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[pestul]

Yikes. It's difficult to say whether or not launching Vita into a market like this is a good idea or not. :S

I know most GAF prophets assume we're ripe for nextgen consoles/handhelds, but I just have this bad feeling. I really hope it blisters out of the gate to restore a bit of confidence.

 

[Lovegooder]

I can't figure out who and why people are buying 360s.

Then you must really be scratching your head trying to figure out who isn't and why people aren't buying PS3s.

 

[allan-bh]

Saying that the NPD will lose subscribers, if they release to public hardware numbers and top 10 software (with numbers), doesn't make any sense.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Saying that the NPD will lose subscribers, if they release to public hardware numbers and top 10 software (with numbers), doesn't make any sense.

NPD stopped releasing HW numbers because manufacturers felt it was in their best interest to release that information as they saw fit. NPD saw no reason to not comply. If the 360 were to fall behind, it's pretty obvious that MS would get tight-lipped with the numbers as well. If all 3 companies start getting smacked around by Apple, the monthly release will just be the top 10 with no data.

 

[Petrae]

Saying that the NPD will lose subscribers, if they release to public hardware numbers and top 10 software (with numbers), doesn't make any sense.

Why is that? If that information is publicly available-- and it's the centerpiece of the monthly report that subscribers pay top dollar for-- then it's arguably in the best interests of NPD to lock down that information to keep subscriptions active.

If anything, why not look to the industry and its PR? Why have they gone silent and cryptic, with the exception of Microsoft? As jvm pointed out earlier in the thread, PR used to be a lot more forthcoming with their stats-- and NPD doesn't discourage dissemination of the their data if the participating companies (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo) choose to do so.

NPD has its reasons, whether we choose to agree with them or not, but the silence from PR is pretty deafening, too.

 

[allan-bh]

Why is that? If that information is publicly available-- and it's the centerpiece of the monthly report that subscribers pay top dollar for-- then it's arguably in the best interests of NPD to lock down that information to keep subscriptions active.

Media Create provide public top 50 software (top 20 with numbers) and hardware numbers, every week.

NPD doesn't lose a single subscriber if they release hardware and top 10 monthly. People pay for much more than just that.

 

[donny2112]

Would we be getting approximately 300K for Mario as well, or would this be the only useable data from their statements?

I'd lean more towards using Petrae's earlier 180K estimate based on "just under 4.1m" in 2011 and "just over 4.25m" this month. Also Nintendo has really stunk lately for providing reliable numbers. Since they've been so desperate to pad their numbers in the past 6 months, the Mario total probably includes hardware bundles! :lol

Just to point out: NPD will have 90%+ (est.) coverage of the U.S. video game retail market when they include Wal-mart. (I forgot before they also have TRU.) This will make their data even more valuable, since the margin of error should go down dramatically. They will likely retain, or even pick up, subscriptions and justifiably charge more for it.

Chart-Track: U.S. Edition

*looks at combined SKU/platform numberless rankings*

For realz.

It is with Media Create in Japan

See Chris1964's comment. Also, we get a weekly software Top 20 and Top 50 ranking + hardware for free from Media Create. The yearly data is a book that cost 100s of dollars. Famitsu gives away weekly Top 30 for free and sells a similar book. They also both provide monthly/fuller/researched data for their clients, as well. They offer a lot more than we get weekly for free but for the armchair analyst, that's pretty much all we need to feel like we have a good view of the market.

NPD gives out Chart-Track style rankings from a few years ago, which are nearly useless for the typical armchair analyst. :/

 

[Road]

Chart-Track: U.S. Edition

*looks at combined SKU/platform numberless rankings*

For realz.

That's unfair to Chart-Track. They provide combined rankings, by platform and platform-specific rankings. And they do it every week, instead of once a month.

Right now it's more interesting to pay attention to Rentrak as far as software sales are concerned. No number for no number, I'll take no number every week.

 

[Basch]

I don't understand how America can be ignoring the PS3 still. I mean sales were fairly good for the past 2-3 years, but now it's as if all the games have mysteriously vanished. Why else would sales decline? The library is even stronger now than it was before. Why is it declining?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I don't understand how America can be ignoring the PS3 still. I mean sales were fairly good for the past 2-3 years, but now it's as if all the games have mysteriously vanished. Why else would sales decline? The library is even stronger now than it was before. Why is it declining?

Mindshare.

 

[donny2112]

That's unfair to Chart-Track. They provide combined rankings, by platform and platform-specific rankings. And they do it every week, instead of once a month.

A few years ago, they didn't break out the Top 40 by platform. It was combined SKU/platform. Think they still did the platform Tops, though, so yeah, as crazy as it is, NPD's usefulness of freely provided data has now fallen significantly behind Chart-Track of a few years ago. *shakes head*

 

[Basch]

Mindshare.

I suppose, but you'd think games like Uncharted, God of War, inFamous, Resistance, and Ratchet and Clank would have more reach. They are created by American companies for American audiences. Granted, Sony has too many games to advertise for any single one like Microsoft, but still. Anybody with Internet should have heard of these titles by now.

 

[jvm]

Unfortunately, no. That's not a reliable extrapolation at all.

Thank heavens someone finally said it. I was going crazy.

 

[Lynn616]

What are the NPD LTDs for 360, PS3 and Wii?

 

[szaromir]

I suppose, but you'd think games like Uncharted, God of War, inFamous, Resistance, and Ratchet and Clank would have more reach. They are created by American companies for American audiences. Granted, Sony has too many games to advertise for any single one like Microsoft, but still. Anybody with Internet should have heard of these titles by now.

General audience doesn't play list wars.

 

[Petrae]

I don't understand how America can be ignoring the PS3 still. I mean sales were fairly good for the past 2-3 years, but now it's as if all the games have mysteriously vanished. Why else would sales decline? The library is even stronger now than it was before. Why is it declining?

The PlayStation brand is in decline in the US and Xbox has succeeded it at the fore of gaming consumer consciousness. I don't argue that the PS3 has its selling points, but mass market is generally indifferent. Strong advertising/marketing, comparable pricing, word-of-mouth, competitive software library... the Xbox 360 has all of these things. Sony's first-party exclusives haven't resonated with consumers as they once did.

The fact that the PS3 finished second should be a good sign, but it's still getting badly outpaced by the Xbox 360, now by nearly 13 million units-- and that gap widens every month.

 

[bigtroyjon]

I suppose, but you'd think games like Uncharted, God of War, inFamous, Resistance, and Ratchet and Clank would have more reach. They are created by American companies for American audiences. Granted, Sony has too many games to advertise for any single one like Microsoft, but still. Anybody with Internet should have heard of these titles by now.

Those games appeal to a tiny portion of the gaming public in the US, advertising has little to do with it. People buy consoles for multi plats like Madden, NBA, COD and Skyrim/Fallout. Last gen those 3rd party games were sold mainly on PS2 so the Sony exclusives sales rose with the user base, this gen that user base is on another console.

 

[Ramblin]

I suppose, but you'd think games like Uncharted, God of War, inFamous, Resistance, and Ratchet and Clank would have more reach. They are created by American companies for American audiences. Granted, Sony has too many games to advertise for any single one like Microsoft, but still. Anybody with Internet should have heard of these titles by now.

It's all about where your friends are.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Yikes. It's difficult to say whether or not launching Vita into a market like this is a good idea or not. :S

I know most GAF prophets assume we're ripe for nextgen consoles/handhelds, but I just have this bad feeling. I really hope it blisters out of the gate to restore a bit of confidence.

Actually i think a lot of people on GAF aren't confident about the vitas prospects at all (at least initially anyway). I have no idea how things will turn out but the hype around the machine is about as low as i can remember. I feel like if you don't know where to look you wouldn't even know the thing is launching.

 

[Road]

What are the NPD LTDs for 360, PS3 and Wii?

Wii: 39 million.
360: 33 million.
PS3: 20 million.

+/- 500k.

Be glad we can still be so precise.

 

[Karma]

I can't figure out who and why people are buying 360s. No software to dirve sales, must be casual Kinect crap and people replacing non-S models.

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
2. Call of Duty: Black Ops
3. FIFA 12
4. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
5. Battlefield 3
6. Halo: Reach
7. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
8. Gears of War 3
9. NBA 2K12
10. Madden NFL 12
11. Grand Theft Auto IV
12. Forza Motorsport 4
13. Saints Row: The Third
14. NHL12
15. Halo 3
16. Assassin’s Creed: Revelations
17. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
18. Red Dead Redemption
19. NBA 2K11
20. Batman: Arkham City

 

[pvpness]

14 hours later and still no more numbers than we had when this thread started. The NPD threads are officially just as informative and fun as the PAL sales threads.

Will Nintendo never bother again with a press release or something? You'd think that it's due to bad sales, but last december the 3DS did well and yet they kept their mouth shut.

And the truly sad part is that now we're hoping for PR releases to get numbers, while those PR releases used to be just fun because they spinned numbers that we already knew anyway.



I'm a sad panda.

I'm with ya. Was a sad day, the day the numbers died. Gaf is a much, much different place than it was even two years ago.

Oh, and yeah, new consoles please. This generation has sucked for many months at this point. Wish Nintendo woulda released their new system last christmas.

 

[Basch]

General audience doesn't play list wars.

Not a list war. I was giving examples of American games for the PS3 the general public should recognize. I mean, God of War is probably just as well known as Gears of War, and Uncharted is becoming an extremely popular franchise. Microsoft secured it's install base early on with Gears 1/2, Halo 3, and Fable 2. I'm sure Oblivion helped as well. Ever since, PS3 has been playing catch up, and I do believe it has everything to do with advertising.

 

[Petrae]

Wii: 39 million.
360: 33 million.
PS3: 20 million.

+/- 500k.

That is remarkably accurate. I will vouch for the validity of these numbers.

 

[Lynn616]

Wii: 39 million.
360: 33 million.
PS3: 20 million.

+/- 500k.

Be glad we can still be so precise.

Thank you.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Not a list war. I was giving examples of American games for the PS3 the general public should recognize. I mean, God of War is probably just as well known as Gears of War, and Uncharted is becoming an extremely popular franchise. Microsoft secured it's install base early on with Gears 1/2, Halo 3, and Fable 2. I'm sure Oblivion helped as well. Ever since, PS3 has been playing catch up, and I do believe it has everything to do with advertising.

Read the OP. That's a list of the types of games that Americans want to play. A game being made in America has nothing to do with how it sells in America.

Microsoft secured it's base with a lower priced console and a better online service. That's all that really mattered since people buy the HD consoles for 3rd party stuff. All those games you listed for the 360 have only sold to a fraction of the user base.

 

[Hayeya]

Sony PR: During January The playstation family enjoyed..... , oh wait never mind, Nothing good to report. we cant play the % game anymore, Please buy the PSV, Please, Beg you.

 

[Captain Smoker]

We get more data for Denmark than for USA, what the fuck.

 

[Basch]

Read the OP. That's a list of the types of games that Americans want to play. A game being made in America has nothing to do with how it sells in America.

Microsoft secured it's base with a lower priced console and a better online service. That's all that really mattered since people buy the HD consoles for 3rd party stuff. All those games you listed for the 360 have only sold to a fraction of the user base.

Better online service is arguable at this point. Lower priced console? Sure, but not by much. Not to mention, most of the consoles with Kinect cost $300. PS3 retails at $250, and no one buys the Move bundle. Not to mention, the PS3 has all of the multiplats too, and as far as Microsoft is concerned they only see a fraction of the overall multiplatform sales. Others I'm sure buy the PS3 for multiplats as well. The user base is split. Games like Gears of War I'm sure still sell far more on the 360 than for example Arkham City did on the 360. So what makes you think the reason people buy the 360 is because of the multiplats?

 

[bigtroyjon]

Better online service is arguable at this point. Lower priced console? Sure, but not by much. Not to mention, most of the consoles with Kinect cost $300. PS3 retails at $250, and no one buys the Move bundle. Not to mention, the PS3 has all of the multiplats too, and as far as Microsoft is concerned they only see a fraction of the overall multiplatform sales. Others I'm sure by the PS3 for multiplats as well. The user base is split. Games like Gears of War I'm sure still sell far more on the 360 than for example Arkham City did on the 360. So what makes you think the reason people buy the 360 is because of the multiplats?

I have no idea what you are trying to say but 3rd party games account for a giant majority of each consoles game sales. Gears has sold to 10% of the 360 user base. Why would that be a system seller and not COD which is closer to 50%?

The best selling 360 games are COD games. The best selling PS3 games are COD games. It's not that complicated.

 

[Lynn616]

So what makes you think the reason people buy the 360 is because of the multiplats?

The software sales shown in the OP?

 

[Kusagari]

Better online service is arguable at this point. Lower priced console? Sure, but not by much. Not to mention, most of the consoles with Kinect cost $300. PS3 retails at $250, and no one buys the Move bundle. Not to mention, the PS3 has all of the multiplats too, and as far as Microsoft is concerned they only see a fraction of the overall multiplatform sales. Others I'm sure buy the PS3 for multiplats as well. The user base is split. Games like Gears of War I'm sure still sell far more on the 360 than for example Arkham City did on the 360. So what makes you think the reason people buy the 360 is because of the multiplats?

The reason people buy 360's in America is because that's where their friends are. That's the main reason besides Kinect. 360 launching earlier, and PS3 having a horrible launch, put the 360 into far more peoples households. And then those same people told their friends to buy a 360 to play online with them.

In a gen in which the HD consoles have been dominated by online, that early launch and gap gave the 360 all the momentum it needed. Sony had a chance if the PS3 started off selling well, but they fucked it up.

 

[alphaNoid]

I don't understand how America can be ignoring the PS3 still. I mean sales were fairly good for the past 2-3 years, but now it's as if all the games have mysteriously vanished. Why else would sales decline? The library is even stronger now than it was before. Why is it declining?

In short, "Xbox" is to console as "Kleenex" is to tissue. It wasn't always that way in the US, it used to be called Nintendo or Playstation but right now, media outlets, mindshare.. everything calls games in general "Xbox". I even heard a mom say she was buying her son an "Xbox" for Christmas ... she was holding a Nintendo DS

The Playstation brand is nowhere near what it was in the 90s, at least here in the US. The Xbox brand is dominant right now.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I suppose, but you'd think games like Uncharted, God of War, inFamous, Resistance, and Ratchet and Clank would have more reach. They are created by American companies for American audiences. Granted, Sony has too many games to advertise for any single one like Microsoft, but still. Anybody with Internet should have heard of these titles by now.

I can't speak for anyone else but for some reason the new Sony IPs this generation don't have the same pull as their PS2 franchises (many of which have already made the multiplatform jump). It's a nebulous sort of thing, and certainly doesn't speak to the quality of those games, but as far as that intangible thing that makes a game a MUST HAVE (and this certainly never has anything to do with quality) the PS3 franchises this gen are having trouble hitting that plateau.

 

[NIGHT-]

Are people taking AgentP seriously this is a guy who wrote the following with what i presume was a straight face.

Lol... Anyone that says r3 is one of the best fps, is indeed batshit crazy

 

[Basch]

I have no idea what you are trying to say but 3rd party games account for a giant majority of each consoles game sales. Gears has sold to 10% of the 360 user base. Why would that be a system seller and not COD which is closer to 50%?

The best selling 360 games are COD games. The best selling PS3 games are COD games. It's not that complicated.

Yeah, but that's one game. And last time I checked sales for MW3 was at 9 million, which is probably at 11 million now. And how much of that is exclusively 360 sales. 2/3rd's? So like 6-7 million, then? How many 360's have been sold in America? 40 mil? Something tells me that's not 50%. Not even close. Let alone the 360's entire user base. Gears 3 last I heard sold 4 million, which is far more than most multiplats sell on 360. The only games that probably outsold it on the 360 this past year was probably Skyrim and MW3. So clearly more people are buying games like Gears 3 on their 360 versus Arkham City, Deus Ex, AssCreed, and a bunch of others. So guess which one's going to get more advertising from Microsoft personally.

I don't think it's that hard to understand. Besides, why do people keep telling me to look at a chart with no numbers? Sales are down year over year. Not to mention, NPD combines all SKUs (360, PC, and PS3). So this tells us nothing about which 360 users favor: games like Gears and Halo, or general multiplats not named MW3 or Skyrim.

I can't speak for anyone else but for some reason the new Sony IPs this generation don't have the same pull as their PS2 franchises (many of which have already made the multiplatform jump). It's a nebulous sort of thing, and certainly doesn't speak to the quality of those games, but as far as that intangible thing that makes a game a MUST HAVE (and this certainly never has anything to do with quality) the PS3 franchises this gen are having trouble hitting that plateau.

This is generally what I meant. A lot of awareness has seemed to fade over time. Just look at Ratchet and Clank's sales as compared to the PS2 gen. It seems like the general public's perception of what's good has changed drastically. What used to be considered system sellers are now performing average sales or less.

Lol... Anyone that says r3 is one of the best fps, is indeed batshit crazy

Oh god, opinions. Whatever will we do? Should I go bury my head in the sand? I didn't like R3 that much, but I know of a lot of people that do genuinely love the game. Good for them! I think it's great when someone enjoys something that much. There's too much shit in this world to discourage them.

 

[Kusagari]

More people are buying Gears/Fable/Halo because MS does a brilliant job of marketing their franchises. The initial commercials and ads for Gears were brilliant. Sony, or at least SCEA, sucks ass at advertising, and I think everyone, even their biggest fans, admits that. It's a big reason why Uncharted still hasn't become huge in America imo.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Yeah, but that's one game. And last time I checked sales for MW3 was at 9 million, which is probably at 11 million now. And how much of that is exclusively 360 sales. 2/3rd's? So like 6-7 million, then? How many 360's have been sold in America? 40 mil? Something tells me that's not 50%. Not even close. Let alone the 360's entire user base. Gears 3 last I heard sold 4 million, which is far more than most multiplats sell on 360. The only games that probably outsold it on the 360 this past year was probably Skyrim and MW3. So clearly more people are buying games like Gears 3 on their 360 versus Arkham City, Deus Ex, AssCreed, and a bunch of others. So guess which one's going to get more advertising from Microsoft personally.

I don't think it's that hard to understand. Besides, why do people keep telling me to look at a chart with no numbers? Sales are down year over year. Not to mention, NPD combines all SKUs (360, PC, and PS3). So this tells us nothing about which 360 users favor: games like Gears and Halo, or general multiplats not named MW3 or Skyrim.

Notice the 3 after MW. It's not the first COD game. And this also isn't the first NPD thread. Go look at past threads if you actually care and aren't just here being intentionally obtuse.

Going to be the last post of yours I read, so sorry in advance when I don't respond to the next babble filled post you put out there.

More people are buying Gears/Fable/Halo because MS does a brilliant job of marketing their franchises. The initial commercials and ads for Gears were brilliant. Sony, or at least SCEA, sucks ass at advertising, and I think everyone, even their biggest fans, admits that. It's a big reason why Uncharted still hasn't become huge in America imo.

That doesn't even really matter in this discussion though, even MS first party games sell little compared to the overall user base. Games that sell to 5-10% of the user base aren't the reason why that console is selling. It's the 3rd party games that as a collective sell to 100% of the user base.

 

[Basch]

Notice the 3 after MW. It's not the first COD game. And this also isn't the first NPD thread. Go look at past threads if you actually care and aren't just here being intentionally obtuse.

Going to be the last post of yours I read, so sorry in advance when I don't respond to the next babble filled post you put out there.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I like how you debated none of the points, even though each one I brought up were reasonable. Besides, my guess is you probably are reading this, which means you doubt yourself. Also, yes, I've read and been apart of the last three NPD threads. I'm not being obtuse, you're just being ignorant. I spent the last hour or two researching the topic before posting. So if anything, I'm probably walking in more informed than most. But, honestly I'm glad you're going to be ignoring these posts, that way I don't feel obligated to respond as you bring nothing to the table.

It's the 3rd party games that as a collective sell to 100% of the user base.

Just Dance sells to a different audience than Skyrim or AssCreed or Batman. What's the point? You can't combine them like that. I wasn't combining Microsoft's first party. Each one individually has sold considerably more on the 360 than most other multiplats. End of story.

 

[Kusagari]

That doesn't even really matter in this discussion though, even MS first party games sell little compared to the overall user base. Games that sell to 5-10% of the user base aren't the reason why that console is selling. It's the 3rd party games that as a collective sell to 100% of the user base.

Oh, I agree, but it's why Sony's first party games sell bad in comparison to MS's. In the end, MS's are just higher profile in America.

360 has the most users, thus everyone buys it to play the multi plats, like CoD, on it with their friends. The only real system seller first party MS has is Kinect.

 

[Opiate]

More people are buying Gears/Fable/Halo because MS does a brilliant job of marketing their franchises. The initial commercials and ads for Gears were brilliant. Sony, or at least SCEA, sucks ass at advertising, and I think everyone, even their biggest fans, admits that. It's a big reason why Uncharted still hasn't become huge in America imo.

In specific cases I might agree, but I typically bristle at this explanation; it's frequently cited as an excuse by fans of any particular product to explain why it's not selling well. If you do not want to admit the product has flaws and/or might not be palatable to many audiences, then the safest solution is to claim that the amazing, perfect awesomeness of the product simply isn't be communicated well through advertising.

This exculpates the product from any blame, and places all the blame on public perception. If people simply understood how awesome the game was, then it truly would be a hit! Again, this doesn't mean that this phenomenon has never happened in history, just that it's a frequent explanation to absolve any poorly performing company of blame.

 

[Chris1964]

Why is that? If that information is publicly available-- and it's the centerpiece of the monthly report that subscribers pay top dollar for-- then it's arguably in the best interests of NPD to lock down that information to keep subscriptions active.

Eh, giving at least a top 10 with numbers won't lead subsriptions away since the games that chart there are from the usual 5-10 companies that will always be subsribers. The lack of competition and the way the system works in NA has made NPD agnorant.

 

[Neuromancer]

Did NPD ever respond to Michael Pachter over his 'faulty data' suspicion?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Not a list war. I was giving examples of American games for the PS3 the general public should recognize. I mean, God of War is probably just as well known as Gears of War, and Uncharted is becoming an extremely popular franchise. Microsoft secured it's install base early on with Gears 1/2, Halo 3, and Fable 2. I'm sure Oblivion helped as well. Ever since, PS3 has been playing catch up, and I do believe it has everything to do with advertising.

Uncharted and God of War are very popular. As for the rest of the franchises you mentioned, they're simply not system sellers, and if a game is not truly exceptional, most people will just play something similar on a platform they already own.

 

[Kusagari]

In specific cases I might agree, but I typically bristle at this explanation; it's frequently cited as an excuse by fans of any particular product to explain why it's not selling well. If you do not want to admit the product has flaws and/or might not be palatable to many audiences, then the safest solution is to claim that the amazing, perfect awesomeness of the product simply isn't be communicated well through advertising.

This exculpates the product from any blame, and places all the blame on public perception. If people simply understood how awesome the game was, then it truly would be a hit! Again, this doesn't mean that this phenomenon has never happened in history, just that it's a frequent explanation to absolve any poorly performing company of blame.

I agree with you. The majority of Sony's franchises just don't resonate with gamers. Resistance, Infamous, Killzone...what really sets them apart from everything else? I think better marketing might have gotten them some more sales, but they were never approaching Halo or Gears level either way.

Uncharted, and I say this as someone who isn't really a fan of it, though is kind of an interesting case. It's such a critical darling, and its sales have gotten better with each installment. But it's still missing that 'spark' that takes it to the next level of sales and public conscious. I think it's up to Sony to do that, and they've failed miserably. They haven't made Uncharted seem special in the same way MS did with Gears and Halo.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Yeah, but that's one game. And last time I checked sales for MW3 was at 9 million, which is probably at 11 million now. And how much of that is exclusively 360 sales. 2/3rd's? So like 6-7 million, then? How many 360's have been sold in America? 40 mil? Something tells me that's not 50%. Not even close. Let alone the 360's entire user base. Gears 3 last I heard sold 4 million, which is far more than most multiplats sell on 360. The only games that probably outsold it on the 360 this past year was probably Skyrim and MW3. So clearly more people are buying games like Gears 3 on their 360 versus Arkham City, Deus Ex, AssCreed, and a bunch of others. So guess which one's going to get more advertising from Microsoft personally.

I don't think it's that hard to understand. Besides, why do people keep telling me to look at a chart with no numbers? Sales are down year over year. Not to mention, NPD combines all SKUs (360, PC, and PS3). So this tells us nothing about which 360 users favor: games like Gears and Halo, or general multiplats not named MW3 or Skyrim.



This is generally what I meant. A lot of awareness has seemed to fade over time. Just look at Ratchet and Clank's sales as compared to the PS2 gen. It seems like the general public's perception of what's good has changed drastically. What used to be considered system sellers are now performing average sales or less.



Oh god, opinions. Whatever will we do? Should I go bury my head in the sand? I didn't like R3 that much, but I know of a lot of people that do genuinely love the game. Good for them! I think it's great when someone enjoys something that much. There's too much shit in this world to discourage them.

Not getting involved in your guys debate, but just wanted to clarify, your numbers about Call of Duty are WAY off....there are probably 11 million copies of MW 3 sold on the 360 alone....probably another 9-10 million copies on the ps3...

 

[watership]

Not a list war. I was giving examples of American games for the PS3 the general public should recognize. I mean, God of War is probably just as well known as Gears of War, and Uncharted is becoming an extremely popular franchise. Microsoft secured it's install base early on with Gears 1/2, Halo 3, and Fable 2. I'm sure Oblivion helped as well. Ever since, PS3 has been playing catch up, and I do believe it has everything to do with advertising.

Those games just don't have as broad appeal. People who pay money for games/consoles now have wider tastes. God of War has a very narrow appeal, and it's a single player game. Gears of War has only 3 games compared to the console/handheld games for God of War and Gears still reached a far larger audience and had more sales. Multiplayer alone for gears gives it a community appeal and significance that single player games don't have.

Advertizing works, for sure, but word of mouth is 10x better. Show a bunch of people who won't buy games 5 mins of Happy Action Theater, and you'll have new xbox/kinect owners time.

 

[Basch]

In specific cases I might agree, but I typically bristle at this explanation; it's frequently cited as an excuse by fans of any particular product to explain why it's not selling well. If you do not want to admit the product has flaws and/or might not be palatable to many audiences, then the safest solution is to claim that the amazing, perfect awesomeness of the product simply isn't be communicated well through advertising.

This exculpates the product from any blame, and places all the blame on public perception. If people simply understood how awesome the game was, then it truly would be a hit! Again, this doesn't mean that this phenomenon has never happened in history, just that it's a frequent explanation to absolve any poorly performing company of blame.

This was basically the point I was trying to make. Quality doesn't translate to sales. That's why I don't understand why people here play sales like it's a football game. As gamers, we should be concerned by quality games under-performing. Not cheering on games we hate/don't like just because sales have exploded. That shouldn't matter to us. We should all want games like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus to sell even though they won't (at least those of us that liked the game). Why should I care Ubisoft made millions off Just Dance, when I don't like any of those games? If anything, we should only care about/promote good games or systems.

My original question was supposed to be rhetorical, but I should have figured as much from a sales-age thread. As far as gamers are concerned, there should be no reason.

 

[Petrae]

Not getting involved in your guys debate, but just wanted to clarify, your numbers about Call of Duty are WAY off....there are probably 11 million copies of MW 3 sold on the 360 alone....probably another 9-10 million copies on the ps3...

Those estimates are way overdone, especially on the PS3 side.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

As gamers, we should be concerned by quality games under-performing.

Sure, all quality games, not just exclusives you mention. As gamers, we should not be concerned whether a game is exclusive to one platform or not. And you know what? Most gamers aren't, that's why you don't see most of Sony's (or Microsoft's or even Nintendo's) games having a huge effect on hardware sales - in most cases there are just as good or better multiplatform releases.

Why should I care Ubisoft made millions off Just Dance, when I don't like any of those games? If anything, we should only care about/promote good games or systems.

"We" and "I" are two different things. "We" might have different tastes.