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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Well, I got some news that's gonna ruin everyone's day. Remember that pseudo-public option thing in Obamacare that everyone found out existed like a month or two ago? Well, apparently that got shitcanned somewhere in the middle of the fiscal cliff negotiations:

If you thought that Obamacare was a sacred item for Democrats in any budget negotiations, think again:


When Congress struck a deal to avert the fiscal cliff, it also dealt a quiet blow to President Obama’s health overhaul: The new law killed a multibillion-dollar program meant to boost health insurance competition by funding nonprofit health plans.

The decision to end funding for the Consumer Operated and Oriented Plans has left as many as 40 start-ups vying for federal dollars in limbo. Some are considering legal action against the Obama administration, after many spent upwards of $100,000 preparing their applications.
[...]
The Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan, or CO-OP, program was aimed at spending as much as $6 billion to help launch nonprofit health insurance carriers. It came into favor with Democrats when it became clear that a government-run plan, known as the public option, could not gain enough political support.
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http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/theyre-cutting-off-one-finger-at-time.html
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Alright that's really fucked up. Why did fucking Obama have to give up anything like that? And plus it scars one of his sacred accomplishments and means we won't have even a small scale experiment to prove to fucktard conservatives everywhere that, yes, it does work better than what we have now

fucking Obama, one step forward, one step back, perpetual running in place
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Amir0x said:
Alright that's really fucked up. Why did fucking Obama have to give up anything like that? And plus it scars one of his sacred accomplishments and means we won't have even a small scale experiment to prove to fucktard conservatives everywhere that, yes, it does work better than what we have now

fucking Obama, one step forward, one step back, perpetual running in place
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1. He's a coward
2. He's conservative on welfare issues, so he doesn't give two shits when he gives away things like SS or Medicare cuts or even fuckin' OBAMAcare cuts.

Probably a mixture of both.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Oblivion said:
Well, I got some news that's gonna ruin everyone's day. Remember that pseudo-public option thing in Obamacare that everyone found out existed like a month or two ago? Well, apparently that got shitcanned somewhere in the middle of the fiscal cliff negotiations:



http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/theyre-cutting-off-one-finger-at-time.html
Click to expand...

I thought the pseudo public option thing was letting one non-profit insurance company operate nationwide.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/30/1152771/-A-shocking-Obamacare-fact-no-one-realizes#

And it looks like $2 billion of the original $6 billion CO-OP fund has already been given out. The latest deal was actually the second time it's been cut:

The CO-OP program’s funding was cut from $6 billion to $3.4 billion in a previous budget deal. The fiscal cliff deal cuts nearly all of the program’s unobligated funds, about $1 billion, leaving only a small portion of money to administer the CO-OP loans already granted.
Click to expand...
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Amir0x said:
Alright that's really fucked up. Why did fucking Obama have to give up anything like that? And plus it scars one of his sacred accomplishments and means we won't have even a small scale experiment to prove to fucktard conservatives everywhere that, yes, it does work better than what we have now

fucking Obama, one step forward, one step back, perpetual running in place
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A) Half the program is still in place. This just cut the second tranche.
B) This isn't actually the "pseudo public option" from before, this is a totally different program.
C) Still sucks that it got cut.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Clevinger said:
1. He's a coward
2. He's conservative on welfare issues, so he doesn't give two shits when he gives away things like SS or Medicare cuts or even fuckin' OBAMAcare cuts.

Probably a mixture of both.
Click to expand...

I mean he's so infuriating to me because it's like he ENJOYS walking up to cliffs and just wagging his dick before walking himself back and looking weak and dogged in the process.

The process goes something like this

1. State a position that is really appealing, complete with pie-in-the-sky statements about how he will do his best to work with Republicans

2. Get a gathering of people together to make recommendations on how exactly his position should be expanded into legislation.

3. Even though the Republicans have zero leverage other than "we're just not going to get anything done in Washington basically", he immediately starts to give up on small details. At first we all say 'well, he's trying to compromise to paint Republicans into a corner and make them look bad to the American people. Eleventh Dimensional Chess!'

4. Then he starts giving up big things and Harry Reid fucking whips his dick out and just proceeds to piss directly on Obama's face and the paper detailing the retarded position he buckled on

5. Claims victory at the end because he got a bill that in at least some points critically and disproportionately impacts lower income individuals, even though at no point in time did Republicans even have a single shred of superior political capital.

6. Continues to let the debate shift into the Republican fantasy about deficits and spending
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Oblivion said:
Well, I got some news that's gonna ruin everyone's day. Remember that pseudo-public option thing in Obamacare that everyone found out existed like a month or two ago? Well, apparently that got shitcanned somewhere in the middle of the fiscal cliff negotiations:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/theyre-cutting-off-one-finger-at-time.html
Click to expand...

What the fucking fuck!?

It's not only that he gave up something obviously good. It's that he gave it up and then nothing was ever said about it at all. Like, he got no capital at all for giving it up, so why fucking do it? It's not like people are sitting around going "Oh, well, he gave up part of Obamacare in this deal, so it was a fair trade." No, it's "Oh the Republicans caved on taxes and Obama didn't cut anything." Fucking A...
 
R

RDreamer

Member
In other news, Drudge is fucking hilarious now. Picture of Obama with kids at the top then interspersed images of Hitler with a kid and Stalin with a kid throughout the rest. Real subtle.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Clevinger said:
All right, PD. I'm now a Hilary convert. I wish she'd won that primary.
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If Hillary would have won we'd have single payer AND the debt limit would be done away with altogether.

tumblr_menblcokdn1r81qqwo1_500.gif
 
C

campfireweekend

Member
Though it certainly is fun to get caught up in the inane drama bred by our current political climate, I have a question about the purpose of this thread. Is this solely a place to review the current political goings from day to day and/or a place to discuss and debate policy?

Thanks!
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
campfireweekend said:
Though it certainly is fun to get caught up in the inane drama bred by our current political climate, I have a question about the purpose of this thread. Is this solely a place to review the current political goings from day to day and/or a place to discuss and debate policy?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Both. Basically it's a catch-all thread. If you're interesting in something just bring it up and you can find someone to talk to.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
How do you fucking give up concessions like that when you have your opponent on the wall, it just doesn't make sense. You'd think after four years of this shit Obama/the White House would have somewhat of an idea how this should work and shouldn't work
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Politico had an outstanding but truly bone-chilling story yesterday about how appealing the prospects of a default and a government shutdown may be to House Republicans.

According to the piece by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen and Jake Sherman, forcing a default by not raising the debt ceiling and shutting down the government by not passing a continuing resolution may be the preferred ways to go by a majority of the House GOP caucus no matter what that would mean to the U.S. economy, the Republican Party’s overall approval rating, the GOP’s prospects for a Senate majority in 2014 or a Republican winning the White House in 2016.

To those of us who have watched Washington operate for a while, this obviously sounds like totally insane, crazy self-destructive behavior by the House GOP.

But it would be wrong to dismiss it out of hand. From the conversations I’ve had with Republicans House members and staff since the 2012 election, the threats, are real and make a great deal of political sense no matter how obnoxious and damaging it otherwise would be.

The key is the new House GOP politics of this decade.

I’ve repeatedly been told that, with redistricting in place, House Republicans are relatively certain they’ll be able to maintain the majority at least through the end of this decade if they continue to appeal to the GOP base in their congressional districts.

The GOP’s base’s two biggest economic issues are tax and spending cuts. Therefore, taking a hard line in all budget debates is what makes the most sense politically and makes it most likely that Republicans will be in power for years to come.
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http://blog.ourfuture.org/20130115/...t-default-and-shutdown-is-not-an-empty-threat

you see what happens /Walter

I've been saying 2020 for awhile. I suppose a wave election in 2016 (Hillary) could do the trick, but it would still be very hard given the amount of republican specific districts that were created.

Ultimately the democrats new "ascendant" base will need to show up and vote in off elections.
 
E

el retorno

Member
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Smh. The limit will be raised before we default. Come on. Boehner isnt an idiot. He will once again break the Hastert Rule and get Dems to oass the increase in the house. He can read the tea leaves even if his caucus cant.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I never doubted it would be raised (although I do believe Obama will negotiate over it), I'm just saying the GOP won't suffer any consequences for this brinksmanship due to gerrymandering.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I never doubted it would be raised (although I do believe Obama will negotiate over it), I'm just saying the GOP won't suffer any consequences for this brinksmanship due to gerrymandering.
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Yes just like they haven't been suffering the consequences for their moronic behavior so far. The times have changed. The public is tired of games. They want a leader who gets things done. They want Obama.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Reading the original article, it seems that Obama and other people didn't believe in the CO-OP loans being that successful anymore.

Even some Affordable Care Act supporters had doubts about whether the start-ups could succeed. They would have needed to repay their federal loans within five years.
“This program didn’t do a lot to get these guys the resources they needed,” said Sabrina Corlette, a research professor at Georgetown University’s Health Policy Institute. “These aren’t grants; they’re loans, and there was a really fast time frame for loans to be repaid. You’d have to cobble a lot together incredibly quickly.”
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As piegeon said it probably sucks, but don't overreact, either. This isn't that public option thing and some of it is out there already - perhaps these were the riskier loans (which is why it was taking longer to get them approved) and such.

The CO-OPS can still happen, mind you, just it won't get loans form the government.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Rocket Scientist said:
Yes just like they haven't been suffering the consequences for their moronic behavior so far. The times have changed. The public is tired of games. They want a leader who gets things done. They want Obama.
Click to expand...

Yea but if we get two years of brinkmanship specifically focused on slowing down the recovery, will voters blame republicans...or will they punish democrats for two more years of slow growth? Worse yet, will democrats and their coalition of blacks/Hispanics/young people/etc show up and vote, or just say "Obama didn't do anything but raise my taxes."

Republicans are playing a long game, just like last time. Just look at gun control: anyone think Obama's numbers will be at 55-57% in a month, or two months? No. And as he comes back to earth, support/interest in gun control will wane, the White House will start itching to begin immigration, etc. The longer republicans wait, the better their position becomes.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Yea but if we get two years of brinkmanship specifically focused on slowing down the recovery, will voters blame republicans...or will they punish democrats for two more years of slow growth? Worse yet, will democrats and their coalition of blacks/Hispanics/young people/etc show up and vote, or just say "Obama didn't do anything but raise my taxes."

Republicans are playing a long game, just like last time. Just look at gun control: anyone think Obama's numbers will be at 55-57% in a month, or two months? No. And as he comes back to earth, support/interest in gun control will wane, the White House will start itching to begin immigration, etc. The longer republicans wait, the better their position becomes.
Click to expand...

Well, you have a point. By that time Obama will be so sleepless from the constant divorce talk with Michelle and sexual frustration that he will give up anything to feel like a man.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
So this wasn't that pseudo-public option thing? Man I learned to stop caring what Obama does because there is always some sort of mass hype to it.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
ClovingWestbrook said:
And you will be wrong in 2014.
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I'd like to believe you but those gerrymandered districts are pretty damn strong. The Dems would need a massive wave election to take the House. At best, I think they could maybe win a few more seats but they still won't get the majority.



I was listening to some NPR thing and the did some man on street interviews. Conservatives have this meme of Obama spending too much. What the fuck do they think he is spending more on? Is there some massive new program that has come along in the last 3 years? Granted, there was the initial stimulus spending. But beyond that . . . what? Do they think he's stashing in a mattress somewhere? Do they think the budget is blown because of Obamaphones and food stamps?

Stereotypes trump facts it seems.

Rocket Scientist said:
Yes just like they haven't been suffering the consequences for their moronic behavior so far. The times have changed. The public is tired of games. They want a leader who gets things done. They want Obama.
Click to expand...

But they got slammed in 2012 and yet still held the house. They got a million fewer votes for the Congressional candidates but still hold the House by a good margin. And the Dem voters are not going to show up in 2014 but the gray-hairs will.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Yea but if we get two years of brinkmanship specifically focused on slowing down the recovery, will voters blame republicans...or will they punish democrats for two more years of slow growth? Worse yet, will democrats and their coalition of blacks/Hispanics/young people/etc show up and vote, or just say "Obama didn't do anything but raise my taxes."
Click to expand...
that is definitely a real concern. As much as we like to ridicule the Republican electorate as dumb, there are dumb people on the left as well. Just looking at the messaging so far on the gun legislation and tax cuts it's clear that things are different though. The polls are in favor of the Democrats and the fact that there are important pieces of legislation such as immigration coming up, means that Obama can continue riding a high and delivering punches to the Republicans' faces. The wave is behind him and could very well carry him and Democrats to victory in '14.
speculawyer said:
But they got slammed in 2012 and yet still held the house. They got a million fewer votes for the Congressional candidates but still hold the House by a good margin. And the Dem voters are not going to show up in 2014 but the gray-hairs will.
Click to expand...
In 2012 the Obama campaign wasn't yet able to know the exact consequences of gerrymandering. I'm certain that those math geniuses have done their homework and analyses and are working up a way to get voter turnout in the places that are going to be critical.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
speculawyer said:
I'd like to believe you but those gerrymandered districts are pretty damn strong. The Dems would need a massive wave election to take the House. At best, I think they could maybe win a few more seats but they still won't get the majority.



I was listening to some NPR thing and the did some man on street interviews. Conservatives have this meme of Obama spending too much. What the fuck do they think he is spending more on? Is there some massive new program that has come along in the last 3 years? Granted, there was the initial stimulus spending. But beyond that . . . what? Do they think he's stashing in a mattress somewhere? Do they think the budget is blown because of Obamaphones and food stamps?

Stereotypes trump facts it seems.
Click to expand...

Well a one world government being run by the U.N. won't pay for itself.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Clevinger said:
Dems will be losing seats too.
Click to expand...

Not if the GOP forces a default.


I will guarantee if the debt ceiling is not raised and we do default and so long as Obama doesn't do something really stupid, the GOP will lose the House in 2014. All the gerrymandering in the world won't save them for forcing the world into recession.

But again, I fully expect them to raise it no matter what.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
Clevinger said:
Dems will be losing seats too.
Click to expand...
Hell no. Biggest gun legislation in years + Obamacare benefits showing more + economy recovering + republicans kicking and screaming at everything and demanding cuts to all kinds of entitlements that people love + big immigration law + ending another war = Dem victory.
 
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