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[rubik's dude]

It's her IP and her character and she can do whatever she wants with her moving forward, but that doesn't change the original canon. It's as if years after publishing his books Tolkien was like "Actually Frodo is an 8 feet tall latino lesbian", to me that doesn't magically erase the established canon.

I agree, I really don't understand the casting choice at all. There are plenty of other actors they could've found that would've fit the part better, and it feels like they have an ulterior motive.

JK Rowling's habit of retconning Harry Potter throughout the years has done nothing but tarnish its legacy.

 

[Hookshot]

It's as if years after publishing his books Tolkien was like "Actually Frodo is an 8 feet tall latino lesbian"

Would be hot when they met Galadriel

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I agree, I really don't understand the casting choice at all. There are plenty of other actors they could've found that would've fit the part better, and it feels like they have an ulterior motive.

JK Rowling's habit of retconning Harry Potter throughout the years has done nothing but tarnish its legacy.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

"Her white face" doesn't tell me her skin color. I'm not white and my face has been described as sheet white before. It's an expression to describe shock and fear.

Like JK Rowling said, the books never said anything about Hermione's skin color, and authorial intent is the only thing that's canon.

How would you get around her being described as a panda then when she got a black eye? Is that something you've heard as a poc?

 

[jason10mm]

Right, I agree. They let talent and experience trump adherence to the character's description in the book, and it worked out well for Rickman. So why not give Paapa the same chance? He's a good actor and deserves the same as Rickman.

It's not like I'm petitioning to cancel the show. Who knows, maybe Snape isn't even that relevant anymore, they want to change up the characters. Doubt anyone is gonna have issue with Horace Slughorn, Pamona Sprout, or Alecto Carrow being cast differntly than the book/films, such as it is.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

It's not like I'm petitioning to cancel the show. Who knows, maybe Snape isn't even that relevant anymore, they want to change up the characters. Doubt anyone is gonna have issue with Horace Slughorn, Pamona Sprout, or Alecto Carrow being cast differntly than the book/films, such as it is.

I would have an issue..

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Also also. She's described blushing at several points in the books. Again not something you'd normally be able to tell on a black person. I guess some people need it to be more like snow white and explicitly stated. They race swapped that too of course! Lmao.

Besides all that anyone who isn't white in the books is made quite clear is it not?

 

[rubik's dude]

It's not like I'm petitioning to cancel the show. Who knows, maybe Snape isn't even that relevant anymore, they want to change up the characters. Doubt anyone is gonna have issue with Horace Slughorn, Pamona Sprout, or Alecto Carrow being cast differntly than the book/films, such as it is.

Right, but I mean, if they're going to change up the characters, I don't understand why they have to do it with ones who were already established on all the book covers and art as looking a certain way, you know?

It just seems like a huge misstep so early on.

 

[GymWolf]

Dunno what you're talking about. Somebody already suggested a white Blade and Miles Morales:


See any accusations of racism? Now on the other hand, look what happens when you cast a black actor as Snape:




A bunch of weirdo adults obsessed with a series of kids books start spewing hate because the actor doesn't fit their headcanon. Also:

JK Rowling herself picked the actress to play Hermione in Cursed Child, so whatever officially sanctioned art you think is canon, actually isn't. This is canon:

 

[rubik's dude]

Also also. She's described blushing at several points in the books. Again not something you'd normally be able to tell on a black person. I guess some people need it to be more like snow white and explicitly stated. They race swapped that too of course! Lmao.

Besides all that anyone who isn't white in the books is made quite clear is it not?

Right? It's crazy the way she's retroactively retconning stuff. I guess money talks. This'll just be another Rings of Power situation, a soulless cash-grab. At least we'll always have the movies and books, until she pulls a George Lucas and burns all the original copies and all we're left with is her "enhanced" version.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Right? It's crazy the way she's retroactively retconning stuff. I guess money talks. This'll just be another Rings of Power situation, a soulless cash-grab. At least we'll always have the movies and books, until she pulls a George Lucas and burns all the original copies and all we're left with is her "enhanced" version.

Enhanced Version of the OG Star Wars Trilogy is my favorite version

 

[rubik's dude]

Enhanced Version of the OG Star Wars Trilogy is my favorite version

Mine too!

 

[0neAnd0nly]

I am so confused by the last 2 pages I don't even know what to say.

God bless GAF.

 

[CGNoire]

I am so confused by the last 2 pages I don't even know what to say.

God bless GAF.

Yeah its like his account was highjacked or someone hit a switch at CERN.

 

[Trilobit]

Also also. She's described blushing at several points in the books. Again not something you'd normally be able to tell on a black person. I guess some people need it to be more like snow white and explicitly stated. They race swapped that too of course! Lmao.

Besides all that anyone who isn't white in the books is made quite clear is it not?

I don't think that would help.

Story: "Her skin was as white as snow"
Modern reader: "No you see, it was just that she was a hispanic caught in a snow storm as a kid and survived so she got that nickname."

Story: "Her white caucasian skin looked like a white person's skin because she was a white caucasian"
Modern reader: "No, but you see, it was gas from Venus that reflected itself on a weather balloon so it gave her Kenyan black skin the illusion of whiteness."

 

[Sony]

While I'm against race and gender swaps, I'm kinda nodding in agreement with this one. This way, he can be more of his own character and being compared less to Rickman. Whoever would play the role would have big shoes to fill regardless, and this makes that a bit easier.

 

[John Bilbo]

He tarnished his own legacy.

 

[Panajev2001a]

How would you get around her being described as a panda then when she got a black eye? Is that something you've heard as a poc?

This is when I really do not think we are talking with someone that is actually interested in a discussion over making a point / taking a stand and warping reality instead of changing their mind. The book could say the ethnicity of the character, of her parents, her great great parents, could explicitly say the color of the skin in detail, could say everything as explicit as possible and the answer you would get is the same.

In this scenario the most plausible way to explain it could be trying to distance it from Alan Rickman, but pretending the book is not clear seems like making stuff up.

As long as the show is good it will all disappear, the problem is that most of the most progressive shows that then inevitably pick a fight with their audience are generally trash (see GhostBusters 2016, Rings of Power, The Last Jedi, etc…).

 

[GateofD]

Might as well cast Simu Liu as James, might actually watch it if they do

 

[Rockondevil]

Hate this casting sooo much. Many of the characters could easily be replaced with a black man or woman but Snape isn't it.
This dude ain't pulling of the slimy, greasy look that Snape should have.

He could've been plenty of other great characters but why on earth would that happen.

This is just the start and if more happens like this (Weasleys not red heads or the Malfoys not pale blondes) I'm not sure I'll be watching it.

 

[GymWolf]

As someone who is non white, I always found it funny how I'm suppose to care if I get fully represented in a movie or show. For me story is all that matters to me. Representation always comes off as forced to me and as a result the movie/show suffer for it.



I love all those movies too

If representation was so important, 95% of the planet would be on suicide watch because just a couple of races get constantly represented in international media.


And no, an american white man doesn't represent my sicilian ass, italo-american mob bosses with fake italian accents are not representing me one fucking bit.

People obsessed with this shit have no real problems in life or they need to take a long look at the mirror.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

good thing he's an actor then

 

[Hookshot]

Leaked footage of Snape getting his Death Eater robes.

 

[rubik's dude]

While I'm against race and gender swaps, I'm kinda nodding in agreement with this one. This way, he can be more of his own character and being compared less to Rickman. Whoever would play the role would have big shoes to fill regardless, and this makes that a bit easier.

Uh it fundamentally changes Snape's dynamic in the story. Now there will be an undercurrent of race when:

1. James bullies Snape for being poor and ugly.
2. Lily picks James over Snape.
3. Harry doesn't trust Snape.

He's essentially an entirely different character at this point. If they wanted an actor to breathe new life into the role without being compared to Rickman, pick Pete Davidson or some shit. He's gaunt and pale and young enough still.

 

[Saber]

Uh it fundamentally changes Snape's dynamic in the story. Now there will be an undercurrent of race when:

1. James bullies Snape for being poor and ugly.
2. Lily picks James over Snape.
3. Harry doesn't trust Snape.

He's essentially an entirely different character at this point. If they wanted an actor to breathe new life into the role without being compared to Rickman, pick Pete Davidson or some shit. He's gaunt and pale and young enough still.

You can add the fact with the obssession with Snape with Dark arts, being a Death Eater, etc.
Really, we can really distinguish people who never had interest in Harry Potter or didn't read or watch anything related. And this has nothing to do with the actor himself, but Snape is an already defined character. It's descritpion is in the books, theres no amount of circunventing that gonna change that.
The only thing I'm waiting for is how all those tragic events that were part of Snape life (and define who he is) gonna play out in this. I'm willing to guess it's gonna be all omited.

 

[rubik's dude]

Really, we can really distinguish people who never had interest in Harry Potter or didn't read or watch anything related.

Like unironically the casting director lmao.

 

[jason10mm]

You can add the fact with the obssession with Snape with Dark arts, being a Death Eater, etc.
Really, we can really distinguish people who never had interest in Harry Potter or didn't read or watch anything related. And this has nothing to do with the actor himself, but Snape is an already defined character. It's descritpion is in the books, theres no amount of circunventing that gonna change that.
The only thing I'm waiting for is how all those tragic events that were part of Snape life (and define who he is) gonna play out in this. I'm willing to guess it's gonna be all omited.

I think it will be the opposite, there will be HUGE chunks of the show that are flashbacks. No way they can make the show just about the kids. I think they are casting actors who can play older and younger versions of themselves because they fully intend to have the "pre-harry" aspects be major parts of the show. So all the main teachers will get extensive backstory elaboration. Lithgow they will deage with CG but I bet most of the rest will just get a haircut and a shave.

But yes, I also feel like snape will undergo significant alteration to position him more as a tragic hero than reformed villain from the start. My guess is the Malfoys will also get a lot of "complexity" added to them.

 

[John Bilbo]

Right, I agree. They let talent and experience trump adherence to the character's description in the book, and it worked out well for Rickman. So why not give Paapa the same chance? He's a good actor and deserves the same as Rickman.

Really, we can really distinguish people who never had interest in Harry Potter or didn't read or watch anything related.

Like unironically the casting director lmao.

 

[Saber]

I think it will be the opposite, there will be HUGE chunks of the show that are flashbacks. No way they can make the show just about the kids. I think they are casting actors who can play older and younger versions of themselves because they fully intend to have the "pre-harry" aspects be major parts of the show. So all the main teachers will get extensive backstory elaboration. Lithgow they will deage with CG but I bet most of the rest will just get a haircut and a shave.

But yes, I also feel like snape will undergo significant alteration to position him more as a tragic hero than reformed villain from the start. My guess is the Malfoys will also get a lot of "complexity" added to them.

Could be, I agree. But the reason I'm willing to guess that they're all gonna be omitted or offuscated is because it's easier to do so.
Like for instance, they instead of mention he was victim of bullying they could simply say that Snape and Harrys dad wasn't on good terms. Instead of an enitre scene about Harry legimency class, they could just throw an exaulted Harry to talk with either Hermione or Ron explaining reafirming the same thing, without giving explicit details of it.
They could even go around saying that he sided with Voldemort for "personal reasons" but not give any detail about.

You also brough an another character on the table which is the Malfoys. I'm willing to bet they gonna stay pretty much exactly what the books and the films describe them. Thats because they mostly defined as "villains" of the series, so theres nothing to change in the eyes of the director.

 

[rubik's dude]

I think it will be the opposite, there will be HUGE chunks of the show that are flashbacks. No way they can make the show just about the kids. I think they are casting actors who can play older and younger versions of themselves because they fully intend to have the "pre-harry" aspects be major parts of the show. So all the main teachers will get extensive backstory elaboration. Lithgow they will deage with CG but I bet most of the rest will just get a haircut and a shave.

But yes, I also feel like snape will undergo significant alteration to position him more as a tragic hero than reformed villain from the start. My guess is the Malfoys will also get a lot of "complexity" added to them.

Honestly there's nothing wrong with using a newer adaptation to refine a character at the beginning of a long running series like Harry Potter, where the author may not have totally fleshed out the character the way they would've liked until later on.

But changing an aspect of a character that would fundamentally alter their dynamic in the story with every other character and story element is crazy work.

 

[jason10mm]

Honestly there's nothing wrong with using a newer adaptation to refine a character at the beginning of a long running series like Harry Potter, where the author may not have totally fleshed out the character the way they would've liked until later on.

But changing an aspect of a character that would fundamentally alter their dynamic in the story with every other character and story element is crazy work.

Certainly there are a lot of little inconsistencies with characters that could be ironed out with a refresh of the story. There can also be proper foreshadowing with stuff like the Triwizard Tournament and proper incorporation of the wizard world within the muggle one earlier in the series.

But, when you really dive into the worldbuilding, you keep coming back to a few fundamental basic 'truths' about how magic works and how these wizard societies evolved that precludes a "modern" interpretation to them. The Wizards essentially being slave owners, hell the entire house elf conundrum, really, adds a MASSIVE racial element depending on how you cast certain key players. It's already there a bit, but you can side walk it enough for kids and keep it light when it isn't a black Malfoy with a slave or black Hermione petitioning, largely unsuccessfully, to free them. Even calling the group SPEW, funny enough on paper, is kinda atrocious if it's applied to an allegory of the transatlantic slave trade. Not to mention the gold managing goblins, already a loaded visual depiction, becomes worse when examined more closely and in context with modern events.

Some of this is on JKR as I think she, consciously or subconsciously, employed a lot of racial stereotypes in her work, but also it's just the clash of British culture she's from versus the larger world. On the one hand that very 'britishishness' is a major appeal to the IP, but i's also a problematic component when oriented towards adults with more critical thinking capability. The later books and films veered into that territory, and I fear how the show will drag that stuff forward into the beginning and then flagellate itself trying to work it all in.

 

[rubik's dude]

Certainly there are a lot of little inconsistencies with characters that could be ironed out with a refresh of the story. There can also be proper foreshadowing with stuff like the Triwizard Tournament and proper incorporation of the wizard world within the muggle one earlier in the series.

But, when you really dive into the worldbuilding, you keep coming back to a few fundamental basic 'truths' about how magic works and how these wizard societies evolved that precludes a "modern" interpretation to them. The Wizards essentially being slave owners, hell the entire house elf conundrum, really, adds a MASSIVE racial element depending on how you cast certain key players. It's already there a bit, but you can side walk it enough for kids and keep it light when it isn't a black Malfoy with a slave or black Hermione petitioning, largely unsuccessfully, to free them. Even calling the group SPEW, funny enough on paper, is kinda atrocious if it's applied to an allegory of the transatlantic slave trade. Not to mention the gold managing goblins, already a loaded visual depiction, becomes worse when examined more closely and in context with modern events.

Some of this is on JKR as I think she, consciously or subconsciously, employed a lot of racial stereotypes in her work, but also it's just the clash of British culture she's from versus the larger world. On the one hand that very 'britishishness' is a major appeal to the IP, but i's also a problematic component when oriented towards adults with more critical thinking capability. The later books and films veered into that territory, and I fear how the show will drag that stuff forward into the beginning and then flagellate itself trying to work it all in.

Yeah some good points.

Thing is, Harry Potter came out in a time where the elements people see as problematic today, weren't as hyper-fixated on back then. Probably because like you said, adults are the ones pointing them out, but adults weren't the ones reading the books back then. The kids who grew up with the books are adults now and recognize with their adult brains the more controversial elements of the books they read as kids, such as the house elves slavery, and even the portrayal of the goblins being akin to Jewish stereotypes.

The problem with a modern adaptation is if they get too caught up in the weeds of trying to explain or justify or change this stuff, it'll no longer resemble the original story. Harry Potter, like any other contemporary work, is a reflection of the time and place it was released in, warts and all. If the story is considered "too problematic" to adapt nowadays, then just don't adapt it.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I wonder if Harry Potta' father is going to be a redneck.

 

[jason10mm]

Yeah some good points.

Thing is, Harry Potter came out in a time where the elements people see as problematic today, weren't as hyper-fixated on back then. Probably because like you said, adults are the ones pointing them out, but adults weren't the ones reading the books back then. The kids who grew up with the books are adults now and recognize with their adult brains the more controversial elements of the books they read as kids, such as the house elves slavery, and even the portrayal of the goblins being akin to Jewish stereotypes.

The problem with a modern adaptation is if they get too caught up in the weeds of trying to explain or justify or change this stuff, it'll no longer resemble the original story. Harry Potter, like any other contemporary work, is a reflection of the time and place it was released in, warts and all. If the story is considered "too problematic" to adapt nowadays, then just don't adapt it.

I think you can embrace the story, but you gotta EMBRACE the story. Set it in the time period and culture in which it was created. Cast it like it was in the books. Then all these "problematic" aspects go away because they were never big issues, really. House elves being a mythologic race of demi-humans with artificial restrictions and magical aspects makes it easier to port them into a working class struggle framework (which is probably where 1990's JKR was going with it in the first place) than racial one.

But if you have muggles walking around with cell phones then "others" mingled with them that are wearing robes, don't use technology, and sorta kinda co-exist just under the surface makes less and less sense. Voldemort as an existential threat to muggles carries little threat when his most powerful weapon is a wand that acts like a single shot pistol and I have drones on my side. It's why you need to step back a little. But you also have long standing wizard families that seem very regionally locked to Britain (as other areas have their own schools and societies) so you gotta dial back to the 1800's at least when considering who and what they are.

There have been a lot of harry potter like IPs that come and go. What makes HP so successful? I think the every issues some complain about now are the secrets to its success, and tampering with them will lead to ruin.

 

[rubik's dude]

I think you can embrace the story, but you gotta EMBRACE the story. Set it in the time period and culture in which it was created. Cast it like it was in the books.

Probably the only correct solution. There are so many adaptations of things I've seen that were retconned to take place in "modern times" (relative to when the adaptation released) and it ends up breaking the story because it wasn't meant to take place in modern times. It'd be crazy if this new adaptation also took place like, now now.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I guess they are aiming at new audience though in case of Snape, the actor is just too iconic as he was in every movie over the course of 10 years. That's a lot.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

Adam Driver would've been the obvious choice in my opinion.

In the books, Snape is the wizarding world equivalent of a Nazi sympathizer. I assume they're going to drop that entirely for the show. I wonder how they'll get around the whole "Half-Blood Prince" thing.....

 

[Hookshot]

In the books, Snape is the wizarding world equivalent of a Nazi sympathizer. I assume they're going to drop that entirely for the show. I wonder how they'll get around the whole "Half-Blood Prince" thing.....

It's 90's Britain, we still called people "Half-caste" back then, but both his parents are Ghanaian so it would make as much sense as his casting. How Lucius is going to explain his black mate is the bigger issue.

 

[GymWolf]

I guess driver would be better but i would look at his version of snape and think about that whiny bitch of kylo ren cryingg and screaming like the little turd that he was, i would not be able to take snape seriously at all.

 

[rubik's dude]

The problem with getting Adam Driver, or any big name, is that they'll be stuck filming this for the next 7 years. Due to the child actors, the seasons will have to be shot back to back, which leaves little room for anything else. So that's at least 7 years of contractual obligation on one project.

Can't imagine Adam Driver would want to stifle his career like that. The cast will likely be made up of up-and-comers and seasoned actors that don't have a lot going on anymore.