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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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F

Fenderputty

Banned
Chichikov said:
The Tea Party cannot survive outside the GOP, and that's exactly why you'll never see them break away in force.
Sure, you'll probably have some idiots who lost primaries trying to run under that banner, but I seriously doubt you'll see someone like Rand Paul falling on his sword for the Tea Party.
Click to expand...

You honestly can't picture a scenario in which the GOP becomes even more fractured?
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Fenderputty said:
You honestly can't picture a scenario in which the GOP becomes even more fractured?
Click to expand...
I can see infighting, I don't see any of the big tea party stars leaving the party unless they get primaried.
The Tea Party can only really win races under the umbrella of the GOP, they don't have the money, organization or even public support in most places to win seats otherwise, some idiots might not understand it, but I'm sure people like the Pauls do.
 
K

kehs

Banned
North Korea Third Nuclear Test

U.S. intelligence agencies were analyzing the event and had found that North Korea probably conducted an underground nuclear explosion with a yield of "approximately several kilotons," the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said in a statement that called it a "declared nuclear test."

"North Korea announced today that it conducted a third nuclear test. This is a highly provocative act that, following its December 12 ballistic missile launch, undermines regional stability," Obama said, adding that the test violated United Nations and other international agreements.

"The danger posed by North Korea's threatening activities warrants further swift and credible action by the international community. The United States will also continue to take steps necessary to defend ourselves and our allies," Obama said.

North Korea is banned under U.N. Security Council resolutions from developing nuclear and missile technology. The tests drew condemnation from around the world.
Click to expand...

Obama Response:
North Korea announced today that it conducted a third nuclear test. This is a highly provocative act that, following its December 12 ballistic missile launch, undermines regional stability, violates North Korea’s obligations under numerous United Nations Security Council resolutions, contravenes its commitments under the September 19, 2005 Joint Statement of the Six-Party Talks, and increases the risk of proliferation. North Korea’s nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs constitute a threat to U.S. national security and to international peace and security. The United States remains vigilant in the face of North Korean provocations and steadfast in our defense commitments to allies in the region.

These provocations do not make North Korea more secure. Far from achieving its stated goal of becoming a strong and prosperous nation, North Korea has instead increasingly isolated and impoverished its people through its ill-advised pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery.

The danger posed by North Korea’s threatening activities warrants further swift and credible action by the international community. The United States will also continue to take steps necessary to defend ourselves and our allies. We will strengthen close coordination with allies and partners and work with our Six-Party partners, the United Nations Security Council, and other UN member states to pursue firm action.
Click to expand...


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/12/us-korea-north-obama-idUSBRE91B0W520130212
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Shorter Obama: this sucks but we can't do shit due to China and the possibility of SK getting destroyed.

Shitty situation. Between this and the Iran news posted earlier,...depressing stuff. NK won't be touched but the longer Iran fucks around, the more likely Israel will fuck everything up.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Chichikov said:
I can see infighting, I don't see any of the big tea party stars leaving the party unless they get primaried.
The Tea Party can only really win races under the umbrella of the GOP, they don't have the money, organization or even public support in most places to win seats otherwise, some idiots might not understand it, but I'm sure people like the Pauls do.
Click to expand...

Meh, you're probably right. Especially since some of the Money backing the GOP has already put up some opposition with regards to their attempts to stay far to the right. I guess I really just want to watch the party implode on itself.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Hitokage said:
Why is Cheney getting press? Did he get good deal on a publicist?
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Why not? He is the most recent former vice-president and a person with policies very different than the current administration. Any time he wants to say anything there will be a reporter willing to report it. Easy news.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Chichikov said:
I can see infighting, I don't see any of the big tea party stars leaving the party unless they get primaried.
The Tea Party can only really win races under the umbrella of the GOP, they don't have the money, organization or even public support in most places to win seats otherwise, some idiots might not understand it, but I'm sure people like the Pauls do.
Click to expand...
If people like Foster Freiss, Sheldon Adelson and Trump throw their money, teaparty will get its funding.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Chichikov said:
I think all of it only works under the umbrella of the GOP, as a national party I can't image them winning anything.
Click to expand...

And it'll be even harder without an economic disaster to run against. 2010 was largely about the bad economy, and the tea party was in the right place at the right time. Now that things are more stable voters pay more attention to details, including the crazy shit these people say on a regular basis.
 
K

KingK

Member
GhaleonEB said:
My point is that it didn't matter what Obama's messaging was on jobs. The GOP was not going to pass it, or part if it, full stop. No amount of public pressure or even a lost election will dent it. Nothing. Just look at what's going on right now, and the new Congress has just begun.

I do think Obama's messaging on the jobs act was far better than it was with say, the original stimulus bill. (Which the Jobs Act closely resembled.) But Obama and Dems twisted themselves into knots and diluted their own message by engaging in the deficit hysteria. I wince every time Obama talks about jobs and cutting the deficit a few breaths apart. So he and Dems certainly could have had a better focus.

That said, while I think it did get through to the public, it doesn't matter. The GOP will not go along with any of Obama's job proposals. No messaging or public support etc. will change that. In part because the House GOP feels so entrenched due to redistricting that they can do pretty much what they want, knowing their majority is safe.
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You keep saying that the GOP will not go along with any jobs bill regardless, and I agree, but the solution isn't to just give up and stop talking about it. You need an effective message to convince a large majority of voters that it's a good idea, and then when the GOP still won't vote for it, you constantly attack them for blocking it and constantly remind people why your idea is a good one, and then get more seats in the next election.

I know gerrymandering has made it really hard for Dems to get a majority, but that doesn't mean you should just give up and accept that nothing can happen. You just need to convince even more voters that your ideas are right, and the other side is wrong.

And it's really hard to convince people that more stimulus is a good idea when you've already folded to the Republican's premise that cutting the deficit and spending will create jobs. I'm saying that Democrats should have been repeating ad nauseum that cutting spending will cut jobs, and they should have been constantly attacking Republicans for trying to turn us into Greece (via austerity measures). I think that could have been a winning argument and message considering all the facts behind it.

Instead, they just decided to agree with Republicans that deficit reduction needs to be our top priority. And while Obama may have won the messaging battle on the deficit (with the "balanced approach"), winning that doesn't get you anywhere on jobs when you've now got a majority of Americans who think cutting spending will lead to increased job growth!
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Will Obama address the problem he created tonight?

Commuting in the Bay Area has turned nasty -- and it can't all be blamed on too many solo drivers, out-of-sync traffic lights or an improving economy.

Thieves are increasingly at fault, tearing out valuable copper wiring that powers metering lights, traffic signals, lights on freeway signs and city streetlights.

Farmers have also been hit hard, as well as construction sites and even Little League fields. But it's drivers who are among the first to notice.

Ramp meters have been dark at Isabel Avenue to Interstate 580 since October, on I-280 at Avalon Drive on the Peninsula for a couple of months and at Almaden Expressway onto Highway 85 for two weeks.

A total of 59 meters have been vandalized in the Bay Area over the past year, and Caltrans has replaced the wiring at just 18. It can take three to four months to make repairs, which will likely be the case at Almaden. And it typically costs $35,000 to fix one meter.

"I cannot catch up with them," said Alan Chow, who oversees Caltrans' metering light system in the Bay Area. "They even stole the wire at a weight station in front of the CHP."
Click to expand...

http://www.contracostatimes.com/bre...it-traffic-gridlock-copper-thieves?source=rss
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
KingK said:
You keep saying that the GOP will not go along with any jobs bill regardless, and I agree, but the solution isn't to just give up and stop talking about it. You need an effective message to convince a large majority of voters that it's a good idea, and then when the GOP still won't vote for it, you constantly attack them for blocking it and constantly remind people why your idea is a good one, and then get more seats in the next election.
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I don't think we're on the same wavelenght at all here.

1) I never said that.

2) I never implied that.

3) I think Dems need to continue make the case to the public, and to connect better, which I have said.

I agree, so I'm not sure if you are arguing with me or not.

I know gerrymandering has made it really hard for Dems to get a majority, but that doesn't mean you should just give up and accept that nothing can happen. You just need to convince even more voters that your ideas are right, and the other side is wrong.
Click to expand...
Likewise....

And it's really hard to convince people that more stimulus is a good idea when you've already folded to the Republican's premise that cutting the deficit and spending will create jobs. I'm saying that Democrats should have been repeating ad nauseum that cutting spending will cut jobs, and they should have been constantly attacking Republicans for trying to turn us into Greece (via austerity measures). I think that could have been a winning argument and message considering all the facts behind it.
Click to expand...
Dems have been arguing this. They've also been muddying their own message by agreeing to cuts, so yeah. I agree they should drop the latter.

Instead, they just decided to agree with Republicans that deficit reduction needs to be our top priority. And while Obama may have won the messaging battle on the deficit (with the "balanced approach"), winning that doesn't get you anywhere on jobs when you've now got a majority of Americans who think cutting spending will lead to increased job growth!
Click to expand...

No argument there, it's been terrible for public discourse.
 
Guileless

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Pres. Obama passed a stimulus bill without a single Republican vote in 09 that did not have the predicted effect and was vulnerable to criticism as conventional pork moreso than well-designed short-term stimulus.

I am familiar with the "it would've been worse without it" argument, but that rarely convinces anyone that doesn't already agree with the premise.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
How big is the chance we're going to see something genuinely surprising? If it's just going to be things we already know, guns, immigration, debt then whatever man.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Rocket Scientist said:
How big is the chance we're going to see something genuinely surprising? If it's just going to be things we already know, guns, immigration, debt then whatever man.
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It's a State of the Union address; not E3. Obama is not Iwata. He's not supposed to use a speech to drop megatons.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
No, seriously guys, it takes me forever to find stuff using the search here. Whats the secret to a fast and successful neogaf search?

I know the google trick, which helps, but not always.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
When did this investment in copper to raise prices start? Prices of copper are still below what they were in 2011.

http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/copper.aspx?timeframe=5y

Additionally, they're what they were in 2006 too before they plumitted due to the recession.

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/copper/all/

I used to sell copper pipe. We had to moniter commodity prices in order to evaluate our inventories worth and current sell price to the end users. This stealing of copper isn't new either. People have been doing it for years.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
With them being so vocally against the VAWA and a significant vocal portion of their base being so vocal about hating immigrants, I want to sincerely thank this party for being so inept.

I really, really hope democrats don't stay home in 2014. With a more positive economy than in 2010 and no real controversial pieces of legislation (to most people) to rile everyone up with misinformation, we could at least gain some seats.

Rubio voted no on the Violence Against Women Act. If he manages to survive the primary in four years, that'll give the party such a great image if he's running against a woman!
 
T

Tim-E

Member
I love how they think that having someone speak Spanish will save them. People paid attention to their horrible policy stances in 2012 and that's why they lost. Their image on women's rights is absolutely dreadful and I cannot understand why their "moderate savior" would give the Democrats such easy ammunition. People will likely be quick to call a lot of things thrown at Hillary sexist if she were to run so anything going back to women's rights is going to hurt them.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Boehner: the president lacks 'guts' and 'courage'
Washington (CNN) – In personal and biting terms, House Speaker John Boehner argued that President Obama's failure to find agreement with Republicans is a result of his lack of "courage" and "guts" to do what it takes.

"To do the kind of heavy lifting that needs to be done, I don't think he's got the guts to go do it," Boehner told a group of television reporters and anchors in a breakfast ahead of the president's State of the Union address.

He even doubled down on that accusation, when pressed.

"He doesn't have the courage to take on the liberal side of his own party. I'm sorry but it's just clear as a bell to me," said Boehner.

Boehner repeatedly talked about the president's "liberal" agenda he laid out in his inaugural address, suggesting it is a signal that the president's focus for the next two years will not be reaching across the aisle, but helping Democrats retake control of the House.

"I think he'd love to have Nancy Pelosi as speaker and Harry Reid as majority leader for his last two years in office. Go back to the inaugural address. He knows that all of that liberal agenda he laid out, he knows none of that is going to happen as long as we have a majority in the House," said Boehner.
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Burn in hell, boehner. You not only lack balls but are a limp dick when it comes to keeping your teanuts in line.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Shorter Boehner (hahhar): "Obama lacks the courage to agree to make cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, which Republicans refuse to propose."
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
In related news, anyone notice the really blatant shift in messaging by framing this as "the president's sequester?"

YOU ALL VOTED FOR IT, YOU FUCKS.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Tim-E said:
I love how they think that having someone speak Spanish will save them. People paid attention to their horrible policy stances in 2012 and that's why they lost. Their image on women's rights is absolutely dreadful and I cannot understand why their "moderate savior" would give the Democrats such easy ammunition. People will likely be quick to call a lot of things thrown at Hillary sexist if she were to run so anything going back to women's rights is going to hurt them.
Click to expand...

Media has got to build up that narrative. And speculation on what might be in 2016 is cheaper and easier than actual investigative reporting.

GhaleonEB said:
Shorter Boehner (hahhar): "Obama lacks the courage to agree to make cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, which Republicans refuse to propose."
Click to expand...

Bingo. Who can really believe that Boehner and the repubs are being the more bipartisan of the two parties? Only people who haven't been paying attention.
 
K

kehs

Banned
Mike M said:
In related news, anyone notice the really blatant shift in messaging by framing this as "the president's sequester?"

YOU ALL VOTED FOR IT, YOU FUCKS.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the white house totally mentioned it once.

And we all know Obama is a dictator who can't lead and mind controls the congress into creating things.

I hope they find a way to flip it like they did Obamacare.

"Yea it's my sequester, as President when Congress fails to act, someone has to act."

*brushes dirt off his shoulders*
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
Mike M said:
In related news, anyone notice the really blatant shift in messaging by framing this as "the president's sequester?"

YOU ALL VOTED FOR IT, YOU FUCKS.
Click to expand...
They were pulling that shit back in the days leading up to the 2012 election, too, so it doesn't surprise me that they're sticking with it.

The sad thing is, somebody might actually be fooled by this obvious fact distortion.
 
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