about how Iwata says they don't want to repeat those mistakes with the Wii U I can't imagine the hardware launching before Q4 2012.
Point being? Sony is still doing poorly
AdventureRacing
Member
Hopefully they have some big software ready for launch. The wii is an example of what can be achieved by having a real big piece of system selling software available at launch. The 3DS and vita are examples of what happens when this isn't the case.
It doesn't matter how much potential your HW has unless you have the SW ready at launch to showcase it. This matters even more because early perception of a console can be hard to shake.
Sony should just focus in making profit in 2012 & 2013 and beyond.
Plus try to launch some new IP that could potentially become big, like how GOW was released late in PS2 life cycle (2005). The Last of US might be that game & probably a few others. that seems like smart strategy imo.
Fighting for second place is pointless at this stage.
Plus try to launch some new IP that could potentially become big, like how GOW was released late in PS2 life cycle (2005). The Last of US might be that game & probably a few others. that seems like smart strategy imo.
Fighting for second place is pointless at this stage.
Paracelsus
Member
Fact is Sony thinks it can keep with the 10 year cycle despite it being a half-failure of a console. At this point in the previous generation there wasn't a single console above 200$, their biggest mistake is thinking they can go on with the PS3+PSV even after 360 and Wii have been replaced by the next gen counterparts. Sony had to squeeze the scraps from the current generation and move on with PS4.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
In theory. In reality, Xbox 360 has a higher ASP, or at least it did a few months ago.
AceBandage
Banned
No Nintendo PR?
Weird.
Weird.
Hiro_Kunimi_80
Member
5% up... with a 50$ price cut and the direct competitors up YOY 5% too without any price cut ?
well
..
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Hiro_Kunimi_80 said:
After the hacking scandal and lengthy PSN outage this year, I think Sony'll be pleased that they are in the black.
The US has been their weakest territory all generation so expectations need to be kept low.
Bottom line is that if they make their yearly global shipment targets, they'll be happy enough.
airmangataosenai
Member
Even if 3DS didn't do as well as expected, you'd think that Nintendo would have a PR statement out by now about Mario Kart being the top non-multiplatform release or something by now.
Incredible year for 360 and early in the year I would have never imagined without a price cut especially so in the face of price cuts from the others. They were smart to hold off on the price drop in 2011. 2012 should be interesting.
Have LTDs been posted? PS3 YoY with the price cut comparison?
Overall horrible year for the industry and particularly a horrible month.
Edit: Ah so 360 cut off about 2.7M of the Wii lead for 2011 eh? Good stuff.
AdventureRacing
Member
Yeah earlier in the year i thought MS should have cut the price but i was proven wrong. Now they still have that ace up their sleeve for next year to keep their momentum going into next gen.
Souldriver
Member
Sooo, are we not gonna get any 3DS number at all? I know the 1.4ish million floats around, but I want an official NPD result.
Exactly.. Not even price drops are helping PS3 much...
Console makers are going to sell all those Call of Warfare players a new box that lets them shoot twice as many of their friends in the face over the interwebs at twice the resolution, and they're going to buy those boxes to get that experience. They're not going to substitute it with a bunch of $.99 titles dug out of an app store bin just because they happen to have a smartphone.
Umm...Sony has cared more about profitability for years now.
MS claimed they would be the best selling console WW, not just in the US. They may have done that still, but it's too early to say for certain.
Also SMH at the UC3 comment. It's not quite as good as UC2, but it's still a great game.
That has nothing to do with the market shrinking, it has more to do with development costs rising and some poor decisions.
You're ignoring how much digital sales have increased over the last few years.
Last I checked the average selling price of the 360 was higher than the PS3, so price isn't a factor here.
creamsugar said it was very near to 360, so we're in the 1.6-1.7 territory.
Believe me: 5 Mio. (WW) sold copies for a game -> Sony is happy with these numbers & $$$!
edit:
btw. I feel sorry for you if you think 5 Mio. sold copies (example: U2) isn't a "sales hit".
Star Wars The Old Republic: over 600,000
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...s-in-2011-fall-8-per-cent-after-weak-december
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...s-in-2011-fall-8-per-cent-after-weak-december
5 million shipped....
A lot of the purported Uncharted 2 sales have happened under the radar, outside of the NPD top 10 and in European markets for which we don't get numbers.
So with 6.3 million consoles sold that leaves about 2.6 million for 3DS, DS, PSP PS2 and whatever else might have sold a few units. Assuming the PS2 hasn't made a sudden comeback, that looks quite healthy for the 3DS. Microsoft never actually said that the 360 had the top spot for december; any chance the 3DS outdid it?
And it was #14? Means Skyward Sword actually sold pretty well since it would be ahead of it.
Shame it's bombing everywhere else.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Finally got a chance to look over the thread, some observations:
- Awareness of Black Friday sales by value-conscious consumers has obviously increased in North America. Why wait for December shopping when everything is crazy discounted the last week of November? Last month's results gave us a skewed perspective on growth this holiday, this month's sends us back to reality.
- If the sales blurbs in the OP are true, Zelda SS was outsold by 3 Kinect games (JD3 360, DC2, and KS:S2) this month. Great job Nintendo, great job.
- Skryim beat even the most bullish projections. A single player RPG outsold Battlefield 3 in North America in 2011. Absolutely unbelievable. I haven't even opened my copy yet.
- Just Dance is the new Guitar Hero, with DC playing the role of Rock Band. The question is, where do they go from here? If the guitar craze taught us anything, it's that this won't last with annual song packs being the only real incentive to upgrade. We've already seen some examples in the UK of Zumba Fitness and Dance Central outselling their sequels.
- 3DS has finally broken out of "bomba" zone into something respectable. Looking back on 2011, Nintendo was wise to hastily drop the price, as the long term health of the platform will greatly outweigh the short term losses they took. The sales of Metal Gear and Resident Evil in the coming months will be very important to the future of software support for the platform - though I can't imagine either title will sell nearly as poorly as Peace Walker on PSP (<60k first month).
- You have to wonder how much the NBA coming back on Christmas helped 2k12 sales in December. The general assumption was that the game was going to underperform compared to its predecessor.
- The 360 will see a price drop in 2012, MS no longer has any choice if their new console isn't coming out this year. $199 for the 250GB Elite, or 4GB + Kinect bundles. Arcade at $149 or less. 720 has to be fall 2013.
- The Wii is going to have a rough year. Limited release of Xenoblade and legacy sales of Just Dance/Zelda are pretty much all it has going for it until Wii U launch. I don't expect Nintendo to drop the price. Why would they? They have nothing to sell new customers. Wii U is Nintendo's only concern. Here's hoping we hear some new software announcements leading up to E3.
- The PS3 is in a strange place. I honestly don't understand why its sales would be down. It probably would have helped if they had some kind of ad campaign for the Just Dance 3 release, it was a big mover for both Wii and 360. Aside from dropping to $199, Sony doesn't really have any other cards to play. 2014 is a joke. 2013 is when we will see the PS4.
- The Vita could not have picked a worse time to launch here. Consumers are more price conscious than ever, and every other console on the market has at least half a dozen AAA games releasing in Q1. Not having a Call of Duty lined up for launch was a grave oversight.
- Awareness of Black Friday sales by value-conscious consumers has obviously increased in North America. Why wait for December shopping when everything is crazy discounted the last week of November? Last month's results gave us a skewed perspective on growth this holiday, this month's sends us back to reality.
- If the sales blurbs in the OP are true, Zelda SS was outsold by 3 Kinect games (JD3 360, DC2, and KS:S2) this month. Great job Nintendo, great job.
- Skryim beat even the most bullish projections. A single player RPG outsold Battlefield 3 in North America in 2011. Absolutely unbelievable. I haven't even opened my copy yet.
- Just Dance is the new Guitar Hero, with DC playing the role of Rock Band. The question is, where do they go from here? If the guitar craze taught us anything, it's that this won't last with annual song packs being the only real incentive to upgrade. We've already seen some examples in the UK of Zumba Fitness and Dance Central outselling their sequels.
- 3DS has finally broken out of "bomba" zone into something respectable. Looking back on 2011, Nintendo was wise to hastily drop the price, as the long term health of the platform will greatly outweigh the short term losses they took. The sales of Metal Gear and Resident Evil in the coming months will be very important to the future of software support for the platform - though I can't imagine either title will sell nearly as poorly as Peace Walker on PSP (<60k first month).
- You have to wonder how much the NBA coming back on Christmas helped 2k12 sales in December. The general assumption was that the game was going to underperform compared to its predecessor.
- The 360 will see a price drop in 2012, MS no longer has any choice if their new console isn't coming out this year. $199 for the 250GB Elite, or 4GB + Kinect bundles. Arcade at $149 or less. 720 has to be fall 2013.
- The Wii is going to have a rough year. Limited release of Xenoblade and legacy sales of Just Dance/Zelda are pretty much all it has going for it until Wii U launch. I don't expect Nintendo to drop the price. Why would they? They have nothing to sell new customers. Wii U is Nintendo's only concern. Here's hoping we hear some new software announcements leading up to E3.
- The PS3 is in a strange place. I honestly don't understand why its sales would be down. It probably would have helped if they had some kind of ad campaign for the Just Dance 3 release, it was a big mover for both Wii and 360. Aside from dropping to $199, Sony doesn't really have any other cards to play. 2014 is a joke. 2013 is when we will see the PS4.
- The Vita could not have picked a worse time to launch here. Consumers are more price conscious than ever, and every other console on the market has at least half a dozen AAA games releasing in Q1. Not having a Call of Duty lined up for launch was a grave oversight.
Not true. The NPD release clearly states that on an individual basis only Skyward Sword would be added to the top 10. So it's above Kinect Sports and Dance Central for sure.
people really take to seriously. Good numbers for a 7 year console cicle and both PS360 have done well, they are still expensive, both of them, and afaik never the 3rd in the generation sold so well at the end of the generation.
Next year both will probably hit below 199 and they will still do nice numbers.
I have my doubts about WiiU though, i think unless it is well below 299 it won't set the charts on fire either.
I am fine as i do not expect new consoles from Sony or MS before 2013's fall
Next year both will probably hit below 199 and they will still do nice numbers.
I have my doubts about WiiU though, i think unless it is well below 299 it won't set the charts on fire either.
I am fine as i do not expect new consoles from Sony or MS before 2013's fall
maybe if it was multiplatform we could have a better idea of its appeal. In fact those games have sold more thatn Gears that is a game with a lot of appeal in the US
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Ah, I see now. I thought the NPD quote stated Zelda was 10th overall by individual SKU.
So considering that TOR sold 600k and didn't even chart, it's safe to say that Skyrim and BF3 probably cleared at least 1m each. That would put both over 4M LTD. I wonder how much over 1M each sold in December.
Just Dance 3 is ridiculous. I wonder how much those games cost to develop/license. Also, is Just Dace 2 the highest selling third party exclusive this gen?
Just Dance 3 is ridiculous. I wonder how much those games cost to develop/license. Also, is Just Dace 2 the highest selling third party exclusive this gen?
By "under the radar" you mean "they counted bundled copies".
I don't like it when sales thread go to archives because you can't quote posts (with a click, that is), and they become invisible to Google search (yes, there are situations where it's more useful than the forum search).
On the plus side it's easy to find them: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14
This too.
are you sure? i used google earlier to find the november npd.
bgassassin
Member
>_>
Oh well, I've wrote 2011 accidentally a couple times this month as well.
I've already been expecting the console market to shrink next gen. IMO if it weren't for the introduction of the non-gamer this gen we would have seen the shrink this gen.
The URL doesn't change, so Google will always remember them because they won't be down. But using the search to find specific posts doesn't work as well -- at least from my experience. Maybe I've just been unlucky with the searches when I tired.
EDIT: I just tested an older thread (December 2008) and it doesn't appear on Google at all, so I guess Google will just "give up" when they keep finding the "you need to log in" message every time. But if you can find it on Google, please let me know how. =P
I didn't expect such a slow month after a strong November.
I don't know what happened, maybe it was a slow holiday season and the people who wanted to buy things/make gifts etc did it on Black Friday.
It will be interesting to see January numbers...if there's a downward trend or not.
I don't know what happened, maybe it was a slow holiday season and the people who wanted to buy things/make gifts etc did it on Black Friday.
It will be interesting to see January numbers...if there's a downward trend or not.
pharmboy044
Member
If UC3 was multiplatform, it would have probably outsold both of those titles.
Don't really think that hardware sales slowing down is something to worry about. At some point it had to happen, the market has hit saturation point.
Normally by this point a new generation would have started, and that would be a new hardware piece for the early adopters to start buying, driving overall sales up. The fact that the 3DS has been selling really well makes this drop in hardware sales bigger.
What's really important is the (smaller) drop in software sales, with the huge install base of consoles that exists.
Normally by this point a new generation would have started, and that would be a new hardware piece for the early adopters to start buying, driving overall sales up. The fact that the 3DS has been selling really well makes this drop in hardware sales bigger.
What's really important is the (smaller) drop in software sales, with the huge install base of consoles that exists.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
PS3 price cut only brought it to a relative price parity with X360, it's no wonder MS didn't rush to compensate. Especially considering that the cheapest X360 variant is still cheaper than the cheapest PS3 variant.
skyrim? highly unlikely.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
>_>
Oh well, I've wrote 2011 accidentally a couple times this month as well.
I've already been expecting the console market to shrink next gen. IMO if it weren't for the introduction of the non-gamer this gen we would have seen the shrink this gen.
Haha!
Hadn't even noticed that.
Last year of course.