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[Masta_Killah]

Well, they can easily show what MS their competition charges for their HD prices, for one. Also, wifi is a selling point for people who buy laptops (a growing proportion of PC sales) so it is very easy for those people to understand and has the added effect of targeting consumers who are spending a similar amount of money on a computer or laptop.

Really, anything can become a selling point if a company just markets the shit out of it.

And this is why Sony is in 3rd place. Stop trying to market the PS3 as something else. If you want people to buy your system, show them games! Games! GAMES!

Watch a Nintendo ad and see what they are marketing. Same with a MS ad. Now watch a Sony ad. What is its intended target? Audiophiles? Gamers? Techies? Are they marketing games or BD? By the look of the PS3 box with its BD logo running across the box, it's really hard to tell and just confuses consumers and gives them mix signals.

And that whole thing about comparing a 360 to a PS3 was already done. They did that during the PS3's launch here in the US.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

QFMFT! I would have never bought games like Lost Planet, Orange Box, Condemned, and a shit load of other games if it wasn't for the XBL community. I regularly get text messages on Live asking if X game is good or not. I got one for Blue Dragon a few weeks ago and I recieved another one from a new 360 user and gaf member for Orange Box. I even have my mostly casual friends picking up games they would have never picked up because I was hyping the game up like there was no tomorrow. I even got one of my hardcore WoW friends to actually stop playing WoW, sell all his characters, and get a 360. He is now a hardcore (though he sucks ass) Halo and RS:V player and he can't wait to play CoD4. My other friend has expanded his taste in games. He no longer just plays Madden or FIFA and picks up games that we can play over Live.

I have seen the 360 turn people who were casual Ps2 players who played little more than Tiger woods and Fifa into full blown gamers this gen, buying games left right and center, its all because of the ease of online in my opinion, Gears of War was the hook

 

[JaY P.]

Things that bug me:

Bioshock vs. Metroid comparison you're switching up weekly vs. daily sales numbers. There's no way to compare how big the drop off for Bioshock was after it's first 4 days, but it very well could have been identical to Metroid if not worse. The fact is that Metroid sold more on a daily average than Bioshock did in September, but the comparison blurb makes it sound like Bioshock is doing significantly better.


People are buying multiple copies of Halo 3 to "collect" them? Really?


And this paragraph is a bit of a stretch given the data we have: "This may be simply a function of the type of buyer that Nintendo has courted: the casual gamer. Those buyers may ultimately only purchase 2 or 3 games per year and those games will predominantly be first-party titles, as they are the ones most heavily publicized and recognized by the average consumer. Should this prove to be true, the current trend toward expanding Wii development may prove problematic, as third parties fight for the one non-Nintendo title that each casual owner is willing to buy each year."

Firstly, there's not really much of a real "trend" toward expanding Wii development, and even if we were in fact seeing any results of that yet, perhaps it has more to do with the genres and the quality of the software than just the third party support in general. The biggest third party Wii games this month were Carnival Games and MySims. Convince me they would have sold better on the 360 - or even hit the top 20 for that matter.

Saying that supporting the Wii may prove to be problematic, when they haven't put any real support behind it to begin with is a very poor conclusion to make. Nintendo might in fact have a lock on minigames and such with WiiSports, WiiPlay and Mario Party. How about putting some real effort in to a genre that Nintendo doesn't dominate? RE4 and Red Steel are really the only big titles that I'd say fall in to that category, and both did relatively good.


Lastly - it would have been nice to touch on the Stranglehold bomb - since Midway was really expecting that to do well. Why did it fail?

QFT

This cannot be reiterated enough. People are unfairly measuring the success of third parties on rushed-shovel ware jobs. When third parties release quality titles for the Wii - and if those bomb- then we can conclude that the Wii is a poor choice for third parties. But for now, the only thing that's worth a lick third party wise seems to be Zack and Wiki. Hopefully Z&W along with SMG will be a wake up call to third parties that they can make quality, non-party, games.

 

[SPEA]

I have seen the 360 turn people who were casual Ps2 players who played little more than Tiger woods and Fifa into full blown gamers this gen, buying games left right and center, its all because of the ease of online in my opinion, Gears of War was the hook

My good friend was the same way. He only played Halo last gen. This gen he has already bought R6: Vegas, Lost Planet, Gears, Halo 3, and Skate. The 360 definitely has the ability to do that to some people.

 

[ccbfan]

QFT

This cannot be reiterated enough. People are unfairly measuring the success of third parties on rushed-shovel ware jobs. When third parties release quality titles for the Wii - and if those bomb- then we can conclude that the Wii is a poor choice for third parties. But for now, the only thing that's worth a lick third party wise seems to be Zack and Wiki. Hopefully Z&W along with SMG will be a wake up call to third parties that they can make quality, non-party, games.

Actually Zack and Wiki is probably going to cause third parties to run from the Wii. That game has all the signs of bombing which is unfortunate.

SMG selling well just reinforces the notion that nothing but Nintendo games sell on the Wii.

REUC is pretty much the earliest game that realistically has the ability to change this train of thought.

 

[MWS Natural]

My good friend was the same way. He only played Halo last gen. This gen he has already bought R6: Vegas, Lost Planet, Gears, Halo 3, and Skate. The 360 definitely has the ability to do that to some people.

I've seen this happen to several "Madden Only" friends of mine as well. 360 is like a drug, which is why people (myself included) are willing to put up with all the hardware issues because the software and online experience is so good. It's almost like those women on the talk shows who can't get out of their abusive relationships! lol

 

[Matt]

Actually Zack and Wiki is probably going to cause third parties to run from the Wii. That game has all the signs of bombing which is unfortunate.

How so? On any platform Zack and Wiki would probebly end up selling poorly. The game is a niche as niche gets.

 

[3rdman]

QFT

This cannot be reiterated enough. People are unfairly measuring the success of third parties on rushed-shovel ware jobs. When third parties release quality titles for the Wii - and if those bomb- then we can conclude that the Wii is a poor choice for third parties. But for now, the only thing that's worth a lick third party wise seems to be Zack and Wiki. Hopefully Z&W along with SMG will be a wake up call to third parties that they can make quality, non-party, games.

You have a point to be sure...but as I look back on the previous generation, when the shit games began to sell, it was proof that the console was reaching the masses. This is just my personal theory, mind you. But when crap like Tenchu ends up in the top ten, thats healthy. When the only thing that really moves on your system is 1st party titles or just the good ones...not so healthy.

 

[Jokeropia]

when the shit games began to sell, it was proof that the console was reaching the masses.

Red Steel sold +1 million.

 

[ksamedi]

I can't believe that people still debate third party sales on Nintendo consoles. Why in hell should third parties have a hard time selling games on Nintendo platforms? Do people really think that the 10 million + people that bought the Wii are crazy Nintendo fanboys who buy nothing but Nintendo products? Or make a general claim that Nintendo fans don't buy third party games? Its stupid to think that way really, the only thing that prevents third parties from selling software is A) lack of marketing, B) rush jobs, C) trying to do games that your not good at, D) Crappy developers.

I'd be pissed if my company could not compete with Nintendo on a sales front, I would fire people and make sure they get it right the next time, I would surely not accept defeat by Nintendo.

 

[beerbelly]

Nintendo has a very broad, differentiated strategy right now and it is obviously working for them. However, as much as some would like, they cannot have more than one clear strategy and expect to be just as successful. For example they cannot also have a niche, narrow strategy with the current broad/differentiated one they have. Many companies in the past have failed because they thought they could implement more than one strategy in a single business unit, which will take away some resources and may confuse the consumer. People will not go for the Wii if they want the traditional, hardcore games.

 

[Jokeropia]

However, as much as some would like, they cannot have more than one clear strategy and expect to be just as successful. For example they cannot also have a niche, narrow strategy with the current broad/differentiated one they have.

DS says you're wrong. (Home of both casual and traditional games.)

 

[Masta_Killah]

Red Steel sold +1 million.

Launch titles are excluded.

 

[ccbfan]

How so? On any platform Zack and Wiki would probebly end up selling poorly. The game is a niche as niche gets.

Thats my point. The game is set to fail, doesn't matter what system it is on.

 

[Jokeropia]

Launch titles are excluded.

So to have a healthy platform, crappy third-party non-launch games has to sell?

Ultimately the only thing that determines the health of a system is total software sales period.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I very much disagree with the concept of a large percentage of owners for the Wii that will forever only buy 2-3 games per year.

I don't disbelieve this. Only the most successful systems end up with tie ratios much beyond 10. Take away the hardcore set that buys a few dozen games, and most console owners buy very few per generation, let alone splitting it up into years.

 

[The Hermit]

At first i read 2-3 in the lifetime, but 2-3 a year (12-18 in lifetime)?! Hell that's pretty much how many game I have for both Snes and N64.
My gamecube backlog has about 8 games and I don't expect buying anything soon (except Jungle Beats this week... maybe)

 

[Fredescu]

DS says you're wrong. (Home of both casual and traditional games.)

And very occaisionally a healthy mixture of the two in say Phantom Hourglass. Watching my gamepad averse wife become addicted to a Zelda game is fantastic, and makes me wonder why we've had so few touchscreen controller action games so far. Canvas Curse, Yoshi's Touch n Go, and now Zelda PH. I can't think of any others, I wish there were more, and I hope there are a lot for the Wii.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Nintendo has a very broad, differentiated strategy right now and it is obviously working for them. However, as much as some would like, they cannot have more than one clear strategy and expect to be just as successful. For example they cannot also have a niche, narrow strategy with the current broad/differentiated one they have. Many companies in the past have failed because they thought they could implement more than one strategy in a single business unit, which will take away some resources and may confuse the consumer. People will not go for the Wii if they want the traditional, hardcore games.

If we're to go by Iwata's words, they're about to start going after the more seasoned gamer, now.

Which may have been part of the strategy all along?

 

[TheRipDizz]

If we're to go by Iwata's words, they're about to start going after the more seasoned gamer, now.

Which may have been part of the strategy all along?

Where are the games and more importantly, how are they going to make 3rd parties take the different route. In other words, talk is cheap.

 

[Link]

I'd say Prime 3, Galaxy, and Brawl are a pretty good showing.

 

[JaY P.]

Actually Zack and Wiki is probably going to cause third parties to run from the Wii. That game has all the signs of bombing which is unfortunate.

SMG selling well just reinforces the notion that nothing but Nintendo games sell on the Wii.

REUC is pretty much the earliest game that realistically has the ability to change this train of thought.

And how do we know this? From descriptions of the game, it seems to have both the hardcore and casual in mind. The point and click gameplay should be easy enough for the casual to come and pick up and the puzzles, according to IGN, will attract traditional gamers. Just my opinion, but this is the sweet spot devs should be aiming at for maximum exposure. Now if they can just work on the advertising...

As for SMG I think you did not understand my point (or I didn't explain it clearly). I feel that, given the polish of the title, SMG will set an example for devs that traditional games are possible with a little thought. This game should help third parties break away from the mini-game madness.

REUC: Well gun games are popular here in the states, so yes I agree.

You have a point to be sure...but as I look back on the previous generation, when the shit games began to sell, it was proof that the console was reaching the masses. This is just my personal theory, mind you. But when crap like Tenchu ends up in the top ten, thats healthy. When the only thing that really moves on your system is 1st party titles or just the good ones...not so healthy.

So very true! As a person working in retail it sickens me how the majority choose their games. Most look at the back with the touched up screens and base their choice on the graphics. Others buy games based off popular movies. And still others buy games because they are on clearance (and these games are on clearance for a reason). This is most apparent on the PS2 which has the most shovelware.

 

[Region-FreeWii]

i just realized i never posted in this thread.

 

[TheRipDizz]

I'd say Prime 3, Galaxy, and Brawl are a pretty good showing.

Brawl and Galaxy are universal games. They are made to sell toward everyone, noit just hardcore, so while they are great games I'd like to own

Spoiler

well Galaxy anyway

they aren't really saying much for his conviction. MP3 was one of the very few places where he could have proven something, unfortunatly they marketed it as well as a turd, treated it like a red headed stepchild and proved the rule rather than the exception. Talk is very cheap Iwata.

 

[GhettoGamer]