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NVIDIA RTX 50 Series silently removed 32-bit PhysX support
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Drama Hardware
yamaci17
Member
no you never needed legacy physx drivers for arkham city and arkham knight. only asylum required it
Hoddi
Member
Many of these games have been broken for much longer than this Blackwell release. I tried many of the games on that list 3-4 years ago and none of them ran well (or even worked in some cases) on my 2080 Ti.
I'm glad to see this gaining traction though.
RavenSan
Off-Site Inflammatory Member
The games will work -- it just uses CPU instead of GPU. The same way every AMD card does it, and has done it the entire time. This is just nVidia choosing not to continue to allocate resources on old tech. is it annoying? Sure. I'm not trying to give the impression I'm happy about this decision -- I'm just saying this isn't some massive betrayal.
And comparing DOS games to this feels insincere. A bicycle from 1900 would likely still be functional in the same capacity it always was -- whereas a Model T would not 'just work' given modern infrastructure.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Spiral1407
Member
It's been slowly happening across the entire industry. Qualcomm also killed 32-bit support with the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 and even chips that natively support 32-bit instructions may not work depending on how the OS was compiled. My new phone has an 8 Gen 2 and I still can't run the 32-bit apps that I could on the last one.
32-bit has been dead on iOS for years too.
Can't they just buy a low profile card like the 1650 and still get decent physx performance?
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Work on the GPU. Nvidia doesn't make CPU so in their end, it doesn't work anymore.
Except it is.
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RavenSan
Off-Site Inflammatory Member
So in your mind, companies like Nvidia should, forever, continue to allocate resources to deprecated, legacy systems? In what world does any company ever get held to that standard? If not forever, what's an acceptable timetable for them to say 'Hey, we're not gonna support this anymore'
Edit - and also, to your first point - AMD never supported this. So if someone went from nVidia to AMD, does that mean those games 'don't work' anymore? Of course it doens't. The games still work. A specific, only ever supported by one vendor option - doesn't work on that vendors new hardware. Old hardware is still viable. nVidia isn't removing the support from cards that already supported it. They're removing it from new hardware going forward.
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That's true. Oh great, now there's going to be shortages of 1650 cards. (Yeah, I don't know how plentiful those cards are actually are.)
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Yes. Even more because there is not technical reason to not do this. They are just being assholes.
It's not their tech. It's like complaining that they never supported CUDA too.
ShirAhava
Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
*plays Blur and UT3 all the time as they are both two of my fav games of all time*
*doesn't really care about AAA PC gaming after 2018*
RTX 5000 is dead to me! Glad I'm well stocked up on muti 16 and 20 series cards gonna have to stock up on 40 series next
*doesn't really care about AAA PC gaming after 2018*
RTX 5000 is dead to me! Glad I'm well stocked up on muti 16 and 20 series cards gonna have to stock up on 40 series next
Spiral1407
Member
It's been out since 2019 and is still the 4th most used GPU on steam despite being weaker than a 1060, so I doubt shortages are gonna be too big of an issue for that GPU. Hell, even I own one.
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nemiroff
Gold Member
The Nvidia website indicates that the legacy drivers run Physx on the CPU.
Edit: Wait, I'm learning as we speak here.. Using Gemini I see that there were both 32 bit legacy drivers for very old games that ran on the CPU side, and 32 bit GPU drivers. Asylum would be legacy, and City (f.ex) would be 32 bit GPU accelerated then. That's probably what tricked me up
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V1LÆM
Gold Member
Windows 11 is 64bit only as it requires minimum 4GB RAM.
Windows 10 when it gets killed off later this year will be the last 32bit but nobody should really be using the 32bit version.
RavenSan
Off-Site Inflammatory Member
Right -- well my first car had a tape deck and a CD player-- and now my new one doesn't have either! Is my car manufacturer also an asshole? My desktop doesn't have a floppy disk or CD/DVD drive. Are PC manufacturers assholes?
The answer to all of the above is of course not -- this whole drama is silly. No one's taking away your ability to play these games. They've removed a specific functionality that hasn't been used in new software 10+ years. Buying a 50 series is a choice. If having Phys-X is that important to you, don't make this choice. A 40 series card will likely be adequate for at least another 5-7 years. If nVidia had said 'hey we're nuking that functionality on all cards past present and future, lmao sucks to be you, get rekt nerd' -- then I would be right there with you on the outrage train. But this is just technology moving forward, as it always has.
Bojji
Member
Some people are really defending Nvidia on this? Wtf?? I don't care how, not my problem but Nvidia should offer an alternative to run those effects on 50X0 cards. Full list of games affected by this [here], some great title with great effects.
NVIDIA RTX50 series doesn't support GPU PhysX for 32-bit games
It appears that NVIDIA has removed GPU PhysX support for all 32-bit games in its latest RTX 50 series GPUs.www.dsogaming.com
Vs. hardware Physx
Game still has impressive effects:
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
You have the option and can easily add yourself CD/DVD drive in your car and PC. Can I easily add PhysX GPU support for my GPU??
Forward how??? We are losing performance plus there is no better tech than PhysX for the stuff it does!!!
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amigastar
Member
I love my 4070, the question is for how long until its too weak, i hope i can play GTA VI on good settings with it.
RavenSan
Off-Site Inflammatory Member
By buying, at my own cost, additional hardware, replacing or adding to the hardware that came by default, you mean? That's exactly the same thing as buying a separate GPU for Phys-X x32 support, if its that important to you.
It's not removing Phys-X entirely -- it's not allowing x32 Phys-x. Every major hardware/software developer has dropped, is currently in the process of dropping, or is going to drop x32 support eventually. Why not get mad / ask the developers of said games to retool the game so that it runs x64?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
No, that is the same as buying a separate second older car/PC to have CD/DVD player.
Because it is a Nvidia's problem, not the game dev problem.
Next they will drop DX11 and olders without any good reason and you will tell me it is ok to drop tech as "technology moves forward" and devs should update their games to DX12+.
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keefged4
Member
It'll be fine. Better than the PS5 Pro at least. Enough to last until the 60 series.
nkarafo
Member
What does that mean exactly for games?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Nothing as new games can and should use 64 bit PhysX.
RavenSan
Off-Site Inflammatory Member
I disagree - A GPU is not the entire PC. A GPU is a part of the PC. In my analogy, the car is the whole package, the media element is a part of the bigger whole.
At the end of the day, you're saying it's nVidia's problem that they decided they're not going to support a piece of software that became obsolete a decade ago.
...And yes, you're right, eventually DirectX11 will be discontinued and unsupported. Just like every version of DirectX before 9. Are you mad that DirectX 8 isn't supported anymore? DirectX 7? When that day comes, and DX11 gets sunset, it will be annoying, but I will understand, just like I understand it now.
amigastar
Member
Yep, i think the same, better than PS5 Pro and good until 60 series.
nkarafo
Member
No i mean what does dropping 32bit support entirely means for games?
nkarafo
Member
What do you mean? I can still play DX7 and DX8 games fine on my new PC with no missing features.
Pretty sure i can also play DX6 or lower games as well.
Yes? Games that need PhysX to display extra effects at decent performance still need it if you play them today.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The car is the entire product I am buying with all its features, like a VGA is. In your analogy, I could add an optional accessory on the VGA. I can't. I can only add the "accessory" to the motherboard (another product) and only if it has another free PCIe slot.
Every DX version is still supported on the VGAs to this day. I would be mad if they dropped any DX support without any good reason.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
That games using 32bit PhysX will only work on the CPU and because of that perform much worse.
Bojji
Member
It's all about hardware GPU Physx support in old games. Without it they run in single digit fps (on CPU).
So far Nividia was excellent with support for old hardware and software. I remember trying old games with physx on newer and newer GPUs and see performance differences, looks like 4xxx is the last series with support for it...
nkarafo
Member
But 32bit games (not PhysX) will still work?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Nvidia always try to break old video games how?? Afaik, this is the first time.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
This only affects PhysX.
nkarafo
Member
The other poster i replied to said "Every major hardware/software developer has dropped, is currently in the process of dropping, or is going to drop x32 support eventually". Obviously he means more than PhysX support.
If Nvidia or Microsoft did this, wouldn't such thing render more than half of PC games in existence unplayable?
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
If he means x32 games not working anymore on Geforces/Radeons and/or CPUs, will be a massive shit show from all directions for backward compatibility as we would need the same stuff that we need for 16bit games.
Puscifer
Member
5070ti was advertised to be as powerful as a 4090 and it has 16gb, selling my 4080 would've funded it. But seeing it's just fake frames I can just hold onto what I have since it's raster performance will be better
Bojji
Member
In real life (not Jensens dreams) 5070ti will be slower or on par with 4080. Yeah, DLSS FG frames are far cry from real performance.
simpatico
Member
Jays2Cents already broke NDA and said 5070Ti is basically a 4080. Pricing is outrageous on them. I doubt many people will have the opportunity to buy one for less than $1k anytime soon. Not sure if the memory bus is going to come into play. 16GB isn’t future proof unless you plan on playing at 1080p
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Buggy Loop
Member
Future is neural textures anyway
Whole RDNA 4 lineup is 16GB. Surely AMD will not tell its users its a 1080p card.
Bojji
Member
Future is neural textures anyway
Whole RDNA 4 lineup is 16GB. Surely AMD will not tell its users its a 1080p card.
16GB will be fine until PS6 arrives with 24GB/32GB of memory that can potentially be used as VRAM. But long cross gen will keep it safe anyway - just not with the highest textures.
That is without any neural rendering, neural textures could become big in the future (or not...).
Negotiator
Member
I guess it's the last time I'm buying nVidia (Ada Lovelace).
Not even Intel dares to remove 32-bit support.
Backwards compatibility is a huge selling point for PCs.
Not even Intel dares to remove 32-bit support.
Backwards compatibility is a huge selling point for PCs.
dgrdsv
Member
Generally speaking it is a game dev problem.
You can't expect the platform to always provide support for all s/w which was written for every prior version of it.
There are no way of launching many old PC apps on the current Windows version in any way but through emulation - which is usually provided and maintained by community not the OS/hardware vendors or the original company.
MS is dropping the last 32 bit Windows support which is why no h/w vendor will be providing drivers for this platform anymore.
This will inevitably happen at some point. Modern Windows do not provide native support for any API older than DX9.
Yes, this is normal. No, there is no way of avoiding that if you still want to have progress happening.
Only if you will be enabling or capable of enabling the GPU PhysX option in them - which you probably shouldn't be doing in absence of GPU acceleration.
Otherwise the games will play just like they've always did on non-Nvidia h/w for example.
IIRC Intel hasn't been providing 32 bit drivers for their GPUs since 2021.
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Negotiator
Member
Negotiator
Member
IIRC, it's not just single-threaded, but also x87 codepath (yeah, not even SSE, let alone AVX):
Completely unacceptable and it paints PC gaming in a bad light.
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