Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
People will wait for PS6.
All Sony has to do to counter a possible early Next Box, is announce that PS6 is coming.
Xbox dug their hole that deep.
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Piscatella: In the US, PS5 is now trending 9% above PS4; XBS trails behind XBO by 11%
All Sony has to do to counter a possible early Next Box, is announce that PS6 is coming.
Xbox dug their hole that deep.
BootsLoader
Banned
Game Pass and engagement is key.
systemr123
Banned
Gamepass was, is, and always be a bad idea for MS’s own business. It should either be contained to just Xbox, or not exist at all. Now all games you can play on pc with better settings, making it virtually useless to buy an Xbox.
Also, if MS stops with console business but wants to continue with Gamepass it will fail miserably. On pc people love steam much more than the Xbox app. And Nintendo and Sony will probably never allow the service on their ecosystem.
And even if they would do that, Gamepass is still useless because the Sony and Nintendo crowd buy different games in general than the Gamepass indies.
Also, if MS stops with console business but wants to continue with Gamepass it will fail miserably. On pc people love steam much more than the Xbox app. And Nintendo and Sony will probably never allow the service on their ecosystem.
And even if they would do that, Gamepass is still useless because the Sony and Nintendo crowd buy different games in general than the Gamepass indies.
Taur007
Member
But is that a bad thing though considering they're most likely paying 18$ recurring to do so (xcloud) or are you implying they bought a different console?
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Limited production due to yield problems early on.
Xbox 360 defects: an inside history of Microsoft’s video game console woes
Go or no go? Leading up to the launch in the fall of 2005, the number of defective units would soon grow to tens of thousands. Any other consumer electronics company would likely have postponed a launch with such low yields. But Microsoft had more money in the bank than anyone else. The decision...
venturebeat.com
skit_data
Member
Haven't even thought of that. It runs the risk of becoming a similar situation (not really overall but console sales wise) to the Dreamcast where everyone knew PS2 was coming so they waited instead.
Freelance Yakuza
Member
Oh, I don't disagree with you. It's just that 'brand loyalty' is just another excuse in the realm of 'external forces' that are beyond Microsoft's control, therefore 'no matter what they do,' they will never win against PlayStation.
Your examples show perfectly that Microsoft themselves failed to make a product that people want. They made tons of bad decisions, going beyond just the 'Xbox One fiasco'.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Agreed. We are right back to pre-PS2 days where Sony has that much good will/marketshare.
Unknown?
Member
Yeah initially it wasn't.
They could turn it around with the right management. Look at Sega with the Genesis. Going up against a company that has 95% of the market and in a few short years actually getting above 50%.
SimTourist
Member
Also important to consider long crossgen periods where the impact of new hardware is lessened for a while until devs ramp up nextgen production. Dreamcast at least had truly nextgen stuff to launch with. Still PS2 was believed to be a lot more powerful. These days a console coming a year later will 100% have better specs, it's not even a PS3 situation where the 360 could have the advantage due to PS3's messy hardware design. Even this gen when PS5 wasn't available some people bought Xbox Series consoles only to sell them later for a PS5.
Alan Wake
Member
I just wonder if Microsoft even care at this stage. Doesn't seem like it. Is this the last generation of Xbox consoles? Are they just going to focus on Game pass from now on? Or are they comfortable with Xbox being even more niche like, say, the Surface line of products?
Dr. Acid Avatar
Member
Why would I want an Xbox console if I can play their games on PC at much better settings? I just need Sony to do the same shit and release their games day one on PC. I'd gladly get rid of their console too.
Imtjnotu
Member
and thus why they dont and will continue to sell Consoles like crazy.
Kokoloko85
Member
BC didnt help, Gamepass didnt help, Bethesda didnt help and nothing will. The 360 was a good time for them, they wont be close to that again
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
so what youre saying is that if xbox retires Nintendo can enter the power race again??
kill xbox now
StealthGoblin
Banned
Yep. Nintendo is about to take a huge bite out of Sony and Xboxes lunch. More people are likely to buy in the switch ecosystem with a more competent console and if more games that have historically skipped Nintendo end up on their platform then that's a lot of 30% cuts lost for them.
In that scenario Xbox make less from third parties, have a subscription struggling to hit critical mass and are choosing to ignore giant userbases. That isn't an argument that stands up in a board room.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Of course, they care. The notion that 'they don't care about consoles' is a peculiar form of coping, revealing the bipolar nature of the Xbox fanbase and highlighting the contradiction in Xbox's messaging and strategy.
is baffling to see the degree of denial of Xbox fans when it comes to see how bad the xbox brand and console reputation really is. (everything started since the second half of the 360 era). Just let that sink in.
what we have seen over the years from MS/Xbox is utterly and unmitigated incompetence and lack of understanding of the videogame industry.
This year, for example, was supposed to be THE YEAR when everything fell into place, and THE 'master plan' was finally set to come to fruition....has been a mixed bag at best. (more like a failure, to be honest).
So, are they happy/comfortable with the situation? I can guarantee you they are not.
but because thanks to all the acquisitons; Xbox's revenue/user engagement are going to increase exponentially so Xbox division is going to be fine.
the issue is going arise when MS realizes how much money they need to keep spending to sustain all of their studios and publishers.
Skifi28
Member
Alan Wake
Member
The mismanagement of their studios is proof of incompetence to me. But even an incompetent person would know that you need to make your product known by marketing it. The lack of a marketing push leading up to the launch of Starfield makes me wonder if they really care at this point. (Of course they do care, but how much? Is console even in their future plan?)
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I agree with a lot of this post but you shouldn’t be surprised by something being popular and selling on brand name alone, it happens in every industry. I own all the consoles and I agree that the gen has been kind of meh so far but Sonys lack of new IPs and smaller quality titles we’ve seen from them in the past is pretty alarming. And getting dominant sales despite doing fuck all doesn’t bode well for a change in the future. And Xbox leaving the hardware business sure won’t make Sony change for the better.
As for Xbox sales, not really surprising. They don’t do exclusives, everything is day one on PC. In a lot of cases it’s also day one on Switch and PlayStation. And now you don’t even need hardware to play the games, use GamePass and xCloud.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Starfield was well marketed, what are you saying?
Do you understand that doesn't make sense? Why then someone should waste money on an Xbox.
Imtjnotu
Member
The only downside to this is if you can get it else where, why buy the system.
It just goes back to exclusives sell consoles for you.
Alan Wake
Member
Was it in the US? Not in the EU. And where were the bundles and the limited edition consoles?
recursive
Member
Engagement?
demigod
Member
Yeah, commercials in US like I said.
Also ms trying to win the holidays. $399 xsx diablo bundle PLUS a $50 giftcard at Best Buy.
Xss 512gb for $239 at Amazon, probably clearing stock.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
It's actually quite amazing that Sony managed to build up such a strong position in one gen...
Humdinger
Gold Member
Yeah, it's just the US market, which is notable, since the US is by far Xbox's strongest market.
Some context, though: We look back and consider the Xbox One a flop, but it actually sold well (in the US) for the first couple of years. So the comparison benchmark here is not a poorly selling console at all. The Xbox One sold quite well in the US for the first two years. I believe it may have even outsold the PS4, despite all the backlash over the terrible launch. Two reasons for the good sales: It benefitted from the good will US gamers still had towards the 360, and it had (iirc) a better exclusive lineup than the PS4 did in those first couple years (PS4 was pretty dry at first).
So that's worth remembering. When people say, "Oh my goodness, it didn't even sell as well as the Xbone?" they are forgetting that the Xbone actually sold well in its first couple years. It took a while before the reputational damage (lack of games, "wait 'till next year" over and over) accumulated and created the stink we now associate with the Xbox One.
MisterXDTV
Member
FrankWza
Gold Member
Wasn't it cheaper last year at some retailers?
ANIMAL1975
Member
Sh****it! They better buy some big studios or publishers. Like Bethesda, or Activision,... something.
YTD October
2023 PS5 ~4.24 m
2023 XBS ~2.19 m
2016 PS4 ~2.41 m
2016 XBO ~2.22 m
LTD (After 36 months)
PS5 ~16.16m
PS4 ~14.83m
XBO ~13.33m
XBS ~11.86 m
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Not to mention $500 ($400 later) Xbox One launch price vs. a $299 Series S that regularly sold at a discounted price of $229.
Mythoclast
Member
They really do need to put COD on GamePass.
Mythoclast
Member
They messed up with the whole
SERIES S thing. Should’ve stood with 1 version, otherwise it’s confusing. Who doesn’t have a 4K these days?
SERIES S thing. Should’ve stood with 1 version, otherwise it’s confusing. Who doesn’t have a 4K these days?
MisterXDTV
Member
Yes, the crazy thing is we are comparing TWO consoles combined vs ONE and they are still DOWN
Imtjnotu
Member
demigod
Member
I think you had to be a Verizon customer and I think it was $200.
FalconPunch
Member
I laugh at the premise that Microsoft will try to preempt Sony by launching first next gen. It won’t matter as we saw this gen. Something Phil Spencer has failed to understand is that people buy your consoles to play unique games that they can’t find anywhere else. If the whole premise of your console is just to play games that you can play on other systems, there’s no reason to buy yours. There’s no differentiating factor to separate you from the competition.
Xbox has 3 major problems right now. The first is their incompetent management. They make notoriously bad decisions that does irreparable damage to the brand. Furthermore, they can’t decide if they want to be a hardware company or a software company. If you want to be a hardware company, your hardware needs exclusives. You can’t eat your cake and have it. It’s the number one rule of selling hardware. If you want to be a software company, you have to release your games everywhere and you can’t release them day one on a subscription service.
This leads nicely to my next point. Gamepass in its current structure is an albatross around Microsoft’s neck. Currently, it’s a net negative. Making high quality games that people want to play requires a lot of money. The amount of money that will never be generated by a subscription service. Furthermore, you devalue your games by putting them on gamepass day one. It’s like that straight to dvd nonsense. There’s a reason movie publishers do theatrical release first before selling it via digital and bluray, then putting it on streaming. Instead of making Joe Blow pay $70 to find out that starfield sucks, he paid $5-$10. The same is true for Forza Motorsport. So instead of Microsoft getting a potential $140, they got max $20. Those studios can’t even get the full $20 because Microsoft have to pay for the other games on the service. They’re genuinely fleecing themselves and I don’t understand why.
Finally, they’re something wrong with the creative process at Microsoft as it relates to games. Their games are creatively bereft and mostly boring. If I look at their upcoming lineup, I can’t see one game that make a casual person want to pickup an Xbox. It’s really bad. Like release a whole new console and not be arsed to change the ui levels of bad. You’d think that having the backing of Microsoft would allow you to take the risks that others couldn’t take but it’s opposite. It’s like they’re risk averse. I remember watching the Xbox documentary on YouTube and understanding the process of how the Xbox and 360 came to be. There was such passion, uncertainty and the fear of the consequences that would arise from failure. It’s caused them to push towards the creation of something special. Xbox could have been jettisoned at anytime and everyone knew it. Now, these guys fail two generations in a row and they’re rewarded with $70 billion to buy a studio? I think the management needs to be overhauled and Xbox needs to be spun off to its own subsidiary. They need that passion back and that fear of the consequences of failure back. Right now, they’re too comfortable in their mediocrity.
The last thing we need is for Xbox to just fade away. It’ll cause Sony to become complacent and arrogant. In fact, we can already see signs of it happening. Competition yields the best product for consumers so hopefully, they can turn this ship around.
Xbox has 3 major problems right now. The first is their incompetent management. They make notoriously bad decisions that does irreparable damage to the brand. Furthermore, they can’t decide if they want to be a hardware company or a software company. If you want to be a hardware company, your hardware needs exclusives. You can’t eat your cake and have it. It’s the number one rule of selling hardware. If you want to be a software company, you have to release your games everywhere and you can’t release them day one on a subscription service.
This leads nicely to my next point. Gamepass in its current structure is an albatross around Microsoft’s neck. Currently, it’s a net negative. Making high quality games that people want to play requires a lot of money. The amount of money that will never be generated by a subscription service. Furthermore, you devalue your games by putting them on gamepass day one. It’s like that straight to dvd nonsense. There’s a reason movie publishers do theatrical release first before selling it via digital and bluray, then putting it on streaming. Instead of making Joe Blow pay $70 to find out that starfield sucks, he paid $5-$10. The same is true for Forza Motorsport. So instead of Microsoft getting a potential $140, they got max $20. Those studios can’t even get the full $20 because Microsoft have to pay for the other games on the service. They’re genuinely fleecing themselves and I don’t understand why.
Finally, they’re something wrong with the creative process at Microsoft as it relates to games. Their games are creatively bereft and mostly boring. If I look at their upcoming lineup, I can’t see one game that make a casual person want to pickup an Xbox. It’s really bad. Like release a whole new console and not be arsed to change the ui levels of bad. You’d think that having the backing of Microsoft would allow you to take the risks that others couldn’t take but it’s opposite. It’s like they’re risk averse. I remember watching the Xbox documentary on YouTube and understanding the process of how the Xbox and 360 came to be. There was such passion, uncertainty and the fear of the consequences that would arise from failure. It’s caused them to push towards the creation of something special. Xbox could have been jettisoned at anytime and everyone knew it. Now, these guys fail two generations in a row and they’re rewarded with $70 billion to buy a studio? I think the management needs to be overhauled and Xbox needs to be spun off to its own subsidiary. They need that passion back and that fear of the consequences of failure back. Right now, they’re too comfortable in their mediocrity.
The last thing we need is for Xbox to just fade away. It’ll cause Sony to become complacent and arrogant. In fact, we can already see signs of it happening. Competition yields the best product for consumers so hopefully, they can turn this ship around.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Well selling consoles is still important so there's that.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
They would probably lose half of the COD-fanbase instantly if they do that though. Lol
Edit:
Just checked.
PC 17.5M
Playstation 11.2M
Xbox 5.6M.
Still a huge chunck on Playstation. That's a lot of revenue to miss out on and COD alone won't be enough to make people jump ship, apart from a very small minority.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Where did you get these numbers from?
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Mownoc
Member
Interesting CoD has had a heavier skew towards consoles in the past. I'm guessing Warzone changed this.
gow3isben
Member
GAMEPASS