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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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T

TacticalFox88

Banned
You may have missed it, but over the weekend congressional Republicans admitted that they are terrified that any Social Security cuts will lead to their defeat.

If you have been paying attention to the politics of Obama’s chained CPI offer, you may have noticed that Republicans have been running away like their hair’s on fire away from his proposal.

The reason why is that Republicans are afraid that the president is setting them up. Roll Call reported, “The debate Walden’s remarks has set off inside the GOP shows many Republicans harbor deep-seated fears about publicly supporting the entitlement cuts they supposedly back and have demanded Obama and other Democrats embrace since taking control of the House in 2011…Many GOP operatives fear Obama’s embrace of chained consumer price index, a mechanism to slow the growth of Social Security benefits over time, is a trap — a means of getting Republicans to support the policy on the record only to see Democrats savage them for it down the line.”

The Republican strategists who suspect this are partially correct. President Obama is using Chained CPI to set up a win/win/win situation for Democrats. Republicans have to choose between raising taxes in order to get the Chained CPI, arguing for Chained CPI without the tax increase, or rejecting Chained CPI. If Republicans express any desire to cut Social Security, Democrats will savage them for it during next year’s election. If Republicans agree to raise taxes at all, the base of their party will erupt in rage. If Republicans split and some of them reject Chained CPI, it will never become law. (Chained CPI probably won’t become law anyway, because Harry Reid and many Senate Democrats have promised to oppose any changes to Social Security.)



While the activists on the left continue to completely ignore the political realities unfolding before them, it is looking more and more like Obama’s Chained CPI offer was designed to call the Republican bluff on Social Security.

The truth is that outside of the right wing ideologues, many Republicans see real political danger in messing with Social Security.

Here’s the deal in plain English. Republicans will get nothing on Social Security, unless they agree to raise taxes. Since they will never raise taxes, Chained CPI is pretty much DOA.

Democrats have constructed an elaborate political trap for Republicans. If they make the mistake of going on record as supporting Social Security cuts, President Obama and his party will snap it closed.



President Obama called their bluff, and many Republicans are being forced to admit that they are scared of the political fallout that would come if they cut Social Security.
Click to expand...
Looks like there more to this eleven dimensional chess than we think
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
Looks like there more to this eleven dimensional chess than we think
Click to expand...

I don't think that's really what's going on but I do think there is something to be said of Obama possibly wanting to show that cuts to the safety net can't happen. Put them on the table then show nobody will vote for them.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
wow I'm seeing GAF ads about pushing senator landrieu for background checks. Never seen liberal ads like that.

MSNBC was harping on this last week: The NRA now has rivals. This legislation isn't that big but its still the first national gun control law in like 20 years, you have to start somewhere. Pushing people on the state level is really where this stuff if going to gain traction. Guns don't respect borders but it still makes it harder.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
B-Dubs said:
If this was actually Obama's plan, and it works, I'll be impressed.
Click to expand...

It isn't. It also doesn't make any sense. If being on record supporting chained CPI is damaging, then he is damaging the Democratic party, since he is putting it on record as supporting chained CPI. The reality is that Obama truly believes that the US government's problem is that it does not get enough tax revenue, i.e., he does not understand the monetary system. That's fine, few do. But that is what he sees as the chief problem. He is therefore earnest in his desire to raise more tax revenue. His offer of chained CPI is likewise earnest. He genuinely (albeit stupidly) believes it worthwhile to make that trade to solve what he genuinely (albeit stupidly) believes is the government's "revenue problem."
 
F

fallagin

Member
empty vessel said:
It isn't. It also doesn't make any sense. If being on record supporting chained CPI is damaging, then he is damaging the Democratic party, since he is putting it on record as supporting chained CPI. The reality is that Obama truly believes that the US government's problem is that it does not get enough tax revenue, i.e., he does not understand the monetary system. That's fine, few do. But that is what he sees as the chief problem. He is therefore earnest in his desire to raise more tax revenue. His offer of chained CPI is likewise earnest. He genuinely (albeit stupidly) believes it worthwhile to make that trade to solve what he genuinely (albeit stupidly) believes is the government's "revenue problem."
Click to expand...

Probably, but it can maybe also have the effect of GOP hurting their goals on entitlement cuts. They are against everything Obama is for, so if they attack chained cpi then.. I dunno at least something of value could potentially come from this. Maybe. But obviously to be good at 11th dimensional chess you need to be good at predicting what the enemy will do, something Obama does not have a very good track record on.

So we shall see just what the heck is going to happen here.
 
D

defel

Member
Im not really closely following the tone of the immigration debate in the USA at the moment but can anyone tell me whether someone like me (educated Brit, top Undergraduate degree and Masters degree from a top 3 UK university) is likely to have an easier time gaining entry to the USA once you are on the other side of the immigration debate? The immigration system unfortunately always seem to work against the type of people the USA wants (its the same in the UK :/ ) I have a few friends who would love to work in the States but are going to Canada or Australia instead.
 
F

fallagin

Member
defel said:
Im not really closely following the tone of the immigration debate in the USA at the moment but can anyone tell me whether someone like me (educated Brit, top Undergraduate degree and Masters degree from a top 3 UK university) is likely to have an easier time gaining entry to the USA once you are on the other side of the immigration debate? The immigration system unfortunately always seem to work against the type of people the USA wants (its the same in the UK :/ ) I have a few friends who would love to work in the States but are going to Canada or Australia instead.
Click to expand...

Nobody knows exactly at the moment, but I would suspect things will become better for people with good degrees. There is alot of talk about that with the GOP, and they are kind of the deciders right now.
 
T

thcsquad

Member
empty vessel said:
It isn't. It also doesn't make any sense. If being on record supporting chained CPI is damaging, then he is damaging the Democratic party, since he is putting it on record as supporting chained CPI. The reality is that Obama truly believes that the US government's problem is that it does not get enough tax revenue, i.e., he does not understand the monetary system. That's fine, few do. But that is what he sees as the chief problem. He is therefore earnest in his desire to raise more tax revenue. His offer of chained CPI is likewise earnest. He genuinely (albeit stupidly) believes it worthwhile to make that trade to solve what he genuinely (albeit stupidly) believes is the government's "revenue problem."
Click to expand...

I think you're oversimplifying the politics part of it. He can come out in support of it (even just as extending an olvie branch to the Republicans), but that doesn't mean Congressional Democrats have to, and they're the ones up for reelection. Individual votes matter, because these are individual races. If some particular Democratic congressman doesn't vote for chained CPI, there isn't much his opponent can do to smear him about it in the campaign. I know that the Republicans can try and tie each Democrat to Obama in campaign ads, but individual voting records are more important in congressional campaigns than you're giving them credit for
 
S

speculawyer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
President Obama called their bluff, and many Republicans are being forced to admit that they are scared of the political fallout that would come if they cut Social Security.
Click to expand...
Looks like there more to this eleven dimensional chess than we think
Click to expand...

Well, the GOP has been losing so much political support lately. They lost black voters back with the Civil rights act, they've lost academics with a religious fundamentalism, they've lost latino voters with immigration, they lost Muslim voters with Muslim bashing, the gay-hating is completely back-firing on them now, etc.

All they've got left are the 1%, religious zealots, tax-haters, gun-nuts, and old people. And while bashing social security & medicare works well with their tax-haters and 1%, it totally alienates the old people. The GOP doesn't really have the balls to cut that stuff . . . in fact they EXPANDED that stuff with Medicare Part D.

So yeah, he called their bluff. And they are waffling. An inconsistent response, infighting, and no plan of how to proceed. The GOP is caught with rhetoric that sounds good on the face but blows up when you try to implement it. "Cut spending" they say non-stop. We all know where all the big money is in government . . . social security, medicare, and defense . . . old people, old people, and their defense contractor pals.

So call their bluff. Their supporters need to realize that foreign aid and welfare are actually pretty small and cutting them is not going to balance the budget.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
B-Dubs said:
It's almost as if people have forgotten all of the toys the world's armies have gotten since WWI. The argument is even dumber in the modern era, as if a couple hundred guys with rifles will be able to stand up to a modern military.
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Apparently you have never seen the documentary Red Dawn.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Why the fuck is Michelle Bachman on the House Intelligence Committee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rep-mich...an-with-bizarre-questions-during-cia-hearing/

The comments and behavior are bizarre until you realize she's basically just showing off that she is in possession of classified intel. I noticed she would constantly humble brag about being privy to such intel during the GOP debates, and I'd imagine this is just her signaling to her constituents that she's an Important Person. What a fuck up.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Posted a thread in OT, might be of interest to you guys

5HI8RHG.jpg


The least contentious duty of the welfare state is securing equal opportunities, by "ensuring that rich and poor children have the same chances to get ahead". By a 78% to 14% majority, Britons agree that this "should be the government's job", a crushing majority closely mirrored in figures of 77%-17% in France and 87%-8% in Germany.

Americans, too, endorse this conception, but more narrowly – by 50% against 36% who insist that even this goal should not be the government's job. The detailed data reveals that state-sceptic Republicans reject even this notion out of hand – by 68% to 22%.
Click to expand...

Progressive Americans, by contrast, will be heartened to learn that the legacy of Franklin Roosevelt is not dead – but shocked by the underlying party divide. Whereas Democrats split 75% to 8% in favour of using tax-financed services to smooth the recession's rough edges, Republicans are heavily against, by 59% to 24%.
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The American right has seriously gone off the deepend.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
Why the fuck is Michelle Bachman on the House Intelligence Committee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rep-mich...an-with-bizarre-questions-during-cia-hearing/

The comments and behavior are bizarre until you realize she's basically just showing off that she is in possession of classified intel. I noticed she would constantly humble brag about being privy to such intel during the GOP debates, and I'd imagine this is just her signaling to her constituents that she's an Important Person. What a fuck up.
Click to expand...
Let's get the obvious oxymoron out of the way first and point out that Michele Bachmann and intelligence should not be in the same sentence, unless that sentence is some variation of "Michele Bachmann lacks intelligence"
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
speculawyer said:
Well, the GOP has been losing so much political support lately. They lost black voters back with the Civil rights act, they've lost academics with a religious fundamentalism, they've lost latino voters with immigration, they lost Muslim voters with Muslim bashing, the gay-hating is completely back-firing on them now, etc.

All they've got left are the 1%, religious zealots, tax-haters, gun-nuts, and old people. And while bashing social security & medicare works well with their tax-haters and 1%, it totally alienates the old people. The GOP doesn't really have the balls to cut that stuff . . . in fact they EXPANDED that stuff with Medicare Part D.

So yeah, he called their bluff. And they are waffling. An inconsistent response, infighting, and no plan of how to proceed. The GOP is caught with rhetoric that sounds good on the face but blows up when you try to implement it. "Cut spending" they say non-stop. We all know where all the big money is in government . . . social security, medicare, and defense . . . old people, old people, and their defense contractor pals.

So call their bluff. Their supporters need to realize that foreign aid and welfare are actually pretty small and cutting them is not going to balance the budget.
Click to expand...

The GOP lost the Black vote in the 1930s.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PhoenixPause said:
Why the fuck is Michelle Bachman on the House Intelligence Committee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rep-mich...an-with-bizarre-questions-during-cia-hearing/

The comments and behavior are bizarre until you realize she's basically just showing off that she is in possession of classified intel. I noticed she would constantly humble brag about being privy to such intel during the GOP debates, and I'd imagine this is just her signaling to her constituents that she's an Important Person. What a fuck up.
Click to expand...

I thought Brennan was confirmed already?

edit: LOL at the reactions to the final question.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Why the fuck is Michelle Bachman on the House Intelligence Committee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rep-mich...an-with-bizarre-questions-during-cia-hearing/

The comments and behavior are bizarre until you realize she's basically just showing off that she is in possession of classified intel. I noticed she would constantly humble brag about being privy to such intel during the GOP debates, and I'd imagine this is just her signaling to her constituents that she's an Important Person. What a fuck up.
Click to expand...
The scary thing is that she's a high-profile GOPer that raises a lot of money. It is not like she is some obscure crazy fringe that people ignore. Well, she is crazy fringe but very popular crazy fringe. I bet the establishment GOPer types like Boehner wish she would go away.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
speculawyer said:
The scary thing is that she's a high-profile GOPer that raises a lot of money. It is not like she is some obscure crazy fringe that people ignore. Well, she is crazy fringe but very popular crazy fringe. I bet the establishment GOPer types like Boehner wish she would go away.
Click to expand...
Yeah, well maybe they'll get their wish next year.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Oblivion said:
Any thoughts on this article?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-mah...-adding-himself-to-the-list-of-useful-idiots/

I'm not really well versed in matters related to Cuba.
Click to expand...

Read this earlier today. Does nothing to dispute his many points besides saying cubans don't like castro.

Doesn't refute the point that the embargo hasn't worked and we trade with much worse. Just talks about how people don't like castro and he's a dick who treats his people like crap (which bill wasn't contesting)

History shows that when we trade and when their is less antagonism towards a country they tend to liberalize (See: China, Vietnam) And we never even cut off relations with the USSR at the hight of the cold war as far as I'm aware of.

Bill is right Cuban policy is held hostage by a few cubans in florida for no logical reason (and cuba has begun to liberalize to a small extent). The US government won't drop the sanctions until the castros die.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
APKmetsfan said:
Read this earlier today. Does nothing to dispute his many points besides saying cubans don't like castro.

Doesn't refute the point that the embargo hasn't worked and we trade with much worse. Just talks about how people don't like castro and he's a dick who treats his people like crap (which bill wasn't contesting)

History shows that when we trade and when their is less antagonism towards a country they tend to liberalize (See: China, Vietnam) And we never even cut off relations with the USSR at the hight of the cold war as far as I'm aware of.

Bill is right Cuban policy is held hostage by a few cubans in florida for no logical reason (and cuba has begun to liberalize to a small extent). The US government won't drop the sanctions until the castros die.
Click to expand...

I did like this line though:

Maher also employed the second-most popular sneer used by embargo-opponents: ‘But we trade with other evil regimes!,’ citing our trade with Saudi Arabia. Yes, Bill, we do business with Saudi Arabia … and with China, too! That’s because we need them, whether for goods or oil without which the American economy — and the American consumer — would face a crisis.
Click to expand...

So it's okay to deal with evil, despotic regimes as long as you benefit from them.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Oblivion said:
Any thoughts on this article?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-mah...-adding-himself-to-the-list-of-useful-idiots/

I'm not really well versed in matters related to Cuba.
Click to expand...

Wow what a dumbass.

I really think people don't understand what modern Cuba is like. Its essentially like the surrounding Caribbean nations (development wise) but with an African dictator-like government with good social programs and healthcare (compared to surrounding nations). This isn't to say that Castro has done any good to Cuba, far from it. Cuba use to be to the Caribbean in the 1950s as to what Japan was to East Asia in the 1970s. The nation would be in far better shape if Castro never came into power, but lets not pretend that he is essentially Kim Jong Un.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
zero shift said:
Wow what a dumbass.

I really think people don't understand what modern Cuba is like. Its essentially like the surrounding Caribbean nations (development wise) but with an African dictator-like government with good social programs and healthcare (compared to surrounding nations). This isn't to say that Castro has done any good to Cuba, far from it. Cuba use to be to the Caribbean in the 1950s as to what Japan was to East Asia in the 1970s. The nation would be in far better shape if Castro never came into power, but lets not pretend that he is essentially Kim Jong Un.
Click to expand...

You keep stating this as a fact but there is no evidence it is true. It does not at all strike me as true that the average Cuban would be better off if Cuban independence had not occurred.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Why the fuck is Michelle Bachman on the House Intelligence Committee
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rep-mich...an-with-bizarre-questions-during-cia-hearing/

The comments and behavior are bizarre until you realize she's basically just showing off that she is in possession of classified intel. I noticed she would constantly humble brag about being privy to such intel during the GOP debates, and I'd imagine this is just her signaling to her constituents that she's an Important Person. What a fuck up.
Click to expand...
I don't think she's showing off. I think she is just aggressively stupid. The fact that Boehner would give her the intelligence committee chair shows just how much of a cunt he is. Put her on some agricultural committee instead of the intelligence, and give the intelligence committee to someone who actually knows what the borders of north Africa look like.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Link said:
Hmm, someone needs to ask if the slaves should have had guns to fight tyranny.

Sure, it makes no sense, but any answer someone gives should be quite amusing.
Click to expand...

"I think Martin Luther King, Jr. would agree with me if he were alive today that if African Americans had been given the right to keep and bear arms from day one of the country’s founding, perhaps slavery might not have been a chapter in our history."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoR9t-TmDus
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
RustyNails said:
I don't think she's showing off. I think she is just aggressively stupid. The fact that Boehner would give her the intelligence committee chair shows just how much of a cunt he is. Put her on some agricultural committee instead of the intelligence, and give the intelligence committee to someone who actually knows what the borders of north Africa look like.
Click to expand...
She certainly doesn't do any kind of research or fact checking before asking questions or making comments. She can't seem to help herself either. And why should she? She gets attention and the spotlight, and it's not like there's ever any repercussions for it. She literally ran away from CNN last time.

Dan said:
"I think Martin Luther King, Jr. would agree with me if he were alive today that if African Americans had been given the right to keep and bear arms from day one of the country’s founding, perhaps slavery might not have been a chapter in our history."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoR9t-TmDus
Click to expand...
Well, there you go.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Dan said:
"I think Martin Luther King, Jr. would agree with me if he were alive today that if African Americans had been given the right to keep and bear arms from day one of the country’s founding, perhaps slavery might not have been a chapter in our history."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoR9t-TmDus
Click to expand...
Haha. No, MLK would not agree with that. Malcolm X and the Black Panthers might, which is why Reagan took their guns away in California. Second amendment rights indeed.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
For those of you who think Reid is worse than Obama:

Mitch McConnell still hasn’t gotten over December’s traumatic fiscal cliff showdown.

The Senate minority leader has signaled privately that he has no interest in sitting in the same room as Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to discuss a possible “grand bargain” on budget and tax issues, Senate insiders tell POLITICO.

McConnell is fine with talking to Obama — just talking at this point — but he doesn’t want Reid there when it happens.
Click to expand...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...with-Obama-but-only-if-Reid-isn-t-in-the-room
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
Fuck, I really don't want to jump to conclusions, but a boming in Boston on tax-day brings some connections to mind about the possible motivations that are incredibly hard to shake : (
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Mike M said:
Fuck, I really don't want to jump to conclusions, but a boming in Boston on tax-day brings some connections to mind about the possible motivations that are incredibly hard to shake : (
Click to expand...

I doubt it's related to tax day. I think it's more related to "lot of people gathered in one spot"


But my understanding is fuckwit terrorists in caves in Afghanistan wouldn't have known about a marathon event in Boston. I am ruling them out.

Domestic terrorism is what happened, where lone wolf acted out. Probably in retaliation to drone strikes. But that's just my guess.
 
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