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[Karma Kramer]

I asked why, not what. What does the military have to do with the "theme" (if there even is one) to these protests?

This latching onto a half dozen former marines is as pathetic as "look, we have a black guy at this tea party rally". It's a half assed attempt to derive legitimacy through symbolism with no real meaning, by attempting to coopt a symbol of the "opposite". Kind of sad that even those who are excited about it have no idea what it means.

This movement is about the 99%, the more diversity in general, the better. Its pretty obvious and many critics of this protest in the media seem to focus on the attire and age of the protestors as a way to discredit them as "lazy hippies."

 

[elrechazado]

At this point, I would encourage you guys to avoid feeding the trolls or even acknowledging them. I would also avoid any rigorous exchange or argument that focusing on small and inconsequential details, as it simply detracts from the overall focus and dynamic of the thread. I certainly don't want to see a repeat of the last Occupy thread. Let the haters hate, and keep moving.

Why are my questions insignificant? It was worth multiple posts in this and the other thread by protest enthusiasts that some people in military uniforms might show up at the protest, but it's not significant to discuss why this is relevant at all?

Or are you just doing a "hater gonna hate" response? Don't bring up "small and inconsequential details" then whine when they get discussed.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Occupy Wall Street protest: NYPD accused of heavy-handed tactics
Force criticised by protesters, who claim they were deliberately led on to road before being penned in and arrested

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

At this point, I would encourage you guys to avoid feeding the trolls or even acknowledging them. I would also avoid any rigorous exchange or argument that focuses on small and inconsequential details, as it simply detracts from the overall focus and dynamic of the thread. I certainly don't want to see a repeat of the last Occupy thread. Let the haters hate, and keep moving.

you're right, it just grindsmygears.jpg

i've been through all this personally, i think we all have, so to have people shit on those who are finally doing something is just a fuck you to our families, our neighborhoods, our cities, the country. "lol u lost ur house lol lost jobs huh huh in poverty now huh go wash ur che t shirt lol"

 

[Bloodbeard]

Why are my questions insignificant? It was worth multiple posts in this and the other thread by protest enthusiasts that some people in military uniforms might show up at the protest, but it's not significant to discuss why this is relevant at all?

Or are you just doing a "hater gonna hate" response? Don't bring up "small and inconsequential details" then whine when they get discussed.

It's not that they are insignificant, it's that they have been answered.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Why are my questions insignificant? It was worth multiple posts in this and the other thread by protest enthusiasts that some people in military uniforms might show up at the protest, but it's not significant to discuss why this is relevant at all?

Or are you just doing a "hater gonna hate" response? Don't bring up "small and inconsequential details" then whine when they get discussed.

I actually think your last question has some merit, and I think he was talking about a few other posters instead. At least that was my reading of it, I could be totally wrong.

 

[elrechazado]

It's not that they are insignificant, it's that they have been answered.

Where? Surely you don't mean the "cuz they aren't hippies" responses, right?

 

[magicstop]

Occupy Wall Street protest: NYPD accused of heavy-handed tactics
Force criticised by protesters, who claim they were deliberately led on to road before being penned in and arrested

Great link, thank you! Good to see a full spectrum of interpretations about the event. Also nice to see Salman Rushdie speaking up! I hope he puts out an official statement supporting the movement.

 

[MC Safety]

I'm sympathetic, but I am unsure as to what the protestors want and how they think disrupting traffic and blocking off portions of Wall Street will accomplish their goals.

It seems the apex of silliness to protest without a clearly defined set of goals.

 

[Haly]

I was incredulous about Occupy Wall Street itself (and I still am), but I'm pleasantly surprised to see it gain momentum cross country.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I'm sympathetic, but I am unsure as to what the protestors want and how they think disrupting traffic and blocking off portions of Wall Street will accomplish their goals.

It seems the apex of silliness to protest without a clearly defined set of goals.

let me use this from the great article linked above;

Dismissing these incipient protests because they lack fully developed, sophisticated professionalization is akin to pronouncing a three-year-old child worthless because he can’t read Schopenhauer: those who are actually interested in helping it develop will work toward improving those deficiencies, not harp on them in order to belittle its worth.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Where? Surely you don't mean the "cuz they aren't hippies" responses, right?

It's about symbolism. Not because we need to justify the purpose of the protest because of insecurities or something (tea party and black people) but because it would prevent broad generalizations from the media that all the protestors are hippies.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I'm sympathetic, but I am unsure as to what the protestors want and how they think disrupting traffic and blocking off portions of Wall Street will accomplish their goals.

It seems the apex of silliness to protest without a clearly defined set of goals.

The protest is in a better position now than it was a couple weeks ago, give it time.

 

[magicstop]

It would appear that the LiveStream Global Revolution is stating that several lawyers and journalists were arrested on the bridge . . . I'm looking forward to a proper review of who got arrested and how the charges are being prosecuted as time goes by and gives us some reflection. I'm also interested in how the demographic of this movement is really evolving and expanding. Check the Who are they? section of the OP for a continually updated list of who is involved. The list thus far is impressive and growing. Well over a million supporters from unions alone.

 

[elrechazado]

let me use this from the great article linked above;

How would someone decide whether to join if they are unclear as to any coherent message? This protest seems to be nothing but sound and fury. The arab spring protests, the original anti war protests against the iraq wars, the tea party movement, those had a message. One could decide that they agreed with the impetus behind them, whether you agreed or disagreed.

These protests seem to be at this point about nothing more than being in the street for no articulable reason, other than "what are you rebelling again? Whattaya got?"

And let me say that your quote is absolute garbage.

You want to protest without letting people know what you want? Or believing there's any way to accomplish your unstated goals?

Congratulations. You're an aimless mob.

yep

It's about symbolism. Not because we need to justify the purpose of the protest because of insecurities or something (tea party and black people) but because it would prevent broad generalizations from the media that all the protestors are hippies.

It is about symbolism apparently, which is exactly why my tea party black people analogy is spot on. It's an insecurity that you're all hippy drum circle bangers. The only responses to my question have been uniformly "So we don't all look like hippies". What is that, if not insecurity about looking like hippies? Because you've all admitted there is nothing coherent or even symbolic about wanting the military there, beyond projecting a message of non hippiness.

 

[MC Safety]

let me use this from the great article linked above;

And let me say that your quote is absolute garbage.

You want to protest without letting people know what you want? Or believing there's any way to accomplish your unstated goals?

Congratulations. You're an aimless mob.

 

[Karma Kramer]

How would someone decide whether to join if they are unclear as to any coherent message? This protest seems to be nothing but sound and fury. The arab spring protests, the original anti war protests against the iraq wars, the tea party movement, those had a message. One could decide that they agreed with the impetus behind them, whether you agreed or disagreed.

These protests seem to be at this point about nothing more than being in the street for no articulable reason, other than "what are you rebelling again? Whattaya got?"

What are you talking about? It's called OccupyWallStreet... there are a broad range of issues, but it should be fairly simple to understand the general distaste of our current economic climate and how corruption on WallStreet was a factor in causing it.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

And let me say that your quote is absolute garbage.

You want to protest without letting people know what you want? Or believing there's any way to accomplish your unstated goals?

Congratulations. You're an aimless mob.

Go on, add the "smelly" qualifier. You know you want to.

 

[elrechazado]

What are you talking about? It's called OccupyWallStreet... there are a broad range of issues, but it should be fairly simple to understand the general distaste of our current economic climate and how corruption on WallStreet was a factor in causing it.

I'm talking about what I quoted, which should be clear if you'd read it in context.

Go on, add the "smelly" qualifier. You know you want to.

stop projecting

 

[Bloodbeard]

And let me say that your quote is absolute garbage.

You want to protest without letting people know what you want? Or believing there's any way to accomplish your unstated goals?

Congratulations. You're an aimless mob.

Maybe you haven't seen these, but...

https://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/
https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

 

[MC Safety]

Go on, add the "smelly" qualifier. You know you want to.

It's the sort of well-meaning, high-minded garbage whose odor you can safely navigate without incident.

 

[Shurs]

Without Manos, this thread is no fun.

 

[Karma Kramer]

It is about symbolism apparently, which is exactly why my tea party black people analogy is spot on. It's an insecurity that you're all hippy drum circle bangers. The only responses to my question have been uniformly "So we don't all look like hippies". What is that, if not insecurity about looking like hippies? Because you've all admitted there is nothing coherent or even symbolic about wanting the military there, beyond projecting a message of non hippiness.

What?????? You just said one thing and then the opposite.

The message is "we are the 99%." The fact that more support for the movement is growing and from many diverse groups, not just younger people... is good news. The message and idea behind the movement is sound and you can tell by the passion of the protestors and people posting on GAF. We are simply happy to see more momentum.

 

[elrechazado]

What?????? You just said one thing and then the opposite.

The message is "we are the 99%." The fact that more support for the movement is growing and from many diverse groups, not just younger people... is good news. The message and idea behind the movement is sound and you can tell by the passion of the protestors and people posting on GAF. We are simply happy to see more momentum.

You need to read that again maybe.

Support for what movement, passion for what? "The message is sound". Momentum towards what? Are these protestors in favor of a specific legislative action? A specific reform? You are apparently working with givens in this equation that haven't been shared with the rest of us, but you keep talking about them as if they are truly given. What are they? Maybe if you fill in these blanks I might know if I support this effort too.

 

[cooljeanius]

Without Manos, this thread is no fun.

Elrechezao seems to be taking over for him.

 

[elrechazado]

Elrechezao seems to be taking over for him.

I found the other thread amusing, but I have kept on topic in this thread and engaged in productive conversation. Do you think I'm trolling because I'm not heaping praise on the protest and or repeating conspiracy theories or bemoaning the capitalist pigs and banksters?

 

[magicstop]

Guys, these attacks are addressed in the OP. Not much point of defending them here, as we're not actually going to change elrechazao's mind or get anyone to concede the point. It's a waste of time, energy, and space. Let these guys be, or we'll have 20 pages of arguing whether or not there is a goal or point to this movement, which there obviously is. Arguing the obvious is no good, lol.

Shifting direction, is anyone going to an event today? I've got one at 2pm (coming up shortly) and one at 7pm. I'll try to take some pictures and let you guys know what we come up with. If any of you guys participate, I'd love it if you'd do the same! There are some of us hungry for news and happenings around the country.

I may be able to, if anyone is interested, get a section of the OP going for Occupy-GAF users who are involved in specific movements . . .

 

[Dartastic]

I recommend everyone so "condescending, dismissive and scornful" in this thread to read this insightful article.

Great article. Quoting again for a new page.

The initial article confirms protesters were led onto the bridge by the police, twenty minutes later the article is 'updated' by Al Baker.

Who is this Al Baker?

Al Baker, police bureau chief for The New York Times — and the son of a police lieutenant — brings you inside the nation’s largest police force every Thursday. Mr. Baker can be reached at [email protected]. - source

oh okay then

Yeah. I posted that on the first page. It is obvious at this point that the protestors were led onto the bridge. Disgusting.

 

[kame-sennin]

BBC coverage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15143509

So how's this thread going?

It's a lot better then the last one. Most of the people arguing are actually debating the issues and not just taking a shit on the thread. Just remember, don't feed the trolls. They only keep posting if people reply to their baiting remarks.

 

[magicstop]

BBC coverage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15143509



It's a lot better then the last one. Most of the people arguing are actually debating the issues and not just taking a shit on the thread. Just remember, don't feed the trolls. They only keep posting if people reply to their baiting remarks.

Thanks, I'm going to add this to the OP. I think international coverage could be good for this, as we all know local coverage has the tendency to get skewed in one direction or another.

 

[Karma Kramer]

You need to read that again maybe.

Support for what movement, passion for what? "The message is sound". Momentum towards what? Are these protestors in favor of a specific legislative action? A specific reform? You are apparently working with givens in this equation that haven't been shared with the rest of us, but you keep talking about them as if they are truly given. What are they? Maybe if you fill in these blanks I might know if I support this effort too.

I said it is about symbolism, because the movement is about the 99%... and the more diversity within the movement the more likely the movement will continue to resonate. Unlike the situation with the tea party, where they accused Obama of not being American, despite no valid evidence...

All you have to do is look at the shape our economy is in, especially for younger people right now and it should be obvious what the message is. No more economic instability because of corrupt practices on Wall Street and in our government. Accountability for the crimes committed. Are you a supporter of justice?

 

[Bloodbeard]

Guys, these attacks are addressed in the OP. Not much point of defending them here, as we're not actually going to change elrechazao's mind or get anyone to concede the point. It's a waste of time, energy, and space. Let these guys be, or we'll have 20 pages of arguing whether or not there is a goal or point to this movement, which there obviously is. Arguing the obvious is no good, lol.

Shifting direction, is anyone going to an event today? I've got one at 2pm (coming up shortly) and one at 7pm. I'll try to take some pictures and let you guys know what we come up with. If any of you guys participate, I'd love it if you'd do the same! There are some of us hungry for news and happenings around the country.

I may be able to, if anyone is interested, get a section of the OP going for Occupy-GAF users who are involved in specific movements . . .

I agree.

The nearest occupation is 350 miles away from me and I spent too much money on tuition to not attend class regularly, so I will not be physically joining the movement (until semester end), but I will be doing what I can on the internet to support.


@karma kramer - You've made your point well, but at this point you'll only be feeding trolls.

 

[magicstop]

I agree.

The nearest occupation is 350 miles away from me and I spent too much money on tuition to not attend class regularly, so I will not be physically joining the movement (until semester end), but I will be doing what I can on the internet to support.

That's awesome, mate. Any support, be it verbal, physical, etc., is great.

 

[elrechazado]

I said it is about symbolism, because the movement is about the 99%... and the more diversity within the movement the more likely the movement will continue to resonate. Unlike the situation with the tea party, where they accused Obama of not being American, despite no valid evidence...

All you have to do is look at the shape our economy is in, especially for younger people right now and it should be obvious what the message is. No more economic instability because of corrupt practices on Wall Street and in our government. Accountability for the crimes committed. Are you a supporter of justice?

Which people specifically need to go to jail, for violations of which crimes? Which bill or reform are you in support of that would solve this problem in the future? Those are questions I could actually answer, rather than juvenile nonsense like "the banksters need to go to jail", and "do you support justice?" Talk about non sequiturs.

 

[Bloodbeard]

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

PROPOSED LIST OF DEMANDS (please help edit/add so this can be submitted for consideration to those maintaining the official list)
Posted 3 days ago by GandhiKingMindset

(Please click on this link if you haven't yet read the introduction called "OUR TURN": https://occupywallst.org/forum/our-turn/ . Feel free to share this link with anyone you like).

TACTICS FOR "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"

We should make the demands below very publicly at a press conference a few days after arriving in DC. When doing so, we should give a clear deadline of 3 days for a firm written commitment with signatures from at least 60% of members of House and 60% of the members of the Senate to pass these bills by the end of the year. If this commitment on the full slate of demands is not met by midnight on the 3rd day (which it won't be) we should be prepared to non-violently block access to all or part of the Capitol complex the next morning by traditional proven non-violent tactics. The purpose is to bring the leaders of the House and Senate to the negotiating table.

NOTE: There are always entrances because there is always a point where people who work there have to leave the public street and enter secure space. We should focus our non-violent direct action and civil disobedience on those entrances no matter where they move them because these are, by definition, always accessible.

LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"

CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act#Repeal .
USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.

NOTE 1: This is from Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "Letter from the Birmingham Jail":

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."

Here's the entire "Letter from the Birmingham Jail": http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html . It's a treasure and is as timely as ever.

NOTE 2: Here's a short video from BBC to inspire you. It gets pretty extraordinary about halfway through: http://youtu.be/lqN3amj6AcE

NOTE 3: If you haven't seen these 3 award winning documentaries -- INSIDE JOB, THE CORPORATION, and WHY WE FIGHT -- I highly recommend them.

NOTE 4: There needs to be a very well researched and concise addendum that contains a list of the top 50 corporate crimes / harmful actions during the past 15 years. This ought to really blow people away and will help increase support both on the ground in DC and in living rooms across America as the story unfolds. We can't assume everyone knows why these demands are necessary. We must demonstrate.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Which people specifically need to go to jail, for violations of which crimes? Which bill or reform are you in support of that would solve this problem in the future? Those are questions I could actually answer, rather than juvenile nonsense like "the banksters need to go to jail", and "do you support justice?" Talk about non sequiturs.

Which people? Well first of all no one should go to jail without a fair trial, so I can't answer that... but apparently you are all knowing and can. So please, go on and answer those questions.

I was responding to your question... because I thought you didn't understand the simple concept "momentum towards transparency and accountability." I generally thought you didn't grasp this basic theme. My fault for playing along with your games and answering your questions (ones you already apparently know the answers to).

 

[milkyjay20]

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

there goes another rug

 

[MC Safety]

https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

I was sympathetic, but the demands read like a second grader's Christmas list. And that the organizers are seeking additions and edits to the list of demands shows the protestors aren't really sure what they want.

I get the anger. But I'd be embarrassed to participate in this.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I was sympathetic, but the demands read like a second grader's Christmas list. And that the organizers are seeking additions and edits to the list of demands shows the protestors aren't really sure what they want.

I get the anger. But I'd be embarrassed to participate in this.

Yeah how terrible... isn't democracy retarded!

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I was sympathetic, but the demands read like a second grader's Christmas list. And that the organizers are seeking additions and edits to the list of demands shows the protestors aren't really sure what they want.

I get the anger. But I'd be embarrassed to participate in this.

Democracy is frightfully embarrassing.

 

[Bloodbeard]

@MC Safety

This is an open document. By all means, e-mail the NYCGA with your changes/suggestions. Or comment in the allotted section. Or post your ideas here.

"This is what democracy looks like"

 

[magicstop]

OP updated to not only link to the proposed demands (still a work in progress), but to display them as well. It's nice to see concise and specific demands being made that address a lot of the injustices and problems that we've been seeing for awhile.

I'm off to my first event! I'll post news once I've returned or from the event.

 

[cooljeanius]

Anyway, I'm off to Occupy McPherson Square! Be back later.

 

[elrechazado]

Which people? Well first of all no one should go to jail without a fair trial, so I can't answer that... but apparently you are all knowing and can. So please, go on and answer those questions.

I was responding to your question... because I thought you didn't understand the simple concept "momentum towards transparency and accountability." I generally thought you didn't grasp this basic theme. My fault for playing along with your games and answering your questions (ones you already apparently know the answers to).

Wait, you posit that people need to jail. I ask who, and then I'm the know it all? What the fuck kind of logic is this?

 

[milkyjay20]

I was sympathetic, but the demands read like a second grader's Christmas list.

how so?

glass-steagall brought back
better regulation
limited campaign funds from corporations
security and exchange commission revamped
lobbyist reform
no more working for the government and then working for the companies that you're supposed to watchdog

sounds pretty good to me. i only have a problem with the "corporate personhood" section, and the insistence on taxing the rich more, as that would probably harm the upper middle class more than the super rich.

 

[kame-sennin]

This movement is about the 99%, the more diversity in general, the better. Its pretty obvious and many critics of this protest in the media seem to focus on the attire and age of the protestors as a way to discredit them as "lazy hippies."

Let's also remember that the "lazy hippies" meme is media spin in and of itself. In the 1960's, hippies were not laughed at or considered unserious. The mainstream establishment was terrified of the anti-war movement and concerned that it could upend their entire power structure. That's why they responded with such hostility and violence. And no one doubted the effectiveness of protesting. To this day, many conservatives blame the anti-war movement for forcing us to withdraw from Vietnam. In fact, it was the very effectiveness of that movement that caused conservatives in the government and media to cast hippies as lazy and ineffective. For the last 40 years, conservatives have tried to convince Americans that protesting doesn't work and that anybody who does protest is a leach on society. They pushed this propaganda precisely because they know how effective and dangerous protesting really is, and they need to spread apathy and cynicism to keep the power of the people in check. We see the effectiveness of this tactic today. When this protest was first announced, people on gaf (mostly young people) mocked it, stating that dirty hippies wouldn't accomplish anything. Fortunately, as the protests have grown, people are starting to understand the difference between spin and reality. We can also thank those who stood up in the Arab world and in Europe for reminding us of our own strength.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Wait, you posit that people need to jail. I ask who, and then I'm the know it all? What the fuck kind of logic is this?

Which people specifically need to go to jail, for violations of which crimes? Which bill or reform are you in support of that would solve this problem in the future? Those are questions I could actually answer

Forgive me if I misunderstood this. When you said "those are questions I could actually answer," I assumed you meant, you already knew the answers to those questions. I am on absolutely zero sleep...

I didn't say people need to go to jail. I said there needs to be accountability, which entails an actual investigation. There was no investigation, only a bailout. From what I understand of the financial crisis banks were lending risky loans and gambling on them to make profits, which caused the housing bubble. Who exactly is responsible, I will have to get back to you on that... maybe someone else can answer.

Frankly I don't enjoy talking to someone with such an inconsiderate tone.

 

[kame-sennin]

I didn't say people need to go to jail. I said there needs to be accountability, which entails an actual investigation. There was no investigation, only a bailout. From what I understand of the financial crisis banks were lending risky loans and gambling on them to make profits, which caused the housing bubble. Who exactly is responsible, I will have to get back to you on that... maybe someone else can answer.

Required reading:

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

I was sympathetic, but the demands read like a second grader's Christmas list. And that the organizers are seeking additions and edits to the list of demands shows the protestors aren't really sure what they want.

I get the anger. But I'd be embarrassed to participate in this.

These are precisely the types of posts that can not be taken seriously by reasonable people. The above is not a troll post in the slightest, he is stating his opinions in a polite and clear fashion. But it is the height of absurdity to criticize a political movement for not having goals, and then, when said goals are produced, criticize an ambitious and democratic movement for having goals that are too ambitious and subject to a democratic process.

Again, this video seems to show the protestors only moving on the walkway, then the police starting a new path on the main road. Why the protestors followed them I don't really know, perhaps they felt it was getting too congested on the walkway and the police were giving the 'ok" to move across the bridge that way as well. I'm unclear as to why they were using the bridge at all though. So its hard to be conclusive here. Why the cops didn't create a barricade between the mass of protestors and the road... why they started to march up the street... it seems illogical.

Insane. The police were clearly leading the protesters onto the bridge to coral and arrest them. Where's the admiral Ackbar gif?

 

[Saren is Bad]

Yooo, educate me Occupy Wallstreeters. I'm seeing pictures of being having signs like "End the Rich" and all this. Does this movement seriously want to make it where there are no rich people? Or was that just a more extreme sign. Trying to get an accurate picture of what this movement is exactly advocating.

 

[empty vessel]

I didn't say people need to go to jail. I said there needs to be accountability, which entails an actual investigation. There was no investigation, only a bailout. From what I understand of the financial crisis banks were lending risky loans and gambling on them to make profits, which caused the housing bubble. Who exactly is responsible, I will have to get back to you on that... maybe someone else can answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Cassano

Is a good place to start. But Wall Street was rife with fraud. An objective investigation would likely result in charges brought against almost all executives of major corporations in the financial industry.